[Cody Dawg]

Can any of you make a good argument for getting satellite television subscription over cable?

Right now we have Adelphia and DirectTV is offering us a great deal on high-def satellite with DV-R that is actually less than having a cable subscription.

Any ideas are very much appreciated - pros and cons of both - from those in the know.

Thanks!

[Dakar]

I'm assuming you'd get digital cable, so my main argument, lag, goes out the window.

[Cody Dawg]

No, actually, I'm scheduled for the DirectTV installation.

They are giving us DirectTV, with installation and satellite dish and DV-R, plus a second free receiver, for $34 a month on a 2-year contract and the first three months are free. It's through Bellsouth as part of a deal. We pay, right now, $102 a month for high speed DSL and unlimited local and long distance telephone calls with various features such as call waiting, etc. So for adding the DirectTV to the bill our combined internet/telephone/television deal will be $136. They are adding the DirectTV package for only $34 a month for 150 channels and it's also high-definition to match our high-def television.

Right now we're paying $55.10 a month for Adelphia for basic cable - 78 channels - and it's not high-def and nothing extra is included.

[Dakar]

I meant if you got cable at all.

[Y3a]

The only problem with cable is that it goes out durring heavy snow or rain, or when blocked by a thunderhead. Other than that....FINE!

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Y3a

The only problem with cable is that it goes out durring heavy snow or rain, or when blocked by a thunderhead. Other than that....FINE!

Don't you mean Satellite?

[osiris]

I hear there are less channels with Satellite.
With cable there over 1000 channels, plus an insanely fast pipeline to the internet. The bad thing with cable is that bandwidth is sometimes choked for the less than premium channels (fox, tbs, etc) - the video is often pixelated during panoramic shots or high motion. Premium channels are fine.

It's 133 a month for internet and 1000 channels (6 HBO 6 SHO 6 MAX, ENC + on demand for most channels)

[Cody Dawg]

Not here you don't get internet with 1000 channels and internet access. But, assuming that we did get that I'd still be forking over $69 a month for phone (minus DSL). So, I'd be paying almost $200 a month and I would get the DV-R for free either.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Not here you don't get internet with 1000 channels and internet access. But, assuming that we did get that I'd still be forking over $69 a month for phone (minus DSL). So, I'd be paying almost $200 a month and I would get the DV-R for free either.

Some providers (Vonage?) have telephone over cable - I've seen packages for $100 for all three services. The bad thing is if power goes out, so does your phone. (which is why I didn't get it)

[Cody Dawg]

Yeah, we need a telephone that is land-based because we receive a LOT of faxes.

[IceEnclosure]

Either way, they'll both do their best to rape you. I've had bad experiences with DTV and Comcast, but your DTV deal sounds pretty good. Myself, I prefer cable. I'm in a house with DTV right now, and we're using Bellsouth DSL, it's ass-slow compared to my old 6Mbit cable connection.

[Cody Dawg]

Why do you prefer cable?

[Monique]

In Canada, there are no difference really. At one point I would say 12 years ago, with satellite you could get channels like HBO... Now, unfortunatly you get the Canadien version of it and it is not very good. We get the programs that are popular not always what interest me. And I would really love to get the American History channel; they have the most interesting historical programs ever and it takes forever to get them. Just like the history of Britain, etc. And with cable you can get all the channels of satellite for about the same price.

[Railroader]

DirectTV w/TiVo is the best in our area.

Best choice of channels/ highest number of available channels
Best quality of signal, I NEVER lose my signal during storms or rain/snow.
Lowest cost
Best customer service (I pay *I think* $2.50/month for "protection", it's worth it)
Best DVR (TiVo is just simply the best DVR)
Best hardware
Cleanest installation

The only con I have:
Need additional decoder to change channels on TVs in other rooms

Cable: (and we have TWO cable companies to choose from)
Bad signal quality -I get better over-the-air signal for two channels than I did with cable
Old/cheap equipment
BAD customer service
Most expensive
Junky DVRs - always froze and needed reboots- recorded random shows for no reason and often missed our favorite shows

[Cody Dawg]

I think one of the reasons I like the idea of satellite is just to say that I was able to tell Adelphia to screw off. They've been taking advantage of people for years - just like their former CEO John Rigas who is now in prison for ripping all the Adelphia customers and stockholders off.

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Railroader

DirectTV w/TiVo is the best in our area.
...
Best customer service (I pay *I think* $2.50/month for "protection", it's worth it)
Best DVR (TiVo is just simply the best DVR)
Best hardware
...

