[jesusbristow]

You don't need a widget that keeps you up to date on lives lost in the Iraq war. Or the number of wounded. You only need Jesus. Yes, M*******e is at it again:

http://www.macliberals.com/wordpress/?p=384

Are they cheap publicity stunts, or is King M*******e a freakin loon?

You make the call.

[ort888]

I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish with that widget.

It's a little creepy. A lot of people seem to enjoy it when thing in Iraq get worse, because it somehow makes them feel better about their opinions. It would seem to me that this widget would just appeal to people like that. The kind of people who are happy when they learn that 15 marines died in a chopper crash because it makes them a little righter and Bush a little worse.

[Person Man]

Who. Cares.

[TETENAL]

It's good that they are not adding junk widgets to their database. The service loses usefulness when it is overwhelmed with junk software.

[Salty]

Well I respect that choice.

[Eug Wanker]

Are they cheap publicity stunts, or is King MacUpdate a freakin loon?

The second one.

[jesusbristow]

Originally Posted by ort888

I don't understand what they are trying to accomplish with that widget.

It's a little creepy. A lot of people seem to enjoy it when thing in Iraq get worse, because it somehow makes them feel better about their opinions. It would seem to me that this widget would just appeal to people like that. The kind of people who are happy when they learn that 15 marines died in a chopper crash because it makes them a little righter and Bush a little worse.

Yes. It reminds of those people who delighted in seeing pictures of Saddam's sons with their faces bashed in. Maybe someone could make them a dead Iraqi widget. Oh wait. There are no dead Iraqis. The U S of Christ doesn't kill people. It only protects oil. I mean freedom.

[Maflynn]

I think that widget is offensive and I commend macupdate for not having it.

It has nothing to do about censorship but rather good taste. Why should someone continue to watch the numbers increase its sick.

[Millennium]

What government is forcing these widgets to not be listed? Without force of law, there is no valid claim of 'censorship'.

[SeSawaya]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I think that widget is offensive and I commend macupdate for not having it.

It has nothing to do about censorship but rather good taste. Why should someone continue to watch the numbers increase its sick.

Offensive? So truth is Offensive? Get your head out of the sand (or wherever it is)

[SeSawaya]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

I think that widget is offensive and I commend macupdate for not having it.

It has nothing to do about censorship but rather good taste. Why should someone continue to watch the numbers increase its sick.

Offensive? So truth is Offensive? Get your head out of the sand (or wherever it is)

[SeSawaya]

hic up???

[SeSawaya]

hic up

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Maflynn

Why should someone continue to watch the numbers increase its sick.

I agree. It sickens me every time they increase.

(send it to Pol/War?)

[Chuckit]

If somebody wants to prove this is political, go on MacUpdate and find another counter widget. Otherwise, it looks like they were straightforward in saying they don't accept such widgets. The author of the article apparently couldn't do it.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

If somebody wants to prove this is political, go on MacUpdate and find another counter widget. Otherwise, it looks like they were straightforward in saying they don't accept such widgets. The author of the article apparently couldn't do it.

Well, for the record, I agree with those who say this widget is in poor taste, I wouldn't use it, and I can kind of see why MacUpdate would not want to post it. However, I did get curious and decide to look up whether MacUpdate has any countdown widgets, and since it bugs me when people contradict themselves, I have to post this.

Originally Posted by MacUpdate

One type of widget we feel is lame are the countdown widgets — 100 days until Christmas! — The same goes for counter widgets. We don’t want them on our site, no matter what they count.

Not just a countdown widget, but a Christmas countdown, no less

[ReggieX]

Originally Posted by Millennium

What government is forcing these widgets to not be listed? Without force of law, there is no valid claim of 'censorship'.

You're usually more on the ball than that, Millennium. Censorship is not the exclusive domain of goverments, and you should know that.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by jesusbristow

You only need Jesus.

Seconded.

-t

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by SeSawaya

Offensive? So truth is Offensive? Get your head out of the sand (or wherever it is)

Yes, the truth can be offensive. For instance, saying "I'd like to piss on Ghandi's corpse" would be offensive even if you actually wanted to do so.

