[Dark Helmet]

This would be my dream come true.

Without Adobe I am sure Apple would be dead. The thing that kept them alive in the 90's was the creative market, namely photoshop.

When OSX shipped the adoption rate was slow because people were waiting for a native Photoshop. This also seems to be the case with intel Mac as photoshop will not be ready for a year.

Apple also has issues with their iLife/Pro apps being slow as dog for the first few revisions.
Case in point iPhoto was a dog intil version 4, same goes for iMovie.

Apples recently released Aperture is incredibly slow despite the fact that it tries to load most of it off to the GPU. The extremely high system requirements really excludes most of the potential customers.

Strangely Adobe's lightroom beta was 10x faster than Aperture. Sure it is not as pretty but I think the trade off is worth it.

In the end I think it would be smart though as with Photoshop AND flash Apple can accelerate ports to Universal apps, learn a few things and best off all KILL the Windows version.

Windows machines with No Flash and No Photoshop will have people switching in droves.

http://www.pbs.org/cringely/pulpit/pulpit20060427.html

[rickey939]

No.

[Dakar]

I can't see it happening.

The backlash if they stopped making PC versions would be hilarious (if not suicidal).

[mdc]

I just don't see it happening, but hey, what do I know? I didn't see Apple switching to intel either.

The parts of the article I found interesting are the last two lines.

Hey, could that be why Apple is rumored to have this week just laid-off its entire Aperture development group?

Could be

I searched around, but I can't find anything about this rumor of the "entire Aperture development group," any links?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by mdc

I searched around, but I can't find anything about this rumor of the "entire Aperture development group," any links?

http://www.thinksecret.com/news/0604aperture.html

[Sourbook]

Edit

[Chuckit]

Could Apple even afford Adobe?

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by mdc

I just don't see it happening, but hey, what do I know? I didn't see Apple switching to intel either.

The parts of the article I found interesting are the last two lines.


I searched around, but I can't find anything about this rumor of the "entire Aperture development group," any links?

I believe that Think Secret has an article about that.

[Big Mac]

I didn't realize Aperture's status was that critical. As for buying Adobe, I have been advocating it for years. It would be an expensive proposition, though; let us all remember that we're talking about the same mental patient who just recently thought Apple was going to gut OS X so that it could be compatible with clean roomed Windows APIs.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

I didn't realize Aperture's status was that critical. As for buying Adobe, I have been advocating it for years. It would be an expensive proposition, though; let us all remember that we're talking about the same mental patient who just recently thought Apple was going to gut OS X so that it could be compatible with clean roomed Windows APIs.

I've been saying it for a while also because there were rumors that MS would buy them which would obviously mean the end of Mac support.

That would have been a disaster.

[starman]

Cringley's as bad as Dvorak sometimes.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

Could Apple even afford Adobe?

Adobe's market cap is a shade under 25B, and Apple's is a shade under 60B. Apple has 8B in cash in the bank, considerable but not enough to swallow Adobe.

Cringley's assertion that Apple could buy Adobe "for free" because the Market would like it so much seems a little too optimistic.

[xi_hyperon]

I don't think Apple could buy Adobe outright, but they certainly could buy a significant stake in the company.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Adobe's market cap is a shade under 25B, and Apple's is a shade under 60B. Apple has 8B in cash in the bank, considerable but not enough to swallow Adobe.

Can they buy them with stock?

[Millennium]

It's an interesting idea, but I don't think Apple could pull it off. Even if they did, they couldn't just pull Flash and Photoshop from Windows; the courts would deliver a smackdown faster than you could say "antitrust". And if Apple actually did that, they'd deserve a legal smackdown just as much as Microsoft deserves one for the things it has done.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Can they buy them with stock?

I'm not sure how much more stock the Apple board is allowed to authorize. But in any case, even if they can issue enough stock to cover it, using stock will dilute the value of all the shares currently outstanding (including mine! ). (In other words, Apple would have to create "new stock out of thin air" to give to Adobe's shareholders in exchange for their stock. This means that there are more shares of AAPL outstanding than before, and each individual share is worth a smaller fraction of the whole company.)


Cringley's position is that even taking this dilution into account, the combined value of both companies in the stock market will end up being more than 60B + 25B after any merger or buyout, which would result in a net gain for shareholders. Again, I think he's being too optimistic....

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Dork.

I'm not sure how much more stock the Apple board is allowed to authorize. But in any case, even if they can issue enough stock to cover it, using stock will dilute the value of all the shares currently outstanding (including mine! ). (In other words, Apple would have to create "new stock out of thin air" to give to Adobe's shareholders in exchange for their stock. This means that there are more shares of AAPL outstanding than before, and each individual share is worth a smaller fraction of the whole company.)