Unfortunately, DirecTV has ended its relationship with TiVo and developed an in-house DVR, so when the DirecTV TiVo stocks in stores run out, there will be no more.

tooki

[SVass]

For those who want an HD tv service, then you have to look at the channel lineup for each service. Some satellite providers will not include local network channels in HD and I have read that DirectTV overcompresses its signal thereby losing resolution. Realize that digital tv is compressed and the amount can affect your picture quality. One suggestion is to go to a local store and view the quality of the channels that YOU are interested in and ignore all blandishments and ads.

I have Comcast, both HD and high speed internet, and can attest to their poor service, wasted bandwidth on low quality tv, etc. However, they do have a few good, minimally compressed channels such as ESPN HD, ESPN-2 HD, Discovery HD, and PBS HD. sam

[Landos Mustache]

Satalitte will almost always look better.

Here in Canada the high def cable doesn't look anywhere near as good as the satellite does. I see it side by side all the time.

Most cable companies say "digital" but only some stations are. Satellite everything is digital.

I only get outages in MAJOR thunderstorms, maybe for a few minutes a couple times a year.

[davesimondotcom]

I've had Dish Network for probably 8 years and have been very satisfied with both the service and the customer service.

I've been using their DVR system (no monthly fee) for about 6 years. It's great.

I only get outages in VERY severe storms. And not for long.

The biggest disadvantage is that I only get CBS, FOX and NBC. No ABC because the local ABC station claims we can pick them up via antenna. Blah.

I could get around this by going in to a dealer and signing up all over again (in my name this time, instead of my wife's.) A local dealer funnels billing through another town where they can't get local TV and that makes it so we can get waivers to get all networks. We'd also get a bigger hard disc in our DVR and new equipment.

It won't be long, though, that Dish Network will be carrying all our local stations (they already have nearby cities) and we won't have to deal with that.

Right now we get "local" stations from Denver and LA.

[IceEnclosure]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Why do you prefer cable?

In my case, it was for OnDemand, a feature of Comcast cable(on demand tv shows, etc) and for their superfast internet connection.

[tooki]

It's too bad Comcast's service is so spotty. It works great for some people, and awful for others. I tried their internet at my previous dwelling, and it went down all the time. That, and Comcast doesn't have a clue how to run DNS servers.

I am now back to $$$ Covad-based DSL. It's costly, and not as fast as Comcast, but rock-solid reliable.

I, too, have been considering switching to satellite TV. Comcast is a really lousy value here.

tooki

[Cody Dawg]

Well, unfortunately for us, Comcast just bought Adelphia.



So, that reinforces my notion that we need to go to satellite and try it out.

Plus, we've had such an excellent experience with Bellsouth with everything else and when they bundle services the way that they do in order to help the customer save money, that's great. Of course, not everyone has Bellsouth, but if they do then they can definitely get some good deals.

It's worth checking with your local telephone company to see if they offer any bundle deals because it seems like most of them do nowadays.

[Landos Mustache]

My Disk provider is also my DSL provider. They also have a TV receiver that has a modem built in and it streams the TV channels over the net. Pretty nifty.

[SVass]

Remember that ALL digital tv currently uses MPEG-2 compression. Some stations/services compress more than others. No one's experience of image quality on cable in a different part of the US can be used as a guide for any other. Each division of Comcast and each local station can do as it pleases (and does). At this instant, my ESPN HD is cutting out because the AGC in the outdoor pole amplifier cuts off in the sunlight for certain frequencies. Comcast home technicians and telephone responders do not have a clue. They do not know that there are multiple parallel amplifiers and AGC (automatic gain control) devices used to cover the entire spectrum.

Analog reception quality is NOT useful in discussing digital picture quality. sam

[Landos Mustache]

Absolutely, I was on an old provider that said digital but the MPEG compression was so damn high in motions scenes it looked like the whole picture was made up of about 10 blocks.

[Teronzhul]

Several quick points as I install DirecTv systems right now for a living.

1. Have fun dealing with Bellsouth vs DirecTv on installation day. There is often substantial miscommunication between the two companies about the package deals and on several occasions I have sat at a customers house waiting for upwards of two hours as they argue back and forth between representatives to get the original deal that they were offered in place.

