[Cody Dawg]

Link

If you only make $70K a year here in South Florida you qualify for housing assistance.

People making moderate incomes -- up to $69,720 a year -- might soon join the ranks of the city's poor in being eligible for housing welfare.

It's another sign that the middle class here in South Florida is really the urban poor.

With median home price now $400K in Palm Beach county, I can see why.

Things are crazy.

[turtle777]

Cut those darn government subsidies for natural disaster insurance, and things will swing back into balance.

[ambush]

can you say INFLATION?

[sek929]

You're not the only area with houses averaging 400K+, only around here there isn't assistance for those who make 70 grand (my dad makes even less AND lives in a 350K dollar house).

The middle class are the poor, expected to live in a house and raise a family, yet also expected to pay out the ass for decent accomodations.

It is really quite out of control, and for someone who builds houses for a living these artificial prices do not reflect the actual quality of the house.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

If you only make $70K a year here in South Florida you qualify for housing assistance.

It's another sign that the middle class here in South Florida is really the urban poor.

With median home price now $400K in Palm Beach county, I can see why.

Things are crazy.

Don't worry about it. You've got a way to go before things get too bad.

Average home price here (and that's for a "semi-detatched" i.e. shared wall): $352k
Average wage here: $44k

No housing assistance in that scenario.

[forkies]

i've never seen someone bitch about so many travesties (things). maybe we can start a community blog where members of the Frequent Bitching Club may complain away, much to the relief of people who don't care.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by forkies

i've never seen someone bitch about so many travesties (things). maybe we can start a community blog where members of the Frequent Bitching Club may complain away, much to the relief of people who don't care.

*sigh*

We tried to convince Cody, but it didn't work

[Cody Dawg]

I think the point worked: People post here because they find something in common.

Forkies, go post your nauseous nonsense about how much you "hate" to post in my threads somewhere else: PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS AND POST SOMEWHERE ELSE IF YOU DON'T LIKE WHAT I HAVE TO SAY HERE.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by forkies

maybe we can start a community blog where members of the Frequent Bitching Club may complain away, much to the relief of people who don't care.

Congratulations, you found it - it's called "The MacNN Lounge".

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH

forkie left money in the Lounge ? Dang.

*searching*

[macroy]

I thought this was the norm? Perhaps not the qualifying wage - but you'd expect that to continously move up...right?

Here in MD, the two counties I've lived in both have "assisted" housing. And I think that's a rule for all new subdivisions.. you have a portion thats dedicated to the "assisted".

[RAILhead]

Only in Floriduh.

[Kevin]

Dang, I could live like a KING here on 70k a year. Reminds me why I don't live in Florida.

[Big Mac]

You're right, the prices are much more reasonable on the moon.

[Doofy]

A few years back, I was watching something about some guy who'd gone to live in Latvia or somewhere.

He'd taken his British Army pension (i.e. monthly income not really enough for a good night out - $300, something like that) and gone to live like a king. The guy was very, very average (beer gut, balding, bit of a slob). Yet because his income was so high in his new country he actually had women fighting over him - his girlfriend (not at all bad looking) was constantly worried that he'd leave her for someone prettier because he was, like, a zillionaire.

Eye-opening.

[andi*pandi]

70K? poor? wtf.

though you can't live like a king or queen on that here, it ain't poor.

I am not poor!

[wdlove]

Hi Cody,

I would certainly qualify for that assistance that you mention. Just wonder what kind of house we could get.

I'm available now. Hope that you are alright.

[Cody Dawg]

I guess by that income basis we're middle middle class. I guess 70K a year is lower middle class around here, apparently.

[Stradlater]

Ridiculous.

[wdlove]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I guess by that income basis we're middle middle class. I guess 70K a year is lower middle class around here, apparently.

I wish that I made even close to $70,000. In Boston I'm about middle class.

I will understand whatever decision you decide to make. Only want what is bet for my friend.

[zerostar]

I would think $70K is pretty low wages in Ft. Lauderdale? (I am assuming household wages, not 1 person)

I work in Miami and live in Martin County and even here a lot of jobs pay well over $150K

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

You're right, the prices are much more reasonable on the moon.

You should see the killer weed we have up here.

[fhoubi]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Only in Floriduh.

Nice comparison on your WS btw. I think I am sold.

[besson3c]

So here is a question... Is location everything? If you could easily get a job somewhere else, would you give up a particular location? What if this new location would allow you to buy a much larger and awesomer house? Is a great house important, or just some sort of house in an ideal location?

I don't know exactly what I'm trying to ask, but answer away... curious to hear what you think.