They could handle it pretty well with a merger over a few years. After aquiring Adobe for, say, 5 billion plus an additional 10b in stock, they could then split after the merger. Buy back enough stock to finish the sale, wait for the stock to go up naturally with the market, then pay the rest of the bill. Your stock would increase in value because of the buyback, then increase in more because Apple's marketshare would increase. (I'm guessing, I don't know how stocks work.)

I'm sure their stock would go up because the other 50% of Adobe's market is Windows. They could nearly double their marketshare simply by purchasing Adobe. If people want to continue using Adobe/Apple products, they can buy Macintosh. More importantly, if they were using those Windows versions specifically becuase they have software that only runs on Windows, they can buy Macintosh. They wouldn't need the Windows version anymore.

I think it'd be a brilliant purchase/merger.

[::maroma::]

Adobe does need a massive change in their business model, thats for sure. But I just don't see Apple buying them out. Its a HUGE gamble (despite what that author believes) that would either propel Apple into the stratosphere (highly unlikely) or it would put so much weight on them they'd just crumble under the pressure and all of their products would suffer in the end (more than likely).

There's only so much one company can do. Once a company starts taking on too much their core products begin to suffer, then the rest begins to suffer. Then they get into a hole that they cant get out of. Want an example? See Microsoft.

Apple has a hard enough time managing what they have on their plate as it is. They have products out there (software) that need to be much better. They need to focus on that, as well as moving forward with innovation. Don't forget, Apple is an innovation company. That's what they do. I highly doubt they'd even want to be bogged down by Adobe's massive products.

[RAILhead]

I freakin love Aperture and I can't stand Lightroom. It looks like some crappy KAI interface, or the interface for some game my 6 yo niece plays.

[Salty]

Remember when Apple was a smaller fish than Adobe? I think that a deal like this could certainly help both companies a lot. It would put Jobs in front of Adobe's business plan which would mean a lot for that company. Adobe over the last while has really been screwing up their interfaces. Imagine if Apple had a chance to revamp Photoshop's annoying interface quirks that have popped up?! That would be amazing! And imagine what would happen if Adobe's developers had access to all the cool tech in OS X and direct chances to talk to the people who made that tech? I imagine though they have that already.
Honestly though right now though PDF and Apple's markets aren't really on the same page. It'd mean a lot of changes for Apple's focus. That said though, after that point Apple would then control the desktop publishing, imaging, video, and audio markets, as well as web development and all the junk PDF is used for. I think that'd be pretty impressive. Oh and they'd have that iPod thing.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Adobe does need a massive change in their business model, thats for sure.

Why? What are they doing that is so wrong?

Photoshop is one of the most stable apps I have ever used. Apples are the least stable.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Apples are the least stable.

Pff, Textedit has *NEVER* crashed on me

-t

[Salty]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Why? What are they doing that is so wrong?

Photoshop is one of the most stable apps I have ever used. Apples are the least stable.

Yes but aside from InDesign what's the last really innovative product adobe's made recently?

[greenamp]

After the Intel switch and the quiet little release of Boot Camp, there is absolutely no predicting what Apple has up it's sleeves.

A buyout of Adobe by Apple, or some kind of kinky "merger" between the two would be a win-win situation for both companies, hands down. Adobe could finally have a huge advantage in vaulting Indesign past Quark, and Apple would basically secure it's future for eternity.

If such a thing ever happened, Apple wouldn't pull the plug on the Windows versions. That would be moronic. They would just rename all the products to "Apple Adobe...," and slap a nice white Apple logo on all the starting graphics.

[::maroma::]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Why? What are they doing that is so wrong?

Photoshop is one of the most stable apps I have ever used. Apples are the least stable.

I'm assuming you've been using Adobe's apps for a while. Then you surely have experienced their terrible upgrade cycles, their terrible backwards compatibility, their dwindling application performance (Photoshop may be the exception here), and their lackluster support for the Mac. Those alone make for a hellish experience when you're working in a professional environment and depend on these applications to make your company money.

I agree that Apple's apps are worse performance-wise and stability-wise, but can you tell me that Illustrator is a stable application and keep a straight face? InDesign is not too bad, and Photoshop is as stable an app as Adobe makes.

