[selowitch]

Help! My boss wants me to shift our four-seat mixed WinXP/Mac OS X office from a peer-to-peer network to a server-based configuration, and I'm rather new at this. I have to decide whether the server should run on Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X, and figure out what software/hardware to buy.

My goals are to implement:

1. Fileserver.
2. Webserver (testing websites only, not production/public sites, thank God).
3. Shared customer-relationship management software.
4. Shared calendars and contacts.
5. Mail server is not likely (the office is just too small).

Anyway, I could really use some suggestions and pros/cons. My first thought is to install Ubuntu (a more-or-less free, open source distro of Linux) on a fairly humble PC and go from there. What are your thoughts, gang?

[Sky Captain]

Originally Posted by selowitch

Help! My boss wants me to shift our four-seat mixed WinXP/Mac OS X office from a peer-to-peer network to a server-based configuration, and I'm rather new at this. I have to decide whether the server should run on Windows, Linux, or Mac OS X, and figure out what software/hardware to buy.

My goals are to implement:

1. Fileserver.
2. Webserver (testing websites only, not production/public sites, thank God).
3. Shared customer-relationship management software.
4. Shared calendars and contacts.
5. Mail server is not likely (the office is just too small).

Anyway, I could really use some suggestions and pros/cons. My first thought is to install Ubuntu (a more-or-less free, open source distro of Linux) on a fairly humble PC and go from there. What are your thoughts, gang?

1 Windows NT Server
2 IIS services on the NT server through port 80
3 Outlook
4 Outlook

[Gossamer]

Our mixed mac/pc department is switching from Meeting Maker to Outlook/Entrouge for email/shared calendars.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by selowitch

My goals are to implement:[list=1][*]Fileserver.

XServe

Originally Posted by selowitch

[*]Webserver (testing websites only, not production/public sites, thank God).

XServe

Originally Posted by selowitch

[*]Shared customer-relationship management software.

Depends. What is your business? There are a few good PHP ones. I've used a Win32 one called eHelpDesk in a prior job and it was pretty awful, and I don't think it runs on Mac OS X. I'm writing an in house one for my job in Cocoa.

Originally Posted by selowitch

[*]Shared calendars and contacts.

Do you need multiple people to be able to edit the same shared calendar? If you don't, you can just set up iCal and a Win32 vcal compatible app to publish to an XServe. If people need to be able to publish to the same calendar, Outlook works, but it's somewhat flakey on the Mac.

Originally Posted by selowitch

Anyway, I could really use some suggestions and pros/cons. My first thought is to install Ubuntu (a more-or-less free, open source distro of Linux) on a fairly humble PC and go from there. What are your thoughts, gang?

You can go the Linux route. I just love using OS X server where I can. There is nothing OS X specific OS X server will provide you with though. I'd suggest starting with Linux and moving to OS X on an XServe later if possible.

[Tomchu]

OS X is a poor server performer.

[olePigeon]

An XServe can do all of those tasks better than Windows, except the shared Calendar part and maybe serving up high-volume webpages (we're talking 10,000 hits an hour.) Microsoft really has that down with Outlook/Entourage and Exchange Server.

An XServe can do everything that Exchange can do, but not with Outlook. It would be a lot cheaper,though. The Windows users would have to download a separate vCalendar to use. If you want calendar sharing via iCal, you'd need to buy XC Connect or something like that.

Otherwise, I'd suggest 2003 Server and Exchange Server. The good thing is that it's compatible with both Windows and Mac OS X and will do all the things you need to, plus the shared calendar. The bad thing is that you're going to be paying license costs out the ass.

This is something you should bring up with your boss:

The XServe with XC Connect will do everything you need and be a lot cheaper than a Windows 2003 and Exchange Server. Less maintenance, less security issues, less to worry about. Not using Outlook Calendar may be troublesome for Windows users.

