[Mallrat]

Apple lover to the core. So like when people say they disagree with war, it doesn't mean they don't love America. I love Apple, but I think sometimes they try so hard to have the newest, coolest product that they leave the already established, perfect some say product behind.

The best example is the iPod mini. Trying to keep up with the iPod changes is like trying to keep track of all the contestants that tried out on American Idol. It's crazy.

I LOVED and miss the iPod mini. Yes the nano is cool... but I thought they mini was PERFECT. Just the right size, and I loved the colors. But apple always has to change things. I just don't get it. They were selling like hotcakes, but they are gone.

I think they only updated them twice before being discontiued. I know lots of technology people do this, but I feel the differece among their updates is minmal and the time frame seems not as severe.

It's like if Apple realizes a product lets call it SUPER POD with 5 colors on Jan 1 2007, and it's a big hit.. the will have an update around say around Sep 1 2007 (8 months) that makes the capacity bigger, but gets rid of 1 or 2 of the colors. So if you like say "gold" but wanted the 2nd generation one, you were out of luck. It's only 8 months old, but it's gone. A 1 time deal. Then the next update will be in the next 6 months and they CHANGE the colors all together, maybe increase battery life, and drop the lower capacity all together. The price goes down. But not much else has happened. Fine. But then you turn your back and by Jan 1 2009 rolls arond the product doesn't even exsist anymore.

All those accessories you bought. Useless.

It seems that Apple model is to keep on changing things up, not to sell to new customers, but to sell the same product five times to geeks like me and you. And you know what, it works! We do buy mulitple computers and iPods.

And the iPod Accessories is a HUGE MARKET. I'm sure Apple considers this in many ways. Come out with a new product, sell new accessories. That's good business.

My point is, it's now 2006. And I want an iPod mini. You know that product that was the hot seller a few Christmas ago. Not that long. I can still buy a Playstation 2 (even though 3 is around the corner) but now it's the nano. No mini.

I know the nano sells well... and I can see why. But I miss the colors. And I love the size. I think personally that the nano is almost too small for my fat hands. I like something with a little more weight. I mean my headphones weigh 10 times the weight of a nano. That's nuts.

I miss the iPod Nano. The ibook clamshell. The colorful iMacs.

Apple moves so fast that by the time the average consumer knows what the new apple products are, they are gone and you can't get them.

The nano is brand new, but the way things are going, it's only got 280 days of product life left. Better get one while you still can.

[Doofy]

Yep. Apple's merry-go-round is spinning way too fast. I'd prefer they spent a little more time on perfecting what they already have ('coz let's face it, Finder is still crap).

[Mallrat]

I'm glad I"m not alone. Exactly. They never seem to let the product reach it's ultimate potential... they abandon it just when it could be great then introduce us a new "baby".

But what about their other children?

[Big Mac]

Are you really buying the same product every time Apple updates it, Mallrat? I buy an updated version of an Apple product when I need it or if I desire the new features my previous generation device lacked. And when I upgrade because of a want rather than a need, I usually wait until I can get a good deal on eBay. I doubt an Apple employee is holding a gun to anyone's head to force purchases. And as for the mini giving way to the nano, it made good financial sense for Apple to replace it because the nano is even more popular than the mini, which was the previous sales winner.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I thought the iPod Mini was ok but competitors were getting close to matching it in terms of looks.

The Nano is incredible, nothing can touch it so far. They really leap-frogged the competition with it.

[Krypton]

I don't think they innovate enough; all their latest successes have been improvements of other companies designs/markets.

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

Originally Posted by Krypton

I don't think they innovate enough; all their latest successes have been improvements of other companies designs/markets.

Examples please.

[Salty]

I think for me as an ADD case Apple innovates just enough . With OS X I'm always wanting the new features in the updated OSes. iLife I think I'm going to have a two year upgrade cycle cause I love iPhoto and I like having the other apps but really iWeb isn't all it was cracked up to be, so I'll buy it again when it gets up to version 3 and being more useful .
As well I wish I could get another mini it was the perfect iPod for me, it was rugged! I'm scared for my new 5th gen it already has all these scratches on it just from being in it's socks. The mini months after I had it showed no signs of damage. And when it did it wasn't that bad. I don't want to see what my new iPod is going to look like in a year haha...
Anyway, if you think about it Apple's computers really don't change that much, sure the new ones have front row, big deal. The iBook has barely changed aside from specs and a few nice features since it's introduction same with the PowerBook.

[Rolling Bones]

I'm getting a feeling of deja vu.

[shunt]

....all their latest successes have been improvements of other companies designs/markets.

Which is pretty much what innovation is/has been for a long time.

[Krypton]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

Examples please.

Well,true Apple innovations have always failed, or slowly petered out:

1. Newton (PDA)
2. Cube (small form factor and aesthetically pleasing/sculptural PC)
3. Pippin (internet enabled games console)
4. Apple TV set top box (never made it to market, there's a pic on Wikipedia somewhere)
5. QuickTake (consumer orientated digital camera, although manufactured by Kodak)

Whereas the iPod, although very well done in terms of industrial design, software integration and user interface doesn't offer anything radically different from mp3 players 10 years ago.

I am not belittling Apple's immense achievement in this field but essentially they have taken someone else's product and improved it a great deal; there isn't something hugely innovative about it in terms of new design, thinking outside the box etc.

The extension into video is promising, but Apple are still following trends set by other companies; they have yet to create a usable human interface for portable watching for long periods of time.

[shunt]

innovation |ˌinəˈvā sh ən| noun the action or process of innovating. • a new method, idea, product, etc. : technological innovations designed to save energy.


what's so difficult to understand?