2. The HD-DVR you will be getting is a Tivo unit, the HR10-250, however this is an 'old' unit and is only capable of picking up mpeg2 streams off the 119 sat. Essentially this means the only HD available to you will be the 10 HD package channels and Sunday ticket if you choose to order it. DirecTv is currently turning on High Def local channels (abc, cbs, fox, nbc) and plans on having all markets online by 2007. These channels, and all future HD channels will be on the 99 and 101 satellites and will be broadcast in mpeg4 which your HR10-250 dvr will not receive. The standard H20 HD box will, but the DVR will NOT. There is a new DVR scheduled to be released later this year to replace the Tivo, but it will be an in house unit. There is talk of a $100 upgrade fee from the hr10 to the hr20 but this is unconfirmed.

3. Your local channels may not yet be available in HD via DirecTv. Check here for verificiation. http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packPr...assetId=900018

The DMA I live in (Mobile-AL/Pensacola-FL) as yet has no scheduled date for Locals, so we are obviously being pushed back far into 2007. You may be different.

[f1000]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Any ideas are very much appreciated - pros and cons of both - from those in the know.

Can you get Verizon Fios TV where you are, yet? If so, then that might be a good alternative.

http://www22.verizon.com/content/FiosTV

[Cody Dawg]

Thank you very much, Teronzhul.

I'm going to call them about exactly everything you mentioned.

to you - thank you!

[Briareus]

Underground cable lines don't blow off roofs during storms

Adelphia's been OK for me (package of extended digital cable, DVR+HD, & internet for about $60/mo - I think our HOA gets a group deal). Still doesn't mean there's anything good on TV, but 'net access has been solid.

I heard Adelphia was bankrupt, its founders/management were jailed, and Comcast was buying them out. I think this was easily over a year ago & there's been no word about the Comcast thing - I was anticipating a jump in bandwidth, a decrease in channels, and an increase in my monthly bill. Nothing yet, so I won't even consider an alternative like satellite until necessary.

[Cody Dawg]

The deal for Comcast to buy Adelphia was approved yesterday so any changes will happen shortly.

But, I haven't heard great things about Comcast either.

[NYK Ace]

i like adelphia in Buffalo because they do offer what i want in HD. NBC/CBS/ABC/ESPN 1 & 2 / Discovery HD / INHD 1 & 2 / As well as the premiums in 5.1 HD if you want. The HD DVR has worked great for me and the internet is rock solid.

many of the shows that are in Hd that i watch are on the networks and directv nor dish offer those in my area. you may need to do some research to find what package fits you best

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by tooki

Unfortunately, DirecTV has ended its relationship with TiVo and developed an in-house DVR, so when the DirecTV TiVo stocks in stores run out, there will be no more.

tooki

Didn't I point out to you that this was FUD in another thread? I think I did. Maybe it was someone else.

Either way, DirectTv and TiVo have renewed their contracts for another 3 years or so.

[ghporter]

Over something like seven years of DirecTV subscription service, I've seen three notable rate increases. The local Time Warner Cable system has had more like 40 or 50 rate bumps that were noticable, either in the price going up or the "basic cable" channel lineup going down. Further, I trust DirecTV a WHOLE LOT more than a local monopoly...

As for TiVo, I'd rather have a hard-drive equipped DVD recorder (at a premium cost, of course) than any TiVo because of the level of control TiVo takes away from the user. You have to pay them every month or the box is a stupid (not just dumb) DVR. A DVD recorder with a hard drive can record two (at least) shows at once using its native interface which usually includes a FREE channel guide. Further, you can set up a non-HD DVD recorder to act just like a VCR, which means your DirecTV receiver can tell it what to record and when. (I saw a Lite-On all-format DVD recorder at BestBuy last week for $120, and it's supposed to have a very nice interface).

[tooki]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Didn't I point out to you that this was FUD in another thread? I think I did. Maybe it was someone else.

Either way, DirectTv and TiVo have renewed their contracts for another 3 years or so.

It wasn't me you told.

Either way, the conspicuous lack of TiVo- branded DVRs, and the testimonial from Teronzhul (above), who installs DirecTV, seems to indicate that I am right, that all the TiVo-branded DVRs are being replaced with in-house models.

tooki

[Teronzhul]

The renewed agreement between directv and tivo allows for continued use of the existing installed base of directv-tivo dvr units. It also allows for DirecTV to continue using some Tivo patents in DirecTV's newer dvr units including I believe dual tuner recording, dual live buffers (currently not active on the r15), and season pass recording. I'm sketchy on exactly what patents tivo holds but I believe those are correct.

