[hickey]

this kid was one of my best friends, I will truly miss him forever. Please pray for him as you all did recently for Laura Kelley. Aaron Brown

I've never lost a friend that was so close to me.

[DigitalEl]

I feel bad for those left to mourn, but what a dumb thing to die over... An alleged dine & dash from IHOP. Wow.

[Spliffdaddy]

Every good life is lost for a pointless reason.

I'll say a prayer for the family and friends of Aaron - and for the police officer who discovered that a momentary bad decision has diminished his own life along with the lives of many.

I'm truly sorry for your loss.

[ambush]

I hope you recover soon.

[Kevin]

Truly sad. Count me in on the prayer list.

[Chuckit]

The officer was cleared of wrongdoing when he killed somebody instead of just taking down a license plate number? How sick.

[hickey]

supposedly the cop said they were driving right at him at a very fast rate after he ordered them to stop before they got in the car. take down the plate numbers, dont murder an innocent kid.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The officer was cleared of wrongdoing when he killed somebody instead of just taking down a license plate number? How sick.

Originally Posted by hickey

supposedly the cop said they were driving right at him at a very fast rate after he ordered them to stop before they got in the car. take down the plate numbers, dont murder an innocent kid.

If the kid was part of the dine-n-dash he was NOT innocent.

Yes, the accidental death of a young person is sad but this kid, and all the kids in that car, knowingly put themselves in danger. While I feel bad for the kid that got killed I feel worse that the cop didn't get the kid who was driving.

Actions have consequences, frequently un-intended consequences. This time, the kid driving the car who tried to run over a cop, has his friend's death as a consequence of his actions.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. Some kids do a dine-n-dash and then when they get caught, instead of submitting to the punishment like they should have, they try and escape and almost run over a cop. They're lucky they are not all dead.

Sorry. No sympathy from me.

[wdlove]

My prayers go out to the family and friends of Aaron Brown. May he rest in peace. May you be comforted by these words also. Such a tragic thing to have happen.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

If the kid was part of the dine-n-dash he was NOT innocent.

Yes, the accidental death of a young person is sad but this kid, and all the kids in that car, knowingly put themselves in danger. While I feel bad for the kid that got killed I feel worse that the cop didn't get the kid who was driving.

Actions have consequences, frequently un-intended consequences. This time, the kid driving the car who tried to run over a cop, has his friend's death as a consequence of his actions.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. Some kids do a dine-n-dash and then when they get caught, instead of submitting to the punishment like they should have, they try and escape and almost run over a cop. They're lucky they are not all dead.

Sorry. No sympathy from me.

I am really quite shocked by your callousness.

A life for the freaking price of a meal? Come on.
All teens do stupid things. Should they have been given a stern talking to? Of course. But pull a gun and shoot a passenger? Get a sense of proportion.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

If the kid was part of the dine-n-dash he was NOT innocent.

Yes, the accidental death of a young person is sad but this kid, and all the kids in that car, knowingly put themselves in danger. While I feel bad for the kid that got killed I feel worse that the cop didn't get the kid who was driving.

Actions have consequences, frequently un-intended consequences. This time, the kid driving the car who tried to run over a cop, has his friend's death as a consequence of his actions.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. Some kids do a dine-n-dash and then when they get caught, instead of submitting to the punishment like they should have, they try and escape and almost run over a cop. They're lucky they are not all dead.

Sorry. No sympathy from me.

You should be shot for being so callous. Hey, actions have consequences, right?

The officer should have just stood out of the way and taken down the license plate number. What he should not have done is shoot somebody. Much like I should not shoot you for holding a differing opinion, even though that would be a consequence.

[hickey]

thanks dcmacdaddy, you're really making this situation a whole lot easier.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

If the kid was part of the dine-n-dash he was NOT innocent.

Yes, the accidental death of a young person is sad but this kid, and all the kids in that car, knowingly put themselves in danger. While I feel bad for the kid that got killed I feel worse that the cop didn't get the kid who was driving.

