[Kerrigan]

I am debating getting either getting a Smart Car or a Ford Excursion. Would anyone like to chime in with their opinion on the advantages of one over the other?

[BRussell]

Haha.

Why don't you get one of each and then put the Smart Car inside the Ford. That way you could drive around with both.

[Ghoser777]

What are you buying the car for?

[The Godfather]

This thread is pure flame bait.

[Mastrap]

Excellent plan to buy both. You could use one as a life raft for the other.

[olePigeon]

I would forgo the SUV and get a 2006 Ford Mustang Saleen S281. Even though it's a coupe, if you have any kids, they'll get squeezed through the seat creases and into the back anyway when you hit the accelerator.

[Sealobo]

OK i will start...

SUV is so typical american. I say go for it.

*duck*

[Montezuma58]

98% of SUVs are driven by people who are too insecure to admit they really need a minivan.

[Kevin]

I think he is trying to do the "resurrect Rob" dance.

[Maflynn]

You need to ask yourself what do you want to use it for.
SUVs can carry good number of people, or cargo but the mileage really stinks. Have you looked at your driving habits and the cost of gas. Its not going to be going down, so you also need to factor that in.

Mike

[itistoday]

It's the difference between personal mental security or the guilt of contributing to this world's destruction. If you drive a hybrid or otherwise environmentally-safe car you can have peace of mind knowing that you are one of the few people that care enough to fix humanity's problems, and are additionally helping send the signal to car manufacturers that people want environmentally safe cars.

I would only buy an SUV if you REALLY NEED it. By that I mean you frequently drive around 4 or more people (not including you) and/or need to tow things like trailers or boats. If you're just considering buying one so that you can have peace of mind knowing you'll kill the other driver and they won't be able to kill you, then may you fly off a cliff somewhere along with the other insecure soccer moms that talk on their cell phones 24/7 and drive like incoherent retards.

[bstone]

I have an SUV. I love it. 93 Ford Explorer XLT. I think I have a legit reason for using having it:
1) During the school year I drive maybe 200 miles. It sits for weeks at a time.
2) Every summer I volunteer in a free medical clinic and on my way there I have the SUV completely packet with medical supplies
3) I just spent 3 months in Southern Mississippi. Got there 5 days after the storm (Katrina) and was running a free, tent-based medical clinic in the town of Waveland. This town was completely obliterated in the storm. During those 3 months I slept in my SUV. I put the back seat down, put down some blankets and pillows and had a really comfortable time sleeping. Later I moved into an abandonded condo building that just happened to have no mold growing, but mostly I was in the SUV. Again, the SUV sat for weeks at a time while I walked the 500 paces to the tent where the clinic was.

I am hoping I qualify for an SUV license.

That said, for people who buy SUVs to drive to the store, soccer practice, etc- I hope your SUVs spontaneously catch fire in the middle of the night burning them to the ground (but not hurting anyone).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by itistoday

It's the difference between personal mental security or the guilt of contributing to this world's destruction. If you drive a hybrid or otherwise environmentally-safe car you can have peace of mind knowing that you are one of the few people that care enough to fix humanity's problems

Unless you're a meat-eater. In which case you can still feel guilty as a cow puts out more global warming than a Range Rover does.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by bstone

I have an SUV. I love it. 93 Ford Explorer XLT. I think I have a legit reason for using having it:
1) During the school year I drive maybe 200 miles. It sits for weeks at a time.
2) Every summer I volunteer in a free medical clinic and on my way there I have the SUV completely packet with medical supplies
3) I just spent 3 months in Southern Mississippi. Got there 5 days after the storm (Katrina) and was running a free, tent-based medical clinic in the town of Waveland. This town was completely obliterated in the storm. During those 3 months I slept in my SUV. I put the back seat down, put down some blankets and pillows and had a really comfortable time sleeping. Later I moved into an abandonded condo building that just happened to have no mold growing, but mostly I was in the SUV. Again, the SUV sat for weeks at a time while I walked the 500 paces to the tent where the clinic was.

