[abe]

From a post in the P/L comes an interesting question:

What does it mean to "think outside the box?""

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

What exactly do you think "thinking outside the box" means? This is a phrase that everyone tosses around but has no universal definition which means two people can be talking about "thinking outside the box" but meaning two completely different things.

For me, "thinking outside the box" means not allowing your thinking to be bound by established, traditional or orthodox ideas. I also believe that a person can think outside one box, and be thinking firmly inside another.

A discussion this provocative deserves to be shared with a wider audience, in a larger box, if you will. I'm opening a new thread on this topic, What does it mean to "think outside the box?"

Here's the link http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=1#post2968340

[abe]

Originally Posted by abe

From a post in the P/L comes an interesting question:

What does it mean to "think outside the box?""



A discussion this provocative deserves to be shared with a wider audience, in a larger box, if you will. I'm opening a new thread on this topic, What does it mean to "think outside the box?"

Here's the link http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=1#post2968340

Ithink it means being able to think beyond the normal boundaries that limit your normal everyday thought.

I don't think this is an act that is easy for most people. I think for some it is almost impossible to do and even impossibler to imagine.

No offense to those folk, it's just the truth.

Thinking outside the box means to imagine there being a whole NEW and DIFFERENT set of rules to go by.

For example, when thinking about buying a computer, what are the things that make Apple users people who think outside the box?

Well, I'd say it is that in a world where the accepted norm is that computers will break down or shut down regularly and for no apparent reason, Apple buyers are able to imagine a world where computers are reliable and work with few of these unexpected glitches.

Now, here's a reminder...THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT APPLE COMPUTERS it is about thinking outside the box.

[smacintush]

It is indicative of man's tendency to put ourselves in boxes. Our houses are boxes, we work in boxes, we are intellectually and physically always trying to line things up, organize them and straighten them out. If something is not geometrical we often equate it with a "mess". The imagery of a box is quite a suitable one to describe many aspects of the human experience.

Perhaps this is a symptom of man's imagined detachment from the natural world. As someone once said: "We often make a distinction between what we think is artificial and what is natural, but is there a difference between a bird's nest and a human house? Not really." WE just make them LOOK artificial, because we just HAVE to live in a box.

It is no wonder that it is so hard for some of us to think outside the box, we put ourselves there. We seem to like it there. I think that both metaphorically and literally speaking, we should make a "mess" of things often, as an antidote to this straightened out squared up world we put ourselves in.

[moodymonster]

the box is a metaphor for a set of rules.

thinking outside the box is to view those rules differently.

an old example:

A farmer is standing on one bank of a river, with a fox, a chicken, and a bag of grain. He needs to get to the other side of the river, taking the fox, the chicken, and the grain with him.

However, the boat used to cross the river is only large enough to carry the farmer and one of the things he needs to take with him, so he will need to make several trips in order to get everything across.

In addition, he cannot leave the fox unattended with the chicken, or else the fox will eat the chicken; and he cannot leave the chicken unattended with the grain, or else the chicken will eat the grain. The fox is not particularly partial to grain, and may be left alone with it.

How can he get everything across the river without anything being eaten?

it's old and everyone's probably done it b4 - but 4 those who haven't and for whom google is a step too far, I'll post the answer 2morrow.

ps - usually the rules are self created

[MM-o4]

it' like saying think beyond your penis.

MM

[Salty]

I've always thought it meant to think outside of the ways things have always been done, or are expected to be done.

I once had a pastor show me this thing with 9 dots in a 3/3 grid. He asked me to connect them without living my pen from the page, only drawing straight lines. I drew 5 lines. He then coyly showed me how to do it with four lines by going outside of the 3/3 grid. He said he was going to use it in the next week's sermon. That said this was also when he was explaining to me that I was too young at the age of 19 to lead a bunch of 16 year olds in a Bible study... so I turned around and by the next day I'd drawn a diagram in FreeHand of how to do it in 3 lines.
Unfortunately he mentioned me in the next sermon and mentioned how I'd shown him how to do it in three... everyone laughed cause cute David showed the pastor something... I later walked out of the sermon cause I thought he was a huge hypocrite ... we're better now though .

[Doofy]

Here's an exercise I use to think outside the box. After you've been doing it for a while, it becomes second nature.

Define your goal.
Define your starting position.

Work out every possible path from start to goal... ...without imposing any rules*.

Then start to impose rules* against those paths.
Paths which are still open after imposing the rules* are possible courses of action.
Then start to apply ease of achievement and speed factors to those remaining paths.

