[Leia's Left Bun]

When I bought my Dual G5 Tower 2.0 GHz two and a half years ago it cost something around $5500 US with the 20" LCD.

Now in that time I added another 2 gigs of RAM ( 2.5 total) another 160 Gig hard drive.
I do not use the PCI card space and I added Applecare and a mighty mouse.

Now I could have got the high end iMac and replaced it a couple times by now for the same amount of money.

Without rambling on which makes more sense? The intel iMac are the first iMac's that are close to equal in performance but it doesn't hold as much RAM (I could also use external drives).

I don't regret my G5 at all, I love it. 3 years ago the iMac's were not up to par in performance or RAM capacity. For me I don't think I could have used an iMac for the graphic design I do. But when I think I could have had 3 iMac's by now AND sold the older ones it makes me think if the difference is speed is worth it.

What do you think? Anyone want to add up numbers?

[phantomdragonz]

When I have questions like this I look at the options I had when I got my g4....

I have a sawtooth g4... one of the older versions... it came with a 400Mhz proc and a 20gig drive, I have since upgraded the proc to a 1ghz version and a 60gig drive (I have a 250gig external that i never use) I have used this machine for a LONG time, and it has treated me really well...

it was either the g4... or a clamshell ibook...

I rest my case... go big or go home...



** I know the imac is not a portable, but with the ability to upgrade and expand... it's worth it to get what you really want...**

Zach

[Leia's Left Bun]

But you haven't shown the price differences or taken into account replacing it every year.

[f1000]

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...t=stop+telling

[hart]

I'm in the buy expensive, keep for a long time school. I've regretted when I didn't. My first computer was a B&W G3 which was the most I could afford at the time. It's still plugging along, heavily upgraded, as a kids' computer. My first laptop was a keylime toilet seat special edition ibook and it still has it's uses but my next laptop was a top-of-the-line powerBook because I was quickly aware of the ibook's shortcomings.

The only thing that strikes me as a bit of overkill was the purchase of the blue & white 15" flat panel display all those years ago. I think with shipping and tax it ended up costing $1300 or $1400. It's still working fine but a 15" LCD is what, about $300 now? LCDs and memory are preposterously cheap now compared to five years ago.

On the other hand, we inherited my mother's emac with it's pathetic graphics abilities and it gets to be a surfing, homework and movies machine for the kids. It certainly isn't going to be playing any games or doing much photoshop work. It was good as a freeby but I'd never have actually bought one.

In any case, I hate waste and don't like to give things up so the better it is to start the less I have to agonize. My purchasing plan is the fastest laptop and desktop are mine and the slower ones get pushed down the line to the kids. Of course, it helps to have 3 kids fighting for computer time to justify all these machines. We look like a computer lab around here.

[Leia's Left Bun]

Also the longer you keep it the value tanks and you end up throwing it away.

[f1000]

I propose that one could create an algorithm that considered productivity of an average computer at time versus the financial opportunity cost of the same computer at time (t).

The productivity curve would need to be adjusted to the application (career). Someone who's an accountant, for example, might not realize the same improvements in productivity per advance in technology as someone who's doing finite element analysis. It's also easier to plot this productivity curve over time instead of some CPU related metric, such as clock speed, because such metrics don't accurately convey the overall productivity gains (or losses) due to improvements in technology.

The financial cost curve is probably easier to calculate. Computers depreciate fast, and it's relatively simple to figure out what an equivalent investment would've been worth if it had been left in, say, the NASDAQ.

[festeringwounds]

Originally Posted by Leia's Left Bun

Also the longer you keep it the value tanks and you end up throwing it away.

I say buy used, first and foremost. Buy the fastest used thing you can afford, and in about 1 year sell it and buy the fastest used thing you can afford. Keep going with that. If you keep it, the value tanks. I remember when I could have sold my 1st gen iMac for $6-700, but I didn't because I liked it too much. Now it's worth about ... $200? If that? Basically, if you get something decent, sell it before it gets outdated and you only have to spend a few hundred to get something WAY nicer.

