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Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 01:18 PM

Never thought about it before but this show has some interesting information.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...;q=penn+teller

Millennium · Jul 14, 2006, 01:26 PM

[barbie]Abstinence is haaaaard![/barbie]

ort888 · Jul 14, 2006, 01:32 PM

This chick I used to know had this to say about abstinence...

"It's like deciding you aren't going to take a dump for two months. It's just not natural."

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 01:35 PM

"we have a surgeon general that was fired because understands human nature."

No, she was fired because she was a friggin' retard.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 01:36 PM

I have no problem with teaching abstinence, but I don't like it when they say it is the ONLY option.

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 01:36 PM

This is pretty funny. There was a teacher at my HS who was an abstinence promoter, she claimed she was still a virgin at the age of 36 or so. She wasn't married, and I'm not sure she was still a virgin because she was a total bitch, or she was a total bitch because she was still a virgin.

Either way, I hated her guts since she was such a bitch, so I used classifieds2000.com to sign up a few phone sex ads for people to 'call her and get her wet while she's at work'. It was classic.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 01:40 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

I have no problem with teaching abstinence, but I don't like it when they say it is the ONLY option.

That has it's use too, as counter-balance the stupid idea that many teenagers seem to have that it's OK to just bang everything in sight.

Maybe somewhere in the middle they will do the right thing.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

That has it's use too, as counter-balance the stupid idea that many teenagers seem to have that it's OK to just bang everything in sight.

Maybe somewhere in the middle they will do the right thing.

True, but by the looks of things the money is being put towards Abstinence ONLY.

did you see the interviews with the virgins? They look like are all about to snap

Can you imagine how lousy they will be in bed when they finally do get any? They will both be like "I waited 30 years for THIS?" and get a divorce.

Dakar · Jul 14, 2006, 01:47 PM

I wonder how many people who want abstinence programs had sex in high school.

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 01:50 PM

all of them.

But anyway, as I watch this I can't help but draw similarities to the DARE program, just say no. No real information about drugs, what they do, etc, just, drugs are bad, they ruin your life, if you do drugs you will either die, kill someone, or ruin your life. All crap.

This kind of 'mis-education' about sex, or drugs, is downright scary.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 01:51 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

I wonder how many people who want abstinence programs had sex in high school.

The video showed that 88% of people who took virginity vows broke it.

People who the same people are also MORE LIKLY to NOT use a condom when they brake the vow.

In other words it is making things worse and everyone is too stupid to see it.

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 01:52 PM

haha. Surgeon general lady: "we've tried ignorance for over a thousand years... it's time we try education."

hahahahha

Awesome.

Dakar · Jul 14, 2006, 01:54 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

People who the same people are also MORE LIKLY to NOT use a condom when they brake the vow.

The vow probably changes the sexual encounter from a planned occurrence to a poorly thought-out moment of passion.

Millennium · Jul 14, 2006, 01:55 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

did you see the interviews with the virgins? They look like are all about to snap

And I reiterate: [barbie]Abstinence is haaaaaard![/barbie] And hey; wouldn't you be about to snap if every message of today's media, not to mention your own classes, considered you a freak for something you had committed yourself to?

Can you imagine how lousy they will be in bed when they finally do get any? They will both be like "I waited 30 years for THIS?" and get a divorce.

Any marriage based on how good the spouses are in bed is doomed to fail anyway. No amount of premature sexual activity is going to change that.

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Any marriage based on how good the spouses are in bed is doomed to fail anyway. No amount of premature sexual activity is going to change that.

Voice of reason!

I agree with you, SWG, in that abstinence shouldn't be the only thing taught. My high school taught us all about different kinds of birth control, but that didn't make me want to have sex. I do hope it made my more 'active' classmates better informed.
I'm also angry about misinformation. Things like being able to get AIDS from tears or sweat...that's just retarded.

But I didn't realize abstinence and masturbation couldn't co-exist. I like it when the virgin said he's probably jump out a window if he couldn't.

Although I do know guys that decided to give it up and did.

