Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

subego · Mar 15, 2006, 05:07 PM

Me and my SO have been powering through Buffy and Angel.

We just finished the 5th season, and were elated that he was finally written off.

Having him leave though, was only one of the small treats of an absolutely superlative season of Buffy. After hearing so many people say the show peaked in season 3, and after the letdown of season 4, I was completely blown away at just how damn good season 5 was.

So what say you? In the recap for season 4, one of the writers said there was a "Riley camp" and an "Angel camp". Neither of us could imagine a "Riley camp", so I want to get some scientific numbers here.

As I hope this spills off into discussion of Buffy in general, try to lay off the post season 5 spoilers.

subego · Mar 15, 2006, 05:15 PM

This was supposed to be a poll. Choices:

1) I love Riley and his do-gooder hunkyness!
2) Riley's a twit, I like my hunks dark and brooding!
3) **** you Fox, I want more Firefly!

Doofy · Mar 15, 2006, 05:19 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Me and my SO have been powering through Buffy and Angel.

I'll bet you haven't - I bet it's a casual meandering. I finally did Angel series 5 on Sunday. The whole season in one day.

Buffy 6 is good. Buffy 7 is excellent. Got some good viewing ahead of you.

subego · Mar 15, 2006, 05:40 PM

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'll bet you haven't - I bet it's a casual meandering. I finally did Angel series 5 on Sunday. The whole season in one day.

Well, close. We did 5/6ths of Angel season 2 yesterday. However, over the last 3 days we put down Buffy 5, Angel 2, and the last 4 episodes of Angel 1.

Not too shabby.

Doofy · Mar 15, 2006, 06:02 PM

Sweet. Considering there's two of you (twice as many bathroom breaks, etc.), that's good going!
Do yourself a favour and don't start Angel 5 until you've done Buffy 7 - spoilers aplenty in Angel 5.

Salty · Mar 15, 2006, 06:16 PM

I loved buffy season 6's end. I almost think of it as more of a series finale than the actual one. That said, Riley was a loser. Sure he had clean boyish good looks and all, but the guy who played him never seemed to put any real... OMPH into the character.

meelk · Mar 15, 2006, 06:21 PM

Riley's character was ok until he started having worse emo problems than Buffy. That totally destroyed any likeability.

version · Mar 15, 2006, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

That said, Riley sure had clean boyish good looks and all... OMPH the character.

Sorry superchicken, when reading your post I had this urge to cut 'n' paste a few words.

I'm in a silly mood.

Chuckit · Mar 15, 2006, 06:29 PM

Riley was The Suck.

Rumor · Mar 15, 2006, 06:36 PM

Angel can kick Riley's ass.

dtriska · Mar 15, 2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by Rumor

Angel can kick Riley's ass.

Angel did kick Riley's ass.

subego, enjoy the second half of Angel. It gets very, very good.

wdlove · Mar 16, 2006, 08:44 PM

Never watched Buffy. Hopefully some did like Riley.

cheruman · Mar 17, 2006, 01:10 PM

Buffy should have finished at the end of Season 5 which was easily one of the best. Season 6 was just depressing and even though 7 was better, the show ran for two more seasons than it should. Just to stay on topic, I have to add that Riley was a boring character from the start -

subego · Mar 17, 2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by cheruman

Buffy should have finished at the end of Season 5 which was easily one of the best. Season 6 was just depressing and even though 7 was better, the show ran for two more seasons than it should. Just to stay on topic, I have to add that Riley was a boring character from the start -

We just got to the musical episode in 6... and I'm feeling exactly the same way. I just speechified about it to my GF 10 minutes ago.

Season 5 made the point.

Chuckit · Mar 17, 2006, 01:31 PM

My ranking of Buffy seasons, from best to worst: 2, 3, 1, 5, 4, 6, 7.

RAILhead · Mar 17, 2006, 01:37 PM

I liked Angel and wish they hadn't cancelled it.

meelk · Mar 17, 2006, 01:37 PM

no way. buffy had the ultimate challenge and passed in season 7. her destiny was to change the world. with the exception of season 6, which even joss admits turned out much darker and depressing than he originally intended, the other seasons were great.

subego · Mar 17, 2006, 01:39 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

My ranking of Buffy seasons, from best to worst: 2, 3, 1, 5, 4, 6, 7.

I'm curious as to why you'd rate 5 so low.

I'm in for trouble if 6 and 7 are worse than 4.

RAILhead · 02:23 PM

SPOILERS !!!!!!!!11111!!!!ELEVEN11!!ONE

I never finished watching all of Buffy. The last I remember was when all the next Slayers were gathered together and she was going to have to train them all...something about the dark haired one going GHEY with the whatshername...I remember Spike dying but not dying...

I *think* some of that was the first part of the final season, right?

SPOILERS !!!!!!!!11111!!!!ELEVEN11!!ONE

Doofy · Mar 17, 2006, 01:52 PM

RAIL, stop throwing spoilers out dude - subego ain't there yet.

RAILhead · Mar 17, 2006, 01:52 PM

Oops.

Well, am I right anyway?

Chuckit · Mar 17, 2006, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by subego

I'm curious as to why you'd rate 5 so low.

Well, 2 and 3 are both absolutely brilliant, so they had to be on top. So the it's only really competing with the first season in my mind.

I liked 5 a lot when I saw it, but in hindsight I guess I view it as kind of foreshadowing the emo hell that season 6 turned into, whereas I view season 1 as setting up for the awesomeness of the next two seasons. Otherwise, they might be reversed.

