[SkirtingTheBan]

Holy crap look at all the stuff God put underground just to fool us into thinking evolution is real!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,203298,00.html

Giant flesh eating killer kangaroos, birds that weighed over 800lbs, and marsupial lions. Austrialia is freakin weird.

[Chuckit]

Erm…War Lounge is thattaway. So IBL.

[Monique]

This is just it; there are potteris older than what the right wing religious fanatics tell us, older than 6,000 years.

It is one of the thing I do not understand from the right why do you still deny that the earth is older than 6,000. Anyway how did they come up with that number.

[moodymonster]

tree climbing crocs - that would be a bit unfortunate.

[RAILhead]

...and this has what to do with the Bible?

[iranfromthezoo]

yeah I tend to agree with RAIL what does this have to do with the Bible? I'm not finding the connection?

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by Monique

This is just it; there are potteris older than what the right wing religious fanatics tell us, older than 6,000 years.

It is one of the thing I do not understand from the right why do you still deny that the earth is older than 6,000. Anyway how did they come up with that number.

That is not an idea held by the "right" (whatever the hell that is) - that's an idea held by lunatics who don't understand the basic concepts of learning. The vast majority of Christians do not believe the world was created in 7 days just a few thousand years ago. The fact that you think they do says quite a lot about you.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by moodymonster

tree climbing crocs - that would be a bit unfortunate.

Ya good thing Adam and Eve never got chased by one.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by Monique

This is just it; there are potteris older than what the right wing religious fanatics tell us, older than 6,000 years.

It is one of the thing I do not understand from the right why do you still deny that the earth is older than 6,000. Anyway how did they come up with that number.

What it's supposed to signify is the 6-day creation, with 1000 years signifying a day, as per II Peter 3:8 which says that to God a day is as a thousand years. Taking that literally, and making the earth 6000 years old, it would mean that we would be just entering the 7th day now, which is convenient for the people that insist that this is the end times.

[PlacidTubs]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

What it's supposed to signify is the 6-day creation, with 1000 years signifying a day, as per II Peter 3:8 which says that to God a day is as a thousand years. Taking that literally, and making the earth 6000 years old, it would mean that we would be just entering the 7th day now, which is convenient for the people that insist that this is the end times.

I'm not a Christian, but if I was, I'd take " to God a day is as a thousand years" as a way of saying that God is not bound by the limitations of time; there is no difference between a day and a thousand years to him.

I have nothing against the majority of Christians, but to take that to mean the world was made in 6000 years is a bit of a leap.

edit: I looked at the link and the full quote is "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." I think that if you look at the quote as a whole, it definately seems to suggest my interpretation? What do others think?

[memento]

THANK YOU CharlesS! I have a friend who is STUCK on saying that civilization is only 6000 years old, but she simply cannot explain why she believes that. She is Russian Orthodox. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence of civilization older than that, she won't listen and can't explain where she got that 6k number from.

I don't take the Bible literally. you have to remember when it was written. For this specific item, I would take it to mean exactly what PlacidTubs said.

[RAILhead]

As a Christ Follower I can only speak for myself (though I know hundreds, personally, that think as I do — and millions more I don't know personally): 7 days of creation isn't literal, either as 24 hours days or as 1000 years "days."

Truth be told, it's really a moot point to 99.9% of Christ Followers since it's kinda low on the totem pole as far the Faith is concerned.

[PlacidTubs]

I have only ever met one person who believes the creation story should be taken literally. Then again, living in the UK could have something to do with that.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by memento

THANK YOU CharlesS! I have a friend who is STUCK on saying that civilization is only 6000 years old, but she simply cannot explain why she believes that. She is Russian Orthodox. Even in the face of overwhelming evidence of civilization older than that, she won't listen and can't explain where she got that 6k number from.

You can't really blame religion for that. It's just intellectual laziness.

[CharlesS]

Originally Posted by PlacidTubs

I'm not a Christian, but if I was, I'd take " to God a day is as a thousand years" as a way of saying that God is not bound by the limitations of time; there is no difference between a day and a thousand years to him.

I have nothing against the majority of Christians, but to take that to mean the world was made in 6000 years is a bit of a leap.

edit: I looked at the link and the full quote is "one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day." I think that if you look at the quote as a whole, it definately seems to suggest my interpretation? What do others think?