(* Rules = laws; morals; ethics; courses of action damaging to other nodes in the path, the overall project or your life )

Of course, this doesn't explain what thinking outside the box actually is - it's just an example.

[freudling]

As trite as the expression is, it hits home. Most people appear, at the very least, to wade through reality, hypnotized courtexsy of their social programming and constant reprogramming. From the square golfing buddies, to the married couple with 2.2 kids and 1.3 cars, to hippies and all the rest. Act out of each groups norm and OHH GOODNNESSSS, what are you doing? You are strange! I saw a blurb on ABC regarding Marlon Brando. They spewed a quote from him, something to the tune of, "...and after you are old and life is mostly behind you, you think, what was that all about?" The announcer followed by saying, "A one hour special will run tommorrow night highlighting this strange and peculiar man's life."

Ya, very strange and peculiar. Everything he said was normal, but outside the box for the stupid announcer and the like. Marlon Brando was completely normal and a fine actor at that. It seems that, act outside the box like Brando, or Marilyn Manson, or Alice Cooper... and you get labelled - categorized. Programmed idiots cateogrizing intelligent, independent people for not being like them, for thinking outside the box. Only thing is, those inside the box don't know they are. The irony is that, the smart ones get ouside the box but can be cast out of society as a result for not fitting in, like an albino monkey.

FUXK stupid people.

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Here's an exercise I use to think outside the box. After you've been doing it for a while, it becomes second nature.

Define your goal.
Define your starting position.

Work out every possible path from start to goal... ...without imposing any rules*.

Then start to impose rules* against those paths.
Paths which are still open after imposing the rules* are possible courses of action.
Then start to apply ease of achievement and speed factors to those remaining paths.

(* Rules = laws; morals; ethics; courses of action damaging to other nodes in the path, the overall project or your life )

Of course, this doesn't explain what thinking outside the box actually is - it's just an example.

Well, I don't know. It seems to me that the difficulty in "thinking outside the box" is in the thinking itself. Our conscious thought process is so severely limited that I don't think it is possible to really think outside the box. Those that do, aren't really "thinking" on the normal sense. They are not letting the conscious brain get in the way of the unconscious, which is many, many times more capable.

Creating an "exercise" like this would seem to me to only hinder the process IMHO.

[Spook E]

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the expression is "Think outside the Circle"

Freedom Furniture pinched that phrase and made it Square, due to square = dwelling(sorta)

Linky http://www.geocities.com/tangawarra/paulwri3.html

[abe]

Originally Posted by Spook E

Sorry to rain on your parade, but the expression is "Think outside the Circle"

Freedom Furniture pinched that phrase and made it Square, due to square = dwelling(sorta)

Linky http://www.geocities.com/tangawarra/paulwri3.html

Well, if I might post an idea that's outside this circle or box of thought, notice how little participation there is in this thread.

This stuff is harder than you knew. Those of you who are able, consider yourselves lucky...



Or cursed.

[moodymonster]

The man takes the chicken across first, leaving the fox and grain together on the other side.

He returns and gets the fox, but when he deposits the fox on the other side, he takes the chicken BACK across, so that the fox and chicken aren't left alone together.

He drops the chicken off back on the other side, picks up the grain, and takes it across to deposit with the fox.

Finally, he returns to retrieve the chicken and takes it to the other side.

At no time were the fox and chicken left alone together, nor were the chicken and grain.
At no time was more than one of them in the boat with the man simultaneously.

ta da

or theres the one with the dots, the three people at the bus stop, the two robots one and so on...

[moodymonster]

or for real life examples - the rise of the PC versus the existing corporate America. ie the ones in power didn't see it coming.

WW2 SAS raids driving straight into German airfields and shooting up planes on the ground. Who would have thought someone would drive across the desert and drive into an enemy airfield.

The British during the Falklands War attacking from the rear by marching across the island while the Argentinians were looking the other way.

For the 'in the box thinking' see the head of the US patents office circa 1899 who said everything that could be invented had been, so the patents office should be closed. As we all know, the 20th century didn't see much innovation.

In essence thinking that is outside of the usual constraints but immediately obvious to all once known.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Creating an "exercise" like this would seem to me to only hinder the process IMHO.

Only if you apply rules to the initial stages. I'm talking no rules at all, not even those of physics.

[wallinbl]

I can barely think inside the box. I think my brain is just wired up differently, as I'll have a different opinion on nearly anything that comes up, and can generally propose a solution that no one else was going to think of. I'm very good at creative solutions under pressure.

