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blackstar · Jul 14, 2006, 11:21 PM

so i finally got sick of watching commercials and decided to get tivo so i can watch movies whenever and forward live tv and all that...
well as I looked deeper into it, I got turned off by bad mac support, the fact that you cant edit recordings before burning to TV.
But in the end I realized that subscription cost 12-19$ a moth which amounts up to 144-200$ a year or around 400$ bucks in 3 years...
well then I thought that I could get a PC for those 400$ and add a whole lot more then just TV functionality, like dvd playback, web streaming content on the TV, downloading divx and watching it on the TV...

well so I ordered the parts from Newegg with a nice case that goes with my other boxes...
in the end it came out at 520$, which is a Mac Mini, but well I don't need another Mac...

the only thing that now worries me is that i don't have a pc monitor, i am praying that the tv out on my new video card will work right out of the box...

haha the other worry is that my new TV system is going to crash all day, well ill try to load very little software on it, maybe ill be able to keep it stable ;-)

so yeah thats it, I have to add that I definitely hate PCs and Windows, but love messing around with it, and building them together, so lets see how this turns out...parts will be herer in 3 business days!!

jokell82 · Jul 15, 2006, 12:43 AM

Originally Posted by blackstar

haha the other worry is that my new TV system is going to crash all day, well ill try to load very little software on it, maybe ill be able to keep it stable ;-)

So load linux on there and make it a MythTV box. It's better than anything you'd be running on Windows anyway...

Mastrap · Jul 15, 2006, 06:32 AM

Why didn't you just order an Intel Mac Mini? That way you can run whatever you need.

screamingFit · Jul 15, 2006, 07:27 AM

You could of saved more money and just bought a used XBOX, modded it and ran XBOX Media Center on it.

A Mini running MediaCentral software would be pretty cool, too, but expensive just to watch video on a TV.

But a stock Windows PC...meh, I don't know. It's not really a plug and play solution.

memory-minus · Jul 15, 2006, 07:35 AM

Originally Posted by blackstar

the only thing that now worries me is that i don't have a pc monitor, i am praying that the tv out on my new video card will work right out of the box...

Plug n' Pray!

RAILhead · Jul 15, 2006, 09:10 AM

HAHAHA!

blackstar · Jul 15, 2006, 09:49 AM

i wish i could do linux, but i am not sure if i am able to set that up...
about the xbox post, xbox media center is very limited, you cant pause and ff live tv, cant record shows, cant burn on dvd....and it still would cost 100$ for a used xbox, plus hd cost plus mod chip, it would be half the price but not even half the functionality...

blackstar · Jul 15, 2006, 11:20 AM

Originally Posted by jokell82

So load linux on there and make it a MythTV box. It's better than anything you'd be running on Windows anyway...

you know what, I decided to go with Linux...
stability shoudl be the base of every system!

Cody Dawg · Jul 15, 2006, 11:33 AM

We need one of Kevin's pirate pics right about now...

Well, it was nice knowing you for a while, blackstar.

Guess you won't be posting here for much longer if you're going to be on a PC. Between boot-up time and technical support time you'll be otherwise occupied.

blackstar · Jul 15, 2006, 12:38 PM

are you crazy?
this is only going to be a PVR,
of course ill keep my powerbook, for real computer work

jokell82 · Jul 15, 2006, 02:57 PM

Originally Posted by blackstar

you know what, I decided to go with Linux...
stability shoudl be the base of every system!

If you're unsure at all just try KnoppMyth:
http://www.mysettopbox.tv/knoppmyth.html

It's just a CD, so if you decide to do something else all you have to do is take the CD out.

bstone · Jul 15, 2006, 10:57 PM

you come to a mac site to boast about your purchase of a windoze pc? ummm......

rickey939 · Jul 15, 2006, 11:33 PM

Totally rad kewl.�

production_coordinator · Jul 15, 2006, 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

you come to a mac site to boast about your purchase of a windoze pc? ummm......

