[freudling]

Still a bit rough, but done:

http://pbreadme.nexuswebs.net/index.html

[CharlesS]

Regarding the section about Duo's:

Duo's what?

[freudling]

Not sure what you mean.

[CharlesS]

Well, since Duo's is clearly a possessive adjective, it doesn't make much sense without the noun it is modifying.

IOW, lose the apostrophe.

[Mastrap]

Correct. Duos is the plural of Duo. Duo's is the possessive, as in 'The Duo's screen isn't closing anymore'.

This and 'loose' when people mean 'lose' are probably the most common spelling errors around.

[nredman]

are you going to do ibooks too? or an imac page?

i like to check out apple-history.com once and awhile

[Eriamjh]

Loose... I mean, LOSE the iPix logo on the Pismo and other pages.

Plus, Pismos shipped with either 6 or 10GB HDs for the 400MHz, or 12 or 20GB HDs for the 500 (BTOs excepted).

There is (or was ) a 550MHz G4 upgrade ffered, too.

[starman]

Why make a page about Powerbooks when there's already a page for the entire line?

http://www.apple-history.com/

[scaught]

mactracker is a really good app, too.

[tooki]

The Pismo most decidedly does not get "extremely hot". Far from it -- my Pismo's fan has come on a single time in its entire life, and that's when it was running at full CPU, laying on a fluffy comforter, in the summer heat with no AC. The Pismo gets a tad warm. This AlBook routinely gets so hot you can't touch it.

Also, listing a custom-modified Pismo simply as "rare" indicates that Apple made a few of them. Apple made NO such machines -- it was modified by the owner after purchase. I'd leave such things out.

And yeah, "menus" isn't written with an apostrophe, either. Neither is "conundrums", nor "HDs".

Possessive (belonging to) = use apostrophe s
Plural = s with no apostrophe

A single apostrophe can't be used to form a plural (because apostrophes are never used to form a plural, with a few rare exceptions you can soundly ignore). So the plural of "OS" is "OSes", not " OS' "

"i.e." means "that is to say" (=specific)
"e.g." means "for example" (=non-specific)

Also, on the front page, in the boxes for each series, I'd put each model on its own line. The inline links style is hard to use, and the small-caps style you chose for links makes them very hard to read. Overall, in fact, serif fonts are terrible for on-screen reading. Consider switching to a screen-optimized sans-serif font like Lucida Grande, Verdana, Tahoma, Geneva, Charcoal or Chicago.

Too many different font/size/color/style combinations. Pare it down. (For example, the sentence "The 2300c is a PowerBook Readme DUO Series Buyers Guide Best choice." uses five different text styles in a single sentence! It gives it that "14 year old with a MySpace page" look, or the ransom note décor.)

Also, you should probably shy away from saying "this is the best model of this series". The PB190, for example, isn't really a member of that line, other than by name: it's just the 68K version of the PB 5300, the most awful PB model ever released. The 190 was underpowered at the time of release. The true 100 series, such as the 180c, were beautifully designed tanks.

And saying that the 165c is more desirable than a 180c?!? You DO realize that the 165c has a horrible passive matrix display, while the 180c has active matrix. And listing the 180's grayscale (not B&W) active matrix screen as "bad"? You know those screens were absolutely wonderful to work on.

And if you must have rankings, why aren't the model names in it linked?

Batteries are interchangeable between versions of the same model. So yes, any 17" AlBook can use any other 17" AlBook battery, for example.

The Kanga's real name wasn't "PowerBook 3500c", it was "PowerBook G3" (the word "series" was later used to differentiate the Wallstreet).

A PowerBook 550c needing 2:1 interleaving? Yeah, sure. The Mac Plus needed that. By the time Mac SE (that's 1987) was released, the onboard SCSI was fast enough to allow 1:1 interleaving, and we've never gone back.

Apple's name is Apple Computer, not Apple Computers.

Use proper capitalization. 'imac' isn't right, for example.

The PowerBook 2400c isn't a Duo. It's small, but it is not a Duo. What makes a Duo a Duo is the ability to dock into a Duo Dock, and the 2400c doesn't do that.

I notice that you duplicate a lot of information on different pages. I understand the idea of making each page self-contained, but it would make for far easier reading if you kept the non-unique content on separate pages and then just linked to it.

So yeah, overall, you have serious proofreading to do, and a lot of factual errors (the above were just a random sampling), and some visual formatting to fix. (Sorry, you asked for comments! I don't hate you, I swear!)


tooki

[freudling]

Originally Posted by tooki

The Pismo most decidedly does not get "extremely hot". Far from it -- my Pismo's fan has come on a single time in its entire life, and that's when it was running at full CPU, laying on a fluffy comforter, in the summer heat with no AC. The Pismo gets a tad warm. This AlBook routinely gets so hot you can't touch it.