The Windows 2003 and Exchange Server will definately do the shared calendar bit a lot better and more seemless than the XServe solution, but will cost a lot more money than the XServe solution. Both Windows and OS X users can stick with Microsoft Office using Outlook and Entourage.

Both solutions will work with Windows, Linux, and OS X Clients. So your userbase shouldn't really have to worry.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

OS X is a poor server performer.

For what? He's running a small office. Not a Fortune 500 company.

I run XServes at work with 10,000 clients and they do just fine. I think a business of at most a dozen people will do ok.

The only problem I've had with OS X server is LDAP wiggin out, but he doesn't want to run LDAP.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by goMac

For what? He's running a small office. Not a Fortune 500 company.

I run XServes at work with 10,000 clients and they do just fine. I think a business of at most a dozen people will do ok.

The only problem I've had with OS X server is LDAP wiggin out, but he doesn't want to run LDAP.

He's probably talking about page hosting. OS X has dismal threading and chokes when serving webpages in high-volume.

[Tomchu]

Originally Posted by goMac

For what? He's running a small office. Not a Fortune 500 company.

I run XServes at work with 10,000 clients and they do just fine. I think a business of at most a dozen people will do ok.

The only problem I've had with OS X server is LDAP wiggin out, but he doesn't want to run LDAP.

They're also rather expensive, and based on technology that is on its way out.

Why recommend something expensive that can be out-performed and out-priced by something else?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

He's probably talking about page hosting. OS X has dismal threading and chokes when serving webpages in high-volume.

Right, but as he's said, he's only serving to a few people.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

They're also rather expensive, and based on technology that is on its way out.

Why recommend something expensive that can be out-performed and out-priced by something else?

A Linux server could out-price it maybe, but definitely not a Windows one. He's running a server. The G5 will work wonderfully for a server for probably the next 5 years. He's not buying a production workstation or anything.

Besides, it doesn't sound like too much longer is left until the Intel XServes show up anyway.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Tomchu

TWhy recommend something expensive that can be out-performed and out-priced by something else?

The XServe is one of the most price-competitive 1U rackmount servers out there. OS X Server, next to Linux, is the cheapest server software out there. What in hells are you talking about?

Here's a little headsup for you on software prices alone:

Windows Server 2003 R2 Standard Edition (50 Licenses): $3,000
Additional CALs: $40 per device (computer, Palm, cell phone, etc.)
Exchange Server 2003 Standard Edition: $700
Additional Exchange CALs: $67 per device (computer, Palm, cell phone, etc.)

Mac OS X Server (Unlimited License): $1,000
Mac OS X Server eMail: Free
Additional licensing: None

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by goMac

Besides, it doesn't sound like too much longer is left until the Intel XServes show up anyway.

I'm betting on August. WWDC is a great place to announce Xeon based XServe and maybe MacPro systems.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by olePigeon

I'm betting on August. WWDC is a great place to announce Xeon based XServe and maybe MacPro systems.

Maybe. It would be awesome to see a demo of an XServe running OS X Server, Win 2k3 Server, and Linux concurrently via Vanderpool virtualization at WWDC.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by goMac

Maybe. It would be awesome to see a demo of an XServe running OS X Server, Win 2k3 Server, and Linux concurrently via Vanderpool virtualization at WWDC.

Yeah, probably why Microsoft updated their licensing to inclue Virtual Machines.

[besson3c]

What is your budget, and how many users?

Exchange is expensive and doesn't scale particularly well. You may be looking at creating a pool/cluster of both web and/or Groupware servers if you have enough users.

Don't listen to any of this advice until we are on the same page with how many users you are dealing with. The solution has to scale - period. All other talk of solutions is rather moot if the ideas offered wont' work in your environment.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by besson3c

What is your budget, and how many users?

Exchange is expensive and doesn't scale particularly well. You may be looking at creating a pool/cluster of both web and/or Groupware servers if you have enough users.

