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milhous · Jan 27, 2006, 07:38 PM

After returning home from an extraordinarly good day of work, I realize that my 30gb iBook hard drive is completely toast. The drive will neither boot nor detect and mount from the OS X cd. The hard drive makes the most peculiar sounds--mostly humming and buzzing from the drive.

* 3 years worth of archived e-mails and instant messages are all gone.
* Financial records are all gone.
* Schoolwork from last year is all gone.
* Address Book with AIM contacts are all gone.
* Username and Passwords ranging from online banking to membership rewards programs are all gone.
* All my iPhotos taken over the years are all gone.

I contacted DriveSavers today and was quoted a price of $500-$2700 for their economy service (5-7days). Assuming that a complete home directory recovery was possible, I was told it would cost anywhere from $1700-$2400. An unsuccessful attempt at recovering the data would cost $200 at the minimum.

I don't have this kind of money on hand so alternatively, I have decided to accept the loss, start over, rebuild from scratch, and make sure that if something like this happens again that I'm ready to mitigate the risk). Once the iBook is back in operation, I will buy a backup solution (either an external hard drive or tape backup) and backup software (Retrospect or similar).

Please folks, sit back and think for a minute on what's on your computer and how you would feel if everything on there suddenly disappeared tomorrow. Are you prepared to start over again? Would you be prepared to pay a premium for drive recovery?

For everything that's important to you on your computer, I ask of you, please backup!

Albert Pujols · Jan 27, 2006, 08:06 PM

This might sound crazy, but have you tried putting your HD in the freezer? My hard drive started making clicking noises one day.. the hard drive failed 20 minutes after I first started hearing the noises. I saw something on The Screensavers way back about temporarily fixing your HD if you put it in the freezer for a few hours. I tried it and it worked, I could view all my files. It only worked for half an hour though but that was more than enough time to copy the important files. I'd say give it a try if you're desperate.

Tomchu · 08:39 PM

Going by the above suggestion, I'll extend that and say try putting it in the freezer, but SEAL it in a Ziploc bag first! You don't want condensation all over the heads/platters once you take it out of the freezer and into room-temperature air.

leehotti · Jan 27, 2006, 08:17 PM

Apply a vtec sticker.

cjrivera · Jan 27, 2006, 08:18 PM

Another thing to try (and I doubt it works sincce it didn't get rrecognized from the OS X CD boot) is to connect it to another Mac via firewire and try putting it in Target mode. It's another cheap last ditch effort before you totally give up.

Again, I doubt if it works, but it can't hurt to try....

Good luck

Albert Pujols · Jan 27, 2006, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Tomchu

Going by the above suggestion, I'll extend that and say try putting it in the freezer, but SEAL it in a Ziploc bag first! You don't want condenstation all over the heads/platters once you take it out of the freezer and into room-temperature air.

yes definitely...

Doofy · Jan 27, 2006, 08:19 PM

Originally Posted by milhous

Once the iBook is back in operation, I will buy a backup solution (either an external hard drive or tape backup) and backup software (Retrospect or similar).

If you buy a LaCie external drive, the software which comes with it (SilverKeeper) will probably do an adequate job of backing up your important stuff.

Cody Dawg · Jan 27, 2006, 08:20 PM

I've heard the freezer thing also.

But getting the hard drive out of the iBook is HELL.

I know because I upgraded an iBook for my son for a Christmas gift (swapped 10gb that was grinding and whining for new 80GB) and it was pure unadulterated torture. It's a 2-hour job for the uninitiated and a 1 hour job for experienced people.

Maybe it's worth the risk though?

Good luck.

d4nth3m4n · Jan 27, 2006, 08:34 PM

cody, what does he have to lose?

Tomchu · Jan 27, 2006, 08:44 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I've heard the freezer thing also.

But getting the hard drive out of the iBook is HELL.