Monique · Jul 14, 2006, 02:03 PM

Unless she is totally desperate or dependant on ther husband a woman will not stay very long with a man that does not know that she has a clitoris and it is meant to be used. Vaginal penetration will never give as much pleasure and it is very selfish to expect a woman to sacrifice her orgasms to only satify the man in her life. Having sex before marriage means that you have already discovered ways to reach orgasms.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Millennium

Any marriage based on how good the spouses are in bed is doomed to fail anyway. No amount of premature sexual activity is going to change that.

I would say that part of what has made my marital sex life great is that neither of us knew what we were doing and we figured it out together, but that's just me.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

The vow probably changes the sexual encounter from a planned occurrence to a poorly thought-out moment of passion.

True and the abstinence courses not only do no education them on birth control but actually teach against it.

Same goes for masturbation (that's bad also).

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 02:04 PM

Originally Posted by Monique

Unless she is totally desperate or dependant on ther husband a woman will not stay very long with a man that does not know that she has a clitoris and it is meant to be used. Vaginal penetration will never give as much pleasure and it is very selfish to expect a woman to sacrifice her orgasms to only satify the man in her life. Having sex before marriage means that you have already discovered ways to reach orgasms.

The 'have sex to practice for marriage' argument is very weak.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by Monique

Vaginal penetration will never give as much pleasure

This is Physiologically inaccurate.

I work for the American Vagina Institute and I know a little bit about the subject.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

I would say that part of what has made my marital sex life great is that neither of us knew what we were doing and we figured it out together, but that's just me.

Good think you both had the same experience (or lack of) or it would have ended quick. Guess you are one of the lucky few.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:08 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Good think you both had the same experience (or lack of) or it would have ended quick. Guess you are one of the lucky few.

Well, IDEALLY, the best situation is for her to be VERY good, but with VERY LOW self-esteem.

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Same goes for masturbation (that's bad also).

They do? Even though P&T cut the lady off before letting her give her opinion on the matter, she said her program 'didn't address it.' I'm not defending her program by any means but I'm saying that, according to this video, abstinence-based education don't say masturbation is bad. If you've got data otherwise, my ears are open.

Dakar · Jul 14, 2006, 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

True and the abstinence courses not only do no education them on birth control but actually teach against it.

Teach against it? I don't know.

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Same goes for masturbation (that's bad also).

Where? Religious schools?

Originally Posted by Monique

Vaginal penetration will never give as much pleasure.

Not if you have a vagina like the BatCave.

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 02:13 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

This is Physiologically inaccurate.

I work for the American Vagina Institute and I know a little bit about the subject.

Can I sign up for that newsletter too?

But seriously, vaginal penetration does not provide as much stimulation to the clit as other things. That's a fact, jack.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:15 PM

As much as we focus on the issue of how sex should addressed in education, it is indeed a cultural problem.

In America we are told, essentially, that sex is dirty and something is "wrong" with it. So as teenagers we have raging desires coupled with an upbringing that tells us it's "dirty" to have sex. Weird.

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 02:16 PM

Sex messed up my first few relationships. Everything was fine, then we did it, and it did affect our relationship... I'm not sure if it was the letdown of sex, or the greatness of sex, but it's definitely a turning point. That said, I'm extremely glad I had sex before marriage, it allowed me to learn a lot about relationships... I'm sure that my first girlfriend would say I was horrid in bed, and then better and better as you ask more of them, and my wife loves me.

So. Yeah. Abstinence, waiting for marriage..yeeesh... I think it could lead to more divorce rates, purely because peopel might not know how to handle sex's implications on your long drawn out relationship devoid of physical pleasures.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by SkirtmanMcSkirt

Can I sign up for that newsletter too?

But seriously, vaginal penetration does not provide as much stimulation to the clit as other things. That's a fact, jack.

Guess you never heard of the A zone or the G spot?

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 02:16 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

As much as we focus on the issue of how sex should addressed in education, it is indeed a cultural problem.