Don't listen to any of this advice until we are on the same page with how many users you are dealing with. The solution has to scale - period. All other talk of solutions is rather moot if the ideas offered wont' work in your environment.

He already said exactly how many users the server will have:

"My boss wants me to shift our four-seat mixed WinXP/Mac OS X office from a peer-to-peer network to a server-based configuration, and I'm rather new at this"

He also said the web server is not for serving to the public.

[besson3c]

Whopps... I missed that.

Okay, with so few users that means there are several options available.

I've been researching a lot of Groupware options where I work here at the University (we manage Cyrus email servers for over 120,000 users). The catch is, does this Groupware solution need to interact directly with your stand-alone email client (i.e. Outlook, OS X Mail, etc)?

If so, there are a few open source solutions available, but they are often difficult to setup. The problem is that solutions such as Outlook and Zimbra (probably the strongest two Groupware products I know of) are designed for large enterprises. You'd probably have to pay a fair bit to get an Exchange server in the office. You can run the open source edition of Zimbra, but you wouldn't be able to use the connectors that allow interaction with stand-alone email clients, and yearly licenses for small business that would provide access to the connectors (and support) are $1450/year.

If you don't care about using a Groupware solution with a stand-alone email client, there are a ton of web-based solutions available. I can recommend some to you if you'd like.

As far as file sharing and web serving, I think you'd be fine with just about anything for such few users. You'd have an easy time setting up a Mac server for this purpose. If you were on a limited budget, Ubuntu or FreeBSD would also be a great choice.

[besson3c]

Also, is this information sensitive? There are security issues to consider too. Is your company behind a firewall?

[thunderous_funker]

If you have less than 100 clients, its probably cheaper to simply outsource your email. Lots of companies will do that. The upside is cost. The downside can be response to problems (depending on the company and what level of support you pay for). Don't go with some enterprise email unless you've got the resources to effectively guaruntee uptime. Its you they are gonna call in the middle of the night when it doesn't work.

Small scale eCRM suites are available and almost all of them will include contacts and calanders. Lots of them simply run off of a db file on a shared drive. No "server" necessary.

Fileserving is not much more than a shared drive now that Windows and Mac OS let you see each other's filesystems. If you don't have serious performance requirements, any old PC or Mac sitting in a corner will do. Don't even need a server OS.

Apache webserver will install on all kinds of platforms. Again, don't really need "server" hardware or OS if it isn't going to be all that busy.

If you're determined to have some dedicated server hardware and a server OS, I would recommend sticking with OS X or Windows unless you've got a *nix stud on the payroll. Which one you pick probably depends on:

1) which groups of users gets the slightly crappier experience. Windows clients will suffer slight inconveniences under OS X Server, Mac clients under Windows Server. Both work, but there are limitations and quirkiness. Just pick which group of clients is more critical to keep happy. (ie are your company officers running Windows or Mac? let that be your guide)

2) Pick which one is easiest for you to administer. If you already know how to manage OS X Server, go with it. If you're more familiar with Windows, go with it. Yes, Windows will cost more up front, but if you know how to administer it and keep up with it, it will save you more money in the long run (and sleepless night and uncomfortable conference calls with your bosses) over learning something new.

[vmarks]

Do this: http://www.marketcircle.com/daylite/
similar to Act for windows.

Has the shared contacts and calendars as a part of its features.

Uses the OpenBase SQL 9.0 PowerCenter included in Daylite installer.

You wouldn't necessarily need OS X server.

You could do web hosting for your intranet on OS X client. ( web pages go in /Library/WebServer/Documents by default)

outsource your email. Seriously.

Use daylite on that client-acting-as-server.

Turning on file sharing is easy as well. Personal file sharing for Macs, windows file sharing for windows.

Unfortunately, it doesn't help you with your cross-platform clients for the CRM stuff.
You could do a web CRM thing like netsuite.com, although theirs lacks something compared to the ones that run locally as an application.