On the flip side, I'm terrible at following the rules or doing things the "right" way. It makes life hard sometimes since everyone else just looks at you like "it's really simple, just do it already".

I think it really boils down to how your brain works. I'm generally going in many directions at once, and can't focus myself to a single thought or task. Most others seem to be the opposite and have trouble letting their mind run all over the place. People come to me for ideas, but they hardly ever ask me to be the implementer.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by moodymonster

the box is a metaphor for a set of rules.

thinking outside the box is to view those rules differently.

an old example: (fox, chicken, grain)

That's not properly "thinking outside the box"...

...properly "thinking outside the box" would see the farmer somehow managing to get Jessica Alba, Gisele Bundchen and Evangeline Lilly to bring their boats and row the items across for him simultaneously. Naked. While he took the cat over in his boat.

[Dakar]

Doing something that no one has conceived of or approaching something from a different perspective than most, to be vague.

[abe]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

I can barely think inside the box. I think my brain is just wired up differently, as I'll have a different opinion on nearly anything that comes up, and can generally propose a solution that no one else was going to think of. I'm very good at creative solutions under pressure.

On the flip side, I'm terrible at following the rules or doing things the "right" way. It makes life hard sometimes since everyone else just looks at you like "it's really simple, just do it already".

I think it really boils down to how your brain works. I'm generally going in many directions at once, and can't focus myself to a single thought or task. Most others seem to be the opposite and have trouble letting their mind run all over the place. People come to me for ideas, but they hardly ever ask me to be the implementer.

Part of me can relate to your plight.

Here's a story.

Once in a HS class we were discussing a hypothetical situation and then someone added a different theoretical twist to the already abstract concept. The teacher didn't get it. Several people tried to 'splain it to him and they had a tough time conceptualizing the way to explain it and finding just the right words to describe what we all understood but the instructor.

This went on for a few moments and then I raised my hand and verbalized what was in everyone's mind. The sense of relief felt by all with my being able to give the teacher this idea was so strong that the whole class spontaneously burst into applause.

This is the first time I've ever recounted that experience.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Doofy

That's not properly "thinking outside the box"...

...properly "thinking outside the box" would see the farmer somehow managing to get Jessica Alba, Gisele Bundchen and Evangeline Lilly to bring their boats and row the items across for him simultaneously. Naked. While he took the cat over in his boat.

Your parallel construct is an example of thinking not only outside the box, but OF 'boxes' too!

[Dakar]

Do you find Gene Shalit funny?

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Do you find Gene Shalit funny?

He makes me smile and groan sometimes.

Why?

[Dakar]

Your last joke made me think of him.

[Monique]

Not to come up with predictable solutions, answers, designs...

[Dr.Michael]

It means [Mac Translation] Think Different [/Mac Translation]

[sabrejim]

Originally Posted by Salty

I've always thought it meant to think outside of the ways things have always been done, or are expected to be done.

I once had a pastor show me this thing with 9 dots in a 3/3 grid. He asked me to connect them without living my pen from the page, only drawing straight lines. I drew 5 lines. He then coyly showed me how to do it with four lines by going outside of the 3/3 grid. He said he was going to use it in the next week's sermon. That said this was also when he was explaining to me that I was too young at the age of 19 to lead a bunch of 16 year olds in a Bible study... so I turned around and by the next day I'd drawn a diagram in FreeHand of how to do it in 3 lines.
Unfortunately he mentioned me in the next sermon and mentioned how I'd shown him how to do it in three... everyone laughed cause cute David showed the pastor something... I later walked out of the sermon cause I thought he was a huge hypocrite ... we're better now though .

3 straight lines without lifting? HOW?

[andi*pandi]

in other words, subvert the dominant paradigm.

[Salty]

Originally Posted by kaze0

3 straight lines without lifting? HOW?

/\/

I drew it in Freehand. I said that unless you assumed that you had to pass directly through the centre of each dot, if you gave the line a dramatic enough slope, it might require a big sheet of paper but you could pass through each dot so long as they were each more than an atom thick .

[Spliffdaddy]

"Think outside the box" is typically what you're told to do when another company is kicking your ass by doing things the normal way.

If the folks in charge haven't got a clue how to manage the business - it sounds good to suggest that the employees "think outside the box".

"Thinking outside the box" is generally followed by bankruptcy and failure.

When your company is constantly "re-inventing" itself, it's because they don't excel at anything.

In the 16 years I worked at AT&T, they "re-invented" their business plan annually.

Lo and behold I see there's a "New AT&T".

Wonder what the hell they do *this* year. I never figured out what that company did the entire time I worked there.

