Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

rozwado1 · Mar 10, 2006, 05:49 AM

TiVo is killing off their lifetime plan next week, in favor of these pricing options. Current Lifetime subscriber plans will not be affected.

The price for a TiVo box and a one-year service commitment is $19.95 a month or $224 prepaid
The price for a TiVo box and a two-year service commitment is $18.95 a month or $369 prepaid
The price for a TiVo box and a three-year service commitment is $16.95 a month or $469 prepaid

So, do I buy a series2 80GB (Lifetime plan) today, or you think they may 'pull a fast one' and make me buy into the new pricing plans in a few months anyway?

Dork. · 06:58 AM

Absolutely, if you currently have a TiVo and can afford it, buy the lifetime sub.

TiVo has already gotten in trouble with the terms of the lifetime sub in the past: in 2000, TiVo changed the terms of all the lifetime subs to be for the life of the unit that the sub was bought for. I'm pretty sure it was transfereable from one unit to aonther before then. Because so many people complained, TiVo instituted a one-time transfer policy for people who owned those older units. Many people still have that transfer option in effect, and are looking to use it on a new HD TiVo if/when they come out. TiVo is not likely to make the same mistake (and alter the terms of the lifetime subscription) again.

Another reason to upgrade -- TiVo has instituted a multiple unit discount. After the first full-price subscription (normally $12.99 a month right now), all other subscriptions are $6.99 a month. But youer lifetime-subbed TiVo counts as a fully-paid unit! So, any future TiVos you get will have a cheaper subscription associated with it, as long as the lifetime TiVo is hooked up somewhere in your house and talking to the Mothership. (TiVo has not said what the pricing for the HD TiVo's will be, but TiVo reps on tivocommunity.com have said that even if the price goes up, the multi-unit discount will still be in effect.)

One thing about the new pricing plans: those are only for people who don't want to buy a TiVo unit up front: they're essentially "no money down" plans. TiVo's will still be sold through retail channels, and the subscriptions for those will still be $12.99, with whatever silly service commitment they make you sign up for now. And your existing TiVo subscription rate will not go up!

(I still think it's a mistake. TiVo pricing was complicated enough as it is, now it's downright confusing!)

scaught · Mar 10, 2006, 12:33 PM

with the new pricing plans, you basically get a free 80 hour tivo, right?

ChrisF · Mar 10, 2006, 02:32 PM

Originally Posted by scaught

with the new pricing plans, you basically get a free 80 hour tivo, right?

No, because you have to keep paying for it month after month. The lifetime subscription was the same as 23 months of service at $299. Figuring that the 80 hour Tivo was around $150 (varies depending on rebates, etc.) that comes to $449 total, with no more charges. There's nothing free in the new Tivo pricing plans.

Dakar · Mar 10, 2006, 02:35 PM

I guess you can't blame them with Satellite and Cable services horning in on their market.

That said I think it's like $5 extra dollars a month to use cable DVR so what retard would go with Tivo?

mdc · Mar 10, 2006, 02:45 PM

Dakar, that's my thought. I am paying cable as it is for a box, why not spend the $9 a month extra for a HD DVR. It works for me.

Dork. · Mar 10, 2006, 04:02 PM

Originally Posted by mdc

Dakar, that's my thought. I am paying cable as it is for a box, why not spend the $9 a month extra for a HD DVR. It works for me.

Because it doesn't work for everyone. I had the Time Warner DVR for a week before taking it back because it was too clunky to use. The TiVo just works, and there's a very active community involved with hacking it to change to a bigger hard drive and add more features.

We don't have digital cable, and brought back our converter box years ago: we just watch our unscrambled analog channels directly on the TiVo.

Dork. · Mar 10, 2006, 04:04 PM

Originally Posted by scaught

with the new pricing plans, you basically get a free 80 hour tivo, right?

With the new pricing plans, you get a new TiVo with no money down. The premium you pay above the normal $12.99 subscription is kind of the "purchase price" for the TiVo. But no doubt it will be advertised as a "Free TiVo with a Service Committment", even though it isn't.

rozwado1 · Mar 10, 2006, 06:21 PM

80 hour TiVos are $30 after MIR at compusa right now.

Dork. · Mar 10, 2006, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by rozwado1

80 hour TiVos are $30 after MIR at compusa right now.

wow. For that price, you could probably buy one, put a bigger HD in it (What can you get nowadays for $70?), buy the lifetime sub for $300, then in a month or so, after it's impossible to buy a TiVo with a lifetime sub any other way, flip it on E-bay for much more than $400....

thunderous_funker · Mar 11, 2006, 07:11 AM

Originally Posted by Dork.

Because it doesn't work for everyone. I had the Time Warner DVR for a week before taking it back because it was too clunky to use. The TiVo just works, and there's a very active community involved with hacking it to change to a bigger hard drive and add more features.

We don't have digital cable, and brought back our converter box years ago: we just watch our unscrambled analog channels directly on the TiVo.

Glad I've got Comcast. 2-tuner DVR for $9/mo. Works fantastic. Even automatically buffers up to 90 mintues of whatever channel you're watching. So, as long as you don't change channels, you can rewind all the way back. Tune 1 tuner to one sporting event, the other tuner to another. Swap back and forth (rather than changing channels) during commercial breaks or whatever and never miss a beat cuz you can always rewind.

