[dowNNshift]

Sigh, long gone are the days of caring, professional, sales associates (aka "mac specialists") at our local Apple Stores.

Yesterday when I was in Apple Store Willowbend the sales people just milled about, fraternizing amoung themselves, ignoring me and many other customers. I stood looking at a MacBook Pro for 10 min and not a single sales person approached me. What is the incentive for a customer to purchase any Apple product in an Apple retail store? Other than physically test driving the hardware, I see no reason.

Honestly, I know that Apple has a lax dress code, but c'mon half of the sales staff was dressed in ratty street clothes and sneakers. Zero professionalism.

Ironically, the folks at CompUSA function (and dress) more professionally...

Have any of yall noticed a decline in customer service in your local Apple Stores?

Seriously, Apple Retail needs to return to the days of training and hiring quality sales staff --instead of running it like GAPple!!!

[rickey939]

Of the multiple Apple Stores I have been into here in Chicago, I haven't seen the issues you describe above.

The same can be said for the Kansas City Apple Store, which is probably the best store I've visited thus far. Everything from the quality sales staff, brilliant Mac Genuises, store manager, and overall cleanliness of the store are top-notch.

It appears to be a mixed bag in other regions obviously.

[sknapp351]

I have recently been in the Apple Store in Short Hills NJ, SOHO NYC, Tampa Fl, and Tysons Corner in Virginia. I had only great experiences. The store you went to probably needs new management. Call Apple and tell them.
SAm

[Dark Helmet]

I went to the Apple Store in Toronto yesterday. Every time I am in there I am always impressed because 90% of the people working on the floor are VERY attractive, especially for a computer store. Some of the guys (all 20 something) look like models.

Anywho, I walked in to buy a mini, a young girl walks up to me (she wasn't one of the attractive ones) and asks if she can help me. I said I called in about a Mini and they put it aside for me. She looked at me with a very puzzled face and said "a Mini?" I was like ya a Mac Mini.

She said oooookaaay, have you done anything strange to this computer? I said "not yet".

Anywho 5 confusing situations later she undercharged me by $20 for the keyboard and mouse but at that point I was happy she wasn't to bright.

But in the end I have found all the staff there extremely attractive, friendly and approachable. Everyone in the store was wearing a gray Apple t-shirt with something written on it.

[Chuckit]

The UTC Apple Store is fine around here.

[jedi2187]

I go to the Apple Store in St. Louis (the main one, not the smaller one in the Galleria), and every time, I've had to deal with a great staff, and there's always someone attentative the moment you walk in.

[brassplayersrock²]

same goes for the Apple Store in Cambridge Mass. All the sales people very attentive and smart. Hmm, and as Dark_Helmet mentioned, attractive.

[rickey939]

Originally Posted by dowNNshift

Honestly, I know that Apple has a lax dress code, but c'mon half of the sales staff was dressed in ratty street clothes and sneakers. Zero professionalism.

It should be mandatory for them to be at least wearing the standard Apple t-shirts. Every store has that condition.

It does sound like the management is the issue at the store.

[Monique]

Ok as sales people they should not ignore you; but you should have said can I have some help here please and if they still ignore you; you go to one of them may I talk to your manager and have the manage do the job of the sales people then the manager fires incompetent sales people.

But, you have to be careful; sometimes customer service agents are not rude, just tired or fed up or they had a bad customer before you. I.E. I would say that on the 800 calls I would process daily as an operator, 200 calls were bad to totally awful, so after a bad call I would sigh so not to explode, and while I was doing that a call came on line and after I gave what I wanted to the next customer, the woman said you are so rude, I asked her why do you say that, she said you sigh then I answered I have asthma may I breath please miss, it shut her up.

I am saying just take some behaviours with a grain of salt, customer service people are human; they should be allowed to have bad days, a temper... You also have to be a good customer.

Again ignoring your customers should not be.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

Hmm, and as Dark_Helmet mentioned, attractive.

Actually let me expand on that... they are HOT. I mean I walked in and was like oooooh baby. even the manager was atractive.

No way in hell is this coincidental. It is like a bar or something.

Heck hooters has "requirements" for looks and I think the Apple store does also.

I know the hotness factor isn't the norm though as I started a thread here years showed pictures of some Apple Store in North Carolina and every employee had a HUGE ass!

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Heck hooters has "requirements" for looks and I think the Apple store does also.

