[krillbee]

I have graduated college now, and am looking for a job in computer tech support.
But I dont know how to best fill out an application if I've been fired before.

I worked for 2.25 years for my campus IT helpdesk. I worked in 2 different areas under 2 different bosses. the 2nd boss fired me for accidently busting a computer that i was performing an unauthorized experiment on. I know I made a mistake, and I never will do anything like that again.

But... I dont want this to hold me back from getting an IT job in the future. My boss who fired me, told me he wouldnt outright mention i was fired if a prospective employer called. But if they ask, then who knows, he may tell them.

So whats the best way of working around this mess? Only list the first boss and job? List the 2nd, but fill in some BS under the "reason for leaving" on the app? Outright tell them I was once fired?

What if they ask on the app if I was fired previously, and to explain circumstances?

[Salty]

Depends my policy is always honesty. Then again the person who fired me from my first job was a crazy crazy person. My suggestion would be to say you had a lapse in judgement and have since learned a valuable lesson. Or something like that.

[Gamoe]

In my experience, job applications practically require you to lie or exaggerate, or otherwise not actually get the job. It's sad, as I try to be an honest person and I like to be straight-out about things, but I've found that one has to have more guile in filling out such applications.

I suggest you go talk to your prior boss and simply ask him about it. If he'll support you, then put him on your resumé. If he won't, or you have doubts that he will, simply don't list the job at all. You didn't commit a criminal offense, and you don't have to incriminate yourself or make yourself look bad.

As an employer, I would appreciate such honesty, but I don't think anyone really has a right to ask you about all of your past work experience. Shouldn't the ones that worked out be proof enough that you're reliable? And, truth be told, I don't think most employers put as much emphasis on honesty as they do on a nice, artificial, but spotless work record which says less about you than they think it does.

On a side note, notice the imbalance of power in the situation: If you have to disclose all your mistakes, faults, etc... Then shouldn't you also be entitled to a report with all of your boss's previous problems, altercations, and so forth-- If only so you could judge what type of boss he is and he is right for you?

[Tyler McAdams]

You do not have to use a reference from you old job. You could say you do not know who is working there now... but here are some people who know me well.

One bit of advise. I see people getting turned down all the time in this industry because they don't know the correct brand name of a technology. This makes no sense whatsoever. If somebody asks you if you know hwo to use Partition Magic but you know "Partition commander" which does the exact same thing but is made by a different company, just tell them you know it. Technically you're not lying since it's the same thing.. and since you're in a technical field it would be wise to view it that way. Remember that most technical recruiter can't even tie their shoes and it is up to you to put on a good show and get past the interview looking good in their eyes.

[andi*pandi]

Tyler's right, list the job on the resume by all means, but don't use that boss as a reference. As far as if they ask why you left, you could say "to pursue other opportunities" or "focus on my schoolwork."

[Monique]

It is nice to read posts from people that have no experience in the field.

Never tell a future employer that you were fired. Play with words, like I would like to work in a place where my future endevours would be fufilled, unfortunatly I prefer working withing a team, etc. Put a positive spin on the negative aspects of your work life. If you fill out an application say that you were let go, meaning that there were cuts in the budget. Do not give the address and phone number of your past workplace unless you have to. For references get them from your co-workers.

If they ask why did you work in so many places, tell him or her that you wanted your work experience to reflect all aspects of your work.

Take charge of the interview.

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by Monique

It is nice to read posts from people that have no experience in the field.

Never tell a future employer that you were fired. Play with words, like I would like to work in a place where my future endevours would be fufilled, unfortunatly I prefer working withing a team, etc. Put a positive spin on the negative aspects of your work life. If you fill out an application say that you were let go, meaning that there were cuts in the budget. Do not give the address and phone number of your past workplace unless you have to. For references get them from your co-workers.

If they ask why did you work in so many places, tell him or her that you wanted your work experience to reflect all aspects of your work.

Take charge of the interview.

I totally agree. "Play with words" doesn't mean lie... but you should NEVER say "I was fired" if those words come out of your mouth... you will never get the job.