I am hoping I qualify for an SUV license.

Denied.

1,2 & 3 do not require four wheel drive or a vehicle designed for towing or offroad use. Your descriptions mean that you need CARGO ROOM and a flat bed that you can occasionally sleep in. None of your reasons seem to go anywhere near the need for owning a vehicle that was designed for traversing offroad and in horrible conditions, or towing heavy loads. Look into a large station wagon (magnum, forester, etc) or a minivan, and you'll get much better handling, braking, and mpg while being safer on the road for both yourself and everyone else. As a bonus station wagons are quite fun to drive, as they have a closer to 50/50 weigh distribution, the extra metal and glass helps balance out the weight of the engine in front.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Unless you're a meat-eater. In which case you can still feel guilty as a cow puts out more global warming than a Range Rover does.

Methane, yes. Use up oil at high rates, kill other people, roll over and kill people who bought the cow for safety reasons, no.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by Montezuma58

98% of SUVs are driven by people who are too insecure to admit they really need a minivan.

edit

[bstone]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

Denied.

1,2 & 3 do not require four wheel drive or a vehicle designed for towing or offroad use. Your descriptions mean that you need CARGO ROOM and a flat bed that you can occasionally sleep in. None of your reasons seem to go anywhere near the need for owning a vehicle that was designed for traversing offroad and in horrible conditions, or towing heavy loads. Look into a large station wagon (magnum, forester, etc) or a minivan, and you'll get much better handling, braking, and mpg while being safer on the road for both yourself and everyone else. As a bonus station wagons are quite fun to drive, as they have a closer to 50/50 weigh distribution, the extra metal and glass helps balance out the weight of the engine in front.

I'll wait to get an opinion from someone who has more than just 1 post under the belt.

When I got to MS, btw, the roads were so filled with debris that only SUVs were getting anywhere.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

Methane, yes.

You're probably forgetting that cows generally tend to throw out large amounts of CO2. It's called breathing and they do it 24/7.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Unless you're a meat-eater. In which case you can still feel guilty as a cow puts out more global warming than a Range Rover does.

Yes, but cows don't drive SUVs. Unless you count the Chelsea chicks blocking the road whilst dropping little Jeremy off at school of course.

As far as the cow - SUV comparison is concerned: Burning fossil fuel releases greenhouse gases that were safely locked away inside whatever fuel we're burning - for millennia in most cases. Eating grass and farting doesn't do anything of similar impact IIRC. But I'm not a scientist and might be totally wrong here.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by bstone

I'll wait to get an opinion from someone who has more than just 1 post under the belt.

When I got to MS, btw, the roads were so filled with debris that only SUVs were getting anywhere.

See any subarus? Most subaru wagons have more ground clearance than ford explorers, while getting better mpg, braking, acceleration, and handling, and offering comparable interior space*.

*: Might be less room, but because it doesn't have such huge wheel well intrusions it's usually wider, and thus more useable.

[euchomai]

This can't be a real thread, and these can't be real responses. There is no cursing, no screaming and hardly any name calling. Wow, it is a new year.

Well, I'd go for the one that would cost less over time (if you are happy with either). Why lock yourself into high payments, or even high gas prices.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by bstone

I'll wait to get an opinion from someone who has more than just 1 post under the belt.

Wait until you get an opinion off someone sane too... My SUV gets better mileage than his road car does.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

As far as the cow - SUV comparison is concerned: Burning fossil fuel releases greenhouse gases that were safely locked away inside whatever fuel we're burning - for millennia in most cases. Eating grass and farting doesn't do anything of similar impact IIRC. But I'm not a scientist and might be totally wrong here.

They (scientist bods) have recently found out that a cow does more damage than a Range Rover. Really. So all this talk about saving the planet by not driving gas-guzzlers is complete sh!te unless you're also veggie.
But then, it's easier (and trendier) to rag on SUV drivers than it is to stop eating meat, eh Rob?