Oh, I agree. I was just answering the question that Monique posted. I was brought up in a very strict religious family, so I'm a little more familiar with some of these things than some.

Basically, fundamentalist Christians (at least, the ones in my experience) believe that things in the Bible can be symbolic, but that they are also literal at the same time. They believe that God works symbolism into reality, so that reality can be symbolic of itself. The world was literally created in 7 days, which is symbolic of a 7000 year lifespan for the earth made out of 7 thousand-year "days," the seventh being the 1000 year reign of Christ following the second coming which is supposed to happen Real Soon Now. Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac literally happened, and is symbolic of Jesus being sacrificed. The Pharoah of Egypt trying to kill Moses as a baby by ordering all the first-born Israelites to be killed literally happened, and is symbolic of Herod trying to kill Jesus via a similar method. Etc.

Again, these are not my beliefs; I'm just trying to elucidate things a bit, and answer a question that was asked.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

As a Christ Follower I can only speak for myself (though I know hundreds, personally, that think as I do — and millions more I don't know personally): 7 days of creation isn't literal, either as 24 hours days or as 1000 years "days."

Truth be told, it's really a moot point to 99.9% of Christ Followers since it's kinda low on the totem pole as far the Faith is concerned.

Prove to me that the earth is only 6,000 years old when there fossels that are much more older than that.

Funny in the Bible there is no mention of dinosaurs. Are you saying they never existed?

What about the Mesopotamian empire, the Egyptian one, etc. They are much older than 6,000 years old.

How did the creation occur, is it like in the Bible, God snapped his fingers and everything appear?

What about Adam and Eve do you really think that only 2 people are responsible in only 6,000 years for the 6 billion plus of people today. In the Bible it says that they only had 2 sons, so how is it possible??

They never have found the ark, and the flood do you really think it affected the entire world when the only world mention in the Bible is in the Mid-East.

[RAILhead]

HEY MONIQUE: learn to read.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by CharlesS

Oh, I agree. I was just answering the question that Monique posted. I was brought up in a very strict religious family, so I'm a little more familiar with some of these things than some.

Basically, fundamentalist Christians (at least, the ones in my experience) believe that things in the Bible can be symbolic, but that they are also literal at the same time. They believe that God works symbolism into reality, so that reality can be symbolic of itself. The world was literally created in 7 days, which is symbolic of a 7000 year lifespan for the earth made out of 7 thousand-year "days," the seventh being the 1000 year reign of Christ following the second coming which is supposed to happen Real Soon Now. Abraham's attempted sacrifice of Isaac literally happened, and is symbolic of Jesus being sacrificed. The Pharoah of Egypt trying to kill Moses as a baby by ordering all the first-born Israelites to be killed literally happened, and is symbolic of Herod trying to kill Jesus via a similar method. Etc.

Again, these are not my beliefs; I'm just trying to elucidate things a bit, and answer a question that was asked.

Actually there is 2,000 years since the death of Christ. So it should be 8,000 years. That does not explain dinosaurs, they are not mentioned in the Bible.

As for Abraham it was a test from God to know if Abraham would be ready to sacrifice everything for him.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Monique

That does not explain dinosaurs, they are not mentioned in the Bible.

Oh, good thing you've read the Bible then!

Originally Posted by Job 40

15 "Look at the behemoth, [a]
which I made along with you
and which feeds on grass like an ox.

16 What strength he has in his loins,
what power in the muscles of his belly!

17 His tail [b] sways like a cedar;
the sinews of his thighs are close-knit.

18 His bones are tubes of bronze,
his limbs like rods of iron.

This sounds an awful lot like a dinosaur. There might be another interpretation that I'm not aware of though, so don't take my word for it.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Oh, good thing you've read the Bible then!


This sounds an awful lot like a dinosaur. There might be another interpretation that I'm not aware of though, so don't take my word for it.

Sounds like a buffalo.

Plus I wasn't aware humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time.

"Look at the behemoth, [a] which I made along with you"

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Oh, good thing you've read the Bible then!


This sounds an awful lot like a dinosaur. There might be another interpretation that I'm not aware of though, so don't take my word for it.

I read it twice and studied with experts. Sorry your arguement is false Job is a story, a fairytale.