[powerbook867]

I would not tell them you were fired. If you are still on good terms with the first boss, give him a call or drop him an e-mail and try and feel out what what his response would be to a reference check.

Many companies today will only give up your dates of employment and would they hire you again. Maybe a call to campus HR would resolve all your issues. Give them a shout and see if they have you marked as rehirable. If you are lucky, maybe that's all you need to do, then give HR as a reference. Then explain to the interviewer the policy the campus...

Good luck!

[Monique]

You do not need to give a boss as a reference. Use co-workers.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

List the job but don't put it as a reference.

Have you found that places you apply to actually call your previous employers? In my field it has never happened to me.

[krillbee]

Originally Posted by andi*pandi

Tyler's right, list the job on the resume by all means, but don't use that boss as a reference. As far as if they ask why you left, you could say "to pursue other opportunities" or "focus on my schoolwork."

Well, a lot of applications ask you to list the name of the supervisor, and thats where problems occur.

What else would I put there? I suppose I could put the name of my old supervisor (who still works at that college) But then that supervisor would have to say I only worked under him for 2/3 of the time. the last 1/3 of my time there, I was under the different supervisor the one who fired me.

Originally Posted by Monique

Never tell a future employer that you were fired.

so what do you say if you are specifically asked on an application: have you ever been discharged/terminated/fired?
how the heck do you respond to that question? lol

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

In my experience, job applications practically require you to lie or exaggerate, or otherwise not actually get the job. It's sad, as I try to be an honest person and I like to be straight-out about things, but I've found that one has to have more guile in filling out such applications.

agreed. the workplace is ruthless!

On a side note, notice the imbalance of power in the situation: If you have to disclose all your mistakes, faults, etc... Then shouldn't you also be entitled to a report with all of your boss's previous problems, altercations, and so forth-- If only so you could judge what type of boss he is and he is right for you?

the reason there is this power imbalance, is because in general there are more people looking for jobs than there are jobs looking for people. Therefore the demand situation puts the power in the employer's hands.

Originally Posted by powerbook867

Many companies today will only give up your dates of employment and would they hire you again. Maybe a call to campus HR would resolve all your issues. Give them a shout and see if they have you marked as rehirable. If you are lucky, maybe that's all you need to do, then give HR as a reference. Then explain to the interviewer the policy the campus...

Good luck!

good idea, i will check it out.
thanks!

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Have you found that places you apply to actually call your previous employers? In my field it has never happened to me.

I thought they would. I mean how else are they supposed to verify where you have worked in the past?

[ghporter]

There are a number of reasons your previous supervisor may be unreachable or otherwise unusable as a reference. If you do not ask the person to be a reference, he can't give you his permission, can he? So you can honestly put "this individual did not make himself available as a reference." You can also honestly say that you did not get along at the end of your employment.

Of course if asked directly, you should be completely honest-to the degree that the question is direct. "Have you ever been fired" should get a "yes" from you. "Why were you fired" (the next logical question) can be answered a number of ways, in this case you chould be honest and say that you overstepped your authority to work on equipment (totally honest) and maybe even say that you saw why you shouldn't have done so because you damaged the machine. It all depends on exactly what's asked and the atmosphere and tone in the interview. NEVER LIE, but don't volunteer information, either.

A final note, if you do not tell the interviewer that you were fired, or that it was because you damaged someone else's equipment, you should make very sure you never tell a coworker those things either. Word gets around.

[Monique]

Budget cuts; this is why it is useful to have a friend or co-worker as a back up for a reference. And it is very rare that a company or an employment agency will try to disprove it. If asked in an interview deflect the question saying that this company did not provide you with the kind of future you are looking for.

[Rumor]

Whatever happened to the days when you got a job on a conversation and a handshake?

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Whatever happened to the days when you got a job on a conversation and a handshake?

Did you try running for President?

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Monique

Budget cuts; this is why it is useful to have a friend or co-worker as a back up for a reference. And it is very rare that a company or an employment agency will try to disprove it. If asked in an interview deflect the question saying that this company did not provide you with the kind of future you are looking for.