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

Most subaru wagons have more ground clearance than ford explorers

No they don't. Most Subaru wagons have as much ground clearance as a WRX car. That's because most Subaru wagons are, in fact, WRX cars with a bit of extra metal at the back.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

They (scientist bods) have recently found out that a cow does more damage than a Range Rover. Really. So all this talk about saving the planet by not driving gas-guzzlers is complete sh!te unless you're also veggie.
But then, it's easier (and trendier) to rag on SUV drivers than it is to stop eating meat, eh Rob?

Well, just because we have more than one problem doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of them one by one, no? I am all for responsible farming (selfishly, happy animals taste better) but I am also for responsible car ownership.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Doofy

They (scientist bods) have recently found out that a cow does more damage than a Range Rover.

Uh... link?

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Doofy

They (scientist bods) have recently found out that a cow does more damage than a Range Rover. Really. So all this talk about saving the planet by not driving gas-guzzlers is complete sh!te unless you're also veggie.
But then, it's easier (and trendier) to rag on SUV drivers than it is to stop eating meat, eh Rob?

OMG DID YOU SEE TOP GEAR TOO?! They're talking about methane and CO2. Oil consumption, high rollovers, and the high risk of harming yourself or other people is my main reason against them. Almost any car today is pretty 'clean' as far as what it emits, it's just a question of HOW MUCH and the rate of consumption and safety that bothers me. People should buy based on performance, not image.

Suburban SUV owners are equatable to the 17 yr olds putting spoilers on hondas.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by itistoday

If you're just considering buying one so that you can have peace of mind knowing you'll kill the other driver and they won't be able to kill you...

Which is a myth anyway.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Doofy

No they don't. Most Subaru wagons have as much ground clearance as a WRX car. That's because most Subaru wagons are, in fact, WRX cars with a bit of extra metal at the back.

Yes they do. WRXs and foresters don't have live rear axles like many SUVs, so their differentials don't hang down and catch on things. I've parked my grandmother's forester next to many SUVs and the difference in ground clearance is simply amazing.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

Almost any car today is pretty 'clean' as far as what it emits, it's just a question of HOW MUCH and the rate of consumption

Dude. Your car consumes more than my SUV. Stop while you're not too embarrassed.

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

and safety that bothers me.

Dude. My SUV doesn't get driven at 120 mph through urban areas. It doesn't have a throwing knife collection under the seat. It's never driven by someone with a quick temper. That makes it safer than your car.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

Yes they do. WRXs and foresters don't have live rear axles like many SUVs, so their differentials don't hang down and catch on things. I've parked my grandmother's forester next to many SUVs and the difference in ground clearance is simply amazing.

Dude, just stop. You lost. My next door neighbour has a WRX wagon. It's got nowhere near the 9 inches my Jeep has.

Plus, of course, you know that independent suspension is crap off-road, don't you? Which kind of defeats your own argument.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Well, just because we have more than one problem doesn't mean we shouldn't take care of them one by one, no? I am all for responsible farming (selfishly, happy animals taste better)

See, you can't even see the problem. It's not about the animals being happy - a happy animal churns out just the same CO2/methane as an unhappy one. It's about the fact that you're eating them in the first place.

But hey, they taste nice so go with the flow, be trendy and rag on SUV drivers.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Uh... link?

Go google for it. I can't be bothered as I got it from a reliable verbal source.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I am debating getting either getting a Smart Car or a Ford Excursion. Would anyone like to chime in with their opinion on the advantages of one over the other?

Those look like cool little cars.

Kerrigan, unless you have a real need for an SUV, as has been detailed in this thread, consider the Smart Car for:

1.) Fuel savings

2.) Our world

Do realize that even these cars aren't really helping the environment, just hurting it much less than an SUV or other gasoline-guzzling vehicles. But, it's an important step in the right direction, and the way we've gone about damaging the environment, we need to at least minimize what damage we continue to do for now, until better and affordable alternatives are available to the public.