Tivo agreed to all of this since there is a huge installed subscriber base of directivo customers and it is a revenue stream that Tivo simply can't afford to lose right now.

There will be no future hardware available from DirecTV that use Tivo software. All receivers and dvrs from D* will use software developed by a Newscorp subsidiary, thanks to Rupert Murdoch.

[ghporter]

I was thinking that the DirecTV branded DVRs were RCA, but that may only be one brand they use. I still don't like renting stuff like that.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by tooki

It wasn't me you told.

Either way, the conspicuous lack of TiVo- branded DVRs, and the testimonial from Teronzhul (above), who installs DirecTV, seems to indicate that I am right, that all the TiVo-branded DVRs are being replaced with in-house models.

tooki

Sorry, it was someone else who was spreading the same FUD as you did then

Go to any BestBuy or Circuit City and you'll still see prominent displays for DirectTV TiVo set ups.
http://www.tivo.com/cms_static/press_85.html

04/12/2006

TIVO AND DIRECTV AGREE TO EXTEND RELATIONSHIP FOR THREE YEARS

Agreement Guarantees Quality Service for Existing DIRECTV TiVo Subscribers ;
Also Addresses Intellectual Property

ALVISO, CA — April 12, 2006 — TiVo Inc. (NASDAQ: TIVO ), the creator of and a leader in television services for digital video recorders (DVR), and DIRECTV, Inc. (NYSETV), the nation's leading digital television service provider, today announced a three-year extension to the TiVo-DIRECTV commercial agreement.

Existing DIRECTV TiVo subscribers will be able to continue to receive the award-winning TiVo® service, with TiVo providing ongoing maintenance and support. In addition, TiVo and DIRECTV agree not to assert patent rights against the other. The agreement also extends the advertising relationship between the two companies. DIRECTV will continue to service existing DIRECTV receivers with TiVo service. While specific financial terms of the agreement were not disclosed, the recurring monthly economics of the agreement are similar to the economics for DIRECTV receivers with TiVo service activated since 2003.

"We are pleased to have reached an agreement with DIRECTV that will allow us to continue to provide our service to the more than 2 million DIRECTV TiVo households," said TiVo CEO Tom Rogers . "As the pioneer in the DVR market, we have created a service that is highly valued by consumers because of our technology, the wide range of our unique features and the unparalleled ease of our user experience. This agreement reflects TiVo's popularity among DIRECTV subscribers and importantly respects the value of our intellectual property as well."

"By extending our agreement with TiVo, we are ensuring quality support for DIRECTV customers who already own a DIRECTV TiVo unit," said Rômulo Pontual, DIRECTV's chief technology officer. "We are pleased to cooperate with TiVo in a way that will best serve DIRECTV and our DIRECTV TiVo customers."

[Teronzhul]

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

EDIT: N/M

[tooki]

indeed.

1. It's not FUD, it's fact. DirecTV is not releasing any more TiVo units, they are now replacing all the TiVo models with house DVRs. This is obvious from the facts that a) the DirecTV website now offers only house brand DVRs, b) stores are removing their DirecTV TiVo displays, and c) the fact that they issued a press release to that effect.

2. Nobody ever claimed (certainly I didn't) that existing DirecTV TiVo units would stop functioning. THAT would be FUD.

tooki

[Railroader]

All right, I'll admit I accidentally combined the two issues of DirectTV ending TiVo service and the issue of DirectTV no longer selling TiVo boxes.

My bad.

I apologize for my FUD comments earlier. Please forgive me.

I just LOVE TiVo soooooo much!!!
I sometimes get confused.

[tooki]

I'm disappointed that DirecTV has stopped selling TiVo. Frankly, in me picking between DirecTV and Dish, TiVo could easily have been a deciding factor.

But wishing it were not so does not change it.

tooki

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by tooki

I'm disappointed that DirecTV has stopped selling TiVo. Frankly, in me picking between DirecTV and Dish, TiVo could easily have been a deciding factor.

But wishing it were not so does not change it.

tooki

DirectTV's DVR HAS to be 1000x better than Dish's. I owned it for a couple months and I'd rather video tape my shows on VHS than use a Dish PVR.