Sooo...he should lie outright and make sure he's got a friend who will lie for him too.
Then answer the same question differently in the interview when the interviewer is holding your resume? Wow...your intelligence astounds me.

ghporter has the right idea for the most part

[Socially Awkward Solo]

I never list my previous BOSS but always a project manager or other type of co-worker. Nobody has ever questioned me as to why.

[davesimondotcom]

You could always hire someone to wack the guy, off the guy, or wack off the guy.

Then you could use him as a reference and he'd never say anything.

Or just tell them he moved to a small, independent country in Quahog, RI called Petoria, never to be heard from again.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Sooo...he should lie outright and make sure he's got a friend who will lie for him too.
Then answer the same question differently in the interview when the interviewer is holding your resume? Wow...your intelligence astounds me.

It's enough to make you wonder if Monique has ever actually had a job.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey

It's enough to make you wonder if Monique has ever actually had a job.

Does welfare count?

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Does welfare count?

And what proof do you have that I am on welfare versus working??

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Monique

And what proof do you have that I am on welfare versus working??

The same "proof" you used to publicly pronounce that I have never been able to get a job or hold onto one.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

The same "proof" you used to publicly pronounce that I have never been able to get a job or hold onto one.

You are not worth it and never will be.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Monique

You are not worth it and never will be.

Okay. The joke was that because your job-getting advice is so terrible, you must never have had a job, so, haha, maybe you're on welfare, haha, wink, haha, FRIGGIN WINK.
Seriously...

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Okay. The joke was that because your job-getting advice is so terrible, you must never have had a job, so, haha, maybe you're on welfare, haha, wink, haha, FRIGGIN WINK.
Seriously...

I know eh, what a miserable creature.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Monique

You are not worth it and never will be.

Nice way to ignore the fact that you said that though. Seemed I was worth it for you then

[memory-minus]

Do not in any way lie on a resume, application or in an interview for a government job. After going through the process, getting the job and subsequently having my background investigation done, I am glad I didn't. I love my job, but if you lie or fudge it will be uncovered and you will be terminated or worse, charged with a crime.

Your resume will be checked against your background investigation paperwork for consistency. You are required to list any instances where you were fired from a position for any reason. These instances will be checked, trust me. You will be required to explain any gaps in employment of any length. All of this will be done in paperwork and in a face-to-face interview with a federal agent. Seriously.

I suspect private employers are far more sloppy but I also believe this is changing rapidly. I suggest putting "job ended" on an application but acknowledging the job ended because you were terminated if asked. I read somewhere that, in an interview, it's best to mention it before you're asked, try to frame it in a positive light by mentioning what you learned, and move on. You've got several people in this thread telling you to lie or fudge; I'm saying, don't do it. If word gets out you lied on your resume or in an interview, it will tarnish your reputation far worse than being honest regarding your, from what I can ascertain, prior termination for a youthful indiscretion.

Good luck!

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Does welfare count?

Originally Posted by Monique

And what proof do you have that I am on welfare versus working??

Originally Posted by Monique

You are not worth it and never will be.

Nice bitch fight.



-t

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Whatever happened to the days when you got a job on a conversation and a handshake?

I know what you mean. My son, just out of his first year in college, is looking for work. At least 2/3 of the places he has found that are hiring have their application process handled online. What kind of impression can you make that way? Answer: exactly the impression your application data makes. So if the application asks questions that don't make sense, your answers may make you look stupid.

And seeing the caliber of some people who do get hired, you have to wonder if they had someone do their online app for them! Sheesh!

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I know what you mean. My son, just out of his first year in college, is looking for work. At least 2/3 of the places he has found that are hiring have their application process handled online. What kind of impression can you make that way? Answer: exactly the impression your application data makes. So if the application asks questions that don't make sense, your answers may make you look stupid.

And seeing the caliber of some people who do get hired, you have to wonder if they had someone do their online app for them! Sheesh!

I really don't like that. I've got to four career fairs now (2 a year) trying to get an internship, and most companies tell me to go and fill out an application online. What they don't tell you is that their database program simply scans your application for keywords they want and then only those few get an interview.
Although, when you're going through ~2000 odd resumes, this is probably the most efficient way to do it.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by memory-minus

Do not in any way lie on a resume, application or in an interview for a government job.

