[The Godfather]

You can say that my area is not the cheapest place in the US, yet the last time I filled up my gas tank I paid US$2.61 per gallon. It is pretty unbelievable. It hasn't been this cheap in a LOOONG time.

I know it is affecting my life. For example, I can eat in restarants more often and movies and stuff again. Moreover, my county is thinking about having a gas tax holiday (10 cents) through the next three months. If the Hummer 2 was still in production I would consider buying one. (j/k).

Has it affected your life?

[jokell82]

Gas has been rising where I live lately. It's almost $3/gal again. I really don't expect it to get under $2 again anytime soon...

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Gas has hovered around $1/litre for quite some time in most parts of Canada that I know.

[whgoodman]

Why would you expect it to go down again? BigOil has found that we'll pay no matter what the cost. Every winter there are heating oil supply issues that drive up the price. Every spring there is a gasoline supply issue while they 'cut over' the refineries to summer formula which drives up the price. Seems that if the supply issues are that regular then you could plan for them a bit better to smooth out the spikes in consumer cost.

[jsousa]

I'm going to get killed for this considering their aren't many mac users that take this aproach to these; However,

People will pay for the higher prices. But also it has to do with a supply and demand issue; people continually demadn more oil (since no one wants to drive a low consuming compact). Unless the oil companies are Coluding, then its simply an issue of supply and demand. However, these oil companies are also dealing with a lot of risk. Think about it, with emerging technologies coming out(Bio Deisel, extermlye efficeint non hybrid cars, and possibilities of Hydrogen), and the fact that they are not self relient on their oil supplys, and everyone hates them whihc brings out a strong chance of government interference withe their operations. they deserve to have high earnings cause they are in an industry that has a high risk of a dangerous future.

Also remember an oil company is typically publically traded. What does that mean? That means their isn't one rich fat cat who recieves the billions in profits it goes out to little suzie whos grandparents bought her a mutual fund for college, or Blue Collar Joe who has a modest portfolio that he setup at wells fargo to help him prepare for his future. The Fat Cat Ivory Tower owners that own everything and control the world. This simply is not the case.

Also try to not forget that in most states Taxes make up for a large portion of the price. In California its about half the price goes to taxes.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by jdrumstik

I'm going to get killed for this considering their aren't many mac users that take this aproach to these; However,

People will pay for the higher prices. But also it has to do with a supply and demand issue; people continually demadn more oil (since no one wants to drive a low consuming compact). Unless the oil companies are Coluding, then its simply an issue of supply and demand. However, these oil companies are also dealing with a lot of risk. Think about it, with emerging technologies coming out(Bio Deisel, extermlye efficeint non hybrid cars, and possibilities of Hydrogen), and the fact that they are not self relient on their oil supplys, and everyone hates them whihc brings out a strong chance of government interference withe their operations. they deserve to have high earnings cause they are in an industry that has a high risk of a dangerous future.

Also remember an oil company is typically publically traded. What does that mean? That means their isn't one rich fat cat who recieves the billions in profits it goes out to little suzie whos grandparents bought her a mutual fund for college, or Blue Collar Joe who has a modest portfolio that he setup at wells fargo to help him prepare for his future. The Fat Cat Ivory Tower owners that own everything and control the world. This simply is not the case.

Also try to not forget that in most states Taxes make up for a large portion of the price. In California its about half the price goes to taxes.

Half the price? Unless gas is back down to $1/gal (or taxes have *dramatically* increased over the past 4 years, which is highly unlikely), that's not true at all.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/st...tate_2002.html

[GSixZero]

Nope. It's about time us in America realize how much gas really costs.

[schamae]

most people have no conception of the dramatic increase in oil that places like china and india are using. welcome to the world of increasing demand and level supply. Pretty soon it will be the world of increasing demand and DEcreasing supply, and thats when the fun begins.

[Big Mac]

Originally Posted by GSixZero

Nope. It's about time us in America realize how much gas really costs.

Uh, Americans know how much gas costs. Gas costs as much as the market currently dictates, plus an extra amount of cents due to state and federal taxation.

Gas will return to under a $2.00 a gallon when we see either a far more tranquil geopolitical scene or a significant recession.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

If the Hummer 2 was still in production I would consider buying one. (j/k).

Actually, it's the H1 which has been discontinued. Which is lame, since it was a unique vehicle and all they've now got in the line-up is a bunch of crappy, incapable SUVs.