Actions have consequences, frequently un-intended consequences. This time, the kid driving the car who tried to run over a cop, has his friend's death as a consequence of his actions.

It's kinda crazy when you think about it. Some kids do a dine-n-dash and then when they get caught, instead of submitting to the punishment like they should have, they try and escape and almost run over a cop. They're lucky they are not all dead.

Sorry. No sympathy from me.

[James L]

If the vehicle was departing the parking lot in a direction that did not threaten the officer attempting to stop them, then I fully believe that this was a bad shooting, and the officer should be held liable.

If the vehicle was departing the parking lot in a direction and speed that posed a DIRECT threat to the officer attempting to stop them, then he met force with force to defend himself. This would be a justified shooting. It would not be a case of someone getting shot for stealing a meal... it would be a case of someone getting shot for trying to run over a police officer. If this is the case, the officer had every right to defend himself. If this was the way it played out, you have been watching too much tv to think that you can take down, and recall, a license plate number of a vehicle bearing down directly on you at a high rate of speed.

I won't make judgment based on internet article that offered little in the way of information on what really happened. I wasn't there.

Either way though, a life was lost that didn't need to be.

My thoughts go out to you hickey. I have lost several close friends. It always sucks.

[smacintush]

We all miss those we love when they die, but death is not a "tragedy". Every thing and every life ends. It's as natural as any other part of life.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You should be shot for being so callous. Hey, actions have consequences, right?

The officer should have just stood out of the way and taken down the license plate number. What he should not have done is shoot somebody. Much like I should not shoot you for holding a differing opinion, even though that would be a consequence.

But if you did shoot me for being callous or holding a different opinion there would be consequences, for you, for your actions.

Why is everyone harping on the cop here and not on the kids who broke multiple laws?
Why are all the "law-and-order" types on this forum not congratulating the cop for doing his job?

[dcmacdaddy]

Here is the story from today's Washington Post.


Va. Teen Killed When Off-Duty Officer Fires at Approaching SUV
By Jamie Stockwell
Washington Post Staff Writer
Sunday, February 26, 2006; C04

An 18-year-old was killed by police early yesterday after he and a group of friends left an Alexandria restaurant without paying, got into an SUV and then tried to hit an off-duty police officer, who fired at the vehicle, striking a passenger, police said.

Police said Aaron R. Brown of Springfield was pronounced dead at the scene, a tiny parking lot outside the International House of Pancakes in the 6200 block of Duke Street. Brown was with three friends, who were not injured in the 3:40 a.m. shooting, police said. The Alexandria officer, a part-time security guard at the restaurant, also was not hurt.

The officer, a 13-year member of the department whom police would not identify, was put on administrative leave, said Capt. John Crawford, a police spokesman.

"We have so many victims involved in this case, from the 18-year-old who was killed to his friends who were with him to the officer, who made a split-second decision he will have to live with forever. We rely on our training and hope we make the right decision every time," Crawford said outside the restaurant yesterday. "It's a tragedy every way you look at it. "

Crawford said the officer, who was in uniform, was told by a restaurant employee that the teenagers had walked out on their bill.

The officer ran out to the parking lot, a tight space shared by IHOP patrons and guests at the Comfort Inn to which the restaurant is attached, and tried to stop the youths from fleeing. He stepped into the path of the 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Crawford said, and, "fearing for his safety," shot at the sport-utility vehicle.

Brown, sitting behind the driver, was struck. It was not immediately known how many shots were fired, Crawford said.

Police said the Jeep's driver, identified as 19-year-old Stephen J. Smith of Alexandria, was arrested shortly after the incident and charged with driving while intoxicated and possession of marijuana. He was released on bond yesterday afternoon, said Amy Bertsch, a police spokeswoman.

Crawford said the findings of internal investigations will be forwarded to Alexandria's chief prosecutor, S. Randolph Sengel, who will decide whether the shooting was justified. The case will also be sent to the Federal Bureau of Investigation for an independent review, Crawford said, as well as to a civilian group that reviews all police-involved incidents.

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

[Jawbone54]

Horrible tragedy, regardless.