Now if everything in the Old Testament was true, you would be selling your daughter into slavery, and people would get stoned for planting different crops side by side, and there would be no football because touching the skin of a pig makes you unclean.

Read Job again and really read carefully the beginning of it.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Monique

I read it twice and studied with experts. Sorry your arguement is false Job is a story, a fairytale.

Now if everything in the Old Testament was true, you would be selling your daughter into slavery, and people would get stoned for planting different crops side by side, and there would be no football because touching the skin of a pig makes you unclean.

Read Job again and really read carefully the beginning of it.

Ya and divorce isn't allowed, nor is sex before marriage and straight people never have anal sex. Only the evil gays do.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Monique

I read it twice and studied with experts. Sorry your arguement is false Job is a story, a fairytale.

Now if everything in the Old Testament was true, you would be selling your daughter into slavery, and people would get stoned for planting different crops side by side, and there would be no football because touching the skin of a pig makes you unclean.

Read Job again and really read carefully the beginning of it.

There is a BIG difference between 'true' and 'all laws meant for governing old testament Israel are applicable to modern Christians.'

Originally Posted by Job 1

Prologue

1 In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright; he feared God and shunned evil. 2 He had seven sons and three daughters, 3 and he owned seven thousand sheep, three thousand camels, five hundred yoke of oxen and five hundred donkeys, and had a large number of servants. He was the greatest man among all the people of the East.
4 His sons used to take turns holding feasts in their homes, and they would invite their three sisters to eat and drink with them. 5 When a period of feasting had run its course, Job would send and have them purified. Early in the morning he would sacrifice a burnt offering for each of them, thinking, "Perhaps my children have sinned and cursed God in their hearts." This was Job's regular custom.

I missed the part where it says this was a fairy tale.

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Sounds like a buffalo.

Plus I wasn't aware humans and dinosaurs roamed the earth at the same time.

1) I wasn't awake that buffalos had a tail that swayed like a cedar.
2) I never made the claim that humans and dinosaurs co-existed. I was countering Monique's claim that "they are not mentioned in the Bible." The word 'dinosaur' didn't exist until the late 1800s or early 1900s, if I'm not mistaken, so of course the Bible wouldn't say 'dinosaur.'

(Mods: Could this be moved to the PL?)

[CMYKid]

Originally Posted by Monique

Prove to me that the earth is only 6,000 years old when there fossels that are much more older than that.

Funny in the Bible there is no mention of dinosaurs. Are you saying they never existed?

What about the Mesopotamian empire, the Egyptian one, etc. They are much older than 6,000 years old.

How did the creation occur, is it like in the Bible, God snapped his fingers and everything appear?

What about Adam and Eve do you really think that only 2 people are responsible in only 6,000 years for the 6 billion plus of people today. In the Bible it says that they only had 2 sons, so how is it possible??

They never have found the ark, and the flood do you really think it affected the entire world when the only world mention in the Bible is in the Mid-East.

annnnnnd they never mentioned ducks, THEYmust not have existed either, OMG!!11!zzzz

seriously, you should read/think occasionally.

anyway, beliefes in origins and theology aside, if you think that in pickyournumberofyears it's not possible to go from a very few rabbits to being as$deep in them then you must have skipped elementary school math and that whole exponents thing. so yeah, 6 billions really not a stretch.

[Landos Mustache]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

1) I wasn't awake that buffalos had a tail that swayed like a cedar.

Fine call it a rino, it is stupid to try to figure it out anyway.

One bible says one thing, the other says another.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

This sounds an awful lot like a dinosaur. There might be another interpretation that I'm not aware of though, so don't take my word for it.

Because humans lived at the same time as dinosaurs.

(Damn it, I can't find that funny ass comic of the Christian Science Museum's Dinosaur area...)

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

This sounds an awful lot like a dinosaur. There might be another interpretation that I'm not aware of though, so don't take my word for it.

I think it's generally held to be the Hebrew mythological creature called the Behemoth. If we want to assign it to a real creature, though, I would be inclined to say it's a kind of bull (with "tail" being used in its other sense).

[Gossamer]

That doesn't look like a cedar to me.
And the NASB translation, which is fairly accurate to the original greek/hebrew/aramaic manuscripts says 'cedar.' You have no solid point. (swg)

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

I think it's generally held to be the Hebrew mythological creature called the Behemoth. If we want to assign it to a real creature, though, I would be inclined to say it's a kind of bull (with "tail" being used in its other sense).

