[Coach]

Recently a teacher in Wisconsin was fired for viewing adult images on his school computer. I know this educator and feel that he might be set up by an adminstration that for political reasons does not get along with this teacher. Therefore, I admit, I'm already biased in this case.

However, can anyone, explain to me if there is anyway to prove the viewing of these images on his computer might be a mistake? The article does mention that the computer was looked at for Pop-Up messages before. Besides the teacher dilberately viewing these images, could something else be going on? Could something like spyware or something else be doing this? It seems strange to me, as the article suggests, that something would pop up for twenty seconds or he would only view the images for 1 minute and seven seconds.

Just fishy. Any ideas?

Here's the article: http://www.jsonline.com/news/ozwash/...p?format=print

[:.MacLone.:]

Do they know anything about unsolicited popups and spyware? You don't need to look at porn sites, porn sites are looking for you without your knowledge. Even on the mac you'll have popups.

[Chuckit]

Pretty fishy. I'm curious how they determined these things. It doesn't appear to say.

[festeringwounds]

America is strange about sexuality. Killing people with guns and having sex with hookers then running them over in a videogame? Fine.
A sex scene in the same videogame? OH NO!!!!!!
Britney Spears acting dirty and Christina looking like she got back from a gangbang, fine.
1 minute of porn at work? OH NO!!!!!!

[UNTeMac]

As a future teacher, I know a little from my classes and from friends who are now teachers about the kind of repercussions the mere suggestion of sexual misconduct on campus can have. He made a ridiculously stupid mistake when he accessed porography at work. He took the risk of being fired and that's all that really matters. Whether it was political or not, he still made a stupid choice as a teacher and his career is essentially ruined for it.

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by UNTeMac

He took the risk of being fired and that's all that really matters. Whether it was political or not, he still made a stupid choice as a teacher and his career is essentially ruined for it.

That's not the question here.

The question is did he *deliberately* access porn at work (in which case the firing would be justified) or is he a victim of overzealous porn marketing and accidentally access it? (in which case there would be no reason to fire him and he would even have a case to sue for damages as well).

[boots]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Pretty fishy. I'm curious how they determined these things. It doesn't appear to say.

Probably by looking at the router logs. That traces it back to the MAC address. Most places are now building MAC databases before you're allowed on the network.

From there, you look at the caches of the local machine (maybe even the history files).

[Chuckit]

Do routers and caches tell how long a file was open on a machine? I thought they could only tell when a page was opened (I mean, you're not constantly transmitting back the site, "Still got it open").

[Millennium]

To actually prove his guilt, you would need to prove three things:

1) His computer accessed the images.
2) At the time that his computer accessed the images, he was at the computer.
3) He deliberately issued the commands which caused the images to be accessed.

The first point is easy to prove: logs and caches handle it nicely. You'd need video surveillance to be absolutely sure of the second point, but unless his account shows evidence of tampering you might be satisfied with logs indicating that his account was logged into the machine and active.

The third point, however, is more of a problem. About the only way you could actually prove that he issued the commands deliberately would be if those commands asked for a password and he gave it. Although many porn sites ask for passwords, others do not, and even those which do often do so with cookies and other things that nobody (except perhaps the administrator of the site itself) ever thinks to log. About the best you could do would be to raid the browser's cookie files, and even this information wouldn't be conclusive.

In any case, although I suppose there might be professions where it's less appropriate to be viewing net-porn at work, there aren't many. Is it really so difficult to wait until getting home?

[boots]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Do routers and caches tell how long a file was open on a machine? I thought they could only tell when a page was opened (I mean, you're not constantly transmitting back the site, "Still got it open").

That would probably come from the local log files for various sessions. And is probably based upon time taken to access the next page.

[IceEnclosure]

I think they should probably start providing fresh hard drives for new employees. I don't want any cookies, caches, log files etc. left over from the last shlub that got fired from the seat that I am now occupying.

[Chuckit]

A log from before you were hired would be pretty easy to argue against.

[shunt]

He admitted to veiwing the sites once or twice...it's a little late for babe in the woods routine.

Matter of fact, why not take the offensive stance..."yeah, I checked out some naked girls...so what, I like looking at the beauty of a woman's body."

Then give reference to the literally millions of paintings/artwork that feature the female form in all it's glory.

A couple making love is the most beatiful natural thing....why be ashamed? etc, etc...this general arguement.

That would be my defense, but it's all one big grey area and if they want him out....well, it's a mob rules society. (at least in the workplace)

[Kevin]

shunt hard to use that argument when viewing www.girlsthatloveitinthepoopshoot.com

[Albert Pujols]

If you're saying that the teacher was framed, there's probably no hope for him. All of the evidence could have been forged, and it was a school board hearing not a court room, so who knows how the evidence was presented to begin with.

Korom said Zellner viewed the images for about 20 seconds at a time, which he described as "a long time when you've got a screen of pornography in front of you."

At one point, Korom stopped the hearing for 20 seconds to depict that time frame.

20 seconds of pr0n.. riiiight.

[shunt]

Originally Posted by Kevin

shunt hard to use that argument when viewing www.girlsthatloveitinthepoopshoot.com

...hey those keys are all like right next to each other, common typing error.

[slugslugslug]

Originally Posted by shunt

He admitted to veiwing the sites once or twice...it's a little late for babe in the woods routine.

Matter of fact, why not take the offensive stance..."yeah, I checked out some naked girls...so what, I like looking at the beauty of a woman's body."

Then give reference to the literally millions of paintings/artwork that feature the female form in all it's glory.

A couple making love is the most beatiful natural thing....why be ashamed? etc, etc...this general arguement...

I think sex and porn are great, but the time to make that argument is not after you've taken a job which undoubtedly has specific policies about use of computing resources. I mean, I think people are generally a little hysterical about the ill effects of sexual thoughts on young minds, but there's still not really a good argument against a ban on porn in the workplace in general (well, unless it's part of the job) and especially at a school.

Anyway, if someone thinks such a policy is unfair, he should either bring it up shortly after being hired (not likely to go over well), follow the rules, or break them with the understanding that getting caught has repercussions.

[shunt]

...yeah sure, policy is policy. That's the brick wall they throw at you when it's time to cut you loose.

In reality though, it's different rules for different people.

My suggestion was an effort to "save face" , if you will. He's already screwed, might as well stand up for himself instead of shuffling around staring down at his shoes while stripped of any dignity. Why?...because that would piss off his bosses more than anything.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

shunt hard to use that argument when viewing www.girlsthatloveitinthepoopshoot.com

I'm gettin' a 404 error, you sure you typed that link right?

[- - e r i k - -]

You mean that server actually EXISTS?

[DigitalEl]

I work for a police department. Once while looking at pictures of police motorcycles in the Netherlands (I know, bizarre), a hardcore porn pop-up jumped front & center onto my screen. I immediately told my supervisor (who was sitting across the room) and e-mailed myself a CYA note with the date & time and exactly what site I was surfing when it happened.

My city's IT folks have Internet Explorer on these machines and we're allowed to surf pretty much at will, as long as the work doesn't suffer. Therefore, it's impossible to completely avoid all the naughty bits.

I've been here just over a year. In that time, one city hall higher-up has been forced to resign for viewing porn on a city-supplied laptop and two officers have been placed on administrative leave for watching porn. Personally, I don't get looking at porn at work. That's something I do when the wife is asleep in the privacy of my study.