The Pismo DOES get hot. YOUR Pismo may not get hot to you.

Also, listing a custom-modified Pismo simply as "rare" indicates that Apple made a few of them. Apple made NO such machines -- it was modified by the owner after purchase. I'd leave such things out.

Sorry, since you quite certainly do not know what research went into this, this IS an actual PISMO shipped from Apple to a customer. They put it up on the net to share with others. That person can be accused of lying, but I am not doing that.

And yeah, "menus" isn't written with an apostrophe, either. Neither is "conundrums", nor "HDs".

Possessive (belonging to) = use apostrophe s
Plural = s with no apostrophe

A single apostrophe can't be used to form a plural (because apostrophes are never used to form a plural, with a few rare exceptions you can soundly ignore). So the plural of "OS" is "OSes", not " OS' "

"i.e." means "that is to say" (=specific)
"e.g." means "for example" (=non-specific)

Also, on the front page, in the boxes for each series, I'd put each model on its own line. The inline links style is hard to use, and the small-caps style you chose for links makes them very hard to read. Overall, in fact, serif fonts are terrible for on-screen reading. Consider switching to a screen-optimized sans-serif font like Lucida Grande, Verdana, Tahoma, Geneva, Charcoal or Chicago.

I disagree re fonts.

Too many different font/size/color/style combinations. Pare it down. (For example, the sentence "The 2300c is a PowerBook Readme DUO Series Buyers Guide Best choice." uses five different text styles in a single sentence! It gives it that "14 year old with a MySpace page" look, or the ransom note décor.)

I agree. Like I said, "rough."

Also, you should probably shy away from saying "this is the best model of this series". The PB190, for example, isn't really a member of that line, other than by name: it's just the 68K version of the PB 5300, the most awful PB model ever released. The 190 was underpowered at the time of release. The true 100 series, such as the 180c, were beautifully designed tanks.

Probably? Pick a position. No, I will not shy away from saying that. Those statements are a result of analyzing the stats and experiencing the machines. I stand by my original comments. The 5300 was certainly not the worst PowerBook ever made. Like I state on my site, if it has gone through the refurbishment process, it is an excellent, reliable machine. Apple did extend the warranty on it many times greater than the original 1 year factory warranty. It is a very able performer with OS 8.x with a nice, compact design and an array of ports. Crappy PowerBooks are: the TiBook 400 Mhz G4, the Lombard (OS X upgrading horrid) and the 3400c a tank of a thing. As well, the first Apple portable was a piece of trash.

And saying that the 165c is more desirable than a 180c?!? You DO realize that the 165c has a horrible passive matrix display, while the 180c has active matrix. And listing the 180's grayscale (not B&W) active matrix screen as "bad"? You know those screens were absolutely wonderful to work on.

The screen alone does not warrant a machine being better than another. The reasons are listed as to why I made that choice, and, of course, anyone is allowed to disagree. I stand by those statements.

And if you must have rankings, why aren't the model names in it linked?

Just go to the hompage.

Batteries are interchangeable between versions of the same model. So yes, any 17" AlBook can use any other 17" AlBook battery, for example.

The Kanga's real name wasn't "PowerBook 3500c", it was "PowerBook G3" (the word "series" was later used to differentiate the Wallstreet).

A PowerBook 550c needing 2:1 interleaving? Yeah, sure. The Mac Plus needed that. By the time Mac SE (that's 1987) was released, the onboard SCSI was fast enough to allow 1:1 interleaving, and we've never gone back.

Apple's name is Apple Computer, not Apple Computers.

Use proper capitalization. 'imac' isn't right, for example.

"rough."

The PowerBook 2400c isn't a Duo. It's small, but it is not a Duo. What makes a Duo a Duo is the ability to dock into a Duo Dock, and the 2400c doesn't do that.

I notice that you duplicate a lot of information on different pages. I understand the idea of making each page self-contained, but it would make for far easier reading if you kept the non-unique content on separate pages and then just linked to it.

Exactly. It is meant for those wishing to look at a specific PowerBook. I am keeping it this way.

So yeah, overall, you have serious proofreading to do, and a lot of factual errors (the above were just a random sampling), and some visual formatting to fix. (Sorry, you asked for comments! I don't hate you, I swear!)

Oh and, thanks for the apostrophe lesson. I made a point in the first post of including "rough." Yes, there are errors and I fully understand the proper use of apostrophes. There are myriad mistakes (grammar and spelling) that will be fixed.

Lastly, the worst Apple portable ever made was the iBook G3 900 mhz. Logic board failures. Mine crapped out twice - many others in the same situation, sometimes topping 6 failures.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

The Pismo DOES get hot. YOUR Pismo may not get hot to you.