I think if Apple were to acquire Adobe, they would change the things I stated in the first paragraph right off the bat (aside from the performance issues, I suppose). Adobe knows what it wants and delivers it to the consumer. Apple knows what the consumer wants and delivers it to the consumer.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

I think if Apple were to acquire Adobe, they would change the things I stated in the first paragraph right off the bat (aside from the performance issues, I suppose). Adobe knows what it wants and delivers it to the consumer. Apple knows what the consumer wants and delivers it to the consumer.

And locks you into their stuff, charges a premium for it, and has this magical way of somehow implying that other similar products and solutions do not exist.

Look at all of the people who take pride in being thrifty in their hardware purchases, and remember that there are people who are also thrifty about software purchases - not that Adobe software is inexpensive either, but at least Adobe products don't do things such as require .Mac accounts to make full use out of their software.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by Salty

Remember when Apple was a smaller fish than Adobe?

No, when was that?

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Salty

Adobe over the last while has really been screwing up their interfaces. Imagine if Apple had a chance to revamp Photoshop's annoying interface quirks that have popped up?!

Yeah, and make it really cool and unconveluted like iMovie, FinalCut or iPhoto.

Photoshop is perfect for me, and all that needs to happen is that it runs a LOT faster in OS X (without 2 GB RAM and the latest and greatest software).

Speed, speed, speed and less eye-candy UI crap.

[Salty]

I don't see how on earth you think iPhoto has a convoluted interface. I rarely have to think about what I need to do when using an Apple app, I just do it.

[Hal06]

I don't like Adobe apps that much, while I find Apple apps clean, Photoshop is an interface nightmare nowadays, I can remember running Photoshop 3 under IRIX, it had that cool old Mac UI (*) clean and simple, yeah, single undo, no brush size preview and the alike…

Now I sit in front of CS 2, just to find a bunch of options filling the biggest of the screens… tabs everywhere, this looks like a glorified Word 6 aimed to paint. Not good.

(*) If you are wondering how Adobe did it… they used a tool called Latitude to port Photoshop, Illustrator, Premiere to UNIX markets. Latitude mapped Macintosh APIs to the UNIX universe, keeping the Mac interface guidelines intact, but using the IRIX GUI to handle windows, menus, etc… So far the fidelity of the ports was an impressive achievement at the time.

So hell, yes!!, I wish Apple bought Adobe and gave such apps a new face, not prettier, just 'more affordable'.

Maybe in the near future some companies would provide their services as "UI masters", Apple would easily fit there.

[Kr0nos]

Originally Posted by Salty

I don't see how on earth you think iPhoto has a convoluted interface.

Errr, how about having all tools and options in one single f*in window?!

I'd rather have a bunch of pallets that I can move to a second monitor. Sure, PS has a shitload of options etc. these days, but I can always set up things the way I want.

Actually, the most annoying thing is that the window from which you chose a brush size for example still seems to 'stick' (forcing you to click somewhere else in order to make it go away).

[Salty]

iPhoto's design is fine. Apple doesn't mind pallets. Just use Pages, or Keynote? Pallets everywhere!
I imagine Apple would keep much of Photoshop's interface. What would likely happen would be that a standard tool bar would be introduced. Where you would then click an icon to pick your tools. Which would give you more screen real-estate. And we'd probably see more of an inspector style pallet like Keynote or Pages.

Keep in mind iPhoto is meant to cater to the iTunes crowd. Simple, slick, and quick. Photoshop is more in the same league as the Final Cut apps. Therefore the interface would be a lot more similar to those. Or perhaps more like Keynote and Pages. Actually come to think of it, both those sets of apps have notably different interface conventions!

[Brass]

Originally Posted by ::maroma::

Adobe does need a massive change in their business model, thats for sure. But I just don't see Apple buying them out. Its a HUGE gamble (despite what that author believes) that would either propel Apple into the stratosphere (highly unlikely) or it would put so much weight on them they'd just crumble under the pressure and all of their products would suffer in the end (more than likely).

There's only so much one company can do. Once a company starts taking on too much their core products begin to suffer, then the rest begins to suffer. Then they get into a hole that they cant get out of. Want an example? See Microsoft.

Apple has a hard enough time managing what they have on their plate as it is. They have products out there (software) that need to be much better. They need to focus on that, as well as moving forward with innovation. Don't forget, Apple is an innovation company. That's what they do. I highly doubt they'd even want to be bogged down by Adobe's massive products.

I think such a purchase is unlikely. However, if it was to occur, it needed have any significant ongoing burden on Apple (after the huge initial financial burden). Apple could keep the Adobe brand, and let it run as a separate company, in a similar way to what they do with FileMaker Inc. They could provide some basic input to the direction of the company, but ingore the day-to-day running of the company.