[moonmonkey]

I am not sure if agree or disagree with the right for people to do this, but I want to see a video of the procedure (I remember seeing a video at school).

I know that this will make me sick, but I need to know how doctors do this.
Can someone please point me in the right direction.

EDIT: some people prefer to not know about things like this, which is why this thread is being ignored, but I deserve to know.

[Ghoser777]

Abortion of adults only...?

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Don't ask Superchicken or you will get the overly dramatic version.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Abortion of adults only...?

Not really what I meant.

[OreoCookie]

Some friends had some training dvds for medical students. Why don't you check out the library. I guess that it's not much better/worse than any surgery.

[TETENAL]

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../abortion.html

[olePigeon]

The technique depends on how early/late the abortion is taking place.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../abortion.html

That was upsetting, but it didn't show the real procedure.

Why is this so forbidden, it must be online somewhere?

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

That was upsetting, but it didn't show the real procedure.

Why is this so forbidden, it must be online somewhere?

I would give my opinion as to why it's so forbidden, but it would turn this thread into something that we've seen in every thread about abortion that exists in these forums. I've personally only seen the results of an abortion in pictures, not the procedure in video.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

That was upsetting, but it didn't show the real procedure.

What do you mean by "not the real procedure"? Are you saying it was staged or do you complain that you didn't get to see the vulva of the woman?

[production_coordinator]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

I would give my opinion as to why it's so forbidden, but it would turn this thread into something that we've seen in every thread about abortion that exists in these forums. I've personally only seen the results of an abortion in pictures, not the procedure in video.

I'm with you... I'm not adding my 2¢ to the abortion issue. It's been debated to death in this (and millions of other) forum(s).

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by production_coordinator

... It's been debated to death ...

How could it have died if it was never alive!?

jk, carry on.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Abortion of adults only...?

I have a friend who says he'd be an advocate of post-birth abortion if the kid turns out to be a brat, if only it were legal!

tooki

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

Abortion of adults only...?

Really late term abortion.

al-Zarqawi was just aborted in the 642nd trimester.

[baw]

Originally Posted by tooki

I have a friend who says he'd be an advocate of post-birth abortion if the kid turns out to be a brat, if only it were legal!

tooki

[ort888]

I heard that they coax the baby out with a piece of candy.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by ort888

I heard that they coax the baby out with a piece of candy.

That's kind of tasteless.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Really late term abortion.

al-Zarqawi was just aborted in the 642nd trimester.

[scaught]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

That's kind of tasteless.

wwwwwwwelcome to the macnn lounge!

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by ort888

I heard that they coax the baby out with a piece of candy.

Completely tasteless.

[zmcgill]

Originally Posted by scaught

wwwwwwwelcome to the macnn lounge!

People say that a lot, but most of the time, even though people argue and disagree endlessly, they tend to stay away from the dead baby jokes and stuff like that.

[Socially Awkward Solo]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

That's kind of tasteless.

Kinda? I think this is one of those subjects that shouldn't be joked about.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontl.../abortion.html

This is a really good documentary. Highly recommended.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by moonmonkey

That was upsetting, but it didn't show the real procedure.

Why is this so forbidden, it must be online somewhere?

If you want to see it: http://www.silentscream.org/

[Socially Awkward Solo]

abortions are gross, upsetting and bad no matter how you look at it.

But so is woman who give birth and toss the baby in the dumpster.

So most of the time it is the lesser of two evils.

[lpkmckenna]

I just finished watching "Barbara's abortion" on the documentary. I can't really describe how I feel. But her story was really painful stuff. I'm just at a loss for words (other than: I'd like to meet her boyfriend in a dark alley).

That was 23 years ago. I hope she's ok today.

[Ghoser777]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

abortions are gross, upsetting and bad no matter how you look at it.

But so is woman who give birth and toss the baby in the dumpster.

So most of the time it is the lesser of two evils.

At great risk of a huge flame war starting...