Hey, I've got a Pismo too, and it definitely doesn't get hot at all. Even under a heavy load, the heat it puts out is barely noticeable. Definitely not like the G4 PowerBooks...

Probably? Pick a position. No, I will not shy away from saying that. Those statements are a result of analyzing the stats and experiencing the machines. I stand by my original comments. The 5300 was certainly not the worst PowerBook ever made. Like I state on my site, if it has gone through the refurbishment process, it is an excellent, reliable machine. Apple did extend the warranty on it many times greater than the original 1 year factory warranty. It is a very able performer with OS 8.x with a nice, compact design and an array of ports. Crappy PowerBooks are: the TiBook 400 Mhz G4, the Lombard (OS X upgrading horrid) and the 3400c a tank of a thing. As well, the first Apple portable was a piece of trash.

Um... no. My dad used to have one of those - definitely the worst Mac I've ever had the displeasure of using. Aside from the infamous problem with the exploding batteries, the thing was dog slow, felt cheap, had cheap parts that would break off (such as the battery door cover), would have strange lock-ups, and eventually just gave up and died, and no one cared enough about that piece of crap to get it fixed. Even your website admits that the 5300 had "Logic board failures, melting batteries, casing problems, power connector problems, broken trackpad buttons - to mention a few." To follow it up, your site then says, "Be careful with 5300's, they are prone to fail in many respects."

That machine was the one that severely damaged Apple's reputation for making reliable, quality products.

"rough."

Why so defensive? I got the impression that the reason you posted the thread was because you were looking for constructive criticism to improve your site.

Anyway, here's another apostrophe for you to fix: All the PowerBooks from the Pismo on have a section labeled "How to connect two Mac's via Firewire Target Disk Mode (OS X):".

[freudling]

Go ahead and keep proofing, it will give me more free time. Thanks for the suggestions. But I disagree with the PISMO, mine got really hot. About the same as my new iBook, which is hot.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by freudling

1. The Pismo DOES get hot. YOUR Pismo may not get hot to you.

2. Sorry, since you quite certainly do not know what research went into this, this IS an actual PISMO shipped from Apple to a customer. They put it up on the net to share with others. That person can be accused of lying, but I am not doing that.

3. I disagree re fonts.

4. I agree. Like I said, "rough."

5. Probably? Pick a position. No, I will not shy away from saying that. Those statements are a result of analyzing the stats and experiencing the machines. I stand by my original comments. The 5300 was certainly not the worst PowerBook ever made. Like I state on my site, if it has gone through the refurbishment process, it is an excellent, reliable machine. Apple did extend the warranty on it many times greater than the original 1 year factory warranty. It is a very able performer with OS 8.x with a nice, compact design and an array of ports. Crappy PowerBooks are: the TiBook 400 Mhz G4, the Lombard (OS X upgrading horrid) and the 3400c a tank of a thing. As well, the first Apple portable was a piece of trash.

6. The screen alone does not warrant a machine being better than another. The reasons are listed as to why I made that choice, and, of course, anyone is allowed to disagree. I stand by those statements.

7. Just go to the hompage.

8. "rough."

9. Exactly. It is meant for those wishing to look at a specific PowerBook. I am keeping it this way.

10, Oh and, thanks for the apostrophe lesson. I made a point in the first post of including "rough." Yes, there are errors and I fully understand the proper use of apostrophes. There are myriad mistakes (grammar and spelling) that will be fixed.

11. Lastly, the worst Apple portable ever made was the iBook G3 900 mhz. Logic board failures. Mine crapped out twice - many others in the same situation, sometimes topping 6 failures.

1. Pismos don't get hot. Period. They can get warm, especially when used on a fluffy surface that traps heat. Intel laptops get hot. Some PowerBook G4 models (like my Albook) get REALLY hot. Pismo? No way. (I have one, I know whence I speak.)

2. Then that person is lying. Apple had abandoned the rainbow ("spectrum") logo LONG before the Pismo came out. By the time the Lombard introduced the glowing apple, the white apple logo was already in use (on the Wallstreet). There were, however, actual accounts of people modding their Lombards, Pismos and iBooks to have the spectrum logo.

3. Font legibility, on the whole, isn't opinion, it's typographical fact. Serif fonts are better on paper, worse on screen. Vice versa for sans-serif fonts. And all-caps text is much harder to read than mixed case. This isn't debatable.

4, 8, 10. It's better to clean up as you go than to have already copied the text into dozens of pages and have to go back and fix it. As such, I didn't think you were aware of the flaws.

5. My point was that there isn't ONE "best" model. What's best for you may not be best for others. It's better to let people come to their own conclusions!