By purchasing a fuel-efficient car, you're doing your part to minimize the damage, contrary to those people who have no consideration for such matters. And, as has been stated, you are sending a message to the car manufacturers-- voting with your wallet, if you will.

On a by-note, one of my friends just recently got a Scion xB, and he is very happy with it.-- Very fuel efficient, taller roof (does make a difference inside), nice leg space, and versatile cargo space.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Dude. My SUV doesn't get driven at 120 mph through urban areas. It doesn't have a throwing knife collection under the seat. It's never driven by someone with a quick temper. That makes it safer than your car.

With respect, that's not necessarily the case. We all know that accidents happen, sometimes without fault of the driver. Fact is that SUV passengers are more at risk from rollover than passengers in a standard car. And the passengers in the standard car are more at risk if their car is involved in an accident with a SUV. And should you have a bullbar fitted then god help the pedestrian strolling in your path.

Your responsible driving is effectively negated (at least in part) by the higher danger inherent in the design of most SUVs. I don't think that point can be discussed away.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

See, you can't even see the problem. It's not about the animals being happy - a happy animal churns out just the same CO2/methane as an unhappy one. It's about the fact that you're eating them in the first place.

But hey, they taste nice so go with the flow, be trendy and rag on SUV drivers.

Maybe I didn't make myself very clear - happy animals tend to come from responsible farmers, who are usually not known for burning down rain forests and raising cattle by the million.

Personally I think that people who eat mass produced beef are as irresponsible as the people who drive a SUV in town.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Which is a myth anyway.

No, I don't have any surveys/statistics to quote (because I don't think any have been done), but I know simply from talking to many such mothers that this is the case.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Dude. Your car consumes more than my SUV. Stop while you're not too embarrassed. Dude. My SUV doesn't get driven at 120 mph through urban areas. It doesn't have a throwing knife collection under the seat. It's never driven by someone with a quick temper. That makes it safer than your car.

My car hasn't even moved since august, so you lose this argument.

[itistoday]

Originally Posted by bstone

I'll wait to get an opinion from someone who has more than just 1 post under the belt

Sorry to break it to you bub, but that guy's got more posts on this forum than probably anyone here (he's just been banned a million times). Someone should really add them all up and see what it comes out to...

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Dude, just stop. You lost. My next door neighbour has a WRX wagon. It's got nowhere near the 9 inches my Jeep has.

Plus, of course, you know that independent suspension is crap off-road, don't you? Which kind of defeats your own argument.

Park next to a forester. The WRX is decent, but I was referring more towards the legacy, and legacy outbacks. I've taken an outback offroading and it worked great.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Maybe I didn't make myself very clear - happy animals tend to come from responsible farmers, who are usually not known for burning down rain forests and raising cattle by the million.

Personally I think that people who eat mass produced beef are as irresponsible as the people who drive a SUV in town.

The ground beef I buy is free-range, and local.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Fact is that SUV passengers are more at risk from rollover than passengers in a standard car. And the passengers in the standard car are more at risk if their car is involved in an accident with a SUV.

So it balances out then, with the preference being on the side of the safe SUV driver. Rob loses control and hits me after his 120 mph tantrums, I stand a better chance of survival in an SUV than in a SMART.

Originally Posted by Mastrap

And should you have a bullbar fitted then god help the pedestrian strolling in your path.

Even then there's a lot of assuming going on. My bull bar is mounted via soft rubber bushes which give when you push against them, making everything nice and soft and bouncy. I'm pretty sure you'd want to be hit by me than by almost any other vehicle.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Fact is that SUV passengers are more at risk from rollover than passengers in a standard car.

According to tests conducted by the Consumer Union (the people from Consumer Reports) this is true. The Consumer Union even got sued for saying this, and won.

They even have a website dedicated to rollover info: http://www.consumersunion.org/rollover/

From their FAQs:

5. Are SUVs more involved in rollover than other vehicles?
Yes. NHTSA announced in July 2003 that "fatalities in rollover crashes accounted for 82% of the total fatality increase in 2002. . . The number of persons killed in sport utility vehicles (SUVs) that rolled over rose 14%. 61% of all SUV fatalities involved rollover."