My prayers are with the family and friends.

[hickey]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

He stepped into the path of the 1995 Jeep Grand Cherokee, Crawford said, and, "fearing for his safety," shot at the sport-utility vehicle

Personally, this is exactly why I feel the shooting was not justified. He could have focused on getting the plate numbers, rather than putting his life in danger for having an immediate solution to not paying the bill.

I am a little biased though, considering I am sticking up for my good friend.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

But if you did shoot me for being callous or holding a different opinion there would be consequences, for you, for your actions.

Not if, like this cop, I was randomly excused for shooting you without reasonable provocation.

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Why is everyone harping on the cop here and not on the kids who broke multiple laws?
Why are all the "law-and-order" types on this forum not congratulating the cop for doing his job?

Because unreasonable use of deadly force is not his damn job. Don't know about you, but I think murder is worse than a dine-and-dash.

[James L]

Originally Posted by hickey

Personally, this is exactly why I feel the shooting was not justified. He could have focused on getting the plate numbers, rather than putting his life in danger for having an immediate solution to not paying the bill.

I am a little biased though, considering I am sticking up for my good friend.

Well, the article is still a little unclear, imho. I am involved often in calls that end up in the media, and rarely are they reported correctly... by a reporter that was not there and is often going on conjecture and third party accounts.

This article, for example, says at one point that the driver, under the influence, tried to run the officer over. It later says that the officer purposely steps in the way. Odds are the truth lies somewhere in between.

All the same, I feel your loss.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by hickey

Personally, this is exactly why I feel the shooting was not justified. He could have focused on getting the plate numbers, rather than putting his life in danger for having an immediate solution to not paying the bill.

I am a little biased though, considering I am sticking up for my good friend.

Why have you yet to castigate the driver of the vehicle for not stopping when confronted by a police officer with a drawn weapon?

This is the same driver who was legally intoxicated, although two years under the legal age for alcohol purchase/possession, and in possession of marijuana. Aren't you a little pissed that your friend would knowingly get in a car with a drunk person who would be driving? Aren't you the least bit pissed at the driver for being so reckless as to endanger the lives of five people (the police officer, himself, and three passengers)?

By all means, grieve for you lost friend and his lost potential but your friend and the driver bear as much, if not more, of the responsibility for his own death than the police officer does. Your friend had multiple opportunities to choose a different course of action that night--from not driving around with a drunk person to offering to pay for the meal after the others bolted to encouraging the driver to stop when confronted by the officer--that might have him be alive today.

Like I said before, all of our actions have consequences, most of them un-intended. But because certain consequences occur we did not intend nor want to happen does not make us any less responsible for our actions. I'm sorry you lost a friend but his death is due to his actions and those of the driver MUCH more than to the police officer.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Why have you yet to castigate the driver of the vehicle for not stopping when confronted by a police officer with a drawn weapon?

Why have you yet to castigate the man who needlessly shot a kid dead?

Clearly, some of us feel that getting shot wasn't a foreseeable consequence until the dipshit officer intentionally stepped in front of the ****ing car and shot them.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Why have you yet to castigate the man who needlessly shot a kid dead?

That's the whole debate right there. You assume his actions were needless whereas I don't. The police officer needed to do something to try and stop the car. Unfortunately his actions got a passenger killed. But like I said in the rest of my post--which you failed to quote or reply to in any way--the passenger had numerous opportunities that night to choose a different course of action that would result in him being alive right now. But he didn't. And the indirect result of his choices proved sufficient to result in his own death.

The thing is, this was NOT an accidental death. This wasn't someone skidding on ice or having a tire blow-out, cross the median-strip and hitting someone head on in another car. There were a whole series of choices made that led up to this action.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Clearly, some of us feel that getting shot wasn't a foreseeable consequence until the dipshit officer intentionally stepped in front of the ****ing car and shot them.

He fired, from what we know, after the vehicle made no effort to stop. Again, what would have happened if the driver stopped? Four kids getting busted for a dine-n-dash and possession. Everyone going home ALIVE to furious parents.

