[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

"Not only are physically unattractive teenagers likely to be stay-at-homes on prom night, they're also more likely to grow up to be criminals, say two economists who tracked the life course of young people from high school through early adulthood."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGRIHAT6I1.DTL

[Kevin]

Sounds pathetically shallow.

But I can understand. Shallow/hateful Kids teasing them all their life about them being "fat" or "ugly"

Some even grow up as adults doing the same.

[wdlove]

That is very sad.

[aberdeenwriter]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

"Not only are physically unattractive teenagers likely to be stay-at-homes on prom night, they're also more likely to grow up to be criminals, say two economists who tracked the life course of young people from high school through early adulthood."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGRIHAT6I1.DTL

I think somewhere in the backs of our minds we all may have believed this but didn't want to believe it. We thought it would be too cruel. But in reality it is MORE cruel to allow the ugliness they do to their own lives to continue because we thought it was kinder to address the issue by ignoring it.

[Ratm]

It's true... I'm typing this from jail.

[hickey]

well at least we know you're ugly, so we can stop talking to you....

[JoshuaZ]

I had bad achne when I was younger, and got on some drugs which solved all my issues. My dermatoligist was talking about the drugs, and said that there was a risk of depression and kill themselves. Though his logic was that many kids who had bad achne were already depressed about it due to social pressure, so it was really not an issue. he was a cool guy.

[wdlove]

Well we can't all have good looks. All we can do is try our best each and every day.

[Kevin]

Making fun of others looks is no different than making fun of their race, religion, or sexual preference.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

I had bad achne when I was younger, and got on some drugs which solved all my issues. My dermatoligist was talking about the drugs, and said that there was a risk of depression and kill themselves. Though his logic was that many kids who had bad achne were already depressed about it due to social pressure, so it was really not an issue. he was a cool guy.

It seems Roaccutane/Accutane can lead to depression and suicidal tendencies. However it has near perfect efficacy. As long as people are made perfectly clear about these side-effects, it is a near perfect medicine.

How this depression is linked to isotretinoin is unknown.

cheers

W-Y

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

"Not only are physically unattractive teenagers likely to be stay-at-homes on prom night, they're also more likely to grow up to be criminals, say two economists who tracked the life course of young people from high school through early adulthood."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGRIHAT6I1.DTL

Its a correlational study- that means that we don't know the reason the physically unattractive teenagers became involved with crime. Also, there were no statistics given in the article. The correlation may be extremely weak. I'm guessing this is the case. If it is, that means that if you are ugly there is a slight chance you may commit a crime. This is useless knowledge to have. I know plenty of attractive people who commit crimes. A more useful predictor is to look at kids who grew up in a neighborhood riddled with crime, because there is a far greater chance that they will become criminals (if I remember my first year grad school stats class correctly).

From my experience, I am guessing the explaination for the findings of this study is that better looking people are better at getting away with crime and not getting caught. How many attractive females do you think get speeding tickets, compared to ugly ones? Psych studies have shown that good looking people are very good at weaseling out of stuff, because they have learned how to charm people.


Make a note that ugly people can charm people as well- its just a harder skill to learn.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

As long as people are made perfectly clear about these side-effects, it is a near perfect medicine.

I wouldn't say near perfect. Permanent chemical changes occur in your body. They have to, if acne is to be prevented. I took acutane. While I am not nearly as sensitive to the sun as I was while being treated, I still burn far easier than I ever did before taking the drug. There were some other subtle changes that occured in my body chemistry that I don't care to disscuss here.

And runners! All runners know that this stuff will F*CK with your Track or Cross-country performance- particularly distance runners. Its accepted now, that if you are on acutane you will have a bad season. As soon as you are done, get ready to run fast again. I didn't know this when I was on the drug, I wish I would have.



JoshuaZ: I believe your dermatologist is wrong. I work in the psych field and the depression people experience on these drugs seems to be induced by the medication. I've also had some personal experience. My junior year was my best year in high school, and one of the best times in my life. I took my acutane my senior year and couldn't figure out why I felt so depressed all the time (as I said before, it was still new then and people didn't know about the side effects). I would have been nice at the time to know that I was just feeling the effects of the drug.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Miniryu

I wouldn't say near perfect. Permanent chemical changes occur in your body. They have to, if acne is to be prevented. I took acutane. While I am not nearly as sensitive to the sun as I was while being treated, I still burn far easier than I ever did before taking the drug. There were some other subtle changes that occured in my body chemistry that I don't care to disscuss here.

I understand, but I would still call it near-perfect. Compare it to any other drug. It has immense efficacy - over 80% in the first treatment and near 99% in the second treatment. The side effects of it are very low toned compared to its strength. Ususally drugs that are very effective on something have very strong side effects. Conversely drugs that are mildly effective have mild side effects.

All acne drugs make one's skin more sensitive to the sun, for instance. Isotretinoin (it goes by many brand names) induces photo sensitivity like a mild retinoid (topical drug that is/was used against acne) while the retinoid has really low efficacy.