I don't think most posters here are advocating lying, but merely to be smart about what to write and say, because employers are smart (or not) about the way they present themselves, too.

It's really not equitable or fair that an applicant need disclose certain information to an employer and yet an employer need not disclose the same information. In fact, I'd like to see employers hand over a few sheets of the same information so that the potential employee can also judge whether the employer is compatible with him.

Furthermore, we do no live in a communist society where all is controlled by one single entity, and all jobs are government jobs. Non-related relationships are just that. Your business relationship with your previous employer is separate with that of your present or potential employer. Unless you've committed a documented and proven criminal offense, I don't believe that as an applicant you have any moral duty to disclose any information about any previous employment. Though, that does not mean that you can't, if it's beneficial to you or you elect to do so.

I advocate honestly, however if you're employer asks you questions that he really has no right to do so (as I argue asking about ever being fired before is) then you have a right to refuse to answer or deflect the question, at least.

Now, applying for a government job has some additional implications, and I don't think you should outright lie if asked a question in this situation, and honesty is best, but not blind, dumb honesty.

Well sorry if I went off on a philosophical tangent, as your question is one of a practical nature, krillbee. But I do so only because it is my underlying philosophy which determines my view on this (and all) matters.

Oh, and I don't like lengthy online applications either. I would rather get a chance to talk and explain myself with the interviewer than to be judged based on a practically meaningless application form before even having a chance to properly talk to an interviewer.

I wouldn't object to a short and direct application meant to convey basic information for a later interview, but these ridiculous online forms will have you waste at least 1/2 an hour, if not in excess of an hour just to hope someone will see your application. And I say waste your time because that's what its been for me for the most part. Companies these days don't even have the courtesy to send you a reply, regardless. You've wasted your time, but they can't waste two minutes sending a standard stock rejection letter to you, even.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

It's really not equitable or fair that an applicant need disclose certain information to an employer and yet an employer need not disclose the same information. In fact, I'd like to see employers hand over a few sheets of the same information so that the potential employee can also judge whether the employer is compatible with him.

It's called research. You check out a company's website or even visit beforehand to get an idea of what it is. What kind of moron would go a job interview and have no idea what the company does or is about? And most interviewers ask you if you have any questions about the company, so you DO have a chance to find out about the company

Furthermore, we do no [sic] live in a communist society where all is controlled by one single entity, and all jobs are government jobs. Non-related relationships are just that. Your business relationship with your previous employer is separate with that of your present or potential employer. Unless you've committed a documented and proven criminal offense, I don't believe that as an applicant you have any moral duty to disclose any information about any previous employment.

Put yourself in a employer's seat. You're interviewing a possible candidate for a job. All you know about him/her is what's on the resume and what he/she is telling you. And as far as I can tell from the posts on this board, it all could be total bs. How do you know if this person truly is going to be a good worker? Past work experience. If he or she's been fired from their past 5 jobs for being lazy, incompetent slobs, I wouldn't want them working for me. The employer simply wants the best person for the job, so as to avoid having to fire you in two weeks because it turns out you're a pyro that set your last 3 buildings on fire.

I advocate honestly, however if you're employer asks you questions that he really has no right to do so (as I argue asking about ever being fired before is) then you have a right to refuse to answer or deflect the question, at least.

You do realize this is practically an admission of guilt?
Employer: So why did you leave you previous job?
You: Oh, I wanted to take my career in a different direction.
Employer: And the job before that?
You: Uh...budget cuts.
Employer: And before that?
You: Well...I needed better advancement opportunities.
Employer: Have you ever been fired?
You: I refuse to answer that.
Employer: Why?
You: Because you, seeing as it is your job to pick the best candidate for the job, have no right to look at my past performance and use it to decided if I'll be appropriate for the job.
Employer: You do realize that I interview hundreds of people, and I've heard every line in the book?
You: No, seriously! Different directions!

