[typoon]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184261,00.html

When is the political correctness going to end? UGH.

BROCKTON, Mass. — A first grader was suspended for three days after school officials said he sexually harassed a girl in his class by allegedly putting two fingers inside the girl's waistband while she sat on the floor in front of him.

The boy's mother, Berthena Dorinvil, said she "screamed" about last week's suspension from Downey Elementary School, and added her son doesn't know what sexual harassment is.

"He doesn't know those things," she told The Enterprise of Brockton. "He's only 6 years old."

School officials declined comment to The Enterprise, citing the child's age.

"They would have not suspended the child without doing an investigation," said spokeswoman Cynthia McNally.

Dorinvil said the school principal, Diane Gosselin, called her to pick up her son Jan. 30. She said her son asked the principal if the police were going to come get him.

The principal told Dorinvil the girl complained to the teacher after her son touched the girl's waistband, hitting her skin, in a room full of children.

Dorinvil said her son told her he touched the girl's shirt, not her skin, after the girl touched him.

"He was playing with her," Dorinvil said.

[hickey]

good lord, I would expect a call to the parents emphasizing they need to teach why that is wrong and everything. but suspension. come on

[turtle777]

Only in Amaraca !

[olePigeon]

"But how can there be sex-usual heresmatt without a stork?" - Little Billy, 6.

[turtle777]

^^^

[powerbook867]

olePigeon, too funny!!!!

[BRussell]

I don't know about this case, but I have a six year old girl whom a boy of the same age was kissing and trying to lay on top of in my house. Six-year-olds certainly know about such things, obviously not in the same way as adults, but they know and they can be told what's appropriate and they can be punished for being inappropriate.

[turtle777]

BRussell, the point is, it is NOT sexual harassment in this case.
It's just kids behaving inappropriatly. WTF ?

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

"But how can there be sex-usual heresmatt without a stork?" - Little Billy, 6.

Ridiculous story. Definitely tell the parents, "Listen, just tell your son that certain things are inappropriate." But suspension? Yet another blunder of the public education system.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

BRussell, the point is, it is NOT sexual harassment in this case.
It's just kids behaving inappropriatly. WTF ?

Maybe, I don't know, and you don't know either. But I do know for certain that the mother is wrong to say that a 6-year-old can't understand sexually inappropriate behavior. I see nothing wrong with punishing a child for something sexually inappropriate, whether this specific case involved that or not.

Maybe I'm just being a little bit contrarian here, but I don't think it's implausible to say that a boy sticking his hand down a girl's pants is sexually inappropriate. We need to support schools when they punish kids, not side with parents who complain that their little angel didn't do anything wrong.

[turtle777]

Ok, so let's say a boy puts his hands in another boys pants ?
Sexual harassment as well ?

Come on, give me a farkin break !

[Rolling Bones]

Great, the kid will grow up gay now!

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Only in Amaraca !

In many other places, the deed goes unpunished, silenced, or laughed at.

[andi*pandi]

he probably was going to snap the waistband or something equally foolish, an accident, etc. Which may fall under the category of obnoxious, but could also be just horseplay. Send him to the principal's office if you must do something, but really.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

In many other places, the deed goes unpunished, silenced, or laughed at.

How's that different in this case ?
Again, we are talking about sexual harassment of a 6 year old !

[Rolling Bones]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

he probably was going to snap the waistband or something equally foolish, an accident, etc. Which may fall under the category of obnoxious, but could also be just horseplay. Send him to the principal's office if you must do something, but really.

Maybe a wedgy.

[hickey]

that might have been a little much porieux

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

In many other places, the deed goes unpunished, silenced, or laughed at.

In many other places we are intelligent enough to discern between sexual harrasment and kids playing/discovering sexuality.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

How's that different in this case ?
Again, we are talking about sexual harassment of a 6 year old !

And again, if you think that's impossible, you don't know 6-year-olds. Who knows about this case, but sexual "harassment," or whatever you want to call it, absolutely does happen with kids that age, I know as a parent of one. Honestly, I trust the teachers who were there over the parent of this angel little boy and a Fox news report that loves to drum up outrage about these types of things. I'm willing to admit that it could be just a kid who didn't do anything bad, but I'm not willing to say it's impossible, like you seem to be saying.

[nredman]

don't hate the player hate the game

[11011001]

In a few years, this could be him.

[Kevin]

Come on.. they kid was just trying to get laid.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Come on.. they kid was just trying to get laid.

[Salty]

Accusing someone of sexual harassment before they're sexual is retarded. The kid did something that mommy should tell him he shouldn't do again because that's not an appropriate place to touch girls in that context. The kid shouldn't be treated as if he's some sort of pervert though.