As for the Mac Portable: did you ever use one of those? I did, a lot. They are one of the nicest old models to work on, with a fast CPU (twice that of an SE) for a black-and-white model, a razor-sharp screen, decent size HD, tremendous battery life, real keyboard and trackball. The only thing is that it wasn't a laptop -- nor did it claim to be. It's a portable, not a laptop.

And the Lombard, crappy? Was it the best? Hardly. That honor probably goes to the Pismo or Wallstreet. But the Lombard, crappy? Yeah, in some other dimension maybe.

And what's wrong with the original TiBook? It didn't have anywhere near the widespread troubles of the 5300.

Overall, what on earth are you basing your ratings on? It seems to be something entirely different from what everyone else is considering.

6. Right. Exactly. The 165c is inferior to the 180c in every way except the screen diagonal. I can't see how you could recommend the older model over the newer in light of that.

7. Bad design. The whole point of the web (as the name implies) is direct linking.

9. And having a concise article that links to troubleshooting steps contradicts this how, exactly?

11. I never said "worst laptop". I said "worst PB" -- PowerBook. The iBook and Mac Portable aren't PowerBooks. I'd still sooner choose an iBook over a 5300. Those were... a mess.


And yeah, if you didn't want criticism, why'd you ask for it?


tooki

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by freudling

Go ahead and keep proofing, it will give me more free time. Thanks for the suggestions. But I disagree with the PISMO, mine got really hot. About the same as my new iBook, which is hot.

Then don't base your assertion simply on the fact that yours gets hot. What if yours is the only one that gets hot like that? What if only 1% of Pismos are like that?

[goMac]

My bosses old Pismo never got hot.

[andreas_g4]

freudling, some feedback on the design. If I was searching for information, I would not stay on this site for more than a few seconds. It is cluttered, especially the text wrap around the images is very confusing to the eye.

- align all objects on a consistent grid
- make the images same size, probably with a tiny border
- reduce colors, make them support the eye
- reduce typefaces, usually one font bold/regual is enough
- use some taste

And as pointed out, why all this except for training? The site should have some advantages to offer.

I hope you are not offended, but the site is not worth viewing in this state.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by tooki

1. Pismos don't get hot. Period. They can get warm, especially when used on a fluffy surface that traps heat. Intel laptops get hot. Some PowerBook G4 models (like my Albook) get REALLY hot. Pismo? No way. (I have one, I know whence I speak.)

Indeed. My Pismo is so cool and so quiet that if the power-saving feature turns the screen off, I can't tell if the computer is on or not.

[isao bered]

my pismo gets hot and the fan comes on (quite loud)...

... if it's playing a dvd movie and i've placed it on the bed. otherwise it gets just a little warm - usually just enough to keep my lap happy. ;-) now i feel naughty for having said that...

be well.

laeth

[starman]

The original TiBook was not crap. I loved it. it was such a leap forward from the previous Powerbooks. In fact, I miss my TiBook. I contemplated buying one recently.

[freudling]

Originally Posted by tooki

1. Pismos don't get hot. Period. They can get warm, especially when used on a fluffy surface that traps heat. Intel laptops get hot. Some PowerBook G4 models (like my Albook) get REALLY hot. Pismo? No way. (I have one, I know whence I speak.)

They get hot.

2. Then that person is lying. Apple had abandoned the rainbow ("spectrum") logo LONG before the Pismo came out. By the time the Lombard introduced the glowing apple, the white apple logo was already in use (on the Wallstreet). There were, however, actual accounts of people modding their Lombards, Pismos and iBooks to have the spectrum logo.

Right, the person must be lying because you said so. Nice logic.

3. Font legibility, on the whole, isn't opinion, it's typographical fact. Serif fonts are better on paper, worse on screen. Vice versa for sans-serif fonts. And all-caps text is much harder to read than mixed case. This isn't debatable.

Tis debatable and I like the font, so do others who have emailed me about the site. Sorry you don't think so but the font stays.

4, 8, 10. It's better to clean up as you go than to have already copied the text into dozens of pages and have to go back and fix it. As such, I didn't think you were aware of the flaws.

Ah, Find and Replace All for this.

5. My point was that there isn't ONE "best" model. What's best for you may not be best for others. It's better to let people come to their own conclusions!

Funny. Like my conclusions actually jump from the screen and force you to form the same ones. My criteria is clear if you look at the ratings. Disagree, I don' really care too much.

As for the Mac Portable: did you ever use one of those? I did, a lot. They are one of the nicest old models to work on, with a fast CPU (twice that of an SE) for a black-and-white model, a razor-sharp screen, decent size HD, tremendous battery life, real keyboard and trackball. The only thing is that it wasn't a laptop -- nor did it claim to be. It's a portable, not a laptop.