Now, applying for a government job has some additional implications, and I don't think you should outright lie if asked a question in this situation, and honesty is best, but not blind, dumb honesty.

What's the difference between honesty and blind, dumb honesty? The previous poster said they will find out everything about you. So if stretch or twist the truth in any way, they'll find out.

Well sorry if I went off on a philosophical tangent, as your question is one of a practical nature, krillbee. But I do so only because it is my underlying philosophy which determines my view on this (and all) matters.

This wasn't philosophical, this was just crappy advice.

[Monique]

No they won't find out everything; unless you are applying for the government.

It is different when you get fired for any reasons. The future employers do not look if you were right or not; he hears fired and then pass to another candidate.

Fudge the truth, tell lies, avoid the question, change the vocabulary.

Unless you were a thief, there is no reason why you should be penalized the rest of your life about getting fired.

[ghporter]

A lot of employers, especially those with sensitive jobs, do criminal background checks. But that won't show up a firing.

I agree with Monique that you shouldn't be penalized for the rest of your life for being fired, especially while in college and learning the ropes of adulthood. But do NOT lie. Leaving out details that are not requested isn't lying, but telling a falsehood is. Do not provide any information that isn't requested, but all the information you provide must be truthful or you'll eventually wind up caught one way or another.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by gossamer

Originally Posted by the other guy

Now, applying for a government job has some additional implications, and I don't think you should outright lie if asked a question in this situation, and honesty is best, but not blind, dumb honesty.

What's the difference between honesty and blind, dumb honesty? The previous poster said they will find out everything about you. So if stretch or twist the truth in any way, they'll find out.

Originally Posted by Monique

No they won't find out everything; unless you are applying for the government.

READ, MONIQUE, FRIGGIN READ!.

Originally Posted by Monique

It is different when you get fired for any reasons. The future employers do not look if you were right or not; he hears fired and then pass to another candidate.

Fudge the truth, tell lies, avoid the question, change the vocabulary.

This is TERRIBLE advice. Like my previous post said, these recruiters have interviewed hundreds, maybe even thousands of candidates. Don't you think they've heard every 'change of vocabulary' or 'twist of words?' Of course they have, and they'll see right though your transparent BS.

[Doofy]

Bear in mind that some managers have actually read books like this one, which actually suggests that certain kinds of people who keep getting fired are sometimes the best people for the job.

In essence, in certain environments ambitious or capable people get fired by their managers for being a threat to them - because they're too good and are likely to oust the manager from his job at some point.

My employment criteria: You lie to me (at any point), you get fired. I can work with dullards, thickos and other assorted idiots, even lazy folks (they can be positioned accordingly). I can't work with liars.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

It's called research. You check out a company's website or even visit beforehand to get an idea of what it is. What kind of moron would go a job interview and have no idea what the company does or is about? And most interviewers ask you if you have any questions about the company, so you DO have a chance to find out about the company

Even with research there are things that are difficult or practically impossible to ascertain, such as-- Does your boss have a conflicting personality? Does he have a history of emotional outbursts? etc. These are things that, in one way or another, are usually asked by an application and interviewer.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Put yourself in a employer's seat.

Put yourself in the potential employee's seat, who happens to have much less power in this situation. As an employer, of course you'd like to know everything about this person, but it just isn't your right and you'll have to have a certain degree of trust, like the employee has to have with his boss. If it doesn't work out, an employer always has the option to fire you.

As has already been stated, there is no need or moral duty to be penalized for something that happened on another job, which may or may not have been your fault.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

You do realize this is practically an admission of guilt?

It's not, though the way you put it makes it seem so. In any case, I'm not advocating lying. It's also a different case when you're already with an interviewer. There you can properly explain yourself, and generally the interviewer will listen, and not merely end the interview then and there, which is different than writing "yes" on an application form which will be trashed shorty after because of that.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

What's the difference between honesty and blind, dumb honesty?

Honesty is one thing. Being completely naive and volunteering information unnecessarily and making yourself look bad is unwise.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

The previous poster said they will find out everything about you. So if stretch or twist the truth in any way, they'll find out.