In relation to this thread topic, the H1 is actually more fuel efficient than the H2 - nearly double the mpg.

[whgoodman]

Originally Posted by tutelary

most people have no conception of the dramatic increase in oil that places like china and india are using. welcome to the world of increasing demand and level supply. Pretty soon it will be the world of increasing demand and DEcreasing supply, and thats when the fun begins.

This is true, but it's also true that the governments of China and some other pacific rim countries [see links below] are subsidizing the cost down to about $45/barrel from the current price around $70/barrel. It’s a lot easier to undercut the cost of goods produced and grow at a staggering rate when your energy costs are artificially 1/2 to 2/3 the cost that the rest of the producing world is paying.

http://english.people.com.cn/200508/...16_202824.html
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/china/2...ent_552527.htm

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Actually, it's the H1 which has been discontinued. Which is lame, since it was a unique vehicle and all they've now got in the line-up is a bunch of crappy, incapable SUVs.

In relation to this thread topic, the H1 is actually more fuel efficient than the H2 - nearly double the mpg.

The H1 was a diesel, right? That could explain it. The cheapest gas in America right now is in a little town called Osceola, Iowa, at their local riverboat casino. They just opened up a gas station and they're selling for just over $2 a gallon, maybe $2.20 or so. And anyone working there gets another $.05 off per gallon.

[Dakar]

Probably not. In March the gas stations taunted me by dropping incredibly fast to the $2.30-.40 range. Since then they've bounced all the way back up $2.80 then slowly meandered down to $2.60. They now have seem to have settled in around $2.75 which is probably going to be the summer average, at least until August.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Big Mac

Uh, Americans know how much gas costs. Gas costs as much as the market currently dictates, plus an extra amount of cents due to state and federal taxation.

Gas will return to under a $2.00 a gallon when we see either a far more tranquil geopolitical scene or a significant recession.

Um, but if there is a significant recession how will you be able to afford the gas anyway?

There is also the persistant problem with Iran... rebels in Nigeria. Trouble in Venezuela
and the big one, China - The country that is adding 1000 cars to their roads a day, every day.

Besides, what you americans complaining about anyway? You guys still have some of the cheapest gas prices in the world.

[Dork.]

Gas will never get back below $2/gal, and that's a good thing. When crude oil was at $20-$30 a barrel, there was no incentive to use alternative fuels because they cost more to make the equivalent of a barrel of oil than the oil would have cost in the first place.

With oil at $60-$70 and higher, now those alternative sources are starting to look better and more profitable. There's a technique (don't have the link, it was on /. a few weeks ago) that makes biodiesel from pig dung, and the collective output of all of the pigs in the U.S. could replace our imported crude oil! It's almost lunchtime, is it time for a ham sandwich?

[jsousa]

Originally Posted by jokell82

Half the price? Unless gas is back down to $1/gal (or taxes have *dramatically* increased over the past 4 years, which is highly unlikely), that's not true at all.
http://www.energy.ca.gov/gasoline/st...tate_2002.html

First of all that was 4 years ago. Thats old data. Secondly, it doesn't include sales tax (Done by the county, 7.75% in Orange County Last i checked; I think its 8.25% in LA).

And how much was gas in 2002? I'd say around $2; so it seems that my statements are very far off.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by jdrumstik

First of all that was 4 years ago. Thats old data. Secondly, it doesn't include sales tax (Done by the county, 7.75% in Orange County Last i checked; I think its 8.25% in LA).

And how much was gas in 2002? I'd say around $2; so it seems that my statements are very far off.

I said in my reply that it was 4 years old, but taxes don't just quadruple every 4 years. I know in VA the tax is VERY close to those figures, I believe at $.39/gal.

Regardless, nowhere in the US does the tax on gas approach half the cost of gas itself...

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

You can say that my area is not the cheapest place in the US, yet the last time I filled up my gas tank I paid US$2.61 per gallon. It is pretty unbelievable. It hasn't been this cheap in a LOOONG time.

I know it is affecting my life. For example, I can eat in restarants more often and movies and stuff again. Moreover, my county is thinking about having a gas tax holiday (10 cents) through the next three months. If the Hummer 2 was still in production I would consider buying one. (j/k).

Has it affected your life?