[f1000]

From my first post in that link I provided:

Due to competitive pressures, computer manufacturers usually have to provide more bang for the buck on lower end models than on higher end ones. That�s why a $3,000 PowerMac isn't going to be 6x faster than a $500 Mac Mini.

So, just how much faster is a $4,100 Quad 2.5GHz PowerMac G5 with 20" display to a $1,700 20" Intel iMac? Is it more than double the speed?

[Doofy]

"Expensive but lasts" works for me.

[Dork.]

I think it depends on two things:

1) What do you need to do with the computer right now? It makes no sense to buy a low-end Mac if you think you're going to need the additional speed, RAM, or expandability now.

2) How easy will it be to unload your computer a year from now? It's easy to say you're going to sell your computer every year and out the money toward a new one, but unless you've got good feedback on eBay or a reliable set of buyers through another outlet, you're not going to realize as much as you think from the sale.

[besson3c]

Miyagi say buy good computer with strong roots, like bonzai tree

[ReggieX]

Buy what I can afford at the time, keep until I think it's worth replacing. NE VER get the most expensive model. Hell, the last 2 Macs I bought were the lowest-end models at the time (Sawtooth 400MHz, Dual 2.0 G5). The Sawtooth has been upgraded here and there, going from 400MHz, 10GB drive, 256 RAM and Rage 128 to 900MHz, couple of 120GB drives, 1GB RAM and a Radeon 8500, not to mention the TV and sound cards that are in there. It's coming up on 6 years old and could still do 90% of what I want out a home machine.

I doubt there will be nearly as many upgrade options for the G5, but I'll see what happens.

It 100% on what YOU are using your computers for. There's no magic formula, including f1000's. I buy cheap and keep for ages!

[Leia's Left Bun]

Honestly the first iMac I could use for they type of work I do was the iMac G5 and the 2 gig RAM limit isn't so hot. I don't care about the video card or PCI slots.

[wdlove]

I would rather pay for something that will last. Purchased my G4 450 dual in September 2000 and it still serves me very well.

[production_coordinator]

My rules for buying:
- I never buy the most expensive
- I never buy computers with monitors attached (iMac/eMac).
- I never buy the least expensive
- I never buy add ons (larger HD, more RAM, etc.) from Apple.
- I never buy a revision A
- I never pay for express shipping (or shipping in general)
- I always buy roughly one month after an upgrade

[Leia's Left Bun]

Honestly I've never had bad luck with Rev A's.

[Kenneth]

Interesting topic.

Somehow, I tend to go for the mid-range.

My current setup;
Dual PowerMac G4 1.25Ghz (FW800) and 17" Studio Display (ADC)

I bought it on the day I turned 23. Last check, the above setup is 30 days shy of my AppleCare plan. In the past 3 years, I constantly changing hard drives, added DVD burners, TV card, USB 2.0 PCI card, AirPort Extreme, 3x512MB RAMs, D-Link BT adapter, as well as upgrading to the latest version of Mac OS X, iLife and iWork.

I still love it even thought I bought an 12" iBook G4 (1.33Ghz) as a secondary Mac. Meanwhile, the dual G4 did go back for a repair once. The stock combo drive refused to read CD and DVD, malfunctioning keyboard and mouse. Otherwise, the machine is rock solid.

Yesterday, I went to the local AppleStore and tried out the new iMac for the first time. It just blew me away. The 20" display is good and the whole unit is fast. I thought about considering the iMac once again. I used to own the bondi iMac and a couple G3 iMacs.

[Kerrigan]

If you try and apply this formula to past Apple products it becomes kind of tricky. I say this because the performance of G4 based computers did not improve noticeably (to the typical user) between around 2001-2004.

Also apple did not have a headless low cost Mac until the mini, so you would have been forced to buy a new flat panel monitor ever year, as included in the cost of the iMac.

Thankfully the switch to intel and the availability of a low cost headless Mac will make the cost/benefit analysis much more transparent, which is something I think Apple has been deliberately trying to avoid until now.