Seems to be a new theme here...

blackstar · Jul 15, 2006, 11:53 PM

well guys, sorry then...
i just thought other people were also interested in hearing pvr/htpc stories...
besides isn't this the lounge...
thanks for the tip jokell,
ill try to put it up myself in fedora 10...

Dale Sorel · Jul 16, 2006, 01:19 AM

Originally Posted by blackstar

so i finally got sick of watching commercials and decided to get tivo so i can watch movies whenever and forward live tv and all that...
well as I looked deeper into it, I got turned off by bad mac support, the fact that you cant edit recordings before burning to TV.
But in the end I realized that subscription cost 12-19$ a moth which amounts up to 144-200$ a year or around 400$ bucks in 3 years...

I can't comment on the subscription cost as I have lifetime on my unit, but what I can comment on is the fact that TiVo rocks and you'll never get the same functionality out of a home-built PeeCee no matter what you think

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Jul 16, 2006, 04:55 AM

Originally Posted by blackstar

well guys, sorry then...
i just thought other people were also interested in hearing pvr/htpc stories...
besides isn't this the lounge...

Don’t sweat it. Sometimes the platform insecurity some Mac users can display is downright embarrassing, this thread’s display of shameless naysaying a classic example.

Rather than contribute anything useful or positive to a subject, it’s easier to fall back on “Micro$oft and PeeCeez are teh suck!” tedium as something of an auto-response. Original, isn’t it?

Usually the stock “I hate da Pee Cees toooo!” apology statement (a practice which you DID observe) grants a temporary pass to freely discuss the hardware/software universe beyond that which is sanctioned by the high holy church of Jobs, without the “non-conformist guilt trip” being applicable. So I have to call bad form on a pass not being granted in this instance!

Anyway…

Yes, you can set up a very capable HTPC using *gasp* Windows and decent hardware. You just have to be able to learn to use something (properly) other than a Mac, and not blindly fear it.

I have several HTPCs that operate flawlessly and are Windows based. The benefits are hardware cost-effectiveness, an abundance of useful HT applications, and if you have HDTV, the ability to achieve stunning image quality with tools like powerstrip, ffdshow and descaler.

TV out should work fine for monitoring the PC. If you use XP, you can set up Remote Desktop (get the Mac client) and use it to control your HTPC. For Linux, rdesktop and a terminal server client will do the same, or a VNC server/client.

I’d highly recommend setting up Wake On Lan in the BIOS. You can hibernate or even full shut down a system and have it awaken only to record shows, or when you send it a wake event, locally or remotely.

What PVR card did you get for your system? A good one like the Hauppauge line are key- it’s best to have hardware encoding so the processor isn’t taxed- especially with a cheaper system.

For software, I’ve had excellent results with Beyond TV. It’s not free, but for me, the bottom line was that it passes the “wife can use it” test, and it has been 100% reliable. It has a great feature set, the guide data is excellent, and setting up recordings is a snap both locally and remotely.

Personally, I hate the MCE XP as an option, as there are just too many limitations, as can be expected of Microsoft. The fact that it doesn’t encode to DVD compatible MPEG format is just stupid to me- one of the major bennies of an HTPC is going straight to DVD.

GBPVR is free, but I haven’t used it so I can’t comment.

For Linux, there are pre-configured MythTV versions of LiveCD distros, like KnoppMyth- I guess the premise is that someone has done most of the install, setup and configure work of MythTV for you. I have no idea how that stacks up against do-it-yourself MythTV, as I’ve never used it.

Don’t sweat the platform war peer-pressure nonsense- let us know what you set up.

blackstar · Jul 16, 2006, 06:45 AM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Don’t sweat it. Sometimes the platform insecurity some Mac users can display is downright embarrassing, this thread’s display of shameless naysaying a classic example.

Rather than contribute anything useful or positive to a subject, it’s easier to fall back on “Micro$oft and PeeCeez are teh suck!” tedium as something of an auto-response. Original, isn’t it?