Note: the word "evil" will be used in the following paragraph very loosely. The whole concept about what is evil is not absolute. In no way am I referring to any person as being evil... although it can be debated whether said acts themselves are morally "evil".

I don't think its fair to bring the argument down to those two possibilities (and ignoring the argument that its possible to save the baby after its been tossed in the dumpster, which clearly is not possible with an abortion). Aren't there non-evil alternatives, such as adoption, or leaving a baby at the nearest fire station? I'm not sure I've ever been comfortable with moral arguments that take the "evil" act of an individual and solve it by having society provide an alternative "evil" act that said society is more "comfortable" with.

:braces for impact:

[Cody Dawg]

I was going to say something here, but I won't because it's such a highly personal issue. Instead I'll say something else.

I'm fundamentally against it and for adoption instead. So many families are waiting for babies - it's unbelievable.

But, I'm not walking in another person's shoes and some people really feel that they have no choices. The single mother who is struggling to survive is an example.

Plus, let me tell you something: Pregnancy is not always easy.

I'm pregnant now and I am going to the hospital every other day for fluid infusion because I am - literally - vomiting 15 to 20 times a day. I am so sick. I even have an esophageal rupture from vomiting so much. Physically I am having a hard time taking care of my two children that we have and my husband has someone here at the house helping and he has structured his work schedule around the home health nurse and the lady who is coming in to help cook and clean. It is very hard and if I were a single mother there is NO way I could take care of my other child or children. I honestly do not know what I would do. And that's only morning sickness - that doesn't include being pregnant for 40 weeks and giving birth and trying to take care of a newborn, keep my job and find someplace to put my newborn so that I can go back to work and earn a living, right after having given birth...along with taking care of the child or children that I already have.

So, although I am fundamentally against abortion there is a lot more to consider. I am 100% against any abortion after the first trimester, however. 3 months is enough time to understand what you want to do.

We saw an ultrasound of the baby yesterday and there it is, all tiny and in a little fetal position, on it's side, the little heart beating. It's truly a miracle.

I am thrilled to have a baby, but I have an incredible support system and I know that so many women do not. They have nothing...and sometimes no one.

[MindFad]

Of course, I'm aiming for seriousness and tact when I post in the monthly abortion threads, unlike many other posters (though this one seems mostly civil so far). That graphic also comes in shirt form—do your own internet searching to see where. These threads are like tickling abortions. We need a sticky thread already; it'll get to a few hundred pages in a month, everyone will get tired of it, and that will be that. Resurrect and stick as needed.

[euchomai]

You can google "malachi" and go to the pictures page. You will surely see it a few pics down, it is a fetus that operation rescue somehow got to and uses for postcards and posters. It is the result of an abortion. CAUTION, very graphic.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by TETENAL

What do you mean by "not the real procedure"? Are you saying it was staged or do you complain that you didn't get to see the vulva of the woman?

Yes, i'm sure it was real, but showing her face and how upset she was is hardly showing the procedure.... Seen it now though.

[Nicko]

Originally Posted by Ghoser777

At great risk of a huge flame war starting...

Note: the word "evil" will be used in the following paragraph very loosely. The whole concept about what is evil is not absolute. In no way am I referring to any person as being evil... although it can be debated whether said acts themselves are morally "evil".

I don't think its fair to bring the argument down to those two possibilities (and ignoring the argument that its possible to save the baby after its been tossed in the dumpster, which clearly is not possible with an abortion). Aren't there non-evil alternatives, such as adoption, or leaving a baby at the nearest fire station? I'm not sure I've ever been comfortable with moral arguments that take the "evil" act of an individual and solve it by having society provide an alternative "evil" act that said society is more "comfortable" with.

:braces for impact:

Ofcourse, some would argue that in a free and democratic society, the greater 'evil' is the person who thinks they have the right to make such a decision for a complete stranger.

IMO to use 'evil' with abortion immediately turns it into a flamefest. There is nothing evil about it. Its a procedure, nothing more. Then again, what is 'evil' to one society is perfectly normal to another, just as some countries are more democratic than others.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

abortions are gross, upsetting and bad no matter how you look at it.