[Fireball XL5]

My cardboard box does me just fine.

[greenamp]

Some high rise condos in downtown Nashville are going for $1 million a pop. They are selling out like crazy too. There is even a high rise complex that has sold out it's available condos, and it hasn't even been completed yet.

[The Godfather]

We should deport all rich people back to their states

[TailsToo]

It's sad. I was planning on moving back to South Florida in a few years, but by that time, all of my friends and family that live there will have been forced to move, since it's becoming so expensive. Looks like my next home won't be there.

I remember considering buying a house in West Palm in 1999 that was going for about $70k, but i thought that it was a little expensive. Now, an empty LOT in the same area will fetch $220k.

So if the average income in the US is still about $35k, how are these homes going for so much??? I don't recall all that many high paying jobs in South Florida either.

[Briareus]

If I sold my house I'd make a tidy profit, but wouldn't be able to afford to buy another place anywhere near here. Lucky to get into a house when I did, I guess.

There's so much condo construction going on (all over SoFla, but I'll just ponder downtown Miami skyline of cranes) and I have a feeling that most of it is just being bought/sold for investment flipping. I won't be surprised if very few people end up actually living in these things.

[macroy]

Originally Posted by TailsToo

It's sad. I was planning on moving back to South Florida in a few years, but by that time, all of my friends and family that live there will have been forced to move, since it's becoming so expensive. Looks like my next home won't be there.

I remember considering buying a house in West Palm in 1999 that was going for about $70k, but i thought that it was a little expensive. Now, an empty LOT in the same area will fetch $220k.

So if the average income in the US is still about $35k, how are these homes going for so much??? I don't recall all that many high paying jobs in South Florida either.

My guess (and its only that, I have very little knowledge of FLA) is that most of these owners are not locals? Vacation homes? Retired folks? I know for instance we take annual golf trips out to Palm Springs and Phoenix area.. the multi-million dollar homes there are not typically owned by the "working man". More so for Palm Springs, we go there in the summer to take advantage of the low greens fees... and its virutally a ghost town. All the fairway side condo's are empty as the owners are elsewhere during the summer.

Must be nice to own a 2+ million dollar condo that you only use a quarter of the year.

I'm also gonna guess you have a lot of international buyers. I've heard a lot of Asian businessmen who made it big in real estate buy Fla properties (although this was back in the 90's). And they do it with cash... or most of it. I've heard some will finance 3-5% just so they can establish credit here in the states.

[wdlove]

I'm very happy where I live right now. The housing appreciation has been crazy over the the 10 years.

[Angelo78]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Dang, I could live like a KING here on 70k a year. Reminds me why I don't live in Florida.

Wow, it is reasonable!

http://www.paramountzone.com/moon.htm

[olePigeon]

Try living in San Jose as a teacher. $19,000 a year starting base salary, $450,000 for a 2 bedroom. $19,000 doesn't even qualify for low-income for an individual. If you work really, really had for 20+ years as a teacher, you'll get to look forward to $68,000 a year.

That is, of course, if you work 20+ years constantly at the same school and never, ever leave. If you decide to leave or have to leave for some reason, then try and reapply with that kind of experience? Good luck. They're going to take the college grade at $19k over someone with 20+ years experience at $68k.

My mom went through that scenario. Living in nice 4 bedroom house before the Real Estate boom. Went to teach at a private school for 3 years, tried to get back into public school system, no one will hire with 20 years experience. 3 years later, sell house... 5 years later, sell the town-house... 2 years later, move out of the state of California. Just can't afford to live there as a single mom on a teacher's salary when no f*cking school will pay it.

God damn it I hate this sh*t. There just isn't enough money for schools.

[Spliffdaddy]

There's plenty of money for schools. Heck, that's what fully one-third of our taxes are used for.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

There's plenty of money for schools. Heck, that's what fully one-third of our taxes are used for.

So where the f*ck are my taxes going? Come by my work (school) sometime. You'll be impressed by the leaking celings, crumbling portables, the tables falling apart, and our state-of-the-art 300Mhz PII computer lab with Windows98.

I'd love to see some of that money here.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

So where the f*ck are my taxes going? Come by my work (school) sometime. You'll be impressed by the leaking celings, crumbling portables, the tables falling apart, and our state-of-the-art 300Mhz PII computer lab with Windows98.

I'd love to see some of that money here.

I would ask the board of education what they are spending it on.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I would ask the board of education what they are spending it on.