That's my whole point about not living in a communist country. They won't find out, because it's not their right. Unless you've committed a criminal offense, there's no reason they should or would, and there's no reason why you should continue to drag something that happened outside of your (potential) relationship with a different company or business.

Oh, and sorry if I don't take a poster's opinion as the ultimate and end-all truth, instead of merely another opinion to be considered, as everyone's opinion is entitled to be.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

This wasn't philosophical, this was just crappy advice.

Sorry you feel a need to be rude. I'll make of note of it for your next potential employer.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Put yourself in the potential employee's seat, who happens to have much less power in this situation. As an employer, of course you'd like to know everything about this person, but it just isn't your right and you'll have to have a certain degree of trust, like the employee has to have with his boss. If it doesn't work out, an employer always has the option to fire you.

Where do you get this idea that they don't have the 'right?' It's their company that you want to work for. They can choose whoever the heck they want, and they're going to choose the best person for the job, in their eyes, all criteria considered. And of course they can fire you, but that's after they've wasted tons of time and money seeking out and hiring you, then they have to find another replacement, so you could have effectively cost them weeks or even months of ineffectivity.

That's my whole point about not living in a communist country. They won't find out, because it's not their right. Unless you've committed a criminal offense, there's no reason they should or would, and there's no reason why you should continue to drag something that happened outside of your (potential) relationship with a different company or business.

Once again, why isn't it their right? And the previous poster said, they WILL find out. They're the government, they could make you not exist if they wanted, so do you think they'll have any trouble finding out your work history? Of course not.

Sorry you feel a need to be rude. I'll make of note of it for your next potential employer.

That's right, because all employers ask for a person's online identies so that they can check random message boards to see if that person's posted there...

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Where do you get this idea that they don't have the 'right?' It's their company that you want to work for. They can choose whoever the heck they want, and they're going to choose the best person for the job, in their eyes, all criteria considered.

I don't disagree with any of that.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

And of course they can fire you, but that's after they've wasted tons of time and money seeking out and hiring you, then they have to find another replacement, so you could have effectively cost them weeks or even months of ineffectivity.

Indeed, it almost brings a tear to my eye.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Once again, why isn't it their right? And the previous poster said, they WILL find out.

Potential employers have a right to certain information from potential employees, but they do not have a right to the full employment histories of their potential employees, simply because those are relationships outside the boundaries of that particular (potential) relationship. This is what you don't get. And if they are a private business, then no, they won't necessarily find out.

That said, an employer doesn't find you have sufficient references or work experience for his tastes, or he doesn't like some information you've volunteered, then he's perfectly within his rights to deny you employment under him. But he doesn't have a right to access work history you've not volunteered, unless it involves a criminal offense.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

They're the government, they could make you not exist if they wanted, so do you think they'll have any trouble finding out your work history? Of course not.

First off, go re-read krillbee's first post if you like-- there's no mention of a government job. Secondly, I've already stated that such jobs have additional implications. Thirdly, you seem to have unquestionably accepted that the government is and should be involved in all persons' personal and business affairs, which is not the case. As for "making you not exist"... not in a nation of laws and due process, my dear Gossamer.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

That's right, because all employers ask for a person's online identies so that they can check random message boards to see if that person's posted there...

Why not? They should have the right to check out everything they can about you, regardless of privacy, just to discern if you meet their criteria. Regardless, they will find out, right?

Gossamer, I suggest you drop this hostile attitude. It does no one any good.

[Tyler McAdams]

Originally Posted by Rumor

Whatever happened to the days when you got a job on a conversation and a handshake?

I'm not entirely convinced they ever existed at this point.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Wired has a story on just this subject today:

http://www.wired.com/news/culture/0,71047-0.html

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

First off, go re-read krillbee's first post if you like-- there's no mention of a government job. Secondly, I've already stated that such jobs have additional implications. Thirdly, you seem to have unquestionably accepted that the government is and should be involved in all persons' personal and business affairs, which is not the case. As for "making you not exist"... not in a nation of laws and due process, my dear Gossamer.