But so is woman who give birth and toss the baby in the dumpster.

So most of the time it is the lesser of two evils.

I'm not stating this as an opinion on the abortion issue, but any woman can walk into any hospital, police station, or firehouse and leave her child with zero questions asked and no obligation, risk or anything else. We have these laws precisely for the purpose of preventing babies from ending up in dumpsters.

[wallinbl]

Originally Posted by Nicko

Ofcourse, some would argue that in a free and democratic society, the greater 'evil' is the person who thinks they have the right to make such a decision for a complete stranger.

You say that it's evil to make a decision for someone else, ignoring the fact that the aborted baby had a decision made for it. I know, unborn babies aren't real people because you can't see them. The kid across the street from me was born at 21 weeks, and is now 13 years old. It's legal to abort a 21 week pregnancy, so don't try the argument about the baby not being a human or not being viable or any of that crap.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

I'm not stating this as an opinion on the abortion issue, but any woman can walk into any hospital, police station, or firehouse and leave her child with zero questions asked and no obligation, risk or anything else. We have these laws precisely for the purpose of preventing babies from ending up in dumpsters.

Only in SOME jurisdictions. And she has to go through the entire 9 months of gestation before she can do that. What so many people do not take into account when discussing abortion is that those months can be absolute hell for some women in some situations. Not every pregnancy is planned or desired, and not every pregnant woman is at liberty to make her own decisions on anything.

Me? I am but an egg-but I do know that I'm not at all wise enough to decide other people's lives for them.

[ebuddy]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I was going to say something here, but I won't because it's such a highly personal issue. Instead I'll say something else.

I'm fundamentally against it and for adoption instead. So many families are waiting for babies - it's unbelievable.

I agree with this. I reject the notion that we're choosing between abortion and dumpsters and saying abortion is the "lesser of two evils most of the time." I'm not sure exactly where this type of reasoning comes into play.

But, I'm not walking in another person's shoes and some people really feel that they have no choices. The single mother who is struggling to survive is an example.

I agree with this also, but might add "again and again." To me, the argument fails for abortion when we consider the rate of repeat abortions. Oops is one thing. Oops, then oops again is simply wreckless. Oops then oops and oops again is just vile.

Plus, let me tell you something: Pregnancy is not always easy.

I'd be convinced that absolutely none of them are easy.

I'm pregnant now and I am going to the hospital every other day for fluid infusion because I am - literally - vomiting 15 to 20 times a day. I am so sick. I even have an esophageal rupture from vomiting so much.

I'm sorry to hear your pregnancy is particularly this difficult. This must be frustrating and I'm sure you're anxious to be done with it. I hope it goes downhill for you from here.

Physically I am having a hard time taking care of my two children that we have and my husband has someone here at the house helping and he has structured his work schedule around the home health nurse and the lady who is coming in to help cook and clean. It is very hard and if I were a single mother there is NO way I could take care of my other child or children. I honestly do not know what I would do.

There are a great many who when faced with adversity snap to it and make it happen. It's not ideal, but you certainly do have a wealth of resources on hand most do not and it happens successfully every day of the week. The men that bail on these situations are reprehensible IMO.

And that's only morning sickness - that doesn't include being pregnant for 40 weeks and giving birth and trying to take care of a newborn, keep my job and find someplace to put my newborn so that I can go back to work and earn a living, right after having given birth...along with taking care of the child or children that I already have.

Pardon me for bringing this up Cody, if you don't want to respond I'll understand.

..."keep my job and find someplace to put my newborn so that I can go back to work and earn a living, right after having given birth...along with taking care of the child or children that I already have.

So, as soon as the baby is born it's off to daycare for someone else to raise while you go back to work? Given the resources you claim to have above, it seems you're already earning a living right? I mean are you really hurtin' for cash this badly? There are a great many who would reconsider having a puppy out of concern that they won't be home enough to properly care for and enjoy the puppy. Why on earth are you having another child?

