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cmeisenzahl · Mar 9, 2006, 10:21 AM

or think of it? I'd heard the term but didn't really know what it meant.

Anyway, I posted a bunch of stuff on it last night along w/ a link to an article in yesterday's WSJ.
http://amateureconblog.blogspot.com/...velopment.html

turtle777 · 10:32 AM

My basic understanding:

reclaiming the cities, reviving them, making them a place to work AND live.

Most US cities are either ghettos or financial centers. Few have an inner city where people live and work (like NY, Seattle, SF). In Europe, the mix is much more towards working AND living in the same place. the whole suburbia phenomenon is a dead end.

-t

wdlove · Mar 9, 2006, 01:22 PM

I don't mind urban life as much as I thought that I might. So now I'm for Urbanism.

D'Espice · Mar 9, 2006, 03:04 PM

I consider it a necessary and unavoidable step. Suburbanization basically killed the inner cities and now certain people are claiming the inner cities back. You could tell this would happen; suburbia, as nice as some consider it, is not the best way to live. It's a great way for sure but I for one would not consider moving to a suburb if there's the possibility of living in town, close to work, my friends and night life.

New Urbanism is the necessary counter movement to Suburbanism/suburbanization

willed · Mar 9, 2006, 05:54 PM

Suburbia seems to be a pretty horrible place from where I am, but then I guess I got most of my views of it from American Beauty (ie suburbia as the American dystopia).

Doofy · Mar 9, 2006, 06:12 PM

Sprawling on the fringes of the city
In geometric order
An insulated border
In between the bright lights
And the far unlit unknown

Growing up it all seems so one-sided
Opinions all provided
The future pre-decided
Detached and subdivided
In the mass production zone
Nowhere is the dreamer
Or the misfit so alone

Subdivisions ---
In the high school halls
In the shopping malls
Conform or be cast out
Subdivisions ---
In the basement bars
In the backs of cars
Be cool or be cast out

Any escape might help to smooth
The unattractive truth
But the suburbs have no charms to soothe
The restless dreams of youth

Drawn like moths we drift into the city
The timeless old attraction
Cruising for the action
Lit up like a firefly
Just to feel the living night

Some will sell their dreams for small desires
Or lose the race to rats
Get caught in ticking traps
And start to dream of somewhere
To relax their restless flight
Somewhere out of a memory
Of lighted streets on quiet nights...

Paco500 · Mar 10, 2006, 12:12 AM

Since he didn't feel the need to attribute, it's Rush.

Was that your yearbook quote?

Ozmodiar · Mar 10, 2006, 12:43 AM

My city's going through a lot of urban renewal. Seems like a new condo/luxuary apartment building is going up every couple of weeks.

I'm glad for it.

DigitalEl · Mar 10, 2006, 04:35 AM

My city's going through a lot of urban renewal. Seems like a new condo/luxuary apartment building is going up every couple of weeks.

And that's just the thing... Luxury. Gentrification of cities is what's really going on. The uber-rich have traditionally eschewed the 'burbs for urban oases.

My wife & I would love to have a loft on the 27th floor somewhere. Reality is we can get three times the house for half the price in the suburbs... And not have to drive 25 minutes to get gas or find a grocery store. Not to mention the state of schools in "the good suburb" vs. the inner city... Or simple things like having a pool or a nice backyard, etc...

There are definitely tradeoffs. Last time this subject came up, a well-known Lounge a-hole attacked me for choosing to live where I live... But it's all about your priorities. FWIW, my wife and I have vowed to retire somewhere in a city and get that loft we passed on for practical reasons in our 30s. When space for the kids and the quality of schools are no longer a concern, "urbanism" will be an option.

My 2 cents.

CMYKid · Mar 10, 2006, 10:54 AM

Meh...anytime one tries to rehab, develop, nicen a place up a bit it's called gentrification and then all of a sudden it's magically a BAD thing.

meelk · Mar 10, 2006, 11:24 AM

the collapse of cheap oil will make living in cities like living in a hell hole.

cpt kangarooski · Mar 10, 2006, 11:50 AM

Actually, I think that largely goes the other way. Cities will remain as important as they ever were, but suburbs will become unlivable due to a lack of gas and their not being designed to get around without driving. Me, I live in a city, and I hardly use my car at all. I think that the last time I got gas was in November. I can walk in my neighborhood and get everything I need, and take public transit to go to other parts of the city or even surrounding towns.

