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Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 09:27 AM

Enterprise lowered my opinion of Star Trek.
Battlestar Galactica raised my standards.

2008 will have a new Star Trek film looking at the early days of Trek with Kirk and Spock, hopefully not played by either of the original actors

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/Movi...eut/index.html

Dakar · Apr 21, 2006, 09:31 AM

Oh god.
Take a 10 year sabbatical, please.
Let the fans build up some hunger to see the franchise again.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 09:34 AM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Oh god.
Take a 10 year sabbatical, please.
Let the fans build up some hunger to see the franchise again.

On the plus side they have a better director this time so perhaps he will make it a bit more hard core.

I just hope they try to make it campy with cheesy sets and none of that "real" Enterprise crap.

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2006, 09:34 AM

Son of a bitch, another prequel. They apparently didn't learn their lesson with Enterprise.

I honestly don't get it. There were so many story options they could have pursued with the Trek universe with the way Deep Space Nine took the story in the last few seasons. And yet the best they can do is prequels nobody wants to watch.

Thanks Berman.

Eug Wanker · Apr 21, 2006, 09:35 AM

They already screwed up T'Pau royally, so I can see them screwing up Kirk and Spock royally too.

ort888 · Apr 21, 2006, 09:39 AM

They need to stop with this retro stuff and move into the future.

Actually, it still needs more of a break. Wait a few more years and then make another show. No more movies.

Lateralus · Apr 21, 2006, 09:54 AM

Originally Posted by ort888

Wait a few more years and then make another show. No more movies.

Yeah, Star Trek needs to stop sucking on TV before it can stop sucking at the movies.

production_coordinator · Apr 21, 2006, 09:56 AM

I completely agree. the original was good, TNG was good, even some of Voyager and Deep Space 9 were OK... but Enterprise was HORRIBLE! I would argue that it may have debased the franchise.

I simply don't understand how they could mess it up. Also, why not focus an entire movie on a significant battle. I LOVED the ship battle in "The Wrath of Khan"

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 10:01 AM

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

I completely agree. the original was good, TNG was good, even some of Voyager and Deep Space 9 were OK... but Enterprise was HORRIBLE! I would argue that it may have debased the franchise.

To be fair season 3 of enterprise was pretty good. The characters still sucked and it was somewhat predictable as you never doubted the outcome but it was alright.

Season 4 of enterprise had some really good episodes that felt very much like classic trek. I still wasn't upset when they canned it though.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

They already screwed up T'Pau royally, so I can see them screwing up Kirk and Spock royally too.

OK my classic trek is a little rusty. I never made a connection of that character to someone later on.

Is T'Pau the one that was in the beginning of the first star trek movie?

Maflynn · Apr 21, 2006, 10:14 AM

One of the problems that I had with enterpise was that a lot of the episodes/story lines revolved around time travel. More often then not an alien or human came from the future to mess things up. There was a lot of potential when this debuted but man they drove it into the ground with uninspired writing.

While I'm not a battlestar galactica fan, I see that its definitly popular and paramount should take note that people like strong storylines and writing as opposed to the latest in special effects.

production_coordinator · Apr 21, 2006, 10:26 AM

Originally Posted by Maflynn

One of the problems that I had with enterpise was that a lot of the episodes/story lines revolved around time travel. More often then not an alien or human came from the future to mess things up. There was a lot of potential when this debuted but man they drove it into the ground with uninspired writing.

While I'm not a battlestar galactica fan, I see that its definitly popular and paramount should take note that people like strong storylines and writing as opposed to the latest in special effects.

Regardless of the special effects... without a strong story and good characters, your show will fail.

Trek is a "space western" type show...

Eug Wanker · Apr 21, 2006, 10:42 AM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

OK my classic trek is a little rusty. I never made a connection of that character to someone later on.

Is T'Pau the one that was in the beginning of the first star trek movie?

No. She officiated at Spock's wedding/battle. T'Pau was one of the most powerful Vulcans at the time, but had turned down a seat on the Federation council.