Yup, trash. Terrible design. Was behind the times when it came out in terms of portability, but it does sport many features and was one of the first desktop replacements, which I give it.

And the Lombard, crappy? Was it the best? Hardly. That honor probably goes to the Pismo or Wallstreet. But the Lombard, crappy? Yeah, in some other dimension maybe.

Ya, the Lombard is riddled with problems. Upgrading to OS X was, in a significant amount of cases, horrid for people and Apple faced a class action suit over it. The Lombard also suffered from crashes, due to its hardware. It was just finicky. But it was the first "thin" 14.1" PowerBook, upon which the Pismo greatly improved its weaknesses.

And what's wrong with the original TiBook? It didn't have anywhere near the widespread troubles of the 5300.

Some of the following applies to all TiBooks. The 400's paint flaked off; it had/has very slow firewire; a bending case; crap keyboard; gets hot; and a bottle necked processor. It is no faster than a 500 Pismo and the Pismo edges it in some respects.

Overall, what on earth are you basing your ratings on? It seems to be something entirely different from what everyone else is considering.

Blah blah, what is everyone else basing their ratings on? Show me your survey.

6. Right. Exactly. The 165c is inferior to the 180c in every way except the screen diagonal. I can't see how you could recommend the older model over the newer in light of that.

Go back and read why, oh wait, you can't read the font.

7. Bad design. The whole point of the web (as the name implies) is direct linking.

I agree, bad design.

9. And having a concise article that links to troubleshooting steps contradicts this how, exactly?

11. I never said "worst laptop". I said "worst PB" -- PowerBook. The iBook and Mac Portable aren't PowerBooks. I'd still sooner choose an iBook over a 5300. Those were... a mess.

And yeah, if you didn't want criticism, why'd you ask for it?

Love ya tooki.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

They get hot.

Dude, tell that to my Pismo that never gets hot at all.

So far, we've got one Pismo that gets hot - yours. And we have four that don't. No, that couldn't possibly just be your Pismo...

[besson3c]

I think you should recode this page by hand, I see you used Dreamweaver to code this page.

Looking at the code, it looks rather sloppy. You should aim to move all styling to your CSS pages, right now it looks like a hodgepodge of CSS and overriding HTML style specification.

Google will really give pages with lean and mean code a higher ranking, plus putting in the time to design the site as I've suggested should help you maintain the site as it grows.

You might also want to look into making the content dynamic, assuming you intend to add to and correct this information over time.

[besson3c]

I think you should recode this page by hand, no WYSIWYG tools. I see you used Dreamweaver to code this page.

Looking at the code, it looks rather sloppy. You should aim to move all styling to your CSS pages, right now it looks like a hodgepodge of CSS and overriding HTML style specification.

Google will really give pages with lean and mean code a higher ranking, plus putting in the time to design the site as I've suggested should help you maintain the site as it grows.

You might also want to look into making the content dynamic, assuming you intend to add to and correct this information over time.

[freudling]

CharlesS:

No, isao bered's Pismo gets hot too. Hey, I know, since we have 4 Pismos that don't get hot, therefore, the Pismo doesn't get hot. Excellent logic.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by freudling

CharlesS:

No, isao bered's Pismo gets hot too. Hey, I know, since we have 4 Pismos that don't get hot, therefore, the Pismo doesn't get hot. Excellent logic.

When it's on his bed... playing a DVD...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

No, isao bered's Pismo gets hot too.

Um, no. He said that it only gets hot when playing a DVD while on his bed (probably blocking some of the ventilation).

In normal use, he said his does not get hot.

Hey, I know, since we have 4 Pismos that don't get hot, therefore, the Pismo doesn't get hot. Excellent logic.

Hey, I know, since we only have one Pismo that gets hot, therefore, all Pismos must get hot, even though the other 4 don't. That's much better logic.

[teknopimp]

interesting info. never knew i owned the Road Warrior.

text a bit large, could use better navigation/layout and graphics.

does anyone know of any dedicated clamshell sites?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by teknopimp

does anyone know of any dedicated clamshell sites?

Clamshell site

[freudling]

The statement, "His Pismo gets hot" is correct.

The statement regarding Pismos getting hot on my site was due to numerous posts about the Pismo getting hot, as well as other sites listing this as a problem with the Pismo. Nice try. Ah, the dogma.

One thing that is both good but not with the plastic casing of the Pismo and its relatives is that, while it doesn't get as hot underneath as the 12" 867 Mhz G4 aluminum, it still gets very hot and it is also poor and disspating heat. This causing internal parts to overheat. Aluminum is a good choice in this regard, but the material itself gets too hot as a result of its ability to dissipate heat well.