In America we are told, essentially, that sex is dirty and something is "wrong" with it. So as teenagers we have raging desires coupled with an upbringing that tells us it's "dirty" to have sex. Weird.

Or just rebellious. Watch an afternoon of Maury's paternity tests and you'll be turned off sex forever.

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 02:17 PM

Never heard of the a zone. Definitely know hte g spot, but as far as I know, the G spot is located on the inner frontal wall of the vagina, about 1-2" in. It's hard to stimulate it with penetration unless you have some sort of knobbly dick.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

They do? Even though P&T cut the lady off before letting her give her opinion on the matter, she said her program 'didn't address it.' I'm not defending her program by any means but I'm saying that, according to this video, abstinence-based education don't say masturbation is bad. If you've got data otherwise, my ears are open.

Here is some nice info from abstinence sites. Pretty much it will lead you to murder someone.

What is masturbation?

A: Masturbation is the name given to sexual stimulation of oneself. Medical terminology of previous decades used the term "self abuse." The term is not far off the mark if one considers that abuse of anything is the use of it in a manner not intended or not reflecting its nature.

Self stimulation relies heavily on the use of pornography. Pornography and graphic imagery usually fuel the desire to act out sexually rather than repressing it. As evidence, witness the spate of child sexual murders committed by adults. Over 85% of the crime scene investigations discover pornography, according the United States Department of Justice.

Masturbation is addictive. The capturing of the imagination during self stimulation is habit-forming. As a result, some people come to prefer self stimulation to actual intercourse. This explains why even married people often continue in a pattern of pornography and masturbation.

It is very easy for teens to get into a habit of masturbation that precludes them from doing more productive things that will add to the success in their lives. Besides being a waste of time, it trains the body to respond to self more than other people.

Sex is a physical and spiritual exchange between two people, a progressive bonding experience, an expression of intimacy. The marriage will not endure if one is more interested in self than one's spouse.

John R. Diggs, Jr., MD

http://www.abstinencedu.com/explore.cfm/viewqanda/

"Catholicism
The Catechism of the Catholic Church lists masturbation as one of the "Offenses Against Chastity" and calls it "an intrinsically and gravely disordered action" because "use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." Indulging in the act, in this case, is considered more immoral than the act itself."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by SkirtmanMcSkirt

Never heard of the a zone. Definitely know hte g spot, but as far as I know, the G spot is located on the inner frontal wall of the vagina, about 1-2" in. It's hard to stimulate it with penetration unless you have some sort of knobbly dick.

Yeah the G spot is hard to reach but it yields much better results than the clit.

The A zone is half-way between the G and the Cervix, perfect for a penis to reach and it is THIS that dominates my wife's pleasure. NOT her clit.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:24 PM

Every woman I know has shared this information with me said they rarly get orgasms from intercourse unless the clit is being stimulated with something else.

99% of them say oral is what works best.

And before anyone says "How do you know?"... what do you think your girlfriends like hanging out with gay men so much. We know everything about you

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:28 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Every woman I know has shared this information with me said they rarly get orgasms from intercourse unless the clit is being stimulated with something else.

99% of them say oral is what works best.

Well, my wife must be weird I guess…

She has never managed to have an orgasm clitorally either alone or with oral sex. She has during intercourse (due to superior "angling"

).

Generally it is a vaginal experience for her, either A or G.

Maybe it's my SUPERIOR cock.

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Here is some nice info from abstinence sites. Pretty much it will lead you to murder someone.

What is masturbation?

A: Masturbation is the name given to sexual stimulation of oneself. Medical terminology of previous decades used the term "self abuse." The term is not far off the mark if one considers that abuse of anything is the use of it in a manner not intended or not reflecting its nature.

Self stimulation relies heavily on the use of pornography. Pornography and graphic imagery usually fuel the desire to act out sexually rather than repressing it. As evidence, witness the spate of child sexual murders committed by adults. Over 85% of the crime scene investigations discover pornography, according the United States Department of Justice.