Usually the stock “I hate da Pee Cees toooo!” apology statement (a practice which you DID observe) grants a temporary pass to freely discuss the hardware/software universe beyond that which is sanctioned by the high holy church of Jobs, without the “non-conformist guilt trip” being applicable. So I have to call bad form on a pass not being granted in this instance!

Anyway…

Yes, you can set up a very capable HTPC using *gasp* Windows and decent hardware. You just have to be able to learn to use something (properly) other than a Mac, and not blindly fear it.

I have several HTPCs that operate flawlessly and are Windows based. The benefits are hardware cost-effectiveness, an abundance of useful HT applications, and if you have HDTV, the ability to achieve stunning image quality with tools like powerstrip, ffdshow and descaler.

TV out should work fine for monitoring the PC. If you use XP, you can set up Remote Desktop (get the Mac client) and use it to control your HTPC. For Linux, rdesktop and a terminal server client will do the same, or a VNC server/client.

I’d highly recommend setting up Wake On Lan in the BIOS. You can hibernate or even full shut down a system and have it awaken only to record shows, or when you send it a wake event, locally or remotely.

What PVR card did you get for your system? A good one like the Hauppauge line are key- it’s best to have hardware encoding so the processor isn’t taxed- especially with a cheaper system.

For software, I’ve had excellent results with Beyond TV. It’s not free, but for me, the bottom line was that it passes the “wife can use it” test, and it has been 100% reliable. It has a great feature set, the guide data is excellent, and setting up recordings is a snap both locally and remotely.

Personally, I hate the MCE XP as an option, as there are just too many limitations, as can be expected of Microsoft. The fact that it doesn’t encode to DVD compatible MPEG format is just stupid to me- one of the major bennies of an HTPC is going straight to DVD.

GBPVR is free, but I haven’t used it so I can’t comment.

For Linux, there are pre-configured MythTV versions of LiveCD distros, like KnoppMyth- I guess the premise is that someone has done most of the install, setup and configure work of MythTV for you. I have no idea how that stacks up against do-it-yourself MythTV, as I’ve never used it.

Don’t sweat the platform war peer-pressure nonsense- let us know what you set up.

well yeah I am trying to go the Myth TV way, set up fedora core on my own and put myth tv on top.
theres somethings i want to do with it, that i haven't seen on other peoples projects, like for example edit commercials out and burn to dvd, the other is play streaming videos and make em work like tv channels, so i can start them just using the remote, and finally download and play mpg4/divx...
so yeah theres a lot i want to do which isn't possible when going the tivo way...
I ordered the haupauge pvr 150, once set up ill think ill get another one, just for having dual tuner!

If I am not able to set it up on linux, i will go with XP and Beyond TV. Using windows ive seen people integrate streaming video in the media center and burning dvd's would be easy too...
lets see how it works out, i should get all my hardware mid next week

vmarks · Jul 16, 2006, 07:11 AM

Win MCE is for the most part very nice. They did the guide decently. They did 'learning the set top box remote' for remote blasting very nicely.

With HDTV, they didn't bother to display the sub-channels, which is odd. I have to check it again to see what was up with that.

There was a patch to make it save in MPEG instead of WMV.

BeyondTV is very nice.

KnoppMyth is NOT (at least the last time I tried it) a matter of simply putting in the CD and that's that.

KnoppMyth is rather a CD that you put in, install to the hard drive, and then spend a few hours configuring the backend, database, etc. It's easier than doing it step by step on Fedora, but it's not as simple as some people are making it out.

On Macintosh, Equinux's MediaCentral 2.x only supports European DVB-T tuners. The earlier version did support some analog PAL/NTSC tuners from El Gato. MediaCentral attempts to replace Front Row and be a TV tuner in addition. It does a decent job at this task.