[Krypton]

Originally Posted by shunt

Which is pretty much what innovation is/has been for a long time.

Yes, to clarify innovation does cover the improvement of existing designs, but I feel that truly remarkable design is that of whole new ideas and concepts.

Take the Dyson vacuum cleaner for example; no one had created a bagless consumer vacuum before, and in doing so James Dyson had to fiercely defend his patents.

[Big Mac]

Apple, too, has had to fiercely defend its iPod patents. I don't see the distinction you're drawing, although I understand the difference between creativity and innovation you're referring to:

1984 Macintosh = creative masterpiece
iPod = masterpiece of innovation

[Krypton]

Your examples do illustrate what I was getting at.

Defend which patents? (with regard to the iPod) I am fairly sure that they have no interface patents (hence the dispute with Creative), and that if they did they are unenforceable due to all the prior art and cross fertilisation of ideas in this field.

The click wheel is another matter; although, the actual functionality of this component was originally outsourced to another company (Synaptics) that already had similar technology and IP.

[andreas_g4]

No.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Yep. Apple's merry-go-round is spinning way too fast. I'd prefer they spent a little more time on perfecting what they already have ('coz let's face it, Finder is still crap).

Agreed 100%. The Finder *is* still crap. I would also like to see more attention to details at Apple - especially regarding software, and especially regarding the Finder and better iTunes. One with gapless playback.

cheers

W-Y

[Krypton]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

One with gapless playback.

I find this a big issue also, yet it still hasn't happened (it's not impossible, the Rio Karma for example).

Try submitting it through Apple's bugreporter, and see what response you get

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Krypton

I find this a big issue also, yet it still hasn't happened (it's not impossible, the Rio Karma for example).

Try submitting it through Apple's bugreporter, and see what response you get

Ahaha yes, I have ever since iTunes 4 submitted a request for gapless playback after every update. Of course I have not gotten any correspondance back from them, but none was expected or desired. Only gapless playback and thus far - in iTunes 6.0.3, it is not there.

As an example a one-man (it seems) open source project audio player in alpha is playing almost gapless. It's called Cog and it is at version 0.0.4c and completely gapless playback is a feature that will be implemented into this player according to the developer.

If you're curious, you can check it out, it's harmless.

cheers

W-Y

[King Bob On The Cob]

Originally Posted by Krypton

Whereas the iPod, although very well done in terms of industrial design, software integration and user interface doesn't offer anything radically different from mp3 players 10 years ago.

I used alot of the older MP3 players (Rio Sport, Rio 600, Rio 800, RioVolt, a Classic MP3 CD player, and the first Creative nomad). Up until the iPod they all SUCKED. They really just were terrible, shoddily built, even though you could replace the batteries, they'd eat 1 to 2 AAs in like an hour, I broke my Rio Sport, my Rio 600, and all my MP3 CD players. The Creative nomad was clunky.
Apple really lit a fire under their asses and made the rest of the industry improve their players.

[volcano]

Originally Posted by Mallrat

I LOVED and miss the iPod mini. Yes the nano is cool... but I thought they mini was PERFECT. Just the right size, and I loved the colors. But apple always has to change things. I just don't get it. They were selling like hotcakes, but they are gone.

I think they only updated them twice before being discontiued. I know lots of technology people do this, but I feel the differece among their updates is minmal and the time frame seems not as severe.

Well, just to defend the Nano (a product that I don't own by the way), the original iPod Mini was introduced in January 2004, and the 2nd (and last) generation of the product wasn't released until February 2005 - over a year later! This January, the Mini would've been two years old.

Did it sell well? Of course. If the Nano were non-existent and we still had the Mini, would it still be selling well? Definitely. But Apple had a few tricks up their sleeves and blew [most of] us away with the introduction of the Nano.

I'll admit, I'm a freak who keeps up with the latest iPods. In 2005 I went from a 2G Silver Mini to a 4G w/ color display, then upgraded that to the black 5G w/ video by the end of the year. I'm not nearly as "freak-like" when it comes to my Macs, though. I'm still happily using my 2GHz iMac G5, and I don't plan on upgrading it for another year or so. My 1.33GHz iBook, though.. well, we'll see.

[wdlove]

I think that Apple if is innovating at a proper pace. Best to get it right the first time.

[Mallrat]

Big Mac --

No I don't update all the time, but by peoples signatures on this board, people surely do want the latest and greatest apple product (even though their current model is perfectly fine).

I'm still using a SLOW iMac G4 20inch... I'm in the dark ages.

Big Mac - your name and signature give me the perfect example.

If McDonald's replaced the Big Mac with the Arch Deluxe years ago, this world would be a worse place. I know technology and food aren't the same, but I know plenty of you that miss the McRib.

Sometimes the product you already made is the product of the future.

[shunt]

OK, now you're making some sense.

To the original question...well Jobs is a product guy. Wasn't he selling those "blue boxes" (tone dialers) to college kids way back?

My brother has gone through 5 or 6 PDA's, all high end stuff. In his words, they're all crap. Unreliable, glitchy syncing, waayy too fragile for everyday use. Now he's gone back to a small black organizer and a pencil. No batteries, firmware updates, crappy software, etc..and won't ever be obsolete.

Technology has slowly pissed off the common man, the "get left behind" ploy isn't working like it used to. New consumers are harder to fool with shoddy products, if it sucks words spreads quickly (ironically by the same technology they created).


In a nutshell: Execution is the new innovation.

.

[Millennium]

Remember when Jobs promised "surprises every 90 days"?

[Stogieman]

No, when did he promise that?