[tooki]

I ran the numbers a while back and figured out that for how I buy (most bang for buck, which tends to be low-mid end configuration of the high-end series), my computing (not including accessories) costs about $700/yr. The weird thing is that for how Apple gear tends to depreciate -- rather slowly for computers -- it doesn't really make much of a difference whether I upgrade frequently or not, the yearly cost ends up the same. I've ended up sticking with my gear for a long time because of the hassle of selling.

tooki

[macforray]

Never buy at the very top of the high end as the price is at a premium. I like to buy at mid high end at a price I can afford and keep as long as possible. I seldom get rid of any of my computers as I have seven kids to pass them on to. It is more about "cost of ownership" than purchase price. Although I have always kept any PC I owned, I only would personally use one for three years. Now that I own my first Mac, and bought on the "low end" (Mac Mini) just to get comfortable with the hardware and OSX, it is likely that I will pass it down and get that now desired iMac within 12 - 15 months of the mini purchase. That will be this fall, and barring any financial hardship, I will have one (unless something better comes along).

Buy what you can afford, at the best found price, when you need to buy it. If it doesn't have everything you need or want due to affordability, make sure you factor any planned future upgrades into the cost of ownership. Then enjoy and be productive.

[Kevin]

When the G5s came out, I bought a high end G4 tower for a grand. It will last me another year or so. When the Intel towers come out, I will be ready to get a new tower.

Maybe I will wait till the 2nd revisions.

[Y3a]

When the previous system really begins to suck when compared to the newest stuff, I replace it with 1 notch down from the very bestest. I got a 7200/90 in '96 which REALLY SUCKED by 2000. I replaced it with a G4-AGP 400. I packed it with hard drives and RAM from after market sources. In 2004 I replaced it with a dual 2Gig G5. I packed it full or RAM and hard drives and dumped the horrid glass monitor for a 20" Cinema Display. I turned the older G4 into a Server with three 250 Gig drives off an ATA133 PCI bus card. I also added a second ethernet card too. I use Remote Desktop to administer it so I don't have to put the giant monitor anyplace. perhaps in 2009 when Apple offers a 10 gig QUAD PROCESSOR with 48 gig of RAM and 20 terabytes of hard drive I'll get one.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by Doofy

"Expensive but lasts" works for me.

Exactly. I can't afford cheap.

[ajprice]

Buy the best you can and make it last.

I prefer towers over all in ones, they have the card slots etc to add stuff to later on, and I like to keep a computer until the new ones are a one or a few generations of processor ahead. So at the moment I don't see any G4 mac mini or G4 laptop as an upgrade, I'd go for at least a G5 and probably an intel.

My first mac was a Performa 6400 in 1996. By the time I sold it in 2001 it had USB ports, and a bigger hard drive, and nearly had a graphics upgrade (it was a Formac 8Mb card but for some reason it didn't like the monitor and I had funky stuff all over the screen, it went back). My current mac (in the sig) was bought in 2001, it now has USB 2, wireless network, 2 hard drives, 16x DL DVD).
I will have a new mac in the next 12 months, probably in 6-12 months time after the Intel Powermacs are out, on the other hand i fancy a laptop, hmmmmm.

At the time you buy it, you think the computer is great and wonder why you got the expansion of a tower, because there is nothing else to add to it. But with both macs over the time I have had them, things have been released or become common use (bluetooth, USB2, WiFi, faster DVD-R drives).

[robfarri]

for what its worth, I bought my iBook 1.2ghz around July last year. I used the apple store upgrade to get a 60GB HD, then maxed out the RAM with 1GB from Crucial. Because I used student discount on the apple store I saved about £100 ($180) on the original price so could afford the upgrade.

For what I use it for (usual office stuff, few low demand games) I think its an excellent machine I can't imagine needing to upgrade anytime soon. Although I may be tempted if the new intel iBook is amazing!