Dress codes are legally permissible, but basing hiring decisions on physical attributes of the person (not their dress) is strictly illegal. Hooters got sued for that. They eventually got around it by actually trademarking the "look" of a Hooters Girl and tweaking it to make it a "bona fide occupational requirement" -- the employees aren't working, per se, they are playing the part of Hooters Girl.

Anyhow, the local Apple stores here have some physically less-than-supermodel employees, to put it diplomatically, but they are all good folks.

It sounds to me that the OP visited a store with terrible management.

tooki

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by tooki

Dress codes are legally permissible, but basing hiring decisions on physical attributes of the person (not their dress) is strictly illegal. Hooters got sued for that. They eventually got around it by actually trademarking the "look" of a Hooters Girl and tweaking it to make it a "bona fide occupational requirement" -- the employees aren't working, per se, they are playing the part of Hooters Girl.

How could you prove that though? I mean if an ugly person walks in and doesn't get the job how can they prove it is because of their looks and not the attitude?

Heck if I was a manager I would do the same.

[mdc]

I have not had any bad experiences with the Tampa, FL Apple store. The sales people here have always been really friendly to me and very helpful.

[G4ME]

not if the hot person can't do the job

some of the dumbest people i know are the hotest

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

How could you prove that though? I mean if an ugly person walks in and doesn't get the job how can they prove it is because of their looks and not the attitude?

Heck if I was a manager I would do the same.

Well, I figure the trick is that you'd have to make sure it wasn't obvious and make sure you didn't let it slip to anybody what you were doing. Otherwise, if somebody somebody gets fired or happens to be friends with the person who got rejected, you're in trouble.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

I went to the Apple Store in Toronto yesterday. Every time I am in there I am always impressed because 90% of the people working on the floor are VERY attractive, especially for a computer store. Some of the guys (all 20 something) look like models.

Because that is what is important. Right?

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by dowNNshift

Have any of yall noticed a decline in customer service in your local Apple Stores?

No. Actually, I think it's getting better.

In the beginning when the stores opened and I went in with a question, only a genius would be able to answer it. Now, with so many people frequenting Apple stores the general sales staff is fielding more and more questions and getting much more knowledgeable about the systems. A HUGE plus in my book.

At the Sommerset Mall in Troy, Michigan all of the employees look like they could work in a modern hip/trendy bar and are VERY friendly. Piercings and tattoos are common. Not ugly, but who cares what they look like as long as they are friendly and knowledgeable?

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

How could you prove that though? I mean if an ugly person walks in and doesn't get the job how can they prove it is because of their looks and not the attitude?

Heck if I was a manager I would do the same.

As an individual, it's hard to prove. But if you, as an individual, sue and the company is forced to divulge hiring records, it's easy to show trends*. With Hooters, it was easy: it was a man who sued, and it was trivial to prove that Hooters never hired male waitstaff, in clear violation of EEO law. Hooters lost. In order to prevent being sued for discrimination in the future, they had to turn the Hooters Girl into a "character" that the employee had to be able to "play". Legally, being able to "play" the "character" is a "bona fide occupational requirement" and thus not discriminatory, just as being a child is a bona fide occupational requirement for modeling children's clothes, or being male is a bona fide occupational requirement for playing the role of Romeo in Romeo and Juliet.

*Companies with any sense maintain records of hiring, and track patterns in hiring vs. applicants, often using as a rule of thumb something called the 4/5ths rule. If you see that, for example, 20% of white applicants are hired, while only 10% of asian applicants are hired, then you have reason to believe that your hiring practices may be biased, since 10/20=50%, which is less than 4/5 (80%). Then you'd go back and investigate.

In litigation, the person's claims would be investigated by seeing whether a pattern exists. If a clear pattern doesn't, you'll likely lose.

tooki

[bradoesch]

I was in the Toronto Apple store recently. I couldn't find DiskWarrior so I asked, and all the sales person could do was point at the software in the back corner of the store. None of the fake "pleasure in helping you" either, it felt like I was somehow inconveniencing him. He obviously didn't know what DiskWarrior was, which I thought was a little strange.

Has anybody bought DiskWarrior at the Toronto store or do they actually not carry it? It probably would've been crazy expensive anyway, everything else was. Not that I was expecting deals.

Also being in the store for approx. 30 mins not a single sales person wanted to help me buy stuff. Not that I minded, since I was only there to try out the Intel Macs for the first time and actually see an official store. The store was very crowded and busy so it was understandable they couldn't keep track of everyone. Except for the security guard. Her menacing glare was very obvious.