I know because I upgraded an iBook for my son for a Christmas gift (swapped 10gb that was grinding and whining for new 80GB) and it was pure unadulterated torture. It's a 2-hour job for the uninitiated and a 1 hour job for experienced people.

Maybe it's worth the risk though?

Good luck.

Ugh, tell me about it.

I took my iBook G4 completely apart for curiousity's sake, and as I was carefully disconnecting the power button's tiny little plug from the motherboard, I tore the whole socket off. It was very poorly attached. It was a bitch to solder that thing back on, even with a micro soldering iron.

Since then, I've had to take it apart for various reasons twice more. It's easier after you do it once, but you still need a very good-quality set of Torx and regular screwdrivers, and should place the screws on your desk, positioned as they were in the laptop -- or you WILL screw things up.

TETENAL · Jan 27, 2006, 08:49 PM

Then just freeze the whole iBook.

Cody Dawg · Jan 27, 2006, 08:54 PM

Freeze the whole iBook?

I wouldn't. But that's just me.

Tomchu: You're exactly right about being careful and lining the screws up in order to remember them.

I had ONE tiny little screw mixed up with another one (the one for the front latch) and it wouldn't start up. Darned thing knew that ONE SCREW was incorrect and it wouldn't boot up!

Anyway, good luck!

Mastrap · Jan 27, 2006, 09:09 PM

First time I took an iBook apart I ended up with seven leftover screws. Never made a difference and is still working as a music server today.

f1000 · Jan 27, 2006, 09:18 PM

I second Albert Pujols' and Tomchu's advice. I used those techniques to bring a moribund 3.5" Maxtor back to life BUT I also had to bang the drive against a hard surface to stop it from clacking (a ticka-ticka-ticka sound).

If you are fortunate enough to be able to bring the drive back to life, then don't do anything that would cause a write. That'll clobber the data for good, at least in my experience. Get Data Rescue II and do a straight read off the drive until all your data is backed up.

Warning: Using the banging technique is dangerous. If you go this route, you could damage the drive to the point where even Drivesavers might not be able to recover the data anymore. Consider mothballing the drive and waiting for a day when you can afford to have the data recovered.

Cody Dawg · Jan 27, 2006, 09:19 PM

Wow, Mastrap,

Good for you!

It probably wouldn't have mattered with mine either except that the front latch screw has to be the same one or it won't latch or work properly (at least on mine/ours) and then the computer doesn't know if it is on or off and thinks it is off, actually. At least that is my experience.

I just got back a PowerBook from Apple and I'm reloading everything back onto it. I have two Macs that I data synchronize about once a month and I do a DVD backup about every three months or so. I was thinking of getting an external drive also.

Anyway, it's always a great thing to back up, yes. It's great that he's reminding everyone.

ReggieX · Jan 27, 2006, 09:20 PM

Originally Posted by Mastrap

First time I took an iBook apart I ended up with seven leftover screws. Never made a difference and is still working as a music server today.

That's the profit!

ReggieX · Jan 27, 2006, 09:22 PM

Frankly it sounds like hard drive failure. If you CAN, do the freezer trick, but know in advance you may have only one shot at this.

In the meantime, I can highly recommend Data Rescue 2.

f1000 · Jan 27, 2006, 09:23 PM

One last word of advice. I know that we all want to maximize the amount of storage space that we have, but it's probably prudent for us to buy twice the storage space that we actually need and to religiously back up half of the space. In other words, always have a backup drive available for the active drive. If you can't afford it, then get a smaller active drive.

Hard drives are simply too unreliable to be trusted with thousands of hours of data without backups.

f1000 · Jan 27, 2006, 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by milhous

After returning home from an extraordinarly good day of work, I realize that my 30gb iBook hard drive is completely toast. The drive will neither boot nor detect and mount from the OS X cd. The hard drive makes the most peculiar sounds--mostly humming and buzzing from the drive.

