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Athens · Dec 4, 2005, 07:06 AM

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/AUTOS/12...eed/index.html

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - Canadian auto regulators are testing a system that would enforce speed limits by making it harder to push down the car's gas pedal once the speed limit is passed, according to a newspaper report.

The system being tested by Transport Canada, the Canadian equivalent of the U.S. Department of Transportation, uses a global positioning satellite device installed in the car to monitor the car's speed and position. If the car begins to significantly exceed the speed limit for the road on which it's travelling the system responds by making it harder to depress the gas pedal, according to a story posted on the Toronto Globe and Mail's Website.

The pilot test, using 10 cars driven by volunteers, is believed to be the first in North America, although similar systems have been tested in several European countries, according to the newspaper.

The agency is also testing another system that warns drivers with a voice alarm and a light whenever they start to speed, the newspaper said. Those systems are already on sale, according to the report. The company that makes the alarm device, the Otto Driving Companion, has already sold 400 of the units in Winnipeg alone, the newspaper said.

The system could be abused for speeding tickets, which for me would be 10 a day.

ghporter · Dec 4, 2005, 10:06 AM

Bad idea, badly implemented. There is no way for anyone outside the car at a particular momment in time to know whether or not the speed the car is traveling at that moment is or is not appropriate. Rushing a child to a hospital, swerving through traffic to avoid a dangerously reckless driver, recognizing that the posted speed has been changed before the "system" is updated are all valid reasons for exceeding the posted speed limit.

I don't have any problem with a "black box" in my car recording what I do-I can later defend my actions in the context of what was happening on the road at the time. Having someone with no contact with the situation (either in real time or in an abstract sense) decide I shouldn't go faster than the posted speed is simply unacceptable.

Athens · Dec 4, 2005, 10:20 AM

the system dosent prevent you from speeding, its supose to provide feed back so you realize your speeding, the pedal gets more harder to push in, not impossible. But its still a system that could allow tracking in real time which I dont like.

ghporter · Dec 4, 2005, 10:47 AM

But what happens WHEN one of these things fails and interferes with operation of the accelerator? "Feedback" is something that shouldn't have ANY possibility of endangering the operator or passengers, so is there a guarantee that this thing CAN'T fail in such a way as to block or jam the accelerator? I bet not. While the idea of physical feedback on the foot that's doing the pedal pushing is a good one, it's dangerous. What's wrong with a chime, a flashing light, or even vibrating the pedal, rather than changing its resistance?

Honestly, having something that lets the driver know he's going faster than the locally posted speed is a Good Thing. But not in a way that can impact safe operation of the vehicle. I've spent a LONG time fixing hardware that's supposed to do important jobs; it NEVER fails the way the designer expects it to, if the designer even considered it might fail at all.

Athens · Dec 4, 2005, 10:49 AM

guess it would be a bad idea to mention my clutch cable is currently held together with normal tape

Doofy · Dec 4, 2005, 11:04 AM

Yep, this is a completely ridiculous idea, for the reasons that Glenn mentions.

Not to mention that there'll be a huge black market for disabling the things.

tooki · Dec 4, 2005, 01:25 PM

Everything ghporter said.

I mean, look at how simple antilock brakes failed early on. Anyone remember the Audi 5000 fiasco about 15-20 years ago, where the antilock computer had a software bug, and would occasionally release the brakes on a car that was at a dead stop, killing a couple of people.

Now imagine a computer even just partly controlling the accelerator. What if it goofed and decided the correct speed limit was 5mph? What if it messed up and applied too much resistance?

Never mind that way too many drivers are afraid of the accelerator, to the point of being hazardous to other drivers. Institutionalizing this would be a terrific safety hazard.

tooki

Salty · Dec 4, 2005, 01:42 PM

Just do away with speed limits... and just take away the licenses of people who are bad drivers... like my sister.

ghporter · Dec 4, 2005, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Just do away with speed limits... and just take away the licenses of people who are bad drivers... like my sister.

I'm aware of a number of repeat offenders who should be taken out and shot...at the curbside so the public will know they're no longer in danger from THIS particular moron.

In all seriousness, I've seen far more serious issues than highway speeding, and these issues are getting worse. How do you behave when you come up to a Stop sigh? I come to a complete stop and look in all directions before I move again, but many people I see every day consider these signs "advisory" in nature and just slow down a bit before they procede. It's bad enough in San Antonio that there are police stationed at some school zones to remind people half an hour before the zone's speed limit takes effect that this is a school zone. Half an hour before school lets out?!?! That's because these particular zones are renound for having people zoom through them, in spite of automatic flashing lights and numerous signs.

Forget speeders for now, Transport Canada! Work on MAKING people stop at stop signs!

Athens · Dec 4, 2005, 08:58 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Just do away with speed limits... and just take away the licenses of people who are bad drivers... like my sister.