[Doofy]

[ghporter]

Sexual harassment has to have two components: it must be harassment intended to subjugate, oppress or otherwise degrade the victim, and it must be done in such a way that the victim's gender is used against him or her. Here's what the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission has to say about it:

Sexual harassment is a form of sex discrimination that violates Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964.

Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature constitutes sexual harassment when submission to or rejection of this conduct explicitly or implicitly affects an individual's employment, unreasonably interferes with an individual's work performance or creates an intimidating, hostile or offensive work environment.

The term "work" has been broadly defined to include academic settings and performance at all levels.

But that does NOT make a 6 year old's poking at another child sexual harassment. Harassment? SURE! 6 year olds do that, and they need to learn to keep their cookie-grubbing hands to themselves!

But ANY behavior by a 6 year old that is suspected of being "sexual" in any way needs significant investigation by qualified pediatric psychologists and social workers, NOT some grade school staff and faculty. A REAL sexual incident happened at my son's kindergarten way back in the early 90s. The staff and faculty were oblivious until one kid's parents questioned his sudden uncharacteristic behavior and went looking for answers. It turned out that one of my son's classmates was being sexually abused at home, and the classmate was acting out some of that abuse on the playground.

Ok, stop throwing up now. The kid got treatment, all the other kids in that class got counselling (and only two were actually affected by the abused child's inappropriate behavior), and (most important) the faculty and staff of the school got a crash course in noticing and identifying sexually inappropriate behavior in such young kids.

So simply saying "it was a boy doing something to a girl" is both overly simplistic and completely missing the point. In the LONG past, was it sexual harassment for a boy to dip the pigtails of the girl sitting in front of him in his inkwell? NO!!! It was inappropriate behavior, but the only reason only girls got their pigtails dipped in ink was that they were the only ones wearing pigtails.

In conclusion, I think this incident is yet another example of how the U.S. educational system is failing EVERYONE. It is not providing sufficient training to anyone on staff so that they can identify what is and is not sexual behavior, and it certainly isn't teaching ANY of those kids WHY such behavior is inappropriate. Having a bunch of adults go ballistic because of something that must be completely innocent-seeming to the "perpetrator" has to have a very negative impact on him. "Scarred for life" is a real possibility, and if the kid winds up even mildly neurotic I hope he sues the school district until he OWNS THE TOWN. This sort of thing can easily make far more, far more serious problems than it supposedly prevents and corrects.

Idiot "educators"...

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by BRussell

I don't know about this case, but I have a six year old girl whom a boy of the same age was kissing and trying to lay on top of in my house. Six-year-olds certainly know about such things, obviously not in the same way as adults, but they know and they can be told what's appropriate and they can be punished for being inappropriate.

It's actually healthy that kids do such things. Even fetuses stimulate their genitals

[turtle777]

ghporter, great post

[meelk]

Originally Posted by Doofy

hahahahahahahaha

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Busemann

It's actually healthy that kids do such things.

Yeah silly me I should have let this boy just go right on with what he was doing. It's actually healthy for 6-year-olds to simulate sex with other kids without their consent. It would have actually been healthy for my daughter, who was mortified, but she would have come around. Good practice for date rapes in college, which is actually healthy too.

Even fetuses stimulate their genitals.

Fetuses stimulate other fetuses' genitals without their consent?

Good post GH, but I wouldn't go too far with the "idiot educators." They were probably trying to do what's right after seeing some of these reports on the prevalence of inappropriate sexual behavior at schools, and perhaps they went too far. But I think we need to back teachers that discipline children, not find a way to undermine them every chance we get.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Yeah silly me I should have let this boy just go right on with what he was doing. It's actually healthy for 6-year-olds to simulate sex with other kids without their consent. It would have actually been healthy for my daughter, who was mortified, but she would have come around. Good practice for date rapes in college, which is actually healthy too.

Who put the jelly out of your donut? Lots of parents punish their kids when they catch them "in the act", either alone or with others, which has proven to cause problems later down the line. I'm just amazed people think sexuality is exclusive to adults.

I didn't refer to your kids' incident especially.

[BRussell]

Originally Posted by Busemann

Who put the jelly out of your donut? Lots of parents punish their kids when they catch them "in the act", either alone or with others, which has proven to cause problems later down the line. I didn't refer to your kids' incident especially.

Well you quoted that incident and then posted your response directly below the quote. It sure looked to me, and it still looks to me when I read it again, like you were saying it was healthy for a little boy to force himself onto my little girl.