I'm not really qualified to speculate, but it sounds like your drive is recoverable. The humming noise probably indicates a motor failure; the platters themselves should be fine.

shabbasuraj · Jan 27, 2006, 09:36 PM

Originally Posted by f1000

I'm not really qualified to speculate, but it sounds like your drive is recoverable. The humming noise probably indicates a motor failure; the platters themselves should be fine.

ya what he said...

Data loss is not an 'IF' but a 'WHEN'.

ironknee · Jan 27, 2006, 09:52 PM

what is the best back up solution?

Kevin · Jan 27, 2006, 09:57 PM

I just got one of these for work and home.

http://www.lacie.com/products/product.htm?pid=10384

Love it so far.

TETENAL · Jan 27, 2006, 10:10 PM

Originally Posted by Kevin

I just got one of these for work and home.

Nice. Progressive lenses I guess.

wataru · Jan 27, 2006, 10:15 PM

Both my friend's and my father's iBooks' hard drives died, and I managed to mount them and extract all their data. All it took was repeated reboots while booting from an external FireWire drive. Maybe I was just lucky though.

waxcrash · Jan 27, 2006, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by milhous

For everything that's important to you on your computer, I ask of you, please backup!

Duh…Thank you captain obvious. I recommend a nice amber amber ale or syrah. Pretend it never happened.

JoshuaZ · Jan 27, 2006, 10:20 PM

I feel your pain. Lost everything off my Powerbook last spring after I took my Powerbook on a road trip. Luckily I backed everything up ahead of time, so I only lost a few photos I had taken on the trip. Small price to pay.

SirCastor · Jan 28, 2006, 03:55 AM

I know a friend who experienced practically the same thing. They didn't go through the hassel of contacting a drive recovery company though. The kind of recovery you're looking at is reading off the platter with a needle. That may not be what you need.

I'll check to see if my friend's got their data back. They just gave the drive to a guy a school. I think he was gonna try to read the data bit for bit on another machine (not try to mount) I dunno. I'm no genius.

11011001 · Jan 28, 2006, 04:05 AM

The platters and heads are in an airtight enclosure. But yes condensation on the circuitry could potentially be a bad thing. (for the freezer thing) Does that make me a tech nazi?

willed · 05:07 AM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I've heard the freezer thing also.

But getting the hard drive out of the iBook is HELL.

I know because I upgraded an iBook for my son for a Christmas gift (swapped 10gb that was grinding and whining for new 80GB) and it was pure unadulterated torture. It's a 2-hour job for the uninitiated and a 1 hour job for experienced people.

Maybe it's worth the risk though?

Good luck.

I'm with you there - did exactly the same 'operation' at around the same time. Very stressful, especially when I found that there was one near-innacessible screw holding the thing together which wasn't mentioned in the online instructions I'd been using. But somehow I did it and my new 80GB iBook has worked like a champ ever since.

Milhous - bad luck man. Instead of expensive data backup solutions and external HDs, could I recommend getting an iPod if you haven't already? I use mine to back up my photos and data. Granted, I have .Mac Backup which helps, but if you're a cash-strapped student, then drag and drop backup could be good enough, plus it's a good way to justify the expense of a new iPod!

f1000 · Jan 28, 2006, 05:35 AM

Originally Posted by 11011001

The platters and heads are in an airtight enclosure.

I've read that they aren't. Maybe newer hard drives are airtight, but all the ones I've seen have a pressure equalization valve built into each of them.

From the PC Doctor:

"Here is the vent hole on the exterior of the drive."

"Here is a filter that cleans the air entering the drive. A drive isn’t airtight, instead it allows the pressure to be equalized in the drive but the air coming into the drive has to be clean."

alligator · Jan 28, 2006, 07:42 AM

Okay, your post had an effect. I'll start backing up my stuff today. I've never had a drive fail on me, but your post caused me to play it safe. Thanks for the reminder.