Amok Time was one of my favourite episodes of all time. The actress who played T'Pau in the original series was very powerful. As soon as she came on screen you feared/respected her. Unfortunately, the role and acting of T'Pau in Enterprise were totally forgettable.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 11:01 AM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

No. She officiated at Spock's wedding/battle. T'Pau was one of the most powerful Vulcans at the time, but had turned down a seat on the Federation council.

Amok Time was one of my favourite episodes of all time. The actress who played T'Pau in the original series was very powerful. As soon as she came on screen you feared/respected her. Unfortunately, the role and acting of T'Pau in Enterprise were totally forgettable.

Interesting. Keep in mind that people change and 100 years can make you hard core.

OreoCookie · Apr 21, 2006, 11:43 AM

Oh no, not again!
Why not pick off where they left off with DS9? There was lots of material (rebirth of the Cardassian Empire, downfall of the Klingon empire, new relationship to the founders) that they could use. Maybe make a show about a gamma sector recon ship or whatnot.

And they should also make the characters more human this time and not so steril. BSG really set a new standard here (although Babylon 5 wasn't bad either).

cjrivera · Apr 21, 2006, 11:47 AM

If JJ Abrams could make this exciting as the first season of Alias, then count me in. (Especially if he put Jennifer Garner in there somewhere)

SpaceMonkey · Apr 21, 2006, 12:09 PM

Originally Posted by cjrivera

If JJ Abrams could make this exciting as the first season of Alias, then count me in. (Especially if he put Jennifer Garner in there somewhere)

Maybe they'll invent another technology that will require them to use detox gel constantly.

olePigeon · Apr 21, 2006, 12:12 PM

Everything sucks compared to Firefly.

ink · Apr 21, 2006, 12:40 PM

Originally Posted by OreoCookie

Why not pick off where they left off with DS9?

Unfortunately, they'll probably try to bring back the Voyager crew for something instead...

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Everything sucks compared to Firefly.

Have you seen Battlestar Galactica??

I enjoyed Firefly

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 12:57 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Everything sucks compared to Firefly.

Unfortunately FireFly sucked large.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 01:24 PM

I took me 20 years to figure out but I realized what i don't like about Star Trek when watching Enterprise. It is too much like the Sunday morning school of Sci-fi.

1) It is just a bunch of humans flying around from planet to planet pushing their human ideals on other races. The prime directive almost never seems to apply when it is something objectionable.

2) Everyone in the universe is the same. They all all are male/female (with the very odd exception), they all kiss, have sex the same way, all LOOK the same, all have some sort of greeting that involves shaking hands or bowing, all makes toasts at dinner with drinks. If the universe is so much of the same why bother leaving earth?

3) Every story has to relate to issues on earth somehow. I mean 100% of every episode ever. Get over it.

4) Nobody dies. You are never nervous about anyones life being in danger. The good guys always win.

5) The characters always look good. No human is fat, a drunk or a criminal unless they are evil. Remember when Janeway and paris turned into fish? 2 days later after being zapped by the doctors radiation they were 100% normal and had their hair and bone structure back. Or how about when troy got all evil and had white hair and aged 50 years. One hypo-spray morphed her back to normal hair colour/makeup and all. The biggest one is when the whole crew de-evolved and within 24 hours with the doctors care everyone was fine.

6) Just about every planet that has humanoids has the exact gavity and mix of air humans need.

7) reset button. The writers are chickens. The voyager episode "Year of hell" had the ship falling apart and on its last thread. that's cool and what it should have been like. But nope, destroy the time ship everything is back to normal and nobody remembers. No matter how many times voyager was beaten to a pulp and had its shuttles nuked by next week everything was repaired to 100%.

The list goes on and on and on. The good thing is BSG has never done any one of those things.

Dakar · Apr 21, 2006, 01:27 PM

Don't use Voyager for examples. It was poorly written sci-fi in Star Trek clothing.

Monique · Apr 21, 2006, 01:29 PM

I agree, they should give it up; boring...

Nicko · Apr 21, 2006, 01:34 PM

Was just reading this on slashdot. All I can say is 'meh'.

To this day I have not been able to watch a single complete episode of Enterprise, so bad does it suck. I can't stand any of the actors. Even old episodes of stargate put Enterprise to shame.