But all this is irrelevant. Whether or not you foresee a consequence to your choices does NOT absolve you of responsibility for the consequences that do occur from making a choice.

[Chuckit]

The police officer also could have made choices — such as simply stepping out of the way when he felt he was in danger — that would not have led to him killing a kid. He chose to kill when he didn't have to. Killing somebody is not an acceptable way to stop a dine-and-dash. The kid did something wrong, but not something deserving of death. Whatever the kid did wrong, it was the police officer who made the choices (artificially creating danger and then choosing to respond with force rather than escaping) that directly led to the death in this situation.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Every good life is lost for a pointless reason.

I'd like to think that some good people don't die in vain.

Regardless, this is an unfortunate loss and the police officer will have to live with his mistake.

[hickey]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

We rely on our training and hope we make the right decision every time

so they dont train them to attempt to stop a vehicle at all, just try and kill someone inside?

In all car chases, I believe the cops try and disable the vehicle to prevent it from going any further, not force the driver off a damn cliff to kill him.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Killing somebody is not an acceptable way to stop a dine-and-dash.

Trying to run over a police officer, if that is what really happened, IS an acceptable reason for that police officer to kill someone. Don't believe me? Try to run down a cop next time you see one standing on the side of the road. Unless he has his back turned to you you are likely to wind up dead or wounded . . . as you should be.

[KeriVit]

Regardless of how anyone feels, it is a tragic event ion the stupid lives of teens. I have done worse and I can't imagine losing my 17 yo bro over such a lack of judgement.

I'm sorry for your loss of a friend. He is far too young not to have a good afterlife.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Why is everyone harping on the cop here and not on the kids who broke multiple laws?
Why are all the "law-and-order" types on this forum not congratulating the cop for doing his job?

Because the punishment far outweighed the crime. Were these teens idiots? Of course they were. But to pull a gun and shoot into the passenger compartment when all the officer needed to do was to step back, take down the plate, call in to the station and have a car waiting for the driver at home is inexcusable. I hope this guy gets fired because he has no place in the police.

We rely on our police force to make the right decisions, not to to kill kids who decide it's a lark to run from a restaurant.

dcmacdaddy, I am shocked and appalled by your attitude.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Because the punishment far outweighed the crime. Were these teens idiots? Of course they were. But to pull a gun and shoot when all the officer needed to do was to step back, take down the plate, call in to the station and have a car waiting for the driver at home is inexcusable. I hope this guy gets fired because he has no place in the police.

We rely on our police force to make the right decisions, not to to kill kids who decide it's a lark to run from a restaurant and try to run over a police officer.

Fixed.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

dcmacdaddy, I am shocked and appalled by your attitude.

Mas, on your next trip to the States please try and run over an American police officer and tell me if they shoot at you to make you stop. Thanks!

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Fixed.

Bullshit. All he needed to do was to step back, take down the number and let the proper channels deal with the situation. Not to fire blindly into a moving car regardless of who he was putting at risk.

We rely on the police to behave responsibly, not to shoot first, ask questions later.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Mas, on your next trip to the States please try and run over an American police officer and tell me if they shoot at you to make you stop. Thanks!

Of for ****'s sake. As I've said, the teens, and especially the driver, were idiots. But that does not excuse the officer's handling of the situation. He had the chance to step back, take the number and get the driver when there was no risk to passengers or other bystanders. Instead he fired into a moving car, with no regard for safety or justice.

If you honestly believe that this was justified then I am left speechless.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

Of for ****'s sake. As I've said, the teens, and especially the driver, were idiots. But that does not excuse the officer's handling of the situation. He had the chance to step back, take the number and get the driver when there was no risk to passengers or other bystanders. Instead he fired into a moving car, with no regard for safety or justice.

If you honestly believe that this was justified then I am left speechless.

You are left speechless.

[Kevin]

dc regardless of how you feel about the situation, this isn't a thread to be starting one of your inane arguments.

If you want to discuss such a thing, start a new topic. Preferably in the PL.

[Mastrap]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

You are left speechless.