[Busemann]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Well you quoted that incident and then posted your response directly below the quote. It sure looked to me, and it still looks to me when I read it again, like you were saying it was healthy for a little boy to force himself onto my little girl.

In your first post you just said they were laying on top of each other. If he was forcing it, then it was obviously wrong.

But that very young kids experiment with each other is completely natural.

[quesera]

It seems that the media's fast and loose relationship with the truth is at play here as well. Consider the source and the headline. I would think it doubtful that school officials or teachers would have suspended the child for "sexual harrassment" and the term itself was likely pasted on by the sensationalist monkeys at Fox News. It certainly had its intended effect on most of the respondents to this thread.

I don't understand what brings out such immediate and uninformed ranting against educators and schools. In this era of nonexistent parenting and a steady diet of sex and violence for every six year old, not to mention the less obvious ills inflicted by this sad hip-hop lowest common denominator sub culture that infects our country, we are always ready to pounce on the education system. As an educator and parent I think I see it a little more accurately. The days of innocent curiosity, for the most part, are gone and I see more and more and ever younger kids leering and lewdly posturing like their gangsta-thug wanna be parents or their staid clueless middle class parents.

As an elementary school teacher I have seen this. I strive to instill in all my students some measure of dignity and respect for others. That includes respecting personal space. I hope my girls learn at an early age a sense of control over their environment, because we know that as the age of raging hormones kicks in, boys will try even harder to impose their presence, physically and otherwise on girls. For my boys it is important to understand this and to know that an innocent mistake can get them in serious trouble and have a long term impact on their futures.

As the father of a six-year old girl I cannot say that I wouldn't demand the same response of school officials. Without castrating the child or psychologically scarring him, he should be made to undersand the innappropriateness of his conduct. His mother is not acting in her son's best interest when she turns him into the victim and decides to grab her 15 seconds of self-validation in the media.

[hickey]

I agree that the mainstream hip-hop fake gangster crap is ruining our youth. but not all hip-hop is like this, Gangstarr, Mos Def, Big L, Del Tha Funky Homosapien, and Mf Doom are some of the much better rappers these days.

sorry to get off topic

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by BRussell

Yeah silly me I should have let this boy just go right on with what he was doing. It's actually healthy for 6-year-olds to simulate sex with other kids without their consent. It would have actually been healthy for my daughter, who was mortified, but she would have come around. Good practice for date rapes in college, which is actually healthy too.Fetuses stimulate other fetuses' genitals without their consent?

Kids discover sexuality and their gender at the age 6-8. It's absolutely perfectly normal. My little brother (7 y/o) is in this stage right now (you have to look out that he doesn't pinch you in the groin ). Take that away and you create wackos who can indeed perform real sexual harassment and rape at a later age. And it's not like he was going to rape her.

[JoshuaZ]

Man. Think about all the stuff we did when we were young? How much of that would be tolerated in today's PC society? Boys harassed girls, girls harassed boys. Kids don't know any better, and there is no meaning behind it. Thats the difference between a 6 year old and a 16 year old.

We don't want out kids to turn into wackos who have a very screwed up sense of sexuality because we tell them to repress it at a very early age.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by typoon

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,184261,00.html

When is the political correctness going to end? UGH.

BROCKTON, Mass. — A first grader was suspended for three days after school officials said he sexually harassed a girl in his class by allegedly putting two fingers inside the girl's waistband while she sat on the floor in front of him.

The boy's mother, Berthena Dorinvil, said she "screamed" about last week's suspension from Downey Elementary School, and added her son doesn't know what sexual harassment is.

"He doesn't know those things," she told The Enterprise of Brockton. "He's only 6 years old."

School officials declined comment to The Enterprise, citing the child's age.

[JoshuaZ]

To boldly go where no man has gone before.

[typoon]

Let's put the source aside for a second and look at this in a different way. The reason I posted this was because I thought what the school did was lunacy. Secondly I posted it because I wanted to see what others would say about something like this if it was their son accused of "sexual Harrassment." I usually try and not post things from Foxnews because of their sometimes questionable reactionary articles. I've been looking at the "major" news websites and haven't seen anything about this except on fox. Does that say something about Foxnews and the Media? Maybe.

Do I think it was sexual harrassment? No. Should the kid have been punished in some way? Yes. It's partially the schools fault and partially the parent's fault. Kids need to be taught what is proper behavior in school. That falls mainly on the parents but it also falls on the schools as well. In this case it's not like the boy was attempting to touch a little girls privates. If he was then it would be a different story. i think it was just a little boy being obnoxious.

