[tooki]

Smoke and mirrors? YOU BROUGHT UP HAMBURGER HELPER!!

Sorry, but 1. I'm not gonna be told how hamburgers (sandwiches) -- an American dish -- are made by someone from Hong Kong, 2. not all information exists online. My cookbooks are all in print, not electronic form. 3. I'm experienced enough a cook to know what a traditional burger is: the no-binders thing comes not from some source saying "they never contain binders" but rather from having heard, read and seen enough dozens of sources to know what they never contain, as well as knowing other dishes, so I can tell you what you are making.

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Person Man

Velveeta? NATURAL?

That's what amazed me when I looked at the ingredients -- it really doesn't contain anything weird! It's highly processed, but out of normal stuff. The same cannot be said for store-brand velveetas, which contain artificial ingredients.

tooki

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by tooki

That's what amazed me when I looked at the ingredients -- it really doesn't contain anything weird! It's highly processed, but out of normal stuff. The same cannot be said for store-brand velveetas, which contain artificial ingredients.

tooki

I know. I was just being silly.

[mindwaves]

I had what was called a "Luna burger" by some acquaintances of mine. I think it was 2 hamburger patties put together with a slice of pineapple and cheese in between with some seasonings of course. It was ok IMO, but I like a plain burger best.

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by tooki

Smoke and mirrors? YOU BROUGHT UP HAMBURGER HELPER!!

Sorry, but 1. I'm not gonna be told how hamburgers (sandwiches) -- an American dish -- are made by someone from Hong Kong, 2. not all information exists online. My cookbooks are all in print, not electronic form. 3. I'm experienced enough a cook to know what a traditional burger is: the no-binders thing comes not from some source saying "they never contain binders" but rather from having heard, read and seen enough dozens of sources to know what they never contain, as well as knowing other dishes, so I can tell you what you are making.

tooki

?? Im not from Hong Kong, I just live here.

I have plenty of cookbooks which show hamburgers using binders such as egg.
but you on the other hand are saying that they categorically CAN NOT INCLUDE EGG.

Please read this Wikipedia article which will backs up my claim that a hamburger can include egg. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamburger

Section I am referring too is quoted below
"Ingredients of the meat of the hamburger

In most countries, a commercial hamburger usually contains no ham or other pork product. It is made primarily of ground beef, although it may also contain spices and other ingredients. (In the 1930's ground liver was sometimes added to the mixture). This is also known as a beef hamburger or a "beefburger." A beef hamburger that contains no other ingredients besides the beef itself is often referred to as an "all beef hamburger" or "all beef patties." Some prepare their patties with egg, bread crumbs, onions or onion soup mix, Worcestershire sauce, parsley or other ingredients."

More links saying egg is a valid ingredient in hamburgers (just in case you thought I edited wikipedia)
http://www.answers.com/topic/hamburger
http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Hamburger

So you see I am correct and you are wrong, I know Wikipedia is not the fountain of all knowledge, but I trust it more that some books you claim to own but obviously can't produce.

Please admit it and I can go back to my normal life, this is very draining.

[tooki]

Answers.com and reference.com just show Wikipedia content. In other words, you provided three links to the same source.

Here's a link to a "hamburgers" search in epicurious.com's recipe collection, which comprises decades of recipes from leading gourmet magazines. Take a look at those burger recipes. (Here's the cheeseburgers link.) On recipesource.com, a similar search turned up just one recipe (for filled burgers, hardly traditional anyway) containing egg, the rest all without.

I still maintain that a traditional, authentic burger contains only beef and minimal seasoning in the patty.

tooki

[Stradlater]

Moonmonkey, just because they call Miller Lite "beer" doesn't mean it's "right."

Also, all three links you gave provide the same content. (Tooki beat me to it.)

[jebjeb]

I make it easier by just calling them "burgers". One can have chicken burger, lamb burgers, and burger burgers (otherwise known as beef burger).

My burger recipe is good lean beef (generally organic), some ketchup, pepper, chilli, onion, bread crumbs or wet no-crust bread, and egg. Plus I normally add whatever else I feel like but this is the general base. Mix it all up and slap it on the barbie. Have it with salad, avocado and bacon. Mmmmmm. Many a time I have gotten home from work and my wife has practically humped my leg asking for some special burgers.