[RAILhead]

[RAILhead]

freaking database....

[DanMacMan]

I know the guy that runs Mac Update, I went to college with him and we were in the same bible study. I havent been in contact with him in a couple years now, so I cant say with any certainty why or why not he hasn't posted those widgets. But I know he is a decent fella. To me it comes down to this, its his website so he controls what goes on it. Deal with it.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by ReggieX

You're usually more on the ball than that, Millennium. Censorship is not the exclusive domain of goverments, and you should know that.

Actually, I'd assert otherwise. What other entity has the power to truly silence any given point of view? Without that power, any "censorship" such an entity might attempt is meaningless, because it can be circumvented without all that much trouble.

[jesusbristow]

Originally Posted by DanMacMan

I know the guy that runs Mac Update, I went to college with him and we were in the same bible study. I havent been in contact with him in a couple years now, so I cant say with any certainty why or why not he hasn't posted those widgets. But I know he is a decent fella. To me it comes down to this, its his website so he controls what goes on it. Deal with it.

He does explain it. His reasoning blows. As someone pointed out above, he even has the very Xmas widget that it allegedly verbotten on his site. If he's studied the Bible, there's a thing about truth in there. If you're a student of the Bible, you should be encouraging him to tell it.

He's apparently a religious zealot with strong political views. That's fine, but he should be honest about them. Since he isn't, MacLiberals is. Deal with it.

[jesusbristow]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Well, for the record, I agree with those who say this widget is in poor taste, I wouldn't use it, and I can kind of see why MacUpdate would not want to post it. However, I did get curious and decide to look up whether MacUpdate has any countdown widgets, and since it bugs me when people contradict themselves, I have to post this.


Not just a countdown widget, but a Christmas countdown, no less

LOL Charles. I'm the type that gives more the benefit of a doubt.

One thing, though: you say it is in poor taste to have a death/wounded count as a widget. Perhaps. But that sort of implies it is bad taste to check websites with such statistics now and again. Is that what you're saying? Also, buying into the admin's view, is it in bad taste to expect the media to cover American deaths in the Iraqi war?

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by DanMacMan

To me it comes down to this, its his website so he controls what goes on it. Deal with it.

We aren't any more obligated to "deal with it" than he is. He is free to do what he wants with his Web site. People who oppose what he does with his Web site are free to yell at him, boycott his site, tell people how rotten they think he is and generally try to destroy MacUpdate. Everybody is free to be a dick, but I hope people will resist taking this option — including him.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Not just a countdown widget, but a Christmas countdown, no less

Link doesn't work.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by jesusbristow

LOL Charles. I'm the type that gives more the benefit of a doubt.

One thing, though: you say it is in poor taste to have a death/wounded count as a widget. Perhaps. But that sort of implies it is bad taste to check websites with such statistics now and again. Is that what you're saying? Also, buying into the admin's view, is it in bad taste to expect the media to cover American deaths in the Iraqi war?

Well, I dunno. Having something in your Dashboard implies that it's a website you would want to check very frequently, and to me, that seems a little... strange.

In any event, MacUpdate is privately owned, and the owners are free to post, or not post, whatever they want on the site (although I do wish they would just say they didn't post it because it was in bad taste instead of making apparently false claims about not posting countdown widgets).

[jjlannoo]

Political stuff aside. On its own. I think the widget is a nice idea and installed it. How is it in bad taste to know the number of your fallen Countrymen?

[Chuckit]

Guess somebody pointed it out to him.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Link doesn't work.

Hmm, it seems someone from MacUpdate reads this thread.

Here's the widget that link used to point to:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/dashb...siscoming.html

Here's a couple more countdown widgets on MacUpdate - get them while they last...

http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/18715
http://www.macupdate.com/info.php/id/18465

[euchomai]

Originally Posted by SeSawaya

hic up

Yes truth is very offensive sometimes, I don't understand your comment (I comprehend it, it just isn't logical). I don't need to keep a Rape Countdown on my computer and that is offensive and true too.