Heat has been a huge issue since the inception of the Wallstreet: big, hefty desktop replacments. The two Pismos I owned were unequivocally hot, too hot to rest on my lap sometimes. Heat depends on how much you are doing at one time. If you are like me, I have used laptops soley for years and use them hard. All of my rigs get very hot. The worst has been the TiBook and 12" 867 G4.

[isao bered]

Originally Posted by freudling

The statement, "His Pismo gets hot when he does something stupid like place it on a comforter and lets it sit there for an hour while watching a dvd" is correct.

fixed. :-)

otherwise it gently keeps my willy warm. my pismo does not get hot during normal use and the fan does not come on - and this is true both before and after the g4 upgrade.

and an aside. the slot loading cd/dvd upgrade works so much more consistently than the orignal tray (went through three of those). a move i'd recommend for those pismo users whose original bay drive has crapped out.

be well.

laeth

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

The statement regarding Pismos getting hot on my site was due to numerous posts about the Pismo getting hot, as well as other sites listing this as a problem with the Pismo. Nice try. Ah, the dogma.

Link? I did a Google search, and I couldn't find anything referring to the Pismo having a bigger problem with heat than any other PowerBook models. I did find these articles by Charles Moore in MacOpinion praising the Pismo for being less hot than other PowerBook models, though:

Originally Posted by http://www.macopinion.com/columns/roadwarrior/02/03/12/

My 1998 vintage WallStreet PowerBook with a 233 MHz aluminum PowerPC chip runs at about 140 ?- 150?. In three and a half years of use, the thermostatically controlled cooling fan has cut in only three times, all on very hot summer days. My 2000-vintage Pismo PowerBook with a 500 MHz copper PowerPC chip runs even cooler -- about 130? - 135?, which proves that you can have more speed with less heat through technological advance, but the fact that the 500 MHz - 600 MHz G3 iBook is already runs hot doesn't augur well for heat issues with G4 power.

Originally Posted by http://www.macopinion.com/columns/roadwarrior/02/10/15/

It’s possible that the memory cache chips used in the Lombard may have been particularly susceptible to heat damage, and the Lombard can get pretty torrid inside. My son tells me that he has seen his show 180° on Newer Technologies’ little Gauge Pro utility. My now-deceased WallStreet used to run in the 135° - 150° range, and, coincidentally or not, it died on one of the hottest days we had last summer. My Pismo, interestingly, despite having a 500 MHz processor and 640 MB of RAM, rarely got over 140° last summer, and when I checked it after a three hour session last evening, it was showing a cool 107°, which bolsters my optimism about its potential longevity.

...

My personal pick at this time for a replacement for my Wall Street would probably be either an iBook or perhaps another Pismo with a G4 upgrade. I’m told that the G4 chip being used for the Pismo upgrades actually runs cooler than the G3 replaces, although it’s hard to imagine that it could be any more tepid in running temperature than my current Pismo.

So, the Pismo runs cooler than the Lombard, it runs cooler than the Wallstreet, it runs cooler than the G3 iceBooks, and we all know that it runs cooler than the G4 PowerBooks, so what exactly is it hotter than? Ancient 68k PowerBooks?

I did learn something from my little attempt to find information on the Pismo being hot, however - the Pismo has a fan. I've had one for several years, and I seriously didn't know that it had one, because the thing has never become hot enough for the thing to turn on.

[far200]

nice site...... being some what new to mac there is a lot of the old powerbooks that I never had the chance to see...... I now know what a wall street looks like.... LoL ...... ah the simple things in life......

[- - e r i k - -]

Bad: Ø

???

You _do_ realize there are actually people who use and will read this as a letter right?

[freudling]

CharlesS:

Sorry, not buying it. I have had user reports stating the opposite to what Charles Moore is saying. In order to "prove" either side, you would need to get a representative sample from each line and run a heat test under x conditions. Both of mine were as hot as the Wallstreet. It is cooler than the Aluminums, but as of late, things have cooled down. The TiBooks are hot, and the Pismo close behind. Just because Charles Moore says it is cooler doesn't mean they generally are. Your reasoning is fallacious in that you are making the, "argument by authority."

Also, my research was done by extracting info often very buried in user forums all over, and was done about 3.5 years ago. This, in conjunction with user reports.

The point: my site says, "The Pismo gets extremely hot." That it does. It says nothing of it getting "hotter than" other models, although it actually does. Based on my research, experience and user comments, I stand by my original statement.

Sorry CharlesS, another strike out.

[CharlesS]

Clicking on most of the pictures on the front page causes a 404 error...