Ah, that makes some sense. BTW I love tail.

[invisibleX]

If you believe, all the evidence in the world will mean nothing.

If you don't, the idea some compilation of books is the ultimate truth is little more than a deluded fairy tale.


I don't really see any basis for you folks to argue. These are hardly the first fossils ever discovered. I can't imagine what another nail in an imaginary coffin is going to do. Creationists either didn't give a damn or found explanations for every other fossil. You can't sway faith with evidence, you're dealing on completely different planes.

Gossamer, non-believers/whatever will mock and ridicule your beliefs. Thats life. I don't fully understand the bible and I doubt anyone does. If you want to believe in something that isn't dependent on other people's opinions on it. However, don't imagine there is one bit of evidence that your belief is "right". Its rather pointless to get into discussions with people who have already deemed you wrong and your beliefs unsound. They've made up their minds and you're never going to get anywhere, and neither will they.

[memento]

Originally Posted by Chuckit

You can't really blame religion for that. It's just intellectual laziness.

I'm happy to have an explanation. No blame being placed on religion at all.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

Gossamer, non-believers/whatever will mock and ridicule your beliefs. Thats life. I don't fully understand the bible and I doubt anyone does. If you want to believe in something that isn't dependent on other people's opinions on it. However, don't imagine there is one bit of evidence that your belief is "right". Its rather pointless to get into discussions with people who have already deemed you wrong and your beliefs unsound. They've made up their minds and you're never going to get anywhere, and neither will they.

My intent was not to defend Christianity. My intent was to point out false points in their arguments.

[Monique]

[QUOTE=Gossamer]Oh, good thing you've read the Bible then!


Uz does not exist unlike Egypt, Jerusalem, etc.

If it exists in your imagination where is it??

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

My intent was not to defend Christianity. My intent was to point out false points in their arguments.

Arguments which are not even the slightest bit relevant. I defy anyone to have a conversation with a died-in-the-wool creationist or atheist that ends in them doing a complete 360 on their opinion. Even trying is childish and silly. You can't prove "those" (either side) wrong. You can however ignore their blather and get along.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Monique

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Oh, good thing you've read the Bible then!

Uz does not exist unlike Egypt, Jerusalem, etc.

If it exists in your imagination where is it??

Ah, because every current state/country has the EXACT same name as it did back then. And all the borders are the same.

[Monique]

If you looked in the dictionary the definition is:

Enormous creature or thing. (Middle English from Hebrew,beast or from the Egyptian for water ox); no dinosaurs and the ice age next how would you explain that one.

The flood how do you explain that one, Mid-East or the entire world that nobody knew about at the time the Bible was written.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by Monique

If you looked in the dictionary the definition is:

Enormous creature or thing. (Middle English from Hebrew,beast or from the Egyptian for water ox); no dinosaurs and the ice age next how would you explain that one.

The flood how do you explain that one, Mid-East or the entire world that nobody knew about at the time the Bible was written.

You made the claim that the Bible never mentioned Dinosaurs. I made the point that of course it wouldn't. Then I pointed out a section that could be interpreted as dinosaurs. I don't see what that has to do with anything you're saying now.

[Monique]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Ah, because every current state/country has the EXACT same name as it did back then. And all the borders are the same.

So what is the name of this illusive place??

[sek929]

I posted in this thread™

[invisibleX]

[QUOTE=Monique]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Oh, good thing you've read the Bible then!


Uz does not exist unlike Egypt, Jerusalem, etc.

If it exists in your imagination where is it??

Monique, if I believe that there is a magical rock that foats in space and will one day smite my enemies, and you show me a rock and say rocks do not exhibit that behavior, I'm not going to change my mind. Why? Because my belief is not dependent on evidence and yours is. You may call me ignorant, but I can call you childish for trying to take away from me something that is in no way harmful to you.

You're a bit unclear so I hope you aren't claiming Uz could not have existed. Because place names, territories and lands change rather frequently and all we have to go on is attempts to dig it all up. Just because it does not exist today does not mean it never did.

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by Monique

If you looked in the dictionary the definition is:

Enormous creature or thing. (Middle English from Hebrew,beast or from the Egyptian for water ox); no dinosaurs and the ice age next how would you explain that one.