Anyone that wants this widget isn't doing it to "keep up" with fallen Americans. It is to rub it in the face of others. I respect your right to have the widget and any website that decides to not have it.

[Millennium]

Originally Posted by SeSawaya

Offensive? So truth is Offensive? Get your head out of the sand (or wherever it is)

When you oversimplify a complex political issue to the point of presenting it as a pair of numbers, then yes, it is offensive. No matter how accurate those numbers may be, they are far from an honest presentation of the whole story. And then there's the whole issue of spreading those numbers as a meme, proselytizing as if two numbers alone could ever truly express a rish and complex political belief system.

Accurate? Perhaps. Truth? I don't think so. It's got a long way to go before it deserves that name. I am not saying that there aren't valid arguments against the war in Iraq; there are, and they're numerous and powerful. But there are arguments for the other side as well, and they are not so weak as to be refutable by nothing more than a pair of numbers.

[Kevin]

MacLiberals, making something out of nothing.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Millennium

When you oversimplify a complex political issue to the point of presenting it as a pair of numbers, then yes, it is offensive. No matter how accurate those numbers may be, they are far from an honest presentation of the whole story. And then there's the whole issue of spreading those numbers as a meme, proselytizing as if two numbers alone could ever truly express a rish and complex political belief system.

Accurate? Perhaps. Truth? I don't think so. It's got a long way to go before it deserves that name. I am not saying that there aren't valid arguments against the war in Iraq; there are, and they're numerous and powerful. But there are arguments for the other side as well, and they are not so weak as to be refutable by nothing more than a pair of numbers.

Beyond that, a dead people counter is just pretty offensive.

[jesusbristow]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Beyond that, a dead people counter is just pretty offensive.

Is the Vietnam memorial offensive?

[euchomai]

Originally Posted by jesusbristow

Is the Vietnam memorial offensive?

Come on, that is just ridiculous! Honestly, can you not see the difference? One is respect and honor (the wall if you were wondering), and the other is just political propaganda.

[Mister Elf]

The Vietnam memorial is made for remembrance. A widget similar to it would be names scrolling on the widget itself...no numbers or anything. This is just disgusting.

[jjlannoo]

Originally Posted by euchomai

Y
Anyone that wants this widget isn't doing it to "keep up" with fallen Americans. It is to rub it in the face of others. I respect your right to have the widget and any website that decides to not have it.

Thats so not true, If I went to work and mentioned it shot up again I'm not rubbing it in anyones face. I'm pointing out we lost more men. Not everyone is politically motivated. People should be aware of the cost. You would be surprised how many don't even know the number lost where I work.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by jjlannoo

You would be surprised how many don't even know the number lost where I work.

Why should they?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by jjlannoo

You would be surprised how many don't even know the number lost where I work.

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Why should they?

Umm, because we are at war and our government has sent soldiers into harm's way in two different countries to fight the War on Terror and to preserve our "blessed way of life". Generally a populace keeps up with the current military events when they are at war. One of those events to keep up with is the general number of troops we are losing in the war. I certainly don't think jjlannoo was expecting people to know an exact number but I would hope they can make a fairly accurate guess.

What bothers me about your question is the presumption that a population disconnected from a War being fought on their behalf is somehow not unusual. What bothers me is that you think it would not seem odd for the citizens of a country at war to not be concerned about the status/progress of the war. Am I reading your post wrong? Do you really think a populace's indifference to the number of their soldiers being killed in a war is normal? Is that kind of indifference ever normal?

[euchomai]

Originally Posted by jjlannoo

Thats so not true, If I went to work and mentioned it shot up again I'm not rubbing it in anyones face. I'm pointing out we lost more men. Not everyone is politically motivated. People should be aware of the cost. You would be surprised how many don't even know the number lost where I work.

You are your work's news anchor?

Just kidding, I know what you mean there. I just think that this widget is politically motivated and not aimed at people like you.

[Spliffdaddy]

Anyone know where I can find an abortion counter widget?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Anyone know where I can find an abortion counter widget?

