[Kevin]

http://news.scotsman.com/scitech.cfm?id=16902006

AN EXTRAORDINARY "hyperspace" engine that could make interstellar space travel a reality by flying into other dimensions is being investigated by the United States government.

The hypothetical device, which has been outlined in principle but is based on a controversial theory about the fabric of the universe, could potentially allow a spacecraft to travel to Mars in three hours and journey to a star 11 light years away in just 80 days, according to a report in today's New Scientist magazine.

The theoretical engine works by creating an intense magnetic field that, according to ideas first developed by the late scientist Burkhard Heim in the 1950s, would produce a gravitational field and result in thrust for a spacecraft.

The paper on it can be read here:

Light reading...

[Stradlater]

Pretty cool. I wonder if it'll work as well as planned.

[m a d r a]

good to see it's being developed by the US military - i'm sure they'll put it to good ethical use!

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

good to see it's being developed by the US military - i'm sure they'll put it to good ethical use!

What bad use could one use this for?

Shooting people out to space really fast?

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What bad use could one use this for?

i'm sure they'll think of something. there are probably a lot of planets out there with undemocratic regimes which need toppling.

[m a d r a]

[dp]

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

i'm sure they'll think of something. there are probably a lot of planets out there with undemocratic regimes which need toppling.

Thanks for derailing the thread with your political zealotry.

BACK ON TOPIC...

I wonder how people would survive or react to long term space travel.

I mean we have movies in Hollywood about it... but they aren't close to reality.

[analogika]

Originally Posted by Kevin

What bad use could one use this for?

Shooting people out to space really fast?

Don't give me that.

I've seen "Starship Troopers".

(and what madra said.)

[Kevin]

*sigh*

[analogika]

Sorry - forgot the winky smiley.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by analogika

Sorry - forgot the winky smiley.

I realize your post was in jest. I realize his was as well.

But those jests invite serious comments.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Kevin

BACK ON TOPIC...

I wonder how people would survive or react to long term space travel.

I mean we have movies in Hollywood about it... but they aren't close to reality.

I'm not sure of the health risks outside of loss of bone density; that's a huge issue, though, and I remember reading something a year or two ago about how NASA was still working on figuring out what causes calcium loss in space and how to further prevent it.

[m a d r a]

expressing a concern that this is being researched and developed by the military isnae "derailing the thread" - do you think they'd be so keen on the idea if they didnae foresee military potential in it?

i just think it's a shame that so many of our "great scientific leaps forward" as a species [nuclear energy anyone?] only get funded by governments when the military are the ones holding out the begging bowl.

[but it was a semi-joke!]

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by m a d r a

expressing a concern that this is being researched and developed by the military isnae "derailing the thread" - do you think they'd be so keen on the idea if they didnae foresee military potential in it?

i just think it's a shame that so many of our "great scientific leaps forward" as a species [nuclear energy anyone?] only get funded by governments when the military are the ones holding out the begging bowl.

[but it was a semi-joke!]

I just saw this thread as something positive happening in the field of science, and didn't want it turned into a negative political rehash.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I just saw this thread as something positive happening in the field of science, and didn't want it turned into a negative political rehash.

Well, as right you are regarding the positive aspects of such theories, applications abound for military purposes: saving costs in puting payloads in space mean savings in sending payloads (of any types, whether spy stuff, nukes, or troops) at a lower price is always something good to keep the upper hand.

Other political aspects are concerning any upper hands provided to a country on an economical basis: having a monopoly, even for a short time, does not mean a benefit to others (the divide between rich countries and the poor ones is likely to increase with time).

On the other hand, new technologies to expand humanity outside the realm of Earth is good news, considering that there are many secondary and tertiary benefits to everyone; the divide gets larger, but the poorest may see their lives slightly improved.

But we cannot close our eyes to the consequences of research in all aspects of our lives. The discovery of the atom, as well as of the quanta, as beneficiary it has been, also brought the spectrum of nuclear winters, which we should all feel concerned about. That does not mean we should not go ahead with this type of research.

However, and back on topic, NASA has many, many of these theories about space travel. All are under "study" for a long time. The application domain is a different thing. Not too long ago, some reporters published an article about "exotic means of space travel" using worm holes. What people failed to understand is that such wormholes would be microscopic in size, radiations as well as gravity would be so intense, no one would ever survive that travel, and let's not forgot the input of energy necessary to make it happen, something requiring the conversion of a Sun (or 2) to make it happen...