Originally Posted by subego

I'm in for trouble if 6 and 7 are worse than 4.

Heh, I actually rewatched season 4 after season 7 ended and found myself appreciating it a lot more. But, y'know, some people liked season 7 a lot better than I did, so you might be one of them.

Chuckit · Mar 17, 2006, 02:18 PM

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Oops.

Well, am I right anyway?

Yeah, that sounds like the first part of the last season. (Actually, that sounds like most of the last season, because it kept repeating the same crap over and over and over.) Now edit it to white spoiler text or something.

Spliff · Mar 17, 2006, 02:24 PM

Season 5 and 6 just rocked. C'mon, season 6 had Dark Willow. She's hot and kicks ass. Season 7 was weak. All those annoying slayer-wannabes, especially that bossy lesbian one.

demibob · Mar 17, 2006, 02:53 PM

I liked riley but he's nowhere as good as angel. They should never have cancled angel. Or at least not when they did. The last episode was great. Buffy should have been cancled long before it did.

olePigeon · Mar 17, 2006, 03:15 PM

I picked #3, Firefox is the best damn show ever.

Salty · Mar 17, 2006, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I picked #3, Firefox is the best damn show ever.

Yah but it wasn't as good as thunderbirds

mikemako · Mar 17, 2006, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by cheruman

Buffy should have finished at the end of Season 5 which was easily one of the best. Season 6 was just depressing and even though 7 was better, the show ran for two more seasons than it should.

I've heard other people say this as well, but my favorite season was the depressing and climactic Season 6.. I enjoyed each season more than the previous one, until season 7. Season 7 was a bit of a letdown after the amazing buildup of 6, and 7 felt right away like the show was DONE. Season 6 had the musical and all the willow-craziness. YEAH!

I never got into Angel, I didn't really care for the character. Riley was alright.. I didn't really like or dislike the character.

-Mike

Chuckit · Mar 17, 2006, 06:18 PM

Originally Posted by mikemako

I've heard other people say this as well, but my favorite season was the depressing and climactic Season 6..

The climax of season 6 would have been badass if they'd built up to it in a rational way, but they didn't. It was, like, 15 episodes of whiny ****, the musical episode, four more episodes of depressing **** and then a completely-out-of-nowhere-and-kind-of-cool-but-still-whiny climax.

Spliff · Mar 17, 2006, 07:35 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

The climax of season 6 would have been badass if they'd built up to it in a rational way, but they didn't. It was, like, 15 episodes of whiny ****, the musical episode, four more episodes of depressing **** and then a completely-out-of-nowhere-and-kind-of-cool-but-still-whiny climax.

I never understand why some people complain about the "depressing" episodes. Life can be depressing. Buffy lost her mom and then had to support Dawn by working at a crappy fast food joint. That's realistic. That's the life that thousands of people live. The show wasn't a comedy.

olePigeon · Mar 17, 2006, 08:46 PM

Originally Posted by Salty

Yah but it wasn't as good as thunderbirds

I WILL KILL YOU!!!

Chuckit · Mar 18, 2006, 01:22 AM

Originally Posted by Spliff

I never understand why some people complain about the "depressing" episodes. Life can be depressing. Buffy lost her mom and then had to support Dawn by working at a crappy fast food joint. That's realistic. That's the life that thousands of people live. The show wasn't a comedy.

Sometimes people spend an hour on the crapper. Would you like to watch a full hour of Xander with diarrhea? That's realistic, after all.

The fact is, I don't watch TV to watch people whine like a bunch of emo 13-year-olds. People do that sometimes, but 22 episodes of the same one note is neither interesting nor particularly realistic. Some sad episodes are genuine and touching, like much of the latter half of season 2. The problem is, season 6 was just unrelentingly melodramatic, often about stupid things ("Wrecked" still pisses me off just thinking about it).

cheruman · Mar 18, 2006, 02:47 AM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Sometimes people spend an hour on the crapper. Would you like to watch a full hour of Xander with diarrhea? That's realistic, after all.

The fact is, I don't watch TV to watch people whine like a bunch of emo 13-year-olds. People do that sometimes, but 22 episodes of the same one note is neither interesting nor particularly realistic. Some sad episodes are genuine and touching, like much of the latter half of season 2. The problem is, season 6 was just unrelentingly melodramatic, often about stupid things ("Wrecked" still pisses me off just thinking about it).

Exactly. Season 5 had some "depressing" moments (The Body for example which was a brilliant episode). But, as Chuckit says, an entire season of people moping about doesn't make interesting TV. Sure, it wasn't meant to be a comedy, but most of the time, the writers mixed humour with the darker bits. Season 6 was the dark bits without the fun. (The musical was quallity though).

Chuckit · Mar 18, 2006, 03:02 AM

The real problem with season 6 is that, no matter how Joss Whedon protests, that was not his show. As far as I can tell, it was being run almost entirely by Marti Noxon, who thinks the more the characters moan, the better the drama must be. She had this to say about the season:

"I’ve been accused of being the sort of pain and chains girl. My episodes are often about dark issues and nasty sex. Joss would say that until I got this show, it wasn’t quite as nasty, and I take that as a compliment."

But, you know, some people liked it, so hey. I'm just saying that wasn't exactly the show I was looking for. I felt it lost a lot of its depth and certainly a lot of its appeal in trying to be dark.

Apple Pro Underwear · Mar 18, 2006, 10:00 AM

i thought riley was alien to the buffy verse. no likey