Rule of thumbs it that a very effective drug induces very severe side-effects. Isotretinoin is an exception of this rule. -- However the depression-inducing effect may just be that seriously strong side-effect. I'd say it is serious business when a drug makes you want to end your life, no?

I still maintain that given all known side-effects of this particular drug, it is worth them. Just be aware of the possible depression. It is lethal.

cheers

W-Y

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by Weyland-Yutani

I still maintain that given all known side-effects of this particular drug, it is worth them.

I would have rather had pimples than lose my scholarship to UCLA, but to each his own. Can we just settle on the agreement that the drug is "very effective"?

[Severed Hand of Skywalker]

I know a bunch of people who did the acutain route. In the about 5 people I know it worked 100% in 1 of them.

[loki74]

so basically correlation != causality. I find this especially true in this case, as what is "ugly" is merely a social standard... which can change. So unless we can say that certain physical attributes regardless of how they are socially perceved cause this, it will be purely correlative.... but i guess im just rambling since no argument has been made contrary to this. oh well, just my $0.02.

Anyhoo, about that drug thing. While you both make good points, I think that the magnitude of side effects cannot be universally weighed as "low toned" or "strong." As I understand it, succeptibility (spelling?) to side effects depends greatly on the person taking drugs, and I imagine this is especially true in the case of depression. If someone is consistently of a cheerful disposition, then sure, no prob. But if someone has personal and/or family history of depression, it might not be so good an idea.

There is a reason why patients are perscribed drugs on a case-by-case basis, and arguing and throwing around statistics i think will not prove anything... talk to your doctor about it, that is ALWAYS the best thing to do. (sorry for pointing out the obvious)

[macaddict0001]

Isn't it true that anyone who is oppressed is more likely to rise up against their oppressors than those who are benefiting?

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by loki74

So unless we can say that certain physical attributes regardless of how they are socially perceved cause this, it will be purely correlative....

Its always correlational unless there is an experiment done- meaning an independant variable has to be manipulated to see how a dependant variable will react. Nothing was manipulated in this study, so basically they looked at a bunch of stuff and concluded that the trends they saw were not coincidences.

That didn't help much, did?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by JoshuaZ

My dermatoligist was talking about the drugs, and said that there was a risk of depression...

When I was younger I was on those drugs and I did get depressed. It wasn't anything good to mess with, and it was a lot worse than I probably ever would have felt for having a few zits.

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Miniryu

I would have rather had pimples than lose my scholarship to UCLA, but to each his own. Can we just settle on the agreement that the drug is "very effective"?

Yes of course

cheers

W-Y

[Weyland-Yutani]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

I know a bunch of people who did the acutain route. In the about 5 people I know it worked 100% in 1 of them.

Do you know if any of them suffered any kind of depression during the treatment period or shortly after?

cheers

W-Y

[ambush]

right now in this room there's an ugly kind who thinks he's einstein but he's not taken a single course of physics/cehm and he's talking about astrophysics like he actually knows about it.

i want to kill him

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by ambush

right now in this room there's an ugly kind who thinks he's einstein but he's not taken a single course of physics/cehm and he's talking about astrophysics like he actually knows about it.

i want to kill him

Slip some acutane in his drink, maybe he'll do it himself.

[thunderous_funker]

My first reaction is that the correlation is self-esteem.

People who are happy with themselves rarely go in for self-destructive and anti-social behavior. Pot isn't the gateway (nor is ugliness) --low self esteem is, IMO.

[porieux]

...

[loki74]

Originally Posted by Miniryu

Its always correlational unless there is an experiment done- meaning an independant variable has to be manipulated to see how a dependant variable will react. Nothing was manipulated in this study, so basically they looked at a bunch of stuff and concluded that the trends they saw were not coincidences.

That didn't help much, did?

lol not really... i think what youve said is basically the smart version of what i was trying to say--an experiment showing causality (thus requiring the independent/dependent variebles). additionally, it would have to be repeatable wiile still getting pretty much the same results.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by thunderous_funker

My first reaction is that the correlation is self-esteem.

People who are happy with themselves rarely go in for self-destructive and anti-social behavior. Pot isn't the gateway (nor is ugliness) --low self esteem is, IMO.

Yeah, I think you're on to something there. It makes sense, and it explains how plenty of attractive people still commit crimes, and how some ugly people never do. They should be doing more tests to find ways to correlate low-self esteem to criminal behavior, and do something to help these kids before they end up damaging their futures.

Ha ha! What am I saying? Why would the mental health, medical, or scientific community be involved with preventative treatment? They are only interested in find solutions to problems once they exist because that is where the money is. Why would they want to stop a problem before it starts?

[strictlyplaid]

Originally Posted by Severed Hand of Skywalker

"Not only are physically unattractive teenagers likely to be stay-at-homes on prom night, they're also more likely to grow up to be criminals, say two economists who tracked the life course of young people from high school through early adulthood."

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/articl...NGRIHAT6I1.DTL

If that's true, MacNN must be one of the most dangerous places on the internet.

[RAILhead]