I certainly am. Here's to hoping you never make any stupid mistakes that leave you dead yourself in your life.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

I certainly am. Here's to hoping you never make any stupid mistakes that leave you dead yourself in your life.

I too hope I don't do something stupid that leaves me dead. But if I do, guess what, it will be because of MY stupidity not somebody elses.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Kevin

dc regardless of how you feel about the situation, this isn't a thread to be starting one of your inane arguments.

If you want to discuss such a thing, start a new topic. Preferably in the PL.

Thanks for the suggestion. See the Poli/War lounge for the appropriate thread.

[hickey]

if your so sure it was Aarons fault that he was killed, why dont you come to the funeral and tell that to his friends and family.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by hickey

if your so sure it was Aarons fault that he was killed, why dont you come to the funeral and tell that to his friends and family.

Why not? I'm right here in the DC area. Do you know where it is or should I look up the obituary in the paper? PM me if you have the details.

I know exacly what I would say to them too.
"I am SO sorry for the loss of your son/friend. I wish he had chosen not to go out that night. It's such a shame he wound up riding in a car with someone who was intoxicated and who tried to run over a police officer."

And that is how I feel. It IS a shame he died, no doubt about it. There is a great loss of potential that the world will never know because of his early death. It is also a shame that - he was out riding around in a car with a drunk person behind the wheel; he chose to participate in a dine-n-dash scenario with some friends; he got back into a car with a drunk person behind the wheel.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Why not? I'm right here in the DC area. Do you know where it is or should I look up the obituary in the paper? PM me if you have the details.

I know exacly what I would say to them too.
"I am SO sorry for the loss of your son/friend. I wish he had chosen not to go out that night. It's such a shame he wound up riding in a car with someone who was intoxicated and who tried to run over a police officer."

And that is how I feel. It IS a shame he died, no doubt about it. There is a great loss of potential that the world will never know because of his early death. It is also a shame that - he was out riding around in a car with a drunk person behind the wheel; he chose to participate in a dine-n-dash scenario with some friends; he got back into a car with a drunk person behind the wheel.

Please please please save some face here.

[hickey]

PM sent

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by Stradlater

Please please please save some face here.

Oh, I would never go. That would be dis-respectful to the family. I am just calling out hickey for making stupid juvenile challenges.

The thing is, if I ever did encounter these folks on the street, I would say what I outlined above, it IS a shame their son got into a car with a drunk person behind the wheel who tried to run over a police officer. Because to me, that action is just a much of a shame as the loss of the kids life.

Sure, many of us have done something similar, I have, but in this kids case his decision to ride with someone who was drunk cost him his life. Heck, I had a Big Brother when I was a kid--He lived up the street and for years I hung out with while he worked on his car--and he was killed in a car accident where he was the only one not drunk. But he was not wearing a seat-belt and he got thrown from the car when his drunk friend at the wheel rolled over on a snowy road in Vermont.

Crazy sh!t like that happens all the time. But he was just as much at fault in his own death for being sober and letting a drunk friend drive. as the driver was.

[hickey]

as I said in my PM dcmacdaddy, sorry I was such an ass on this thread, its been a tough weekend dealing with this. and sadly, I wont even be able to make it to the funeral, I cant get away from school and work to make it.

[dcmacdaddy]

Originally Posted by hickey

PM sent

Like I said, to go to the funeral would be dis-respectful to the family. It is their time to grieve for their son and my presence would do nothing to provide them comfort. I am some strange schlub who read the story and thought "What the F^ck?!?". If I went to the funeral my presence there would be about me and not about their son and that would be horrifically self-indulgent and dis-respectful towards them.

[demograph68]

It sounds as tragic as this thread.

[jasonsRX7]

Sorry for your loss, and hope that if nothing else you learn from his mistakes and try to associate with friends who make better judgments, on their behalf and on behalf of their friends.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by dcmacdaddy

Thanks for the suggestion. See the Poli/War lounge for the appropriate thread.

You only took half my suggestion. You not only started a thread about this in the PL, you continued to much up this one as well.