Masturbation is addictive. The capturing of the imagination during self stimulation is habit-forming. As a result, some people come to prefer self stimulation to actual intercourse. This explains why even married people often continue in a pattern of pornography and masturbation.

It is very easy for teens to get into a habit of masturbation that precludes them from doing more productive things that will add to the success in their lives. Besides being a waste of time, it trains the body to respond to self more than other people.

Sex is a physical and spiritual exchange between two people, a progressive bonding experience, an expression of intimacy. The marriage will not endure if one is more interested in self than one's spouse.

John R. Diggs, Jr., MD

http://www.abstinencedu.com/explore.cfm/viewqanda/

"Catholicism
The Catechism of the Catholic Church lists masturbation as one of the "Offenses Against Chastity" and calls it "an intrinsically and gravely disordered action" because "use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose." Indulging in the act, in this case, is considered more immoral than the act itself."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masturbation

Wow....that first site is seriously screwed up. And remember that Catholics have two pillars: The Bible, and Tradition. They have a habit of making rules that aren't backed up by scripture. Even UBER NEO-NAZI CONSERVATIVEOMGLOL!!!1!11 Focus on the Family says masturbation's okay.

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:29 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Well, my wife must be weird I guess…

She has never managed to have an orgasm clitorally either alone or with oral sex. She has during intercourse (due to superior "angling"

).

Generally it is a vaginal experience for her, either A or G.

Maybe it's my SUPERIOR cock.

Right.

"I asked 37 women if they have ever "faked it," what percentage of the time they think they "fake it" and if they think that guys are fooled by it. I asked 26 men if they thought women faked orgasms and how often they thought this happened. In the first female interview I conducted, the girl said, "I fake it every time." In the first male interview I conducted, the guy said, "I think faking it is probably pretty rare."

Ninety-two percent of the girls said they have faked or exaggerated an orgasm at least once.

Out of the guys, 51 percent said that they don't think a girl has ever faked it when with them, 26 percent said that they think "maybe" a girl has faked it, but they "doubt it" and 23 percent of guys said that they think that girls have faked it with them. "

http://www.campustimes.org/media/sto...ampustimes.org

My own inquiries seem to match this.

I know, I know, you can tell and you are sure your wife isn't.

Dakar · Jul 14, 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by smacintush

Well, my wife must be weird I guess…

They are rare. One of my favorite aspects of my first girlfriend.

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 02:31 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Right.

"I asked 37 women if they have ever "faked it," what percentage of the time they think they "fake it" and if they think that guys are fooled by it. I asked 26 men if they thought women faked orgasms and how often they thought this happened. In the first female interview I conducted, the girl said, "I fake it every time." In the first male interview I conducted, the guy said, "I think faking it is probably pretty rare."

Ninety-two percent of the girls said they have faked or exaggerated an orgasm at least once.

Out of the guys, 51 percent said that they don't think a girl has ever faked it when with them, 26 percent said that they think "maybe" a girl has faked it, but they "doubt it" and 23 percent of guys said that they think that girls have faked it with them. "

http://www.campustimes.org/media/sto...ampustimes.org

My own inquiries seem to match this.

I know, I know, you can tell and you are sure your wife isn't.

If she was going to fake it wouldn't it make sense to fake it when it's more likely to happen, aka oral?

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:34 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

If she was going to fake it wouldn't it make sense to fake it when it's more likely to happen, aka oral?

Huh?

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:35 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

I know, I know, you can tell and you are sure your wife isn't.

No, I'm not going to tell you that I'm sure of that. I really don't know.

I DO know that I really don't mind if she fakes it and I am secure enough not to "need" her to. I have performed poorly enough, often enough that I really have no REASON to believe she fakes it, and we have been together for 17 years, since I was 16 years old.

smacintush · Jul 14, 2006, 02:37 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

If she was going to fake it wouldn't it make sense to fake it when it's more likely to happen, aka oral?