OldManMac · Jan 28, 2006, 07:57 AM

I'll second the back up thing. I lost a 160GB external Lacie a couple of weeks ago, although I had all my documents, spreadsheets and financial files backed up to last October on CD, so that wasn't so bad. I panicked at first, until I realized that I had that backup CD. I now back up every Friday night, to either CD or DVD.

mdc · Jan 28, 2006, 08:34 AM

Last year I was at the Apple store and decided to buy an external 160gig Lacie drive. I started backing up to it every few days, and then about 3 weeks later my Powerbook hard drive died. I think I lost an album I had bought off the iTunes Music store the day before, but that's it.

3 years worth of email, I think I could live without. The 3000 songs in iTunes I could get again, but the 8000 photos in iPhotos would destroy me if I lost them.

I'm sorry you had to go through this, and I completely agree with you. Backup religiously.
We're spending so much money on computers and accessories, what's another $160 or so for an external drive. The Apple store has a LaCie 250GB FireWire Hard Drive for $169.95.

Like many have said, Data loss isn't an if, it's a when.

chris v · Jan 28, 2006, 08:36 AM

If it's really important, take your backups off-site.

What if your back-up drive is plugged in along side you Mac when lightning strikes and fries them both? I've actually cosidered this: Rent a safety deposit box big enough for a FW drive, have two of them, and back-up/swap FW drives between home and the box monthly.

As it stands, I back up work stuff to an external drive in case of drive failure, and I burn monthly CDs and bring them home in case of fire/theft.. The home stuff I haven't gotten off site yet, but I'm thinking about it, as the hours I've gotten into audio work, and scanning old slides begins to swell.

nredman · Jan 28, 2006, 09:15 AM

my ibook hardrive died a few months ago - i still haven't replaced it - i got a new imac instead - once i pay it off i am going try to repair it myself and then my wife is going to use it

andreas_g4 · Jan 28, 2006, 09:46 AM

milhous, sorry to hear that. I think it is very nice turn to make this a warning for us.

I'm a student and the data (except for my photos) I have on my machine would not bring me in serious trouble if I lost it, but for convenience sake, I bought a 200 GB drive for my mini and my backup is a complete disk image from my internal 80 GB drive, which I encrypt and store on an 80 GB partition. For personal purposes, I think this is an ample solution.

leehotti · Jan 28, 2006, 09:55 AM

If you have a tower, just keep backups on another internal HD. Next time I upgrade I'm going RAID 1 for total redundancy, that way I don't need to keep backups.

andreas_g4 · Jan 28, 2006, 10:00 AM

Originally Posted by leehotti

If you have a tower, just keep backups on another internal HD. Next time I upgrade I'm going RAID 1 for total redundancy, that way I don't need to keep backups.

That way, you will loose accidently deleted files.

leehotti · Jan 28, 2006, 10:01 AM

You know.... in my 13+ years using a mac, I have NEVER accidentally deleted a file. Maybe that's just me, but I don't see how that's even possible.

euchomai · Jan 28, 2006, 10:09 AM

I had my ibook stolen, no drive recovery there. Lost some precious pictures, now I backup pretty regularly. I use the .mac backup to keep specific files that are important online. I use DVDs to backup my iPhotos and also my iTunes stuff. I back up each project to a cd and keep it in my shelf. If also keeps my hard drive free of stuff just building up.

ReggieX · Jan 28, 2006, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by leehotti

If you have a tower, just keep backups on another internal HD. Next time I upgrade I'm going RAID 1 for total redundancy, that way I don't need to keep backups.

RAID 1 is in no way a backup solution.

leehotti · Jan 28, 2006, 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by ReggieX

RAID 1 is in no way a backup solution.

Why? It's redundant, so if one drive fails it still has your data.

andreas_g4 · Jan 28, 2006, 11:34 AM

Originally Posted by leehotti

You know.... in my 13+ years using a mac, I have NEVER accidentally deleted a file. Maybe that's just me, but I don't see how that's even possible.

You have a document. You alter it and hit e.g. save instead of print. Done.