I can see where some of the burger purists are coming from by trying to keep it simple. However, if I want some simple meat, I will cook a nice steak. I am not a huge fan of the taste of much of the beef that is available here in the UK (unless you find a good local butcher) so that is why I add a bit extra to a burger.

I agree with those saying that if it is cooked like a burger, looks like a burger etc etc, then it must be a burger. If we can't call it a burger, I ask that everyone must observe my biggest colloquialism hate and stop using the term "massive" for anything physically large! Cease and desist!

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by jebjeb

I agree with those saying that if it is cooked like a burger, looks like a burger etc etc, then it must be a burger. If we can't call it a burger, I ask that everyone must observe my biggest colloquialism hate and stop using the term "massive" for anything physically large! Cease and desist!

massive |ˈmasiv| adjective 1 large and heavy or solid

[medicineman]

I rarely grill burgers. Try salmon steak brushed with a reduced mixture of maple syrup (pancake syrup) and soy sauce. Cooks in just a very few minutes. Marinate most cuts of meat with an oil and an acid, olive oil and vinegar. Add whatever spice you like, then grill. Chicken wings marinated with soy then sprinkled with sesame seeds grill nicely.

[voodoo]

Ground beef + egg can just as well be hamburgers. This is based on the concept that hamburger does not equal what many Americans think of - i.e. ground beef, but the end product. A meat-like substance, grilled, put on a bun made of bread and the toppings of your choice in between.

The world is bigger than the US and UK where a 'hamburger' can sometimes mean just a bunless, ligthly seasoned, grilled patty of ground meat.

Everywhere else, the word hamburger or the local equivalent (hamburguesa etc.) refers to something akin to this (and nothing else):



V

[Cody Dawg]

Who the heck wants a hamburger with eggs in it?



That's a good way to get salmonella poisoning if you eat a burger any other way than well done and I like mine medium rare.



Secondly, Hamburger Helper is disgusting crap.

(Where's the vomit Smilie?)

Eat seasoned hamburger or eat pasta or eat both...but do it SEPARATELY.

Hamburger Helper in a hamburger?



</runs screaming away>

[Cody Dawg]

Reminds me of a story.

Once I went to a friend's house and they were making hamburgers.

She was adding bread crumbs and eggs to the mix.

I said, "Do you mind if I make a couple of own burgers for the kids? I like them a little thinner for them."

"Sure," she said. "In fact, you make the little kids burgers for me."

I took a big scoop of the meat and made patties and my husband put them on the grill.

When finished we had a big platter of somewhat smaller burgers for the kids and a big platter of larger burgers for the adults. They were both put on the table.

Guess what?

The burgers that we made for the kids got all kinds of compliments. "This is awesome!" They had no idea WHY those burgers were better, but they were. At the end of the meal there were a lot of "adult" burgers left over and all of the mini burgers were gone.

True burger aficionados like unadulterated beef.

[IceEnclosure]

Denny's Beer Barrel Pub in Clearfield, Pennsylvania has just unveiled the world's biggest burger, the 15 pound Beer Barrel Belly Buster. This massive burger only costs $30 and it can feed a family of 10. Forget the Whopper, this is the real Burger King!

Beer Barrel Belly Buster Stats:
10.5 Pounds of Ground Beef
25 Slices of Cheese
1 Head of Lettuce
3 Tomatoes
2 Onions
1.5 Cups(ea) mayo, relish, ketchup, mustard & banana peppers
1 Giant Bun



apparently, they also have this now:

DENNY'S HAS DONE IT AGAIN!!!!!!!
Introducing the 50 lb plus BEER BARREL BELLY BRUISER!
The worlds largest commercial, on the menu (24 hour advance notice) Hamburger!

[tooki]

Originally Posted by voodoo

Ground beef + egg can just as well be hamburgers. This is based on the concept that hamburger does not equal what many Americans think of - i.e. ground beef, but the end product. A meat-like substance, grilled, put on a bun made of bread and the toppings of your choice in between.