We are going to use reaction mass for a little while I believe. It does not mean that the "Heim Quantum Theory for Space Propulsion Physics" is impossible; it just means that the probability to see applications in space travel is very small, at least at this time.

I also find it difficult that we could create gravity using an intense magnetic field, as these forces are usually closely (afaik) related to a period of the evolution of the universe, pretty much at the very beginning, a few microseconds following the Big Bang. That is a lot of energy, and not much of life (as we know it) then!

[ghporter]

If the drive creates something like gravity (as is implied in the original post's quote from the article) then there would be no bone loss or muscle degeneration which are both caused by lack of gravity.

Pendergast, remember: gravity is the one force that hasn't realy been "unified" with electromagnetics. If Heim's theories play out, this may be a way to do that, leading to a more thorough "theory of everything." I'm looking forward to seeing how this works...

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by ghporter

If the drive creates something like gravity (as is implied in the original post's quote from the article) then there would be no bone loss or muscle degeneration which are both caused by lack of gravity.

Creating gravity as mode of propulsion (or dragging ourselves off the ground by pulling our own boot-straps) does not mean we could provide a gravitational pull appropriate to our survival. I figure that using 1g of force to travel makes the travel confortable, but to reach Mars in 3 days? Hmmm... I am not so sure... BUt then, I am no physicists and quite lazy with math.

Pendergast, remember: gravity is the one force that hasn't realy been "unified" with electromagnetics. If Heim's theories play out, this may be a way to do that, leading to a more thorough "theory of everything."

I do remember. However, to see this happen, as so far, Heilm is providing theoritical discussions only at this time, we still have to wait for the LEP to provide us with factual data giving us a hand in understanding or at least, getting us closer to a TOE and doing a cleanup of most theories we have these days. Not that I understand any of these at this time anyway...

I'm looking forward to seeing how this works...

You are quite optimistic.

[jcadam]

I thought Tesla already figured out how to teleport large objects from place to place (Philadelphia experiment).

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by jcadam

I thought Tesla already figured out how to teleport large objects from place to place (Philadelphia experiment).

Another optimist, I see.

[gumby5647]

Also, if a large enough magnetic field was created, the craft would slip into a different dimension, where the speed of light is faster, allowing incredible speeds to be reached. Switching off the magnetic field would result in the engine reappearing in our current dimension.

this sounds remarkably similar to what Battlestar Galactica does....or at least the effect that they were going for. does anyone remember hearing that on one of those BSG "the Lowdown" or behind the scenes type of deals?

it wasn't that Galactica was all of a sudden zooming away like Enterprise, instead, it was merely jumping into another dimension...only to reappear in another part of space

or something

[invisibleX]

Closer than we thought? Its really not much more than an idea with a little theoretical science behind it.

I believe this is just another low rick-high yield project. Yeah, it probably doesn't work but its worth the funding on the off chance.

[Pendergast]

This is something coming out of New Scientist. I am not sure I would give much creedance to what they publish. This sounds more like a reader or subscriber bait, as they often do.

Anyhow, moving from one dimension to another is highly speculative, and extremely costly in energy, more than we could imagine.

Here is another discussion on the topic, with interesting arguments.

[Chuckit]

How did they find out how fast light travels in other dimensions?

[Arty50]

I wonder if Sam Neill will lead the mission...

[Pendergast]

Flying blind...

at 90 times the speed of light, I wonder if that is safe...

[The Windozer]

Pff... I've had one of those on my lawn mower for years. It sucks, though. Tears the grass up by the roots and even removes the two upper inches of soil.

[Pendergast]

Originally Posted by The Windozer

Pff... I've had one of those on my lawn mower for years. It sucks, though. Tears the grass up by the roots and even removes the two upper inches of soil.

BUmmer

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by Arty50

I wonder if Sam Neill will lead the mission...

Event Horizon freaked me out when I saw it in the theater.

[turtle777]

Yeah, but I heard some aliens are already using this technology and are planning a hyperspace highway right through our solar system...

-t

[OldManMac]

Originally Posted by turtle777

Yeah, but I heard some aliens are already using this technology and are planning a hyperspace highway right through our solar system...

-t

I just heard the traffic report and they're backed up on Interspace 75, for two light years.

[turtle777]

Yeah, and there seems to be a problem with the public display of the plans, too...

-t

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by jcadam

I thought Tesla already figured out how to teleport large objects from place to place (Philadelphia experiment).