[Y3a]

The school administrators are not that high quality. they are morons, and are taking the instructions from some ass canyon lawyer too literally. obviously a 6 YO isn't a sexual being yet, but neither the ambulance chasing lawyer or "C" student school admin know such things. County government workers are usually not that bright anyway - at least thats the case in Fairfax County, VA.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

In conclusion, I think this incident is yet another example of how the U.S. educational system is failing EVERYONE...

Well.. I think its more that our society is failing IT. How can you expect teachers to teach when the parents don't allow their kids to receive a failing grade? My wife (who's a middle school teacher) has been in situations where the parents were livid that their kid got a bad grade. They didn't care that the kid didn't know the subject, they just wanted a better grade regardless - "If you give him/her this grade, they can't be in Geometry next year.. and we want them to be in Geometry 'cause his sister was at this age".

While I'm not saying there are no problems with the education system itself....it sure isn't getting the support it needs from a society's standpoint. I recently received a joke via e-mail.. and it basically poked fun at how a math question has changed over the years (I'll post it if I can find it again). While it was only a joke, it was pretty on the spot.

We can blame the education system all we want because Bobby can't read today. But Bobby can't read today because last week, we demanded that the teacher give him an A regardless if he deserved it or not.

Going back on topic - Did the school go a bit far for suspending this kid? Maybe? maybe not... but perhaps the school has no choice now. 20 years ago, the teacher probably could've just yelled at the kid... 50 years ago, the teacher would've just smacked him lightly on the back of the head and told him to stop it. Now, if a teacher did either one... they'd be fired and the school system would be in court.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by typoon

Should the kid have been punished in some way? Yes.

Err, no, he shouldn't. He should have been told not to do that, but that's it. Snapping a girl's waistband is not something that should be "punished".

[wdlove]

I'm embarrassed for the actions of my state. The actions of officials in Brocton were wrong. More of the feminization of America,

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by wdlove

I'm embarrassed for the actions of my state. The actions of officials in Brocton were wrong. More of the feminization of America,

This has nothing to do with "feminization".

If the story is accurate as told, the people involved are simply idiots. (However, we don't know the whole story of course.)

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

This has nothing to do with "feminization".

Oddly enough, I've just spent the last hour contemplating the feminisation of the western world due to a completely different non-related matter (actually: the social networks of married men and how the majority of their social interaction is a result of permissions from or arrangements made by their wives).

I concluded that the majority of western blokes are girly-men and don't even realise it. Bunch of pansies.

[ghporter]

BRussell, are you sure the boy knew anything about what he seemed to be doing? If so, he learned it somewhere-and at that age, being exposed to sexuality so that he could learn those behaviors is not acceptable. Kids that age DO explore, but the "normal and expected" behaviors are usually limited to discovering the differences between the sexes, not doing something about that difference. That kid has the earmarks of someone with a real problem, most likely at home. Read my earlier post about what was happening at my son's kindergarten...

macroy, you're right about stupid parents trying to get their stupid children promoted without merit. It's a Bad Thing© that's been perpetrated on all of us through stupid "educators" who had one semester of psychology and suddenly become "enlightened" and think that discredited Dr. Spock methodolgy (which was really only intended for very young children in their home in the first place) will make the world a happier, friendlier, more flower-filled place. Did I mention that this was stupid? There are REAL educators in the U.S., but they often work for idiots who couldn't identify a crierion objective or tell the difference between a lecture and a hole in the ground.

I spent over 11 years teaching college level material for CCAF, and once was told by an administrator (with a shiny new BA in education) that I was NOT a "teacher," as I merely taught technical subjects and did not enter the "affective domain of learning." Bull; every single lesson I taught not only dealt with technical details but also WHY they were important. Every lesson got each student involved in the reasons for the lesson and the emotional commitment to understand and apply it -- which fits the definition of affective learning, whether the BA holder understood it or not. Of course this idiot needed to wear loafers because he couldn't manage to tie his shoes by himself...

[badidea]

Originally Posted by Doofy

actually: the social networks of married men and how the majority of their social interaction is a result of permissions from or arrangements made by their wives).

So true!!!!

I just talked to a colleague who was very disappointed because he can't join us the next bowling night because he is already allowed to go out this weekend (/wife)...

[typoon]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

Err, no, he shouldn't. He should have been told not to do that, but that's it. Snapping a girl's waistband is not something that should be "punished".

Be told not to do that. Yes I agree. Possibly he should also be made to write something or be given something like an in school suspension to learn that doing things like that is not right. That is what I meant by be punished.

[macsfromnowon]

Well, you can't be too careful. Boys need to realise that they must FIRST become president or a candidate for the Supreme Court... THEN they can begin playing doctor!