I have a car with good gas mileage, and I have money in oil and gas stocks. The lower oil and gas prices has meant I have lost some money compared to autumn last year, because the money I lose on the stocks far outweigh the money I save on gas. However, I'm still much ahead of the game compared to where I was a year ago.

BTW, I have a little bit invested in wind power as well. High oil prices make wind power actually more feasible in terms of comparative costs.

Here's hoping for higher oil prices.

[chris v]

Look for $100.00 + per barrel oil, once we invade Iran. Even if we don't invade, and jut make punitive missile strikes, they'll f**k up the Straits of Hormuz like nobody's business, then it's down to Russia and Venezuela, or two best trading partners *ahem.*

Even if Iran suddenly sees the light and hires Wal-Mart to run its oil ministry, we'll still see a gradual increase as time wears on. The easily-gotten oil has all been gotten, and extraction from oil shales and such will be pricer, even if the supply is somewhat plentiful.

[powerbook867]

I'm in training this week in California and gas here is about 3.15 to 3.20 a gallon for unleaded! I think the days of cheap gas are probably gone forever.

Like Chris V stated, we invade Iran all bets are off. It'll hit 100 and we'll all be walking/bussing/tele-commuitng...

[xi_hyperon]

No. The days of cheap oil are gone. Aside from Middle East instability, it's a fact that demand is growing globally. People who drive large vehicles are going to have to suck it up and accept this (some are, apparently. Truck sales are down this quarter, and smaller car sales are up).

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by powerbook867

I'm in training this week in California and gas here is about 3.15 to 3.20 a gallon for unleaded! I think the days of cheap gas are probably gone forever.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

No. The days of cheap oil are gone. People who drive large vehicles are going to have to suck it up and accept this (some are, apparently. Truck sales are down this quarter, and smaller car sales are up).

You guys are getting it badly wrong. Note how Powerbook goes on about the high prices in CA. What does CA have a lot of? Prius-driving eco-weenies.

It's like this... Let's say I run a gas station:

At present I need $10,000 per week to break even (pay self, pay staff, pay overheads) and get this by selling 10,000 gallons of gas.

If you all go out and buy more fuel efficient vehicles and thus only buy 5,000 gallons per week off me, then in order to still break even I'm going to have to double the price of the gas. My overheads don't go down simply because you've gone out and bought a Prius.

Now, extend that all the way up through the oil industry.

[Eug Wanker]

Doofy, the problem with that argument is that gas consumption overall has increased in the last couple of years. That plus the fact that the biggest differences in gas prices have to do with local taxes more than anything else. It's not as if a Californian gas station is making 40¢ more per gallon than one in another state. The profit on the gas for both is low, with the bulk of the difference in price going to the government.

Anyways, the gas stations that really make money are the ones with garages or convenience stores.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You guys are getting it badly wrong. Note how Powerbook goes on about the high prices in CA. What does CA have a lot of? Prius-driving eco-weenies.

It's like this... Let's say I run a gas station:

At present I need $10,000 per week to break even (pay self, pay staff, pay overheads) and get this by selling 10,000 gallons of gas.

If you all go out and buy more fuel efficient vehicles and thus only buy 5,000 gallons per week off me, then in order to still break even I'm going to have to double the price of the gas. My overheads don't go down simply because you've gone out and bought a Prius.

Now, extend that all the way up through the oil industry.

I don't know wtf you're talking about, but here's the news. When demand is up, prices go up. The reverse is also true. This equation affects the price of oil, as well as just about any other product in a free market society. I'd suggest refer you to Google to survey past pricing patterns in relation to demand of oil, but this would seem a bit obvious.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Doofy

Now, extend that all the way up through the oil industry.

While the gas station owner can do nothing but to raise her profit margin, the oil industry can decide to counter-attack low demand with low prices, resulting in more trucks and SUVs being bought. Or else, keep raising gas prices until every John Doe sends their SUV to the junkyard.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by xi_hyperon

I don't know wtf you're talking about, but here's the news. When demand is up, prices go up. The reverse is also true. This equation affects the price of oil, as well as just about any other product in a free market society.

This would be true if oil were operating in a free-market economy. It's not. It's operating in a cartel economy. And since you can't simply stop buying oil if you don't like the price, it doesn't follow standard supply/demand rules.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Doofy

This would be true if oil were operating in a free-market economy. It's not. It's operating in a cartel economy. And since you can't simply stop buying oil if you don't like the price, it doesn't follow standard supply/demand rules.