What they really need is the guy who did B5 to make a star trek movie, now that would rock.

olePigeon · Apr 21, 2006, 01:36 PM

Originally Posted by ink

Have you seen Battlestar Galactica??

Battlestar Galactica is what happens to TV when it aspires to be as good as Firefly.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Unfortunately FireFly sucked large.

Please stand still while I beat you to death.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 02:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

Don't use Voyager for examples. It was poorly written sci-fi in Star Trek clothing.

I used TNG as examples twice. The only ones I left alone was DS9 and 99% of the time they did it right. With some exceptions in the first season like "If wishes were horses" and "Move along home". Barf.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Battlestar Galactica is what happens to TV when it aspires to be as good as Firefly.

Firefly is what happens when someone tries to be gritty like DS9 and B5 and gets it wrong. I mean a country song for the opening title? Yuck.

Eug Wanker · Apr 21, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I took me 20 years to figure out but I realized what i don't like about Star Trek when watching Enterprise. It is too much like the Sunday morning school of Sci-fi.

1) It is just a bunch of humans flying around from planet to planet pushing their human ideals on other races. The prime directive almost never seems to apply when it is something objectionable.

2) Everyone in the universe is the same. They all all are male/female (with the very odd exception), they all kiss, have sex the same way, all LOOK the same, all have some sort of greeting that involves shaking hands or bowing, all makes toasts at dinner with drinks. If the universe is so much of the same why bother leaving earth?

3) Every story has to relate to issues on earth somehow. I mean 100% of every episode ever. Get over it.

4) Nobody dies. You are never nervous about anyones life being in danger. The good guys always win.

5) The characters always look good. No human is fat, a drunk or a criminal unless they are evil. Remember when Janeway and paris turned into fish? 2 days later after being zapped by the doctors radiation they were 100% normal and had their hair and bone structure back. Or how about when troy got all evil and had white hair and aged 50 years. One hypo-spray morphed her back to normal hair colour/makeup and all. The biggest one is when the whole crew de-evolved and within 24 hours with the doctors care everyone was fine.

6) Just about every planet that has humanoids has the exact gavity and mix of air humans need.

7) reset button. The writers are chickens. The voyager episode "Year of hell" had the ship falling apart and on its last thread. that's cool and what it should have been like. But nope, destroy the time ship everything is back to normal and nobody remembers. No matter how many times voyager was beaten to a pulp and had its shuttles nuked by next week everything was repaired to 100%.

The list goes on and on and on. The good thing is BSG has never done any one of those things.

I thought the disappearing cancer trick on BSG was incredibly stupid. I could have accepted it had they done it better, but even now it still irritates me.

P.S. I didn't like Firefly either. I also thought Serenity was at best just OK.

goMac · Apr 21, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Firefly is what happens when someone tries to be gritty like DS9 and B5 and gets it wrong. I mean a country song for the opening title? Yuck.

I actually came into Firefly ready to hate it (and the theme song didn't help) but the series was actually pretty good. Serenity was awesome, although I hated the cutting of some main characters.

Battlestar Galactica is just plain awesome. It's definitely better than any other sci fi show on TV, and with a bigger budget it could be even better.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I thought the disappearing cancer trick on BSG was incredibly stupid. I could have accepted it had they done it better, but even now it still irritates me.

That's cuz you are a doctor. Us regular suckers are more prone to believe it.
Still it beats having some turn into a mudskipper and then back to 100% normal after a shot of radiation.

goMac · Apr 21, 2006, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That's cuz you are a doctor. Us regular suckers are more prone to believe it.
Still it beats having some turn into a mudskipper and then back to 100% normal after a shot of radiation.

I thought they should have had Dr. House on to fight the cancer.

production_coordinator · Apr 21, 2006, 02:50 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I thought they should have had Dr. House on to fight the cancer.

Paco500 · Apr 21, 2006, 03:05 PM

Ok, you can't convince someone to like something they don't, but if I hadn't read the rest of your posts, I would think you were modeling your ideal Si-Fi show on Firefly.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I took me 20 years to figure out but I realized what i don't like about Star Trek when watching Enterprise. It is too much like the Sunday morning school of Sci-fi.