Don't know but I hope it would have a vacuum as part of its logo. It seems fitting.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Umm, because we are at war and our government has sent soldiers into harm's way in two different countries to fight the War on Terror and to preserve our "blessed way of life". Generally a populace keeps up with the current military events when they are at war. One of those events to keep up with is the general number of troops we are losing in the war. I certainly don't think jjlannoo was expecting people to know an exact number but I would hope they can make a fairly accurate guess.

What bothers me about your question is the presumption that a population disconnected from a War being fought on their behalf is somehow not unusual. What bothers me is that you think it would not seem odd for the citizens of a country at war to not be concerned about the status/progress of the war. Am I reading your post wrong? Do you really think a populace's indifference to the number of their soldiers being killed in a war is normal? Is that kind of indifference ever normal?

Quick, off the top of your head, no Google allowed: How many US soldiers died in Afghanistan?

If you don't know it, then you are a hypocrite.

Personally, I don't think it's important to know whether the Iraq death toll is 1000, 2000, or 3000. What difference does it make? All three of those numbers basically get read as "a lot" by my brain. ̦People are dying, I don't see what difference the exact number makes.

But then again, I'm a moron when it comes to political things, so maybe it's just me. Speaking of which, shouldn't this thread be in the Political Lounge?

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Quick, off the top of your head, no Google allowed: How many US soldiers died in Afghanistan?

If you don't know it, then you are a hypocrite.

Personally, I don't think it's important to know whether the Iraq death toll is 1000, 2000, or 3000. What difference does it make? All three of those numbers basically get read as "a lot" by my brain. ̦People are dying, I don't see what difference the exact number makes.

But then again, I'm a moron when it comes to political things, so maybe it's just me. Speaking of which, shouldn't this thread be in the Political Lounge?

Approximately 250 for Afghanstan (It's been a while since it was prominently in the news).
Approximately 2500 for Iraq.

Like I said, it's not about an exact number. It's about a populace being engaged enough in their civic life to know that soldiers are dying on their behalf and having some basic awareness and recognition of that fact.

You asked "why should they" know how many troops have died? My reply, because they are dying for them. If a citizen can't care enough to stay current with the news involving their nation at war, maybe they ought to let their government know that they don't really care all that much about the war. Then maybe the government could re-evaluate its stance on the war and possibly bring troops home which would lead to less dead troops in combat.

If people want to support the war they need to "do more than move lips and warm seats".

[Doofy]

I really wanted a counter widget which increments every time a liberal is wrong about something or other. But then I realised that I'm not a big fan of sideways scrolling and Apple doesn't make a 72' screen.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

You asked "why should they" know how many troops have died? My reply, because they are dying for them.

And thus having a running ticker of the numbers is important? Jesus, if counting corpses is what respect has become, our culture deserves to die. The precise number is not what matters here. We know a lot of people are dying. Being able to whip out the number on demand doesn't shed any light on any important question. It just reduces these people's sacrifices to a statistic. Every life is important. The war doesn't become more or less just after the 511th death.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

And thus having a running ticker of the numbers is important? Jesus, if counting corpses is what respect has become, our culture deserves to die. The precise number is not what matters here. We know a lot of people are dying. Being able to whip out the number on demand doesn't shed any light on any important question. It just reduces these people's sacrifices to a statistic. Every life is important. The war doesn't become more or less just after the 511th death.

Did you happen to read the paragraph above the one you are quoting? In case you didn't here it is again.

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Like I said, it's not about an exact number. It's about a populace being engaged enough in their civic life to know that soldiers are dying on their behalf and having some basic awareness and recognition of that fact.

Get it? I don't care if people don't know the exact number. But people who don't have any clue about the number, like what jjlannoo was talking about in his post, do bother me. Because that tells me there are people out there who are indifferent to the fact that we are at war.

[Salty]

What people don't realize is that MacUpdate is is not required to help you assert your right to free speech. Simply because I have the right of free speech does not mean that I can go to a concert and be angry at the lead vocalist for not willingly handing me his mic in the middle of their set.