[UNTeMac]

It's been a few months since I've been to that store but it wasn't a bad experience. Maybe they've changed management. I've been to four stores so far and the one in Santa Monica was by far the best experience employee-wise.

[TheIceMan]

I used to live in Dallas and when I first switched to the Mac in the Fall of 2002, I would go to the Apple WillowBend alot! The guys there were nice and made me feel welcomed. I've only been back a few times here and there and yes, you're right. The quality of service has definitely declined. Half the time, just standing there listening, I knew more about a software or could assist the customer much better than the store employee could.

And as for employees, especially the new sales people not knowing Apple products. There's no excuse for that. Much worse when you ask them something basic and they say they don't know and it's on their shelf.

[TailsToo]

I think the store on Knox Street in Dallas has a better staff - at least the times I've gone and needed something from the staff.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by tooki

As an individual, it's hard to prove. But if you, as an individual, sue and the company is forced to divulge hiring records, it's easy to show trends*. With Hooters, it was easy: it was a man who sued, and it was trivial to prove that Hooters never hired male waitstaff, in clear violation of EEO law.

It would be trivial to prove that, but the employer would have to be absolutely retarded to put a "Pretty?" checkbox on the records. You would have to visit each of the prospective employees and somehow objectively prove that the ones who got hired were "pretty."

[imitchellg5]

All two of the Apple Stores in Denver seem to be very nice. The staff is very helpful. However the Apple Certified Reseller in Colorado Springs, is bad. The people are grumpy. I had a question about iSight, and the sales representative just stared at me.

[Ozmodiar]

Originally Posted by rickey939

Of the multiple Apple Stores I have been into here in Chicago, I haven't seen the issues you describe above.

The same can be said for the Kansas City Apple Store, which is probably the best store I've visited thus far. Everything from the quality sales staff, brilliant Mac Genuises, store manager, and overall cleanliness of the store are top-notch.

It appears to be a mixed bag in other regions obviously.

I've had unpleasant experiences at the Apple Store in Milwaukee on more than one occasion. Also a friend and I went to the one on Michigan Ave last time we were in Chicago and they were rude to us seemingly because we were the only people there in jeans and hoodies.

[dowNNshift]

Yeah, they were wearing the 'current issue' Apple shirts, most were un-tucked or wrinkled while two sales guys were wearing ratty kacki shorts.

Multiple Apple Stores in the DFW area are managed by the same manager and mostly staffed with part-time sales employees. I asked, and Casey is the manager of both Apple Store Willowbend and the new Southlake store... Seems like they're a little spread thin from the quality of service.

Lately I've had some issues with Apple Store Willowbend --one of the latest I was buying a copy of OS X 10.4 Server and I asked the sales girl if it was a universal app, she said yes -- but I figured before spending $500 bucks I'd better check and looked it up on the Apple website. Sure enough, Tiger Server is only for PPC Macs. That could have been a timely and costly mistake!

I've been to at least 5 different Apple Stores around the country, and it definitely seems that the DFW stores really have alot of turn over and they don't well train the staff.

I totally think the problem is deeper than just the poor store management, its a compounding problem from their new focus on gross profit, turn-and-burn, instead of sharing what Apple is really about. I'd really like to see a return to the summer 2001 feel Apple stores had back when they focused on teaching people why Apple is better, rather than today's GAPple stores.

[dreamryche]

I've had mixed experiences at the Buffalo store. Generally, the people there are courteous and helpful. Once or twice I've gotten a lousy attitude from an employee, but on the whole, I'm happy with the store.

[JoshuaZ]

I've never had those problems at the Apple stores in Minnesota, Wisconsin, or here in Japan. Even in Japan people come over and ask me if I need help, in Japanese, even though I am a rather scary looking white guy.

[ApeInTheShell]

You should come up to Denver. I like visiting the Cherry Creek store when I can and the Aspen Grove store is even better. Very friendly staff. I did notice that sales staff just sorta hang out until they are called upon.