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

CharlesS:

Sorry, not buying it. I have had user reports stating the opposite to what Charles Moore is saying. In order to "prove" either side, you would need to get a representative sample from each line and run a heat test under x conditions. Both of mine were as hot as the Wallstreet. It is cooler than the Aluminums, but as of late, things have cooled down. The TiBooks are hot, and the Pismo close behind. Just because Charles Moore says it is cooler doesn't mean they generally are. Your reasoning is fallacious in that you are making the, "argument by authority."

No, it's you who's making an argument by authority, only yours is an authority you won't even link to so that we can look at it ourselves. My argument is based on:

1. My own experience (i.e. I own a Pismo, and I know it doesn't run hot because, you know, I have one)

2. The experiences of the majority in this thread, whose experiences are all the same as mine

3. The fact that you claim many articles say the Pismo is hot, but you won't link to anything, and when I do a Google search I only find stuff that says the opposite of what you claim.

It just seems that if the Pismo is so hot, that it wouldn't be the case that it running cool would the experience of everyone except you.

Sorry, but I cannot let this slander of the Pismo, the best Apple laptop ever made, go unchallenged.

[freudling]

CharlesS:

You are, well, absurd. I love ya anyway. Like I said, I researched this a while back, so I can't point you into any one spot. Leave it alone. Sorry, mine DOES get hot, as well as others who said theirs does too. It is a general statement and doesn't really say anything more than the Pismo is capable of running very hot.

Here, you might like my new blog:

http://doubleblank.blogspot.com/

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

CharlesS:

You are, well, absurd. I love ya anyway. Like I said, I researched this a while back, so I can't point you into any one spot. Leave it alone. Sorry, mine DOES get hot, as well as others who said theirs does too.

If this sentiment is really so widespread, you should be able to come up with at least one link...

It is a general statement and doesn't really say anything more than the Pismo is capable of running very hot.

So what exactly do you do with it that makes it run so hot? I've done compiling, which is usually a pretty intensive process, without it getting hot. What on earth are you doing with it? As I said, I've never even had the fan come on.

It's just that I've had a Pismo for a while, and "hot" is an adjective I'd never use to describe it, especially after seeing G4 laptops and also Pentium 4 notebooks with the Self-Sterilization Engine™.

[bookofjames]

any idea if there is a similar website on mac desktops?

i'm thinking of getting a 2nd hand mac desktop to strem my music and store my photos, but wondering what are the models to choose and how compatible it is to my current PB.

[residentEvil]

I'll stick with everymac.com.

[starman]

It just goes to show that when you put up a web site, be prepared to take the criticism that goes along with it.

[Eriamjh]

It would be more correct to note that some users say their Pismos got hot. I had one. The fan came on once in 14 months. It got warm, but not hot.

[tooki]

My Pismo's fan came on once in the nearly 6 years I've owned it.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by freudling

1) They get hot.

2) Right, the person must be lying because you said so. Nice logic.

3) Tis debatable and I like the font, so do others who have emailed me about the site. Sorry you don't think so but the font stays.

4) Ah, Find and Replace All for this.

5) Funny. Like my conclusions actually jump from the screen and force you to form the same ones. My criteria is clear if you look at the ratings. Disagree, I don' really care too much.

6) Yup, trash. Terrible design. Was behind the times when it came out in terms of portability, but it does sport many features and was one of the first desktop replacements, which I give it.

7) Ya, the Lombard is riddled with problems. Upgrading to OS X was, in a significant amount of cases, horrid for people and Apple faced a class action suit over it. The Lombard also suffered from crashes, due to its hardware. It was just finicky. But it was the first "thin" 14.1" PowerBook, upon which the Pismo greatly improved its weaknesses.

8) Some of the following applies to all TiBooks. The 400's paint flaked off; it had/has very slow firewire; a bending case; crap keyboard; gets hot; and a bottle necked processor. It is no faster than a 500 Pismo and the Pismo edges it in some respects.

9) Blah blah, what is everyone else basing their ratings on? Show me your survey.

10) Go back and read why, oh wait, you can't read the font.

11) Love ya tooki.

1) Clearly disproved.

2) No, the person is lying because, as I explained, Apple had LONG abandoned the spectrum logo by the time the Pismo shipped. It's not cuz "I said so", it's because Apple was no longer using that logo. NO spectrum logos ever glowed on any model.

3) It is known fact that legibility of serif fonts is lower than that on sans-serif fonts for on screen use. (In print, the reverse is true.) That isn't opinion. It is your choice whether you want your site to be more-legible or not.

4) Until find-and-replace replaces something that shouldn't be replaced. (For example, one can't use find-and-replace to fix "loose" vs "lose" because they are both words that could appear in the same text.)

6) No, not trash! It was very nicely designed. It wasn't a laptop, and didn't claim to be. It did what it claimed extremely well, and it was very well built.