Food and raw materials transport is still an issue for anyone that doesn't live on a farm, but of course it would be easier if we hadn't torn down the farms that surrounded cities so that we could put suburbs there. Given though, that human civilization is basically centered around cities, and always has been, I'm confident that they'll survive and remain important.

meelk · Mar 10, 2006, 04:05 PM

Originally Posted by cpt kangarooski

Actually, I think that largely goes the other way. Cities will remain as important as they ever were, but suburbs will become unlivable due to a lack of gas and their not being designed to get around without driving. Me, I live in a city, and I hardly use my car at all. I think that the last time I got gas was in November. I can walk in my neighborhood and get everything I need, and take public transit to go to other parts of the city or even surrounding towns.

Food and raw materials transport is still an issue for anyone that doesn't live on a farm, but of course it would be easier if we hadn't torn down the farms that surrounded cities so that we could put suburbs there. Given though, that human civilization is basically centered around cities, and always has been, I'm confident that they'll survive and remain important.

ahah. this arguement makes zero sense. In an oil collapse world people wont be going to their jobs, because their jobs wont be there. If you need to grow your own food, a city is NOT the place to do it.

turtle777 · Mar 10, 2006, 04:13 PM

Originally Posted by meelk

If you need to grow your own food, a city is NOT the place to do it.

But the suburb is ?

-t

Ozmodiar · Mar 10, 2006, 05:18 PM

You don't have to grow your own food when you're bigger than everyone else. And own or have access to firearms.

Dr Reducto · Mar 10, 2006, 05:38 PM

Originally Posted by meelk

ahah. this arguement makes zero sense. In an oil collapse world people wont be going to their jobs, because their jobs wont be there. If you need to grow your own food, a city is NOT the place to do it.

Quite the doomsday hypothesis.

I don't see why there wouldn't be any jobs without oil, I seem to recall society functioning fine without it before it was a commodity. In fact, city life was very big before our oil addiction.

But im sure that the oil crunch will happen overnight and we will be unable to adapt....

meelk · 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Dr Reducto

Quite the doomsday hypothesis.

I don't see why there wouldn't be any jobs without oil, I seem to recall society functioning fine without it before it was a commodity. In fact, city life was very big before our oil addiction.

But im sure that the oil crunch will happen overnight and we will be unable to adapt....

yeah? try checking population estimates from a hundred or two hundred years ago and get back to me.
wait, here I checked: http://www.prb.org/Content/Navigatio...ion_Growth.htm

"After millions of years of extremely slow growth, the human population indeed grew explosively, doubling again and again; a billion people were added between 1960 and 1975; another billion were added between 1975 and 1987. Throughout the 20th century each additional billion has been achieved in a shorter period of time. Human population entered the 20th century with 1.6 billion people and left the century with 6.1 billion."

Guess what caused most of that? Here, its a 3 letter word _ _ _

meelk · Mar 10, 2006, 06:21 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

But the suburb is ?

-t

suppose it depends on your area more than anything. how much land you have per house in the "burb"

Doofy · Mar 11, 2006, 03:33 AM

Originally Posted by meelk

"After millions of years of extremely slow growth, the human population indeed grew explosively, doubling again and again; a billion people were added between 1960 and 1975; another billion were added between 1975 and 1987. Throughout the 20th century each additional billion has been achieved in a shorter period of time. Human population entered the 20th century with 1.6 billion people and left the century with 6.1 billion."

Guess what caused most of that? Here, its a 3 letter word _ _ _

Sex is usually what causes human population growth.

Millennium · Mar 11, 2006, 07:06 AM

There are advantages to urban living. There are advantages to suburban living. It would be nice if both sides acknowledged this.

Binarymix · Mar 11, 2006, 08:49 AM

This new urbanism is happening in my city aswell. It seems the new 'in thing' to do is BUILD BRAND NEW buildings with shops on ground level and housing on the upper levels. This used to be the thing to do way back when, but it's seeing a revival, I quite like the concept. You can just trot downstairs from your luxary condo to eat at a fine dining restaurant, and then wander a few stores down and find a bar/dance club.