Buying a car with half the LITERS-PER-100KM is a way to stop buying oil.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Doofy

This would be true if oil were operating in a free-market economy. It's not. It's operating in a cartel economy. And since you can't simply stop buying oil if you don't like the price, it doesn't follow standard supply/demand rules.

No you can't, but you can adjust your usage. While there does seem to be a shift in car buying practices, the bottom line is that shift has been very slow. Despite rising gas prices, people still like their gas guzzlers.

Here is the Canadian experience in the past couple of years (and gas prices in Canada are much higher than they are in the US):

Soaring gas prices leave drivers undeterred

Although prices have surged more than 40 per cent in the last three years, few Canadians have cut down on their consumption, the survey shows. Two-in-ten households, 21 per cent, say they have cut down on the amount of gas they use while 43 per cent say that have increased their gas intake since 2004.

The greatest increase in consumption was reported among Canadians with annual household income below $30,000, the survey found.

”These findings indicate that despite concerns about an energy shortage, Canadians historically have not demonstrated a commitment to change in behaviour when it comes to using gasoline,” said Tim Moro, a senior vice-president at Ipsos Reid.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

While the gas station owner can do nothing but to raise her profit margin, the oil industry can decide to counter-attack low demand with low prices

You appear to be suggesting that the rest of the oil industry somehow doesn't have overheads.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Doofy

This would be true if oil were operating in a free-market economy. It's not. It's operating in a cartel economy. And since you can't simply stop buying oil if you don't like the price, it doesn't follow standard supply/demand rules.

The cartel influences prices, but it is not, nor could it ever be wholly independent in terms of pricing. They are still subject to the influence of demand. Just like domestic oil companies. Suffice it to say, if one day we all suddenly stopped using oil, the price per barrel would NOT be where it is now. But, as you said, no one can simply stop. But, people can reduce the amount they use, and this would and DOES have the same supply/demand effect on pricing as with any other product we use.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Doofy

This would be true if oil were operating in a free-market economy. It's not. It's operating in a cartel economy. And since you can't simply stop buying oil if you don't like the price, it doesn't follow standard supply/demand rules.

Oil might have been operating in a cartel-type economy in the 70's, but today's market has more players in it with diverse goals. For instance, if we invade Iran, oil would definitely shoot up as Iranian production shuts down for a while, but there is enough excess capacity outside the ME to make up for it, so we'll avoid a shortage. Middle-East countries in OPEC no longer have the collective power to stop this type of thing than they used to have. We may be verbal sparring partners with countries like Venezuela and Russia sometimes, but if they can sell oil at $100/barrel, and sell more of it because they'd use their excess capacity to provide oil that Iran would have, they'd jump at the chance, no matter what they think of our policies right now.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You appear to be suggesting that the rest of the oil industry somehow doesn't have overheads.

Of course they have overheads, but they control the pricing too. Remember that 2005 has been a record year profit-wise for North American oil companies.

For example, Exxon made 36 BILLION in profit last year, the most ever by any US company.

As long as demand is high, and increasing, there is no incentive for them to drop prices, even though their profit margin illustrates they could easily do it.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Soaring gas prices leave drivers undeterred

Although prices have surged more than 40 per cent in the last three years, few Canadians have cut down on their consumption, the survey shows. Two-in-ten households, 21 per cent, say they have cut down on the amount of gas they use while 43 per cent say that have increased their gas intake since 2004.

I'm not buying the results of that survey, since such a survey is likely to be framing the question in terms of "money spend on gas" rather than "actual gallons/litres put in tank". It may be different over there, but I don't know many people here who know what they put in their tanks in terms of quantity of actual product, rather than how many quid/dollars they spent.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You guys are getting it badly wrong. Note how Powerbook goes on about the high prices in CA. What does CA have a lot of? Prius-driving eco-weenies.

The majority of vehicles in California are SUVs and pickups. Gas is more expensive in California because we have stricter emission laws.

[Doofy]

Since I now have five of you going at me and it feels like yet again I'm swimming upstream, I'll stop here.

Continue to believe what you wish to believe.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm not buying the results of that survey, since such a survey is likely to be framing the question in terms of "money spend on gas" rather than "actual gallons/litres put in tank". It may be different over there, but I don't know many people here who know what they put in their tanks in terms of quantity of actual product, rather than how many quid/dollars they spent.