[kupan787]

Ya, I have Comcast. The DVR sucks. Period. Thank god they are going to be rolling out TiVO DVRs this year (supposedly it will be in testing in select markets starting in July). No word as to if it will be the same level of service as DirecTV (limited TiVO, no HMO, etc), or more like the standalone units (everything under the sun!). This is about the only drawback to Comcast I have had in 3 years with them. Our cable tv has never gone out, and internet has gone out a few times, but is usually back up and running within the hour. One day our internet was out for an extended period (but not TV), and I called support. The guy told me that someone had accidently cut a fiber line, and that was causing the outage. He offered to credit my account for the one day of outage. I didn't even ask for that.

We pay about $125/month for internet and TV. We have the Digital Silver package, plus HDTV, HBO, and HD-DVR. We also have the highest level internet (8Mbps/768Kbps). One other good thing is that we are in no contract, since Comcast doesn't do them, so you are not tied down if something better comes along later. We find it to be a very good deal compared to what we would be paying for satellite and cable internet or satellite and DSL.

The internet alone is worth it. I can routinely get download speeds of between 600 and 700 KBps from websites (like Apple or Microsoft), and upwords of 900+KBps using bittorrent. And yes, I mean KB as in kilobytes. Its nice.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Railroader

All right, I'll admit I accidentally combined the two issues of DirectTV ending TiVo service and the issue of DirectTV no longer selling TiVo boxes.

My bad.

I apologize for my FUD comments earlier. Please forgive me.

You see very little of this in the forum. Too little.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by Teronzhul

Several quick points as I install DirecTv systems right now for a living.

1. Have fun dealing with Bellsouth vs DirecTv on installation day. There is often substantial miscommunication between the two companies about the package deals and on several occasions I have sat at a customers house waiting for upwards of two hours as they argue back and forth between representatives to get the original deal that they were offered in place.

I agree on this. But if you order through BellSouth it should be smoother. I was a DirecTV customer before switching to BellSouth for my phone and internet. It took 5 months before they got the discount on the DirecTV bill correct. But they did retroactively credit me for the months I should have been getting the discount. It took even longer to get my Cingular discount correct.

If you do have problems there is a number to call for customer service with their bundled customers. I have that number at work and can post it later tonight. Don't waste your time with the normal BellSouth customer service number.

After all of the hassle of getting the bills straight for all of my services I'm happier. I've added up all of the cost of all of my services and discounts and I'm saving $30/month. That's due mainly to my cable companies outrageous charge for extra digital boxes.

2. The HD-DVR you will be getting is a Tivo unit, the HR10-250, however this is an 'old' unit and is only capable of picking up mpeg2 streams off the 119 sat. Essentially this means the only HD available to you will be the 10 HD package channels and Sunday ticket if you choose to order it. DirecTv is currently turning on High Def local channels (abc, cbs, fox, nbc) and plans on having all markets online by 2007. These channels, and all future HD channels will be on the 99 and 101 satellites and will be broadcast in mpeg4 which your HR10-250 dvr will not receive. The standard H20 HD box will, but the DVR will NOT. There is a new DVR scheduled to be released later this year to replace the Tivo, but it will be an in house unit. There is talk of a $100 upgrade fee from the hr10 to the hr20 but this is unconfirmed.

3. Your local channels may not yet be available in HD via DirecTv. Check here for verificiation. http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/packPr...assetId=900018

The DMA I live in (Mobile-AL/Pensacola-FL) as yet has no scheduled date for Locals, so we are obviously being pushed back far into 2007. You may be different.

The HD line up on DirecTV is not stellar. Most places don't have local HD available over sat. That's not a big deal if you can get them with an antenna. The DirecTV HD boxes also can get the over the air HD channels. If you can't easily get the local HD with an antenna it sucks though. If the market you are is not currently scheduled it will most likely be served by satellites that have not been launched yet so don't hold your breath.

I would not worry about needing to upgrade equipment. DirecTV has a long tradition of replacing equipment for free when it is required for existing customers. Right now only the local HD channels are mpeg4. If you are not getting those you don't need an mpeg4 box. It will probably be at least late '07 before any national hd channels are sent via mpeg4.

[Montezuma58]

Originally Posted by tooki

I'm disappointed that DirecTV has stopped selling TiVo. Frankly, in me picking between DirecTV and Dish, TiVo could easily have been a deciding factor.

But wishing it were not so does not change it.

tooki

That was the deciding factor for me when picking DirecTV over Dish. But that was two years ago. One good thing about the Tivo units is that it's easy to swap out or add another hard drive for more recording capacity. Can't dot that with the Dish unit. I don't know if it has been done successfully with the new DirecTV DVRs.