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I am debating getting either getting a Smart Car or a Ford Excursion. Would anyone like to chime in with their opinion on the advantages of one over the other?

As being a owner of both a fuel efficient car (Honda Prelude) and a SUV (Jeep Cherokee) I can tell you I love driving the Jeep. But on the particle side for my driving habits, which is a lot, It uses a lot more gas, and to keep it going good it costs more too. More oil, more everything actually lol. So you need to think about whats right for your driving and what you can afford. For me 90% of my driving is just driving me only around nothing like trailers or boxes and stuff. So every time I drive my Jeep its a waste. If you live up in mountains, do a lot of mountain driving or carry lots of stuff all the time a SUV is perfect. When the rain stops I'll be fixing my Prelude and switching the insurance and keeping the Jeep just for those camping trips or when I have lots of stuff to move around. After 2 weeks, I love it, but it costs a lot more.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Maybe I didn't make myself very clear - happy animals tend to come from responsible farmers, who are usually not known for burning down rain forests and raising cattle by the million.

Maybe I didn't make myself clear. You'd be more friendly towards the environment if you drove a Range Rover and didn't eat that happy animal raised on a small farm. That's before you factor in burning down rainforests and suchlike.

[Gettheballandwinthegame]

Originally Posted by Athens

As being a owner of both a fuel efficient car (Honda Prelude) and a SUV (Jeep Cherokee) I can tell you I love driving the Jeep. But on the particle side for my driving habits, which is a lot, It uses a lot more gas, and to keep it going good it costs more too. More oil, more everything actually lol. So you need to think about whats right for your driving and what you can afford. For me 90% of my driving is just driving me only around nothing like trailers or boxes and stuff. So every time I drive my Jeep its a waste. If you live up in mountains, do a lot of mountain driving or carry lots of stuff all the time a SUV is perfect. When the rain stops I'll be fixing my Prelude and switching the insurance and keeping the Jeep just for those camping trips or when I have lots of stuff to move around. After 2 weeks, I love it, but it costs a lot more.

I don't understand how someone who has experience vintage lightweight honda handling can ever say they 'love' driving a jeep. Blech.

[Athens]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

According to tests conducted by the Consumer Union (the people from Consumer Reports) this is true. The Consumer Union even got sued for saying this, and won.

They even have a website dedicated to rollover info: http://www.consumersunion.org/rollover/

From their FAQs:

and of those how many didn't have seat belts on? Its all on how you drive it. In Canada the death rate in SUB roll overs is about the same as pickup truck accidents and car accidents. As its the law to buckle up and its enforced pretty good and most people do, the death rate is much much lower for SUVs then in the US.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

My car hasn't even moved since august, so you lose this argument.

Keep up Rob. My SUV's been in the barn since September 2004. You lose.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Gettheballandwinthegame

I don't understand how someone who has experience vintage lightweight honda handling can ever say they 'love' driving a jeep. Blech.

When was the last time you spent any amount of wheel time in a XJ? Right, I remember, you've never driven one, so you wouldn't know.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

So it balances out then, with the preference being on the side of the safe SUV driver. Rob loses control and hits me after his 120 mph tantrums, I stand a better chance of survival in an SUV than in a SMART.

Only if you're the SUV driver. At the potential cost of the life of the car driver.

Originally Posted by Doofy

Even then there's a lot of assuming going on. My bull bar is mounted via soft rubber bushes which give when you push against them, making everything nice and soft and bouncy. I'm pretty sure you'd want to be hit by me than by almost any other vehicle.

Not really. Bullbars are one of the major pedestrian killers. Now, I really don't want this to become a slanging match, but a car fitted with a bullbar has a 50% higher chance of killing a pedestrian in a colission than a car not fitted with a bullbar.

I you want to be hit by car choose one of the new Audis. They fare rather well in tests.