The flood how do you explain that one, Mid-East or the entire world that nobody knew about at the time the Bible was written.

I'm genuinely curious, why are you so intent on ripping apart christianity? Or at the very least the bible as it were.

[invisibleX]

Originally Posted by sek929

I posted in this thread™

It kind of warms my heart that kevin hasn't.


See you on page 6.

[Chuckit]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

You're a bit unclear so I hope you aren't claiming Uz could not have existed. Because place names, territories and lands change rather frequently and all we have to go on is attempts to dig it all up. Just because it does not exist today does not mean it never did.

Beyond that, the OT offers nothing useful to go on as far as locating it except to say it's in "the east." I could believe there was a place called "Uz" somewhere between Egypt and Japan, and we'd never have heard of it.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by invisibleX

It kind of warms my heart that kevin hasn't.


See you on page 6.

Yeah well I hear god was ghey.

See you on page 10

[moodymonster]

imagine if they find flying monkeys, whoa! killer kangaroos, tree climbing crocs, flying monkeys - we'd be fooked. haha!

[sek929]

Screw those things, right now in AUS they have foot-long centipedes

[invisibleX]

If it weren't for the women, I'd be 100% behind nuking australia from space.

[MrsLarry]

I just wanted to be a part of this post™

My two cents:

- I was raised Catholic.
- I believe in God
- I believe that The Church™ (whichever one that may be) is run by humans, who inevitably make mistakes
- I believe the Bible has some good tips for living life in a realtively moral way.
- I DO NOT take it literally, and was taught by my Catholic school teachers not to take it literally.
- I believe in Science, Scientists are generally pretty smart folks, and if they said the world is umpteen years old, i tend to believe 'em.
- I believe dinosaurs existed
- I believe that Bible writers had no interest in dinosaurs, they were writing a book about religion
- The Bible is not an accurate depiction of history
- The Bible is not a Science or Social Studies book
- I believe that times are changing, and religion should change accordingly
- I believe that people have the right to love whomever they wish (same-sex or otherwise)
- And finally, I believe that God would want us to make up our own minds about stuff, not just live a particular way because some book says so.

</soapbox>

[sek929]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

I just wanted to be a part of this post™

My two cents:

- I was raised Catholic.
- I believe in God
- I believe that The Church™ (whichever one that may be) is run by humans, who inevitably make mistakes
- I believe the Bible has some good tips for living life in a realtively moral way.
- I DO NOT take it literally, and was taught by my Catholic school teachers not to take it literally.
- I believe in Science, Scientists are generally pretty smart folks, and if they said the world is umpteen years old, i tend to believe 'em.
- I believe dinosaurs existed
- I believe that Bible writers had no interest in dinosaurs, they were writing a book about religion
- The Bible is not an accurate depiction of history
- The Bible is not a Science or Social Studies book
- I believe that times are changing, and religion should change accordingly
- I believe that people have the right to love whomever they wish (same-sex or otherwise)
- And finally, I believe that God would want us to make up our own minds about stuff, not just live a particular way because some book says so.

</soapbox>

Wow, 5 pages of posts consolidated into one single post, well done

[Monique]

Originally Posted by MrsLarry

I just wanted to be a part of this post™

My two cents:

- I was raised Catholic.
- I believe in God
- I believe that The Church™ (whichever one that may be) is run by humans, who inevitably make mistakes
- I believe the Bible has some good tips for living life in a realtively moral way.
- I DO NOT take it literally, and was taught by my Catholic school teachers not to take it literally.
- I believe in Science, Scientists are generally pretty smart folks, and if they said the world is umpteen years old, i tend to believe 'em.
- I believe dinosaurs existed
- I believe that Bible writers had no interest in dinosaurs, they were writing a book about religion
- The Bible is not an accurate depiction of history
- The Bible is not a Science or Social Studies book
- I believe that times are changing, and religion should change accordingly
- I believe that people have the right to love whomever they wish (same-sex or otherwise)
- And finally, I believe that God would want us to make up out own minds about stuff, not just live a particular way because some book says so.

</soapbox>

If you are still Catholic, you give a good example to Rome of tolerance, acceptance and loving your neighbour; not judging others and all religions should be like this.