1) It is just a bunch of humans flying around from planet to planet pushing their human ideals on other races. The prime directive almost never seems to apply when it is something objectionable.

No green skinned aliens w/ bad prosthetics in Firefly, only humans. So no need to push their ideals on anyone.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

2) Everyone in the universe is the same. They all all are male/female (with the very odd exception), they all kiss, have sex the same way, all LOOK the same, all have some sort of greeting that involves shaking hands or bowing, all makes toasts at dinner with drinks. If the universe is so much of the same why bother leaving earth?

Again, all human.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

3) Every story has to relate to issues on earth somehow. I mean 100% of every episode ever. Get over it.

See above. Everything relates to earth as they all originated there.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

4) Nobody dies. You are never nervous about anyones life being in danger. The good guys always win.

Don't know what would have happened had the series continued, but the movie certainly proved no one was safe.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

5) The characters always look good. No human is fat, a drunk or a criminal unless they are evil. Remember when Janeway and paris turned into fish? 2 days later after being zapped by the doctors radiation they were 100% normal and had their hair and bone structure back. Or how about when troy got all evil and had white hair and aged 50 years. One hypo-spray morphed her back to normal hair colour/makeup and all. The biggest one is when the whole crew de-evolved and within 24 hours with the doctors care everyone was fine.

The cast of Firefly certainly had warts and all.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

6) Just about every planet that has humanoids has the exact gavity and mix of air humans need.

As they "terra-formed" (or some such nonsense) every planet they visited, it made sense.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

7) reset button. The writers are chickens. The voyager episode "Year of hell" had the ship falling apart and on its last thread. that's cool and what it should have been like. But nope, destroy the time ship everything is back to normal and nobody remembers. No matter how many times voyager was beaten to a pulp and had its shuttles nuked by next week everything was repaired to 100%.

Serenity always seemed to be falling apart, but at least they took it to the shop to get repaired when it needed it.

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

The list goes on and on and on. The good thing is BSG (or firefly) has never done any one of those things.

I guess I'm the nut that liked the theme song, set a very distinct tone. BSG is an excellent show, but Firefly has it's own greatness as well. BSG is definitely a more serious "drama." Firefly was proudly a bit melodramatic and was a lot funnier. But in both cases, I was transported, got into the characters and story and the fact that they were Sc-fi faded into the background. They are just both good shows.

Dakar · Apr 21, 2006, 03:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I used TNG as examples twice. The only ones I left alone was DS9 and 99% of the time they did it right. With some exceptions in the first season like "If wishes were horses" and "Move along home". Barf.

Just saying, Voyager was a joke. As for the DS9 examples. they're both Season 1. No coincidence.

OreoCookie · Apr 21, 2006, 03:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

That's cuz you are a doctor. Us regular suckers are more prone to believe it.
Still it beats having some turn into a mudskipper and then back to 100% normal after a shot of radiation.

Nah, I thought that was incredibly lame, too.
I do think the standards are different though. BSG wants to be `realistic', they use phones with cords for chrissake. Adama seems to be very content with a phone that is significantly larger than my dad's first cell phone 15 years ago.

In the Star Trek universe, you are not bound by too many physical constraints. I agree that having a certain type of hypo spray cure pretty much any sort of disease within seconds is ridiculous, but you don't have the same standard there.

Anyhow. I do think Enterprise was not as bad as people make it, but it certainly wasn't good. In every show, you have a few characters you grow to love after some time (Babylon 5: G'Kar, Molari, DS9: Odo and Quark, Voyager: The Doctor, TNG: Q), but there was no such a shrewd person I grew to like in Enterprise. I also found DS9 to be more daring than Enterprise (e. g. having two women kiss a few times, being more explicit about sex at times). Overall, Enterprise was a step backwards.

I do share your criticism of Star Trek, though. It's about time it evolves beyond it's current stage and learn from the mistakes.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 03:18 PM

Oh firefily firefly firely. I am sorry but it is not the best sci-fi ever.