I wasn't addressing krillbee's post, but I was addressing government jobs specifically.
While most would agree the government shouldn't be involved in all of one's personal and business affairs, some believe that that already are.
And the 'making you not exist' was mostly a figure of speech, but I'm sure they could do it if they wanted.

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Why not? They should have the right to check out everything they can about you, regardless of privacy, just to discern if you meet their criteria. Regardless, they will find out, right?

There's a difference between doing a thorough background search using commonly and easily available tools and randoming fishing on the net for info.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Personally i take huge offense when at an interview the client wants to test me.

I am a graphic designer BTW. They spend an hour interviewing me and going through my resumé and portfolio and then still want to give me some stupid test of making a banner ad? Gimmie a break. I walk out of the interview at that point. It is fine if they want to have a 2 week trial period but I should get paid for that time.

Years ago I landed an interview at a CBC TV as a web designer. They arraigned a time and date only later to call me back and say: "Can you write a report on our current site evaluating what is wrong with it and what you would do to change it? It should be 3-5 pages. Bring it in when you come for the interview" I almost laughed to death and told them that if they want this type of service from me they can pay me an hourly wage.

I know damn well out of the 50 people they have do this they will hire ONE of them and hand him a stack of reports and say "Ok, read this and change the site accordingly".

[andi*pandi]

^^that is sneaky pool.

When I was just starting out they used to make you take typing and spelling tests, which did feel insulting, given my GPA and college degree. Placement agencies still do "skill tests" which again seem insulting, but if every Tom Dick and Jane lists their InDesign skills at a 10, but really only have a 4, then the recruiter isn't going to believe my 8 until they test.

Back then I did several "full day interviews" where I got paid and they got to see me in action, and I got to see if I really wanted to work there. Seemed reasonable at the time.

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I wasn't addressing krillbee's post, but I was addressing government jobs specifically.
While most would agree the government shouldn't be involved in all of one's personal and business affairs, some believe that that already are.
And the 'making you not exist' was mostly a figure of speech, but I'm sure they could do it if they wanted.

Government jobs are a little different, because they are generally funded via tax money, and the concept of "public servant" and the like creep in, which do make such jobs different from that of private companies.

As for the disappearing part-- I'm sure there has been more than one case of this, even here in the U.S., but I hope, for democracy's sake, that it is the exception rather than the rule.

Originally Posted by Gossamer

There's a difference between doing a thorough background search using commonly and easily available tools and randoming fishing on the net for info.

That might be, but I've heard a lot lately about employers looking for employees' and (maybe potential employees') blogs and so forth. Some people are even silly enough to post with their own names...

Interesting point about employer "testing", Solo!

Hopefully krillbee (and others) have gotten something good out of this thread.

[memory-minus]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Government jobs are a little different, because they are generally funded via tax money, and the concept of "public servant" and the like creep in, which do make such jobs different from that of private companies.

Yes, this is exactly right. Your tax dollars pay my salary, so to help ensure that I am an honest, efficient and knowledgeable employee, an extensive background check was done.

The point I was trying to make in my post above was that, just based on my observations, private companies are starting to implement these background investigations as routine in more cases.

[DigitalEl]

Originally Posted by memory-minus

Do not in any way lie on a resume, application or in an interview for a government job. After going through the process, getting the job and subsequently having my background investigation done, I am glad I didn't. I love my job, but if you lie or fudge it will be uncovered and you will be terminated or worse, charged with a crime.

Your resume will be checked against your background investigation paperwork for consistency. You are required to list any instances where you were fired from a position for any reason. These instances will be checked, trust me. You will be required to explain any gaps in employment of any length. All of this will be done in paperwork and in a face-to-face interview with a federal agent. Seriously.

Agreed. I work for a city. In my application packet, I had to list EVERY job I've ever held. Since I'm in my mid-30s, I asked the recruiter whether they were serious. In the end, they DID really want to talk to someone at the K mart I worked for in college and at the Little Caesars I worked for in high school. Seems like an incredible waste of time to me, but had I lied about anything, I most certainly would not have been hired.

That being said, most private sector employers don't do such a thorough background check. Your best bet, krillbee, is to ask your question of others in your industry.