[Apfhex]

I'm comfortable when I walk into a store and am free to roam about and poke things without sales people talking to me. I guess that's how I am—I don't generally walk into a retail store in a hurry to buy something. If I want to talk to someone I can go find them. I've been to the Apple Store on Stockton in SF and the mini store here in Santa Rosa and had a perfectly normal experience, no one was rude, staff was dressed appropriately. Nothing exceptional, but nothing bad either.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by dowNNshift

Lately I've had some issues with Apple Store Willowbend --one of the latest I was buying a copy of OS X 10.4 Server and I asked the sales girl if it was a universal app, she said yes -- but I figured before spending $500 bucks I'd better check and looked it up on the Apple website. Sure enough, Tiger Server is only for PPC Macs. That could have been a timely and costly mistake!

Technically she might have been right. A straight install of 10.4 server might not run on Intel Macs, but a server on top of client install probably would have worked. There is a specific upgrade package you have to run that just installs the server stuff on top of your OS X client.

[Hawkeye_a]

Got a question ..... when you guys goto Apple stores, do you expect to be approached by sales staff ? why would you expect that ? when i go shopping for anything, i just like to be left alone, and then if i had any questions i ask the staff. A friendly 'hello' is all i really need to be honest. I dont see the reason to be showered with attention when i walk into a store.

A question to the original poster...... are you a regular at the store ? have u actually baught anything there ?

Personally, i perfer the A&F buying experience....theyre constantly organizing the store, and just welcome you to the store and leave you to your business. then if you had any questions they help out really well. I prefer that to being hounded by sales staff.

Cheeers

[lasvegasgamer]

I've never felt it necessary in the Apple Store for a Mac Specialist to approach me, if I need help then I'll find one, and their usually right there ready.

The reason for this is simple: I've often times gone in and just worked on a machine for about a half hour or so, sometimes to see if I could live with the speed of the machine (Core Solo mini) and other times to check my mail and stuff (when AppleCare had my iBook on hold waiting for a part), not once during those times was I approached, and boy am I glad...

In fact, I've never seen anything bad at all with a Mac Specialist with normal customers, they are pretty much relaxed. The only time I've ever seen anything iffy was when some guy booted a Mac into Single User mode and a Specialist flipped out. I suppose since damage *could* have been done it was a okay response, but its possible he was just wondering.

Now Apple Store Genuis Bar wait times are worth griping about...but that's another thread entirely

[meelk]

Originally Posted by Hawkeye_a

Got a question ..... when you guys goto Apple stores, do you expect to be approached by sales staff ? why would you expect that ? when i go shopping for anything, i just like to be left alone, and then if i had any questions i ask the staff. A friendly 'hello' is all i really need to be honest. I dont see the reason to be showered with attention when i walk into a store.

Cheeers

I would group retail sales into 2 categories. Those places that let you browse and those that immediately jump on you. Browsing stores are almost entirely things like clothing, where margin is high, and individual taste and fit vary widely, so you absolutely need a lot of time to look around.

Electronics almost always go the 'jump on you' route. Margin is tighter on the product, and you dont have as many individual choices with the product itself (a lot of customers might not know what they need). Sales staff should meet and greet, give you whats called a mini tour in most circles by pointing out areas of the store and specials in a quick sentence or two, then letting you be for a bit before coming back to check in. You'll see a variety of relaxed to really pushy here depending on the company and store training.

I would be *very* suprised if the 'by the book' Apple way is to say Hi and forget about you, regardless of what you're seeing in stores. It would seem to me personally that a company with lesser market share would want its employees to demonstrate why macs are different than PCs and how they can meet individual needs.

Employees standing around talking amongst themselves is *never* in the employee playbook and sounds more like a managerial problem.

[Chuckit]

I've been to a few Apple Stores, and all the ones I've been to, the employees would come up, ask if I'd like their help, and buzz off when I told them I just wanted to play around with the new iWhateverWasNewAtTheTime. Not really a jump-on-you route as much as a lot of computer places I've been to. I assume being chill is a company policy. (Apple's not exactly as tight on the margins as a place with a bunch of $200 Dells, either.)

[©öñFü$íóÑ]

I'm a person who knows EXACTLY what he wants and won't settle for anything less.....(or more....hahah), so i don't usually pay attention to the sales people at the Apple Store, nor at any other store.

But i HAVE noticed how helpful, courteous, and professional they are at BOTH of the Apple Stores I've visited in San Francisco. (one at a mall near my University, and another in Downtown S.F.)

As for how 'attractive' they look/are..... well..... for me, the girls are a mixed bag..... some cute, some hot, some average, some insanely knowlegable.... ok.... i'll sum it up..... -nothing- negative for me to say about the girls..... for the guys.......well, as for me being a guy, i'd be more interested talking to the girls, naturally......