Probably the scaled salaries for administration. $100K + for a vice-principal. Meanwhile good teachers who work 10 times harder are getting laid off. Public education needs a major overhall, that's one of the few Republican agendas I admire. Not the private schools, but a revamp of the existing system to identify qualified teachers and get them the money they deserve.

[Kevin]

Tenure needs done away with.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Tenure needs done away with.

Go into education, or marry someone who is a teacher already, and you'll change your perspective on that.

My wife has taught 1st grade going on five years now. She is one of the best teachers at her school, and I'm not just saying that b/c of bias. She got tenure by the skin of her teeth, and only b/c her principle at the time fought for it.

Without tenure and even with tenure in many cases, school systems will simply layoff new teachers once they reach a higher salary bracket, regardless of his/her performance. They do this b/c it's far easier to hire a fresh outta college teacher at a pitifully low starting salary, than it is to actually balance the budget and use their education money wisely.

(the following is not aimed at anyone, I'm just speaking generally here)
It never ceases to amaze me how the public can generally place such a low value on education. The educating of it's future generations is the single most important investment of a society.

Yes the public education system as a whole in the USA is flawed to many degrees, but that's hardly the fault of Teachers. It's the fault of politically motivated officials who have essentially turned public education into subsidized daycare. Both liberals and conservatives have used public education as platforms from which they hurl political pot-shots at each other and push their own agendas. And when the smoke clears it's the teachers and principles who are left to clean up the mess, while the left and right argue over whose responsible for the carnage.

[Rumor]

Average cost of a home: $425000
Average household wage: $50000

Pretty sad here. You have to have two people working two jobs to pay off the mortgage.

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I would ask the board of education what they are spending it on.

I've always wondered that too. There are constant complaints that the budget isn't enough, but doesn't most of the money from the sale of lottery tickets go to education? If the CA state lottery can afford to pay prizes upwards of $100 million, should there be a problem with education funding?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Go into education, or marry someone who is a teacher already, and you'll change your perspective on that.

My wife has taught 1st grade going on five years now. She is one of the best teachers at her school, and I'm not just saying that b/c of bias. She got tenure by the skin of her teeth, and only b/c her principle at the time fought for it.

Without tenure and even with tenure in many cases, school systems will simply layoff new teachers once they reach a higher salary bracket, regardless of his/her performance. They do this b/c it's far easier to hire a fresh outta college teacher at a pitifully low starting salary, than it is to actually balance the budget and use their education money wisely.

Then that needs to be dealt with. Tenure is not the answer. It keeps way too many horrible teachers in jobs.

And sometimes, once a teacher gets tenure, they simple stop caring, or trying.

They simply can't get fired.

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Then that needs to be dealt with. Tenure is not the answer. It keeps way too many horrible teachers in jobs.

And sometimes, once a teacher gets tenure, they simple stop caring, or trying.

They simply can't get fired.

That's not true either - it's just more difficult to fire them aka they need an actual, documented reason. An untenured teacher can be let go without cause.

http://www.education-world.com/a_issues/issues359.shtml

[Spliffdaddy]

I blame the NEA.

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by Rumor

I've always wondered that too. There are constant complaints that the budget isn't enough, but doesn't most of the money from the sale of lottery tickets go to education? If the CA state lottery can afford to pay prizes upwards of $100 million, should there be a problem with education funding?

I doubt much goes to each individual school from the lottery.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by greenamp

Without tenure and even with tenure in many cases, school systems will simply layoff new teachers once they reach a higher salary bracket, regardless of his/her performance. They do this b/c it's far easier to hire a fresh outta college teacher at a pitifully low starting salary, than it is to actually balance the budget and use their education money wisely.

Exactly.

[Spliffdaddy]

If people are willing to work for a low wage in a given field of endeavour, then it stands to reason that a high wage isn't gonna happen.

If money is the most important aspect of teaching, then you'd be well-advised to seek another profession.

I agree teaching is important. But so is law enforcement and the military. While those risk life and limb, they don't pay high wages either.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

That's not true either - it's just more difficult to fire them aka they need an actual, documented reason.

And said reason wont be "Bad teacher" it has to be something far worse.

[f1000]

Bah, South Florida ain't nothing. I bet median house prices per square foot in places like D.C., Boston, and Manhattan would make those in South Florida seem cheap in comparison.

[The Godfather]

So? 50% of the houses in 10 counties of the U.S.A. are unaffordable. This is no reason to panic, unless you are renting in such counties and want to buy an above-average house.

Isn't most people who are buying these 1/2-million-dollar houses professionals in 2 income households, with grown up kids, who are upgrading homes for the 3rd time? There's no shame in performing below these individuals.