The world is bigger than the US and UK where a 'hamburger' can sometimes mean just a bunless, ligthly seasoned, grilled patty of ground meat.

Everywhere else, the word hamburger or the local equivalent (hamburguesa etc.) refers to something akin to this (and nothing else):



V

Umm, "a hamburger" certainly does not mean a bunless hamburger patty in USA. "A hamburger" (with the "a") is a sandwich with a ground beef patty in the middle. "Hamburger" (without the "a") is a comparatively rare synonym for "ground beef".

tooki

[IceEnclosure]

omg..

http://www.dennysbeerbarrelpub.com/burgercreation.htm

[Leftoverchinese]

A little known but awesome secret for making the best burger you have ever tasted is a spice called Beau Monde. Try it out. I'm certain you'll like it.

[residentEvil]

Originally Posted by tooki

Umm, "a hamburger" certainly does not mean a bunless hamburger patty in USA. "A hamburger" (with the "a") is a sandwich with a ground beef patty in the middle. "Hamburger" (without the "a") is a comparatively rare synonym for "ground beef".

tooki

i would say it is more than just a 'rare synonym'. not saying it is correct, but often grocery stores in the midwest (my living/shopping experiences) have it as: ground burger or hamburger for the cheapest of their fresh ground beef.

[tooki]

Really? Around here, mostly just older people say it.

That said, I did say comparatively rare, to imply that it's simply much less common than "ground beef".

tooki

[porieux]

...

[SVass]

Graham Kerr suggests a pat of butter in the center of the thick slab of ground beef will improve the flavor. sam

[Person Man]

Originally Posted by IceEnclosure

...This massive burger only costs $30 and it can feed a family of 10...

The beef patty is 10.5 lbs. Divided equally among a family of ten is ~1 lb of beef per person. I'd say more like a family of 20-30, with each person getting 1/2 to 1/3 lb of beef, which is about the size of a "normal" hamburger at most fast food joints.

[porieux]

...

[tooki]

Originally Posted by porieux

Wow, you must be buying some really low quality filets

Granted $20+ a pound is a lot to pay, but if you can't afford it don't buy filets in the first place.

I don't buy filet mignon, because I prefer heartier cuts of beef that have more flavor. It's well known to any chef that filet has a milder flavor than other cuts like the loin (e.g. NY Strip or entrecôte).

tooki

[Cody Dawg]

How about a $100 burger? It's right here near where we live just down I-95.

They actually have the meat and ingredients delivered by armored car.

BOCA RATON, Fla. — A hundred bucks might buy you more than six dozen burgers from McDonald's, but the swanky Old Homestead Steakhouse will sell you one brawny beef sandwich for the same price.

Boca Raton Mayor Steven Abrams could barely speak between bites as he devoured the 20-ounce, $100 hamburger billed as the "beluga caviar of sandwiches."

"Heaven on a bun," restaurant owner Marc Sherry said.

The burger debuted Tuesday at the restaurant in the Boca Raton Resort and Club, where a membership costs $40,000 and an additional $3,600 a year.

"We've never had a hamburger on our menu here so we really wanted to go to the extreme," Sherry said, calling it "the most decadent burger in the world."

At about 5 1/2 inches across and 2 1/2 inches thick, the mound of meat is comprised of beef from three continents — American prime beef, Japanese Kobe and Argentine cattle.

The bill for one burger, with garnishing that includes organic greens, exotic mushrooms and tomatoes, comes out to $124.50 with tax and an 18 percent tip included. The restaurant will donate $10 from each sale to the Make-A-Wish Foundation.

Link

Picture here

[tooki]

Originally Posted by porieux

Highly processed makes natural ingredients unnatural....

In that case, any cheese is unnatural, since it's highly processed.

The same for sugar, flour, or many other food staples.

tooki

[porieux]

...

[Cody Dawg]

Filet mignon is tasteless. Tender, but tasteless.

Sirloin is a lot tastier. It's my favorite cut I think.

Ground sirloin mixed with a little ground round seems to make the best burgers in my estimation because the sirloin is tasty while the ground round gives it a little fat content.