7) In the years of supporting many, many clients, nobody's had unusual problems with Lombards. There are also no anecdotes of unusual problems with Lombards. I don't know where you're getting this stuff.

8) It wasn't a perfect machine, but most people didn't have trouble with it. And the G4 chip makes a difference in lots of apps.

9) Survey? Let's see yours, too. Oh wait, it's all based on anecdotes nobody else can even confirm.

11) Again, if you didn't want real criticism, why'd you ask for it? Your site has flaws, and instead of considering "hmm, maybe they could have a point", you insult us. What gives?

tooki

[starman]

I just revisited the site. I'll never go to it again.

Here's a tip:

http://www.csszengarden.com

[freudling]

1) Clearly disproved.

Nope.

2) No, the person is lying because, as I explained, Apple had LONG abandoned the spectrum logo by the time the Pismo shipped. It's not cuz "I said so", it's because Apple was no longer using that logo. NO spectrum logos ever glowed on any model.

As you explained? So this is just your conjecture. You offer no evidence. Also, nobody ever said the logo glowed on that particular model. The user said he was concerned when the powerbook was shipped to him straight from apple. He called support and later he determined a handful were made like this.

3) It is known fact that legibility of serif fonts is lower than that on sans-serif fonts for on screen use. (In print, the reverse is true.) That isn't opinion. It is your choice whether you want your site to be more-legible or not.

Sorry, looks better to some eyes, including mine. But I agree that the homepage is too cluttered. I am going to use drop down menus.

4) Until find-and-replace replaces something that shouldn't be replaced. (For example, one can't use find-and-replace to fix "loose" vs "lose" because they are both words that could appear in the same text.)

Worked great for me.

6) No, not trash! It was very nicely designed. It wasn't a laptop, and didn't claim to be. It did what it claimed extremely well, and it was very well built.

Disagree. I don't like it. Poor design, ugly keyboard and the screen leaves much be desired, as well as it was not very portable. Another problem was that even when plugged in, it ran off the battery, so if your battery is gone, even if plugged in, it may not work.

7) In the years of supporting many, many clients, nobody's had unusual problems with Lombards. There are also no anecdotes of unusual problems with Lombards. I don't know where you're getting this stuff.

"Lombards make decent OS X computers, although some have ROM issues that can only be alleviated by replacing the CPU daughtercard. The DVD-ROM drive uses hardware decoding, which is not supported under OS X; Apple faced and eventually lost a class-action lawsuit over this issue."

http://www.macworld.com/news/2002/01/31/g3osx/

http://www.macopinion.com/columns/ro.../15/index.html

Also, many users were getting freezes when trying to install X. It is on xlr8 your mac and MacFixit:

http://www.macfixitforums.com/php/sh...=5&o=7∂=

If you have more than one ram module, it can cause the processor to crash.

8) It wasn't a perfect machine, but most people didn't have trouble with it. And the G4 chip makes a difference in lots of apps.

9) Survey? Let's see yours, too. Oh wait, it's all based on anecdotes nobody else can even confirm.

LUV YA TOOK.

[tooki]

You've confounded multiple things, some of which aren't even relevant.

Whatever, believe what you want, you obviously aren't open to criticism, despite having explicitly asked for it, and you basically insult anyone who points things out (like that the large Apple logos on PowerBook lids have always been white).

And now, your site loads to a personal trainer page.

tooki

[freudling]

You bet.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by freudling

Nope.

Ya know, iPods should be avoided, because they have problems with not starting up. I know, because mine doesn't start up. Never mind that no one else has this problem, since mine does, then all iPods do. Never mind the fact that I dropped it on the floor...

Oh, and I think I remember some other people saying this years ago. Although I can't provide any references. Therefore, it must be true!

</freudling>

As you explained? So this is just your conjecture. You offer no evidence. Also, nobody ever said the logo glowed on that particular model. The user said he was concerned when the powerbook was shipped to him straight from apple. He called support and later he determined a handful were made like this.

Um, you're the one making the positive claim, that Apple shipped machines with the rainbow logo. Therefore, you're the one who needs to back that up with evidence. All you're going on right now is the word of one anonymous person that you met on the Internet. That's not enough to publish on a definitive PowerBook info page, especially since there's no other evidence that such a beast was ever made by Apple.

Oh, and the logo definitely glowed on the Pismo. Are you sure you had one of these?

Worked great for me.

Only if you never legitimately used the word "loose" anywhere on the site...

Originally Posted by tooki

Whatever, believe what you want, you obviously aren't open to criticism, despite having explicitly asked for it, and you basically insult anyone who points things out (like that the large Apple logos on PowerBook lids have always been white).

Indeed. WTF?