So, although I am fundamentally against abortion there is a lot more to consider. I am 100% against any abortion after the first trimester, however. 3 months is enough time to understand what you want to do.

I'd be happy with simply eliminating the repeat abortion. There are too many societal ills propogated from a lack of simple forethought and careful consideration.

I am thrilled to have a baby, but I have an incredible support system and I know that so many women do not. They have nothing...and sometimes no one.

My wife and I only had one another and a little governmental help financially. That was enough for us.

[production_coordinator]

Nice to see we've gone "down that road."

[Skywalkers new Hand]

Originally Posted by wallinbl

I'm not stating this as an opinion on the abortion issue, but any woman can walk into any hospital, police station, or firehouse and leave her child with zero questions asked and no obligation, risk or anything else. We have these laws precisely for the purpose of preventing babies from ending up in dumpsters.

Then why do they still end up in dumpsters?

[pooka]

Man... I dunno. Always a touchy subject, eh? All I know is that I would have a tough time telling a 14 year old who's been raped that everything is going to be alright... in 9 months.

What if we could transplant baby clumps from a woman into an artificial womb of sorts? Or better yet, we could transplant unwanted fetuses (feti?) into willing mothers. Or men even. Hell, it could turn into a profitable service. Some people seem to really like babies.

[Cody Dawg]

ebuddy:

When I made the comment about "finding a place for my newborn to be taken care of so that I can go back to work" I was speaking rhetorically.

I, personally, am not going back to work. I am a stay-at-home mother who happens to be blessed with the ability to do freelance work from home.

However, I was referring to the situation in which a single mom, say she works at Wal-mart and has a child or two, HAS to go back to work, you see?

The truth is that if I were in this shape and having to support myself as a single mother with limited resources I don't know what in the heck I would do. Last night, all night, I sat in the bathtub in tepid water and tried to drink fluids and vomited over and over again. I am still sick this morning. My gallbladder hurts badly and my head aches and I'm still nauseous. My throat hurts like heck from throwing up, and honestly, if the payoff wasn't that precious baby at the end I don't know what I'd do. I've been like this for four weeks now - and have lost about 25 pounds.

I was a single mother for a while (before I remarried) and the only way I could adequately care for my son was to have a college student, a young woman, move in with me. I gave her room and board and paid her a small salary so that one of us was always with him. I took a position with a newspaper that allowed me to work from home 50% of the time. It worked out well.

I've never put my children into daycare. For instance, the $600 to $800 I would have spent putting my son into daycare instead went to pay the college student a salary and I also gave her room and board and everyone was happy, most of all my son, who never had to be with strangers.

Fortunately, my ex husband really cared a great deal about both of us (to this day in fact) and always helped us.

Now I've remarried and I'm very fortunate because my ex and my current husband both like each other a lot, they respect each other, and everyone is on the same page. My spouse now is extremely involved in the children's lives, which is one of the reasons I married him. He really loves having a family and children.

All I'm saying is that I only know that being pregnant for some people is damned hard. Hard physically, financially, and emotionally. I just cannot imagine being as sick as I am and all alone - maybe even with another life such as a child's - and fending for myself.

Believe me, there are a LOT of men who abandon the mothers of their children and leave those women to fend for themselves.

to the single mothers of the world. They are underappreciated.

[lpkmckenna]

Good luck with your pregnancy, Cody.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

Don't ask Superchicken or you will get the overly dramatic version.

overly dramatic? naw, just not the watered down version.

[greenamp]

Originally Posted by Socially Awkward Solo

abortions are gross, upsetting and bad no matter how you look at it.

But so is woman who give birth and toss the baby in the dumpster.

So most of the time it is the lesser of two evils.

I was tossed in a dumpster and I turned out just fine buddy.

[Cody Dawg]

Were you really?

If so, to you.

So was Faith Hill, the country western singer. She was adopted after the fact. Just look at HER.