I'm a firm believer that with technology you should buy the maximum that you can afford. Whether that is a budget machine like the iBook or a powerbook. With Apple desktops thing are a little different due to the obvious contrast in upgradability between imacs and powermacs. With my machines, I tend to just upgrade as much as I can to within a sensible limit, then when things start to get REALLY slow do the big purchase

[starman]

It depends on the device.

I also bought a Dual 2.0 G5. I love it to death. I haven't even thought about replacing it with a better PPC, even the quad machines.

I spent a lot on it and I got a lot of use out of it. I feel that I spent my money wisely. The same goes for my PC. I spent a lot of money on what was then the fastest CPU out there - 2.53 GHz. I'm just now thinking about upgrading it.

It's a tough call because you never know what's coming. Personally, I prefer dropping the money and getting years of use out of something. Another example is my cell phone. I dropped $400 on a SE w800i and I love the thing to death because there isn't anything it DOESN'T do. If you're CONFIDENT that what you're buying will stay for a long time, go for it.

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by Leia's Left Bun

Honestly the first iMac I could use for they type of work I do was the iMac G5 and the 2 gig RAM limit isn't so hot. I don't care about the video card or PCI slots.

You should care about the video card, considering that Apple's constantly tweaking OS X to use the GPUs more and more. The best example is Quartz Extreme: even with the same processor, adding a more capable video card to my G4 made the OS far more responsive, thus allowing me to get more work done. If you're using your machine to do graphics and such, you'll care, trust me.

[finboy]

Originally Posted by Leia's Left Bun

Also the longer you keep it the value tanks and you end up throwing it away.

Value depends on what you can do with it. I kept my Blueberry ibook long enough that my linksys router lets it on the Web in OS 9.1 -- I use it to surf every day.

Macs have great longevity because they are more useful, longer. My approach is to use it as long as I can.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by finboy

Value depends on what you can do with it. I kept my Blueberry ibook long enough that my linksys router lets it on the Web in OS 9.1 -- I use it to surf every day.

Macs have great longevity because they are more useful, longer. My approach is to use it as long as I can.

I used to run OS X on my tangerine iBook (at 800 x 600)

Do you know that you can run 10.4 on your machine using XPostFacto? I've used XPostFacto on other machines, it seems to work quite well. As long as you have enough RAM in the iBook, you should be able to surf the web and do email and other basic functions just fine on the iBook. You'd also benefit from a stable environment

[Leia's Left Bun]

Originally Posted by ReggieX

You should care about the video card, considering that Apple's constantly tweaking OS X to use the GPUs more and more. The best example is Quartz Extreme: even with the same processor, adding a more capable video card to my G4 made the OS far more responsive, thus allowing me to get more work done. If you're using your machine to do graphics and such, you'll care, trust me.

I don't see how. Photoshop doesn't use the video card much at all and the only core graphics app I would use is Aperture and it is still piss slow with Core Graphics on a dual G5.

For the type of work I do it is all about dual hard drives (one as a scratch) and a ton of RAM.

[Monique]

I think it depends on you. For me even in electronics I prefer to buy something of good quality and keep it for a long time. Like my tv is not flat screen and fashion concious but it is a Sony wega and good quality so I will probably be able to keep it for 10 years. My old tv was Hitachi and kept it for over 15 years. For clothes I have the same principle prefer quality; I have some clothes that are about 10 years old and still are very nice. And for some people they have to change their warobe every year.

[ort888]

I really think it depends on what you use it for. If you do a lot of high-end stuff, I think your best bet is buying the low-end of the Powermac line every two years or so. Purchase right after the line gets upgraded and sell the old one on ebay. You can usually fetch pretty good money on a two year old powermac.

If you are a home user who doesn't need a lot of power, you're better off buying the cheapest computer you can get and hanging on to it for as long as you can. That's my opinion anyway.

I use a $999 iBook at home and it's the only computer I own. It works great for what I need it for. I used to get suckered into thinking I needed to stay on top of the latest and greatest stuff, but I soon realized that it was really a sucker-bet. At home I spend 95% of my time surfing the web and the other 5% doing word processing or looking at pics and movies. Or sorting my music. I don't need a powerhouse for any of those things.