Suh-weet.

wdlove · Mar 11, 2006, 09:39 AM

No thank you. I would rather have something from Apple.

BRussell · Mar 11, 2006, 10:05 AM

I don't understand why you can't just buy one of these machines and just use it. Why do you need to keep paying for it on subscription?

Dork. · Mar 11, 2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by BRussell

I don't understand why you can't just buy one of these machines and just use it. Why do you need to keep paying for it on subscription?

Because in order for it to function properly, it needs TV guide data so it knows what shows are on. Newer TiVos are crippled to not function without this data. Maybe "crippled" is not the right word, though. I have an older TiVo that can operate when not connected to the Mothership, and without its guide data it's harder to program than a standard VCR.

The main clearinghouse for TV guide data (don't remember precisely what the company name is) charges a monthly fee to license the data per device. Part of the reason that cable company DVR's are so much cheaper is that the guide data is already being paid for as part of your cable fee. TiVo users who have cable are essentially paying twice for this data. They are also paying for the bandwidth and infrastructure to deliver data to the TiVo that the cable company can do much more cheaply through it's own network.

BigBadWolf · Mar 11, 2006, 12:09 PM

Replay TV still has the $300 lifetime plan.

Kevin · Mar 11, 2006, 12:48 PM

I am just glad you don't have to get .Mac to use a Mac.

Well use most of it's features anyhow.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Mar 11, 2006, 01:19 PM

Thank God for build-it-yourself HTPCs. Pay for DVR function when a decent HTPC will do it all for free? You need a big "Hell no" on that poll.

BRussell · Mar 12, 2006, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by Dork.

Because in order for it to function properly, it needs TV guide data so it knows what shows are on. Newer TiVos are crippled to not function without this data. Maybe "crippled" is not the right word, though. I have an older TiVo that can operate when not connected to the Mothership, and without its guide data it's harder to program than a standard VCR.

The main clearinghouse for TV guide data (don't remember precisely what the company name is) charges a monthly fee to license the data per device. Part of the reason that cable company DVR's are so much cheaper is that the guide data is already being paid for as part of your cable fee. TiVo users who have cable are essentially paying twice for this data. They are also paying for the bandwidth and infrastructure to deliver data to the TiVo that the cable company can do much more cheaply through it's own network.

It sounds like a scam to me. First, there are free TV guide services. Second, people used to use VCRs to tape programs without any subscription to TV guide. You just set the thing to record for an hour at 9 on Wednesday night. I can certainly understand businesses wanting to get hold of people's credit cards for endless payments, but it makes no sense from a consumer's point of view.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Mar 12, 2006, 06:54 PM

The ‘Tivo’ concept is a bit more complicated than merely recording for an hour at a set date/time. For one thing, a lot of the digital services -cable or satellite- can’t be decoded other than from their own receiver. So even though you may set up an outside recorder for 9pm Wednesday, it won’t be able to switch the receiver to the correct channels unless you do so manually- kind of defeating the whole purpose. Alternatively- cable/sat receivers can be programmed from their own channel guides and themselves control the recording device. This would probably do for most people, but the problem is cable/sat companies want to sell their own DVR services, so their boxes rarely control anything beyond basic VCRs.

But most people want function that goes beyond ‘linear’ record scheduling anyway. IE: Pause and rewind while watching live TV. Programs recorded automatically by title, genre, subject etc, without the user even considering when/where they are actually on. A DVR just getting what you tell it you want. Multiple sources recorded at once. Tivo offers this kind of ‘set and forget’ functionality, and so people are willing to pay a service fee for it.

However, a ‘Free-vo’ HTPC with any number of free software frontends will do all that a Tivo can and a lot more, so anyone who’s made the leap would probably scratch their heads at the idea of paying Tivo for the same or lesser function.

vmarks · Mar 12, 2006, 07:10 PM

Originally Posted by BRussell

It sounds like a scam to me. First, there are free TV guide services. Second, people used to use VCRs to tape programs without any subscription to TV guide. You just set the thing to record for an hour at 9 on Wednesday night. I can certainly understand businesses wanting to get hold of people's credit cards for endless payments, but it makes no sense from a consumer's point of view.

A follow-on to Crash's comment:

TiVO is not just a digital vcr that can change the channel on sattelite and cable boxes.

You say you have to tell the vcr to start on 9pm WED and tape for one hour.

I tell Tivo with less remote button presses than your vcr to record all non-rerun episodes of The Simpsons every week.

I also tell Tivo to get all movies Clint Eastwood is attached to.

Because Tivo has the guide as a database, it can do a lot more flexible things that your vcr cannot.

The shame is that Tivo is moving from a model of ownership to a model of non-ownership.

turbopants · Mar 12, 2006, 11:56 PM

Go for lifetime now, especially if you really like the Tivo service. I think it expires in the next few days, and goes to this new setup, which I think is just a little too expensive.

Big Mac · Mar 13, 2006, 12:55 AM

Originally Posted by Dork.

wow. For that price, you could probably buy one, put a bigger HD in it (What can you get nowadays for $70?), buy the lifetime sub for $300, then in a month or so, after it's impossible to buy a TiVo with a lifetime sub any other way, flip it on E-bay for much more than $400....

That sounds like a cool idea. But is the lifetime service plan transferrable?

Paying a monthly fee for recorder functionality - no matter how nice that functionality may be - seems like a rip off. And now that they're axing the lifetime subscription plan, it's even less attractive.