[porieux]

...

[voodoo]

Originally Posted by tooki

Umm, "a hamburger" certainly does not mean a bunless hamburger patty in USA. "A hamburger" (with the "a") is a sandwich with a ground beef patty in the middle. "Hamburger" (without the "a") is a comparatively rare synonym for "ground beef".

tooki

I have had that horrible experience in a diner in Scotland. I got two grilled patties of ground meat and fries drowned in vinegar.



V

[Cody Dawg]

What? No haggis burger?



Shocking!

Just kidding.

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by porieux

LOL! You people haven't had good steak!
It's probably not even available where you live, I suppose.

I guess a lot of people burn out their taste buds on excessive salt and sugar, I'm sure that's a factor too.

Have 'em all the time in the comfort of my own home.

Good 1.5"+ thick N.Y. Strip (sometimes splurge even more on dry-aged, but almost doubling the cost is usually not worth it when the improvements in flavor and texture most certainly aren't doubled), kosher salt and freshly ground pepper (added within seconds of putting them on the cooking surface), very hot cooking surface (usually a well seasoned cast iron skillet, sometimes a cast iron grill pan, sometimes a grill), and about 3 minutes a side.

Everyone knows that filet mignon, while tender, is not the most flavorful cut by far. Own up to that, at least.

[Cody Dawg]

You know, how much of a difference IS there between dry-aged and non dry-aged?

Seriously?

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by porieux

LOL! You people haven't had good steak!
It's probably not even available where you live, I suppose.

I guess a lot of people burn out their taste buds on excessive salt and sugar, I'm sure that's a factor too.

You lose!

Again, EXTREMELY well known amongst laymen AND Dope-Ass Chefs( I hang with them every day) that a filet mignon is comparatively flavorless next to a good New York Strip or such.

Fat is flavor.

petit filet wrapped with bacon? hell yea! I'll take three!

[Stradlater]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You know, how much of a difference IS there between dry-aged and non dry-aged?

Seriously?

A bit, but certainly not worth the markup most of the time. In my experience, the texture improves (it's easier to cut, chew, and it dissolves and opens up more in your mouth) and the flavor improves (slightly more complex).

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You know, how much of a difference IS there between dry-aged and non dry-aged?

Seriously?

dry aging provides superior flavor and super-duper tenderness.


I recently tried getting a job here, no dice:

Council Oak at Hollywood Hard Rock

onsite butcher shop, IN the freakin' casino.

here's the menu:
Council Oak menu(pdf)

[porieux]

...

[porieux]

...

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Who the heck wants a hamburger with eggs in it?

It has a little bit of beaten egg to bind the burger together, you can't taste it!

[tooki]

Originally Posted by porieux

LOL! You people haven't had good steak!
It's probably not even available where you live, I suppose.

I guess a lot of people burn out their taste buds on excessive salt and sugar, I'm sure that's a factor too.

Yeah, whatever.

I buy my steaks from a butcher who carries nearly exclusively aged prime beef. Trust me, I know what good steak is, and as EVERYONE but you agrees, filet is one of the milder-tasting cuts of beef steak. Nobody's saying that it has no taste, only that -- all else held equal -- other cuts, like strip, have more beef flavor. That's no myth, and you can ask any butcher or chef and he'll confirm it.

Wrapping in bacon, though not something I care for myself, is a common way of improving a mediocre steak. I certainly wouldn't do it to a really good one. Just salt and black pepper for that!

tooki

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

You know, how much of a difference IS there between dry-aged and non dry-aged?

Seriously?

Aging (generically) has the effect of slightly improving flavor, but mostly of allowing connective tissue to loosen up, making the meat more tender.

Dry aging specifically has the additional effect of reducing the total moisture content of the meat (by about 10%, IIRC), thus concentrating the flavor. On top of this, beef can be dry-aged longer than it can wet-aged, giving improved tenderness.

Nonetheless, wet-aged beef is a vast improvement over unaged beef, so if you can't find (or can't afford) dry-aged, it's a fantastic compromise.

Alternatively, it is possible to dry-age your own beef in the fridge. Alton Brown did a show on that.

tooki