Any yes, I think it would be just you who never accidently deleted a document. It also heavily depends on how many data you process.

Albert Pujols · Jan 28, 2006, 11:39 AM

Originally Posted by leehotti

Why? It's redundant, so if one drive fails it still has your data.

Yeah, that means it will also copy all viruses, mistakes, deleted files and other garbage that your main disk writes.

chris v · Jan 28, 2006, 11:43 AM

Originally Posted by leehotti

Why? It's redundant, so if one drive fails it still has your data.

And if someone steals your computer, they have all your data. (not dissing RAID as an idea, but don't count on it to solve all your potential backup needs)

wdlove · Jan 28, 2006, 11:47 AM

I wish you all the best.

I have a LaCie HD.

Drakino · Jan 28, 2006, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by leehotti

You know.... in my 13+ years using a mac, I have NEVER accidentally deleted a file. Maybe that's just me, but I don't see how that's even possible.

I know a friend of mine just recently deleted a ton of files and had to restore from backup. He is a longtime Windows user, just recently switched to OS X. His problem is that OS X and Windows differ on how they handle copying directories. Quick example:

Hard drive 1 has a folder called Bob containing Doc1
Hard drive 2 also has a folder called Bob containing Doc2

Drag the folder Bob on hard disk 1 to the root of hard disk 2 where Bob lives there.

OS X : Prompts if the user wants to Stop or Replace. Clicking Replace will mean hard drive 2 has a folder called Bob with Doc1 in it.

Windows: A prompt will ask if you want to replace files of the same name. Clicking past this results in a folder called Bob with Doc1 and Doc2 in it.

Yes, it's not a mistake you make twice once you know, but it took my friend a week of doing file managment on the Mac to notice what was happening and recover.

milhous · Jan 28, 2006, 04:10 PM

thank you all for your feedback and words of advice. i am back on the ibook now using a 160gb firewire hard drive and have since removed the internal hard drive. when i booted up from the external drive last night, the internal drive was back to being quiet, but then started to hum and buzz after 30 minutes or so. the internal drive did seem to mount, but neither could it be opened or unmounted and would then lock up the system. i was trying to find a way to disable the internal drive through open firmware so that it could be isolated from the system, but i wasn't getting anywhere.

luckily, i was able to find a copy of the apple service manual for the ibook g4 so the disassembly went pretty well. i'm using the ibook right now with the bottom case removed and placed on an podium pad which has rubber points and should hopefully be somewhat safe to use for the time being. i'm running software update on the firewire drive to bring tiger current and then i've got think of what to do next.

i've been wanting to get a larger hard drive anyways, so i'll probably get a 120gb seagate from newegg and put that in. i also need to get my 2.5" firewire enclosure back from my friend so that I can try to attempt some sort of drive recovery with it. i'll just leave the internal drive alone for a few days and hopefully when i'm ready to attempt a recovery, i can get most or all the data off of it. i'll let you know how it turns out. i may be able to use the firewire drive that i'm booting off of as the backup drive since it does nothing else and has a fairly new hard drive. thanks again.

OldManMac · Jan 28, 2006, 08:30 PM

Originally Posted by leehotti

If you have a tower, just keep backups on another internal HD. Next time I upgrade I'm going RAID 1 for total redundancy, that way I don't need to keep backups.

And what happens when a power surge or lightning strikes? Or, a natural disaster strikes, or your house burns down? The purpose of a backup is to have a separate copy of your important files somewhere safe. Of course, if you're the type who says "It'll never happen to me," then just ignore what I'm saying.

ambush · Jan 28, 2006, 08:52 PM

Well at least, you got your MacNN cookie back!

Kidding.

This happened to me with my iBook. Turns out it was recoverable with simple software/a bit of hacking.

Just don't let DriveSavers profit from you yet. You're in a state of shock. Settle down a bit and try calling mac workshops you know. Tell them you'll give them 200$ if they recover, period. They'll probably do it.