I watched a couple TV episodes and they were meh. Fine, I might have caught bad ones.
But the movie? Zzzzzzzzz. I mean the first half was ok but when a race of wacked out zombies for a taste for normal peoples skin can still fly spacecraft but can't even walk properly I lose interest. Take the last 30 minutes of Serenity and replace it with Resident Evil or Night of the living dead and nobody would have even noticed.

Teronzhul · Apr 21, 2006, 03:19 PM

I love the firefly theme song

SpaceMonkey · Apr 21, 2006, 03:23 PM

oops, wrong thread.

Paco500 · Apr 21, 2006, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I mean the first half was ok but when a race of wacked out zombies for a taste for normal peoples skin can still fly spacecraft but can't even walk properly I lose interest.

Well, to be fair, my father-in-law can't walk properly either but can get around like a demon on his Rascal.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Paco500

Well, to be fair, my father-in-law can't walk properly either but can get around like a demon on his Rascal.

Does he have such a strong taste for skin of normally people though?

You'd think with urges that strong they would just eat each other.

goMac · Apr 21, 2006, 03:49 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Does he have such a strong taste for skin of normally people though?

You'd think with urges that strong they would just eat each other.

How do we know they don't? Cannibals eat people, they still find a way to not eat each other.

Also, if you watched the series enough, they do mention that Reever ships are very horribly kept and barely operational.

olePigeon · 04:08 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Firefly is what happens when someone tries to be gritty like DS9 and B5 and gets it wrong. I mean a country song for the opening title? Yuck.

Now I know you haven't watched it.

I've met a few people who said they couldn't get past the theme song. Once you watch it and realize how great the story is and how great the show is, you'll also realize how perfect the theme song is.

Every single person at work that I've let borrow my Firefly DVDs (and that's well over 8, now) have all agreed that it is the best show to ever grace television. Two of my coworkers can't even stand sci-fi, absolutely hate it; but when they watched Firefly, they fell in love with the show.

I don't mean this sarcastically or to be funny, but seeing as how you're gay and question a lot about Christianity, I thought you might really like the show's underlying message and purpose. Too often in history do we find people who think they can "fix" other people.

Y'all got on this boat for different reasons, but y'all come to the same place. So now I'm asking more of you than I have before. Maybe all. Sure as I know anything, I know this - they will try again. Maybe on another world, maybe on this very ground swept clean. A year from now, ten? They'll swing back to the belief that they can make people... better. And I do not hold to that. So no more runnin'. I aim to misbehave.

Sourbook · Apr 21, 2006, 04:01 PM

IMO the hottest Star Trek babe of all time.

Dark Helmet · Apr 21, 2006, 04:03 PM

Originally Posted by olePigeon

Now I know you haven't watched it.

Well you got me

BTW Eug and I went and saw it together.

olePigeon · Apr 21, 2006, 04:10 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well you got me

BTW Eug and I went and saw it together.

You mean Serenity? They had to take a few years of story and condense it into 2 hours. Check out Firefly in episode order, then go back to Serenity.

cjrivera · Apr 21, 2006, 04:16 PM

edit: too big of a pic. sorry.

cjrivera · Apr 21, 2006, 04:17 PM

Originally Posted by Sourbook

IMO the hottest Star Trek babe of all time.

http://starwrecked.faketrix.com/cont...en-of-nine.jpg

Sourbook · Apr 21, 2006, 04:27 PM

Originally Posted by cjrivera

http://starwrecked.faketrix.com/cont...en-of-nine.jpg

She's nice too

, but I like my T'Pol.

goMac · Apr 21, 2006, 04:28 PM

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Well you got me

BTW Eug and I went and saw it together.

Huh? Serenity doesn't explain most of the backstory of the reevers (and everything else for that matter.) That's explained in the series.

OreoCookie · Apr 21, 2006, 05:43 PM

What's so great about Firefly? It never made it across the Atlantic, so I have no idea what you guys are arguing about. I know that ratings should not be used as a measurement of quality for a show, but it was cancelled rather quickly, wasn't it? (Space 2063: Above And Beyond was also cancelled to early and I really liked the show.)