You may not buy that survey, but the truth is that worldwide demand for oil is increasing, and US demand for oil is increasing too, despite higher prices.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

For example, Exxon made 36 BILLION in profit last year, the most ever by any US company.

That was after Raymond's $400 million severence package, the largest by any US company.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by chris v

Look for $100.00 + per barrel oil, once we invade Iran. Even if we don't invade, and jut make punitive missile strikes, they'll f**k up the Straits of Hormuz like nobody's business, then it's down to Russia and Venezuela, or two best trading partners *ahem.*

Even if Iran suddenly sees the light and hires Wal-Mart to run its oil ministry, we'll still see a gradual increase as time wears on. The easily-gotten oil has all been gotten, and extraction from oil shales and such will be pricer, even if the supply is somewhat plentiful.

The greatest supplier of oil to the US is actually Canada.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by besson3c

The greatest supplier of oil to the US is actually Canada.

I guess we know who's next on The List, eh?

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by besson3c

The greatest supplier of oil to the US is actually Canada.

Yeah, and Canada is completely self-sufficient in terms of oil supplies. Despite this Canadian gas prices are even higher than in the US. Many US citizens don't understand just how good they have it when it comes to gas prices.

Originally Posted by Dork.

I guess we know who's next on The List, eh?

Meh, you've already poisoned our minds enough with US cable TV. No need for a military invasion.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You appear to be suggesting that the rest of the oil industry somehow doesn't have overheads.

I am not denying the overheads, but you seem to be suggesting they don't have high earnings.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Meh, you've already poisoned our minds enough with US cable TV. No need for a military invasion.

Except you're forgetting Celine Dion. I'm suprised we haven't punished you for that yet.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Except you're forgetting Celine Dion. I'm suprised we haven't punished you for that yet.

We blame you actually. If it wasn't for the US, she would have never become so popular.

And remember, it was the US, not Canada, that built a dedicated concert hall just for her.

ie. You wanted her, and you got her.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

We blame you actually. If it wasn't for the US, she would have never become so popular.

And remember, it was the US, not Canada, that built a dedicated concert hall just for her.

ie. You wanted her, and you got her.

Maybe we need to invade Vegas then, and unload a can 'o Whoop-Ass on them?

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by Dork.

Maybe we need to invade Vegas then, and unload a can 'o Whoop-Ass on them?

Are whoop-ass cans the kind with the peel back tops, or ones that require a can opener?

[chris v]

Originally Posted by Doofy

You guys are getting it badly wrong. Note how Powerbook goes on about the high prices in CA. What does CA have a lot of? Prius-driving eco-weenies.

It's like this... Let's say I run a gas station:

At present I need $10,000 per week to break even (pay self, pay staff, pay overheads) and get this by selling 10,000 gallons of gas.

If you all go out and buy more fuel efficient vehicles and thus only buy 5,000 gallons per week off me, then in order to still break even I'm going to have to double the price of the gas. My overheads don't go down simply because you've gone out and bought a Prius.

Now, extend that all the way up through the oil industry.

If you'd actually talk to an actual gas retailer, and get some actual facts you'd find that margins on gas have been, and remain razor-thin. Most gas stations are actually convenience stores than bank on you buying some higher-margin sodas & sandwiches while you're there getting gas. The problem now is people have less disposable income, so the sales of higher margin items are way down, since the bag of chips is the first thing to get cut from the personal budget when you need more money to cover the higher cost of the gas.

So you've got retailers trying to survive on the 15% margin on gas instead of the 100% margin on Doritos, or Budwieser. They are not a happy bunch of people.

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Are whoop-ass cans the kind with the peel back tops, or ones that require a can opener?

Pull-back tops, of course!

[Dork.]

Originally Posted by chris v

So you've got retailers trying to survive on the 15% margin on gas instead of the 100% margin on Doritos, or Budwieser. They are not a happy bunch of people.

I'd be suprised if they can charge 15% margin right now, although 15% at $1/gal is the same income as 5% on $3/gal, assuming the same volume. If anything, they're probably squeezing their margins lower on a absolute dollar basis also, hoping to make it up in volume when people go price-hunting for gas that's 5 cents cheaper.

[xi_hyperon]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

We blame you actually. If it wasn't for the US, she would have never become so popular.

And remember, it was the US, not Canada, that built a dedicated concert hall just for her.

ie. You wanted her, and you got her.

No. You guys are the source of that particular WMD, and you failed to secure it properly.