But they were always "thinking outside the box."

[abe]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

in other words, subvert the dominant paradigm.

Very economical. I LIKE that in an explanation.

[abe]

Originally Posted by Dakar

Your last joke made me think of him.

I am pleased to evoke comparison to yet another celebrated individual associated with the arts. But, as you might attest, I am as likely to employ a humorous device associated with Gene Shalit as I would any other.

Almost anything for a laff!

Thank you.

[FeLiZeCaT]

Originally Posted by abe

From a post in the P/L comes an interesting question:

What does it mean to "think outside the box?""



A discussion this provocative deserves to be shared with a wider audience, in a larger box, if you will. I'm opening a new thread on this topic, What does it mean to "think outside the box?"

Here's the link http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...=1#post2968340

OK.

Thinking outside of a box, in a larger box...

So... thinking outside of a box inside a larger one?

Chicken, meet egg. Egg, meet chicken.

I think it refers to looking at things in context: stop watching the tree, and look at all the trees, together, at once.

[Doofy]

There is no spoon.


















(Aww, c'mon. Someone had to say it)

[ironknee]

box=the average person's concept of what is true (95% of the world's population)

outside of the box=creative people. in music, visual arts, science, writing, performing etc...(1 to 5%)

most people "think" they think out of the box. they don't. they see other parts of the box and think it "creative". example: song paradies. best that they can do is make slogans.

[andi*pandi]

"life in a box is better than no life at all."

does this mean that thinking in a box is better than no thinking at all?

[BlueSky]

Thinking outside the box: Transcending a State of Non-Objective Cognizant Awareness to a State of Cliché.

[quilmes]

is this a real thread?

[abe]

Originally Posted by smellycat

is this a real thread?

That's an example of really good outside the box thinking. But why would you think to doubt it? And what is your definition of a REAL thread?

[SpaceMonkey]

I'm trying. Have any of you noticed brain damage? I've had negatives experiences with microwaves before and I don't want to repeat the same injury. Can one really escape the EMF?

Besides from removing the mecury from my personal hygiene resovior, what can I do to protect my brain?

[abe]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

I'm trying. Have any of you noticed brain damage? I've had negatives experiences with microwaves before and I don't want to repeat the same injury. Can one really escape the EMF?

Besides from removing the mecury from my personal hygiene resovior, what can I do to protect my brain?

While you may be possessed of the ability to think outside the box, you are being intentionally abstract here. So, it's either an example of showing off or posing or an affectation.

If you want someone to respond to your post seriously, make the effort to communicate, not ostentate.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty

/\/

I drew it in Freehand. I said that unless you assumed that you had to pass directly through the centre of each dot, if you gave the line a dramatic enough slope, it might require a big sheet of paper but you could pass through each dot so long as they were each more than an atom thick .

Three lines? Pfft.

I could do it in one. It'd be about 75,000 miles long though.

[tavilach]

Originally Posted by moodymonster

ta da

or theres the one with the dots, the three people at the bus stop, the two robots one and so on...

I was thinking outside a different box. I figured that you could simply feed the grain to the fox, take the fox across, and then take the chicken across!

[moodymonster]

Originally Posted by Doofy

There is no spoon.

that's the first thing I thought when I saw this thread

[abe]

Originally Posted by moodymonster

that's the first thing I thought when I saw this thread

Removed due to Doofy's helpful explanation. Thanks, Doofy!

Apologies to moodymonster!

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by abe

And seeing no spoon here you decided you would remedy that by leaving your mark?

Don't go there Abe. Moody is simply acknowledging that all three parts of the Matrix have been shown for the first time ever on UK terrestrial TV this week. Last week, every other ad break on ITV1 had a Matrix promo slot.

[abe]

Ok. When we start going off on tangents (haha!) that tells me it's time to get to work.

Now that all (or most) of you have displayed an understanding of what thinking outside the box actually means, here is an opportunity for you to put that skill to use.

http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.p...02#post2970602

[abe]

Bump

[maxx9photo]

What kind of box is it? pizza box, moving box or...?? I always wear a box..er when I'm thinking

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by abe

If you want someone to respond to your post seriously, make the effort to communicate, not ostentate.

Thankfully, that wasn't my goal.

[abe]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

Thankfully, that wasn't my goal.

[jamil5454]

When I "think outside the box", I basically just let my imagination run wild for half a second, and then transpose that idea into reality. Hard to explain, but works very well. Some people call it being "random".

Thinking outside the box and understanding the bigger picture usually go hand in hand.