I agree, the people that cause accidents are usually the ones driving aggressive, like weaving in and out of traffic, tail gating and running reds. Non aggressive drivers who speed (me) are far less dangerous then even aggressive drivers who are at the speed limit. The difference is speed kills when something happens. I tend to drive the speed of what the area, and car supports which is usually 70 to 80 on most streets and 120ish on the freeway so about 20 above the limits. And most other drivers drive those speeds too. I think the speed limits are just stupidly low in most places.

tooki · Dec 4, 2005, 09:09 PM

Germany has understood since the beginning that speed isn't the problem, but rather lousy driving is. I really like Germany's autobahn laws, where there's no general speed limit, but bad driving (like lane weaving and tailgating) are severely punished with fines that are relative to the offender's income, so that it hurts the pocketbook no matter how rich you are.

tooki

Athens · Dec 4, 2005, 09:21 PM

ya like in Alberta between Jasper and Edmonton I was going 130 and cars where passing me that had to be going 180, perfect straight roads with a long clear field of vision, there is no reason for limits there except when its icy. I think limits are stupid. I think it was you that was telling me that in the US some states had no choice but to put speed limits on roads because of the Feds. Speed limits should be a local matter in my opinion.

Salty · Dec 5, 2005, 12:21 AM

I am of two minds. The second being, that most drives who want the limits raised all the times think they're more responsible than they actually are. That said most days I'd love to go at least a good 25km over what the posted limits are on several streets.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 5, 2005, 12:33 AM

Originally Posted by Salty

Just do away with speed limits... and just take away the licenses of people who are bad drivers... like my sister.

Why? So more people can be killed and enjoy that afterlife with jESUS?

production_coordinator · Dec 5, 2005, 12:40 AM

I think the current speed limits work just fine... No need to track us from space IMHO.

Also, speed limits are good... driving a little slower is not only safer, it conserves fuel.

production_coordinator · Dec 5, 2005, 12:42 AM

Originally Posted by tooki

Germany has understood since the beginning that speed isn't the problem, but rather lousy driving is. I really like Germany's autobahn laws, where there's no general speed limit, but bad driving (like lane weaving and tailgating) are severely punished with fines that are relative to the offender's income, so that it hurts the pocketbook no matter how rich you are.

tooki

Mr. Gates, your parking ticket will be $56,385,221... we only accept cash or certified checks.

Salty · Dec 5, 2005, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

Mr. Gates, your parking ticket will be $56,385,221... we only accept cash or certified checks.

Hmmm we need Gates to drive recklessly on the autobahn!

Railroader · Dec 5, 2005, 12:45 AM

116,000 EUROS is the current highest speeding ticket fine record.

SuvsareRetarded · Dec 5, 2005, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by Salty

Hmmm we need Gates to drive recklessly on the autobahn!

Isn't wishing ill will on people bad, according to jESUS?

Athens · Dec 5, 2005, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Why? So more people can be killed and enjoy that afterlife with jESUS?

Speed limits dont stop stupid drivers from causing accedents.

Athens · Dec 5, 2005, 02:49 AM

Originally Posted by SuvsareRetarded

Isn't wishing ill will on people bad, according to jESUS?

And that has what do to with this thread?

ghporter · Dec 5, 2005, 07:48 AM

Ignoring the attempt to derail the thread, I'd like to add to the "accidents aren't caused by speed itself" flow. Recently a college student here (from my school, by the way) killed a mother and her child by basically running them over near an intersection on a surface street. He wasn't going significantly over the limit, but he WAS under the influence. ANYTHING that keeps a person from attending to driving is much more of a threat to that person and those around him than his speed relative to a posted limit, and alcohol is a major contributor to accidents of all kinds.

However, I'm not willing to cede posted limits; people who just aren't "into driving" need them to manage their driving safely, and idiots who game the speed limit system ("I can get away with 5MPH over the limit here...") are at least warned that everyone else will be going a different speed. Add to that the fact that North American roads aren't built like the autobahn, which is probably the best-built, best-maintained system of roads ever, and you should see that "intelligently set" speed limits (higher on the roads like what Athens described in Alberta, lower on twisty and irregular ones) are better than none at all for North Americans.

Goldfinger · Dec 5, 2005, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

the autobahn, which is probably the best-built, best-maintained system of roads ever

Absolutely not. A lot of autobahns are really crappy and some parts dangerous. The BEST, no discussion possible, highways are the French highways. But speeding in France these days, sadly, is a big no no. Soooo much speed cameras and highway police checking speeds.

I'm someone who completely agrees with speed limits withing dense traffic areas like cities but I absolutely hate speed limits on highways or empty roads out of villages/cities. Seriously, 120km/h is really slow on the highway. I always go 140km/h (above that it start's to get too expensive for a student like me).

It's all about adapting your speed to the situation. But most people are incapable of this and I don't think there is any effective way to teach people this.