I would think so, but either I am just horrible at oral or she just ain't into it 'cuz believe me, there's not a lot "excitement" that could be interpreted as faking anything…

SkirtmanMcSkirt · Jul 14, 2006, 02:42 PM

I would think if you're married you're in a close enough relationship not to fake things. :|

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 02:44 PM

Originally Posted by SkirtmanMcSkirt

I would think if you're married you're in a close enough relationship not to fake things. :|

Booya

Anywho, this site is cool:

http://www.sexisforfags.com/

King Bob On The Cob · Jul 14, 2006, 03:13 PM

Originally Posted by Landos Mustache

Good think you both had the same experience (or lack of) or it would have ended quick. Guess you are one of the lucky few.

Everyone's gotta lose their virginity sometimes...

I don't know, my g/f had two sexual partners before me, who had banged alot before her, but she says they sucked.

Experience in bed does not automatically make you a good sexual partner. You have to be willing to give in sex. That's what will make you a good partner.

Jawbone54 · Jul 14, 2006, 03:15 PM

My wife and I each had dozens of opportunities for sex with other people before we met and were eventually married, but never took them. We had each educated ourselves on the risks involved with premarital sex, and made the decision on both a physical and spiritual level.

I realize that not everyone shares my religious beliefs, so I'll omit those from this post.

My wife and I knew that we wouldn't be susceptible to STDs, unwanted pregnancies, emotional attachments that we could never break, and other psyhological or physical repercussions. The two of us are proof that abstinence is absolutely possible. Our personal sexual lives are being developed together, just as our emotional and spiritual connection are being developed in our lives together. I can't tell you how much pride it gives me to know that I'm my wife's only sexual experience, and vice versa.

I know not everyone wants to live their lives this way, but I couldn't recommend it enough to a young adult who is making personal sexual decisions.

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 03:18 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

My wife and I knew that we wouldn't be susceptible to STDs, unwanted pregnancies, emotional attachments that we could never break, and other psyhological or physical repercussions. The two of us are proof that abstinence is absolutely possible. Our personal sexual lives are being developed together, just as our emotional and spiritual connection are being developed in our lives together. I can't tell you how much pride it gives me to know that I'm my wife's only sexual experience, and vice versa.

I think they managed to address each and every one of your pros to abstinence in that video and completely disregarded them.

I definitely agree with you and I think when my girlfriend and I get married it's going to be amazing

But they did say that 1 in 4 adolescents has an STD. I imagine that number would drop if there was more abstinence.

Dakar · Jul 14, 2006, 03:21 PM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

I imagine that number would drop if there was more abstinence.

I imagine that number would drop if more used a condom properly, too.

Gossamer · Jul 14, 2006, 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

I imagine that number would drop if more used a condom properly, too.

What was the standard for sex ed before 'bush's' abstinence programs?

Landos Mustache · Jul 14, 2006, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

My wife and I knew that we wouldn't be susceptible to STDs, unwanted pregnancies, emotional attachments that we could never break, and other psyhological or physical repercussions.

Spoken like someone who has little experience.

You wanna fill us in on that one?

Because I have sex with someone I am prone to "unbreakable emotional attachments and psychological or physical repercussions"?

You want to talk about what psychological or physical repercussions happen with Abstinence or lack of education?

But like they said in the video, I shouldn't get in a car because I an making myself prone to death.

" Our personal sexual lives are being developed together, just as our emotional and spiritual connection are being developed in our lives together. I can't tell you how much pride it gives me to know that I'm my wife's only sexual experience, and vice versa."

Are you also saying people who have sex before marriage DON'T experience those things?

Why do you have insecurities... sorry I mean "Pride" in your wife only getting it from you? Do you feel that other men would have tainted her physically or emotionally even if they are STD free?

Jawbone54 · Jul 14, 2006, 03:23 PM

Originally Posted by Dakar

I imagine that number would drop if more used a condom properly, too.

A doctor once told me that asking a condom to prevent the transferral of an STD is like throwing a marble throw a basketball hoop and hoping the net catches it. He knew and I know that the statement was a bit of an exaggeration, but the point was made.