[bowwowman]

its all academic, unless they have invented the interial dampners to go with it, to counteract the 18K+ g's you would experience by accellerating to speeds faster than light

[- - e r i k - -]

Space-travel isn't about sending men into space any more. That was just for show back when we space-raced. It will probably be resurrected for tourist-purposes, but scientifically there's no reason for manned space-travel. Expensive, risky and not a lot of value.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I wonder how people would survive or react to long term space travel.

My concerns would be the effect of inter-dimensional travel on humans. One of the theories about how the Navy achieved the invisibility of a ship in the Philadelphia experiment is that the ship was partially shifted into another dimension (if one is to believe that the experiment actually occurred, which really isn't too far fetched if the military is already toying with the idea of hyperspace). If one is to believe some of the tales of the Philadelphia experiment, the better-off participants were left insane.

However, just because the military is looking at something doesn't necessarily mean that we'll ever see it in our life-time, or that it's even possible. NASA has a team considering bending space as a means of space travel (warp drive) and the CIA has employed psychics and remote-viewers in an attempt to gather intelligence. When money is available, there is value in exploring even the most far-fetched concepts.

[Wiskedjak]

Originally Posted by bowwowman

its all academic, unless they have invented the interial dampners to go with it, to counteract the 18K+ g's you would experience by accellerating to speeds faster than light

Hyperspace wouldn't involve traveling at, or even near, the speed of light. Hyperspace is basically cutting holes in the fabric of space to create short-cuts and traveling through those short-cuts at more conventional speeds.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

CIA has employed psychics and remote-viewers in an attempt to gather intelligence. When money is available, there is value in exploring even the most far-fetched concepts.

Likely they are doing it because they are getting results from it.

Not that I agree with it. they will only get half truths.

And if they ARE doing this, they are only asking for trouble.

[euchomai]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Likely they are doing it because they are getting results from it.

Not that I agree with it. they will only get half truths.

And if they ARE doing this, they are only asking for trouble.

Agreed, that part of the spiritual realm isn't to be messed with without consequences.

[wataru]

This is utter science fiction. No details are given at all, not even links to outside sources. The government "expressed interest," the Air Force and he will "talk about it..." And even the guy himself admits that it flies in the face of well established physics. The poor description they do have sounds like complete BS.

In other words, I'll believe it when I see it.

[Face Ache]

Originally Posted by wataru

This is utter science fiction. No details are given at all, not even links to outside sources.

Ah, but over several years of a Republican White House vast resources have been poured into this research. And you know what they found? Rather than bending space/time, it is far easier and more cost effective to bend reality. Rather than travel from Point A to Point B, you simply start at Point B and then invent Point A where you want it to be. Rove's Theory of Relativity says that Point A can never be a constant, so no-one can disprove you started where you say you did! Putting the hype into hyperspace!

Using this exciting breakthrough we could arrive right here any time we choose.

It's science Jim, but not as we know it.

Or something.

[m a d r a]

Originally Posted by Face Ache

Ah, but over several years of a Republican White House vast resources have been poured into this research. And you know what they found? Rather than bending space/time, it is far easier and more cost effective to bend reality. Rather than travel from Point A to Point B, you simply start at Point B and then invent Point A where you want it to be. Rove's Theory of Relativity says that Point A can never be a constant, so no-one can disprove you started where you say you did! Putting the hype into hyperspace!

Using this exciting breakthrough we could arrive right here any time we choose.

It's science Jim, but not as we know it.

Or something.

is this the legendary "distorted reality field" we hear so much about?

[Dakar]

Heh, I thought this was going to be about string theory thanks tot he book of the same name...

I gave the pdf a skim. Unofrtunately I'm not familiar with the concept of graviphotons as it hasn't been mentioned in any of the books I've read in the past few years.

[iLikebeer]

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

My concerns would be the effect of inter-dimensional travel on humans. One of the theories about how the Navy achieved the invisibility of a ship in the Philadelphia experiment is that the ship was partially shifted into another dimension (if one is to believe that the experiment actually occurred, which really isn't too far fetched if the military is already toying with the idea of hyperspace). If one is to believe some of the tales of the Philadelphia experiment, the better-off participants were left insane.

There's another reason to avoid Rev A hardware.

We've understood how fusion works for half a century or more, and we still have a few decades (at least) before we'll have it working at a level that's useful. So your likely power source isn't even available yet. Fusion: "We'll have it in 20 years." Hyperspace (the new fusion): "We'll have it in 100 years." over and over. Maybe one day, maybe not. Depends on how the laws of physics really are.

Although, if we stick with the spirit of the thread, we already have all the needed technology at Area 51.

[forkies]

unaware of what the Philadelphia Experiment referred to, i searched on google & found this wonderful tidbit of a personal account