On Macintosh, EyeTV is pretty good. It's not the immersive experience of MCE, the guide is not full screen- you know you're using a Mac, but you can control the whole thing nicely from the remote included with the tuner. Between that and Front Row, it's an ok combination. Burning DVDs from it is a two-click operation if you have Toast 7 installed. One click to send the recording to Toast, one click in Toast to initiate the burning.

EyeTV does allow editing of commercials without leaving its interface. It also does remote scheduling, which means the ability to go to titantv.com and anywhere you have web access, schedule a recording to take place. The computer with the tuner at home polls the website and picks up the new scheduled item and records it unattended. -- TiVO can only do this with some serious hackery.

My tuner hardware:
On PC: ATI HDTV Wonder, PC HDTV 3000 (linux)
On Mac: Miglia.com TVMicro, TVMini HD

blackstar · Jul 16, 2006, 07:31 AM

yeah...well im kind of reluctant to windows, because of stability issues, but im aware that the setup is really easy on windows...
i didnt think of a mac, because its not going to be used like a computer, it will sit below the TV and ill try to completely avoid keyboard and mouse...

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Jul 16, 2006, 03:35 PM

Originally Posted by blackstar

theres somethings i want to do with it, that i haven't seen on other peoples projects, like for example edit commercials out and burn to dvd, the other is play streaming videos and make em work like tv channels, so i can start them just using the remote, and finally download and play mpg4/divx...

Not sure what is available for Linux, but for Windows I used to use Womble Mulitmedia to edit out commercials. It's the fastest tool I know of that can quick-scan an MPEG recording, chop out the commercials and recompile with no re-encoding time. That worked great, but I've since shifted back to simply setting DVD chapter menus past each set of commercials. In practice it achives the same end, and takes virtually no time at all.

For streaming a personal lineup the way you describe, you might look into a freeware media server like TVersity, and any UPnP device. I find it the best for streaming content to virtually any media device, and it's one of those apps that's amazing is still free.

If I am not able to set it up on linux, i will go with XP and Beyond TV. Using windows ive seen people integrate streaming video in the media center and burning dvd's would be easy too...

For me, ease of use and tons of options has been the main objective, and despite all the FUD and hype to the contrary, a Windows based solution has delivered that. HTPC duty is one thing Windows actually does do very well. And my systems do multi-service as gaming and basic file storage with no problems. I haven't yet had reason to delve into setting up Linux to do the same things, but I'm sure it'd be a fun challenge.

demograph68 · Jul 16, 2006, 04:49 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Don’t sweat it. Sometimes the platform insecurity some Mac users can display is downright embarrassing, this thread’s display of shameless naysaying a classic example.

Rather than contribute anything useful or positive to a subject, it’s easier to fall back on “Micro$oft and PeeCeez are teh suck!” tedium as something of an auto-response. Original, isn’t it?

You can ignore this but that was what I was thinking too. Big ****ing deal if it ain't a Mac. All that talk about OMG VIRUS, LOL SPYWARE, TECH SUPPORT!...etc. really gets on my nerves. Windows is actually not so hard to tame if you know how to use it right. Ugh.... ok, carry on.

imitchellg5 · Jul 16, 2006, 04:58 PM

A PC! OMG! AUGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH. I'm gonna die!

vmarks · Jul 16, 2006, 08:03 PM

Well, it was annoying when the 'tv' used to crash under windows.

Since it's a mac mini, no problem. No keyboard or mouse attached. Just the remote.

blackstar · Jul 16, 2006, 08:35 PM

well yeah I decided to go with linux, so now its kinda my powerbooks cousin...
i chose the linux way now, because its probably more time consuming and thus fun..,
thanks for the input CRASH HARDDRIVE, as already said if i dont succed with linux ill go with MCE!
and thanks for the support demograph68, i mean i can still be a supporter of apple even though I own a regular PC, anyhow with the migration to Intel doesn't a Mac count now as a PC too?

Gamoe · Jul 17, 2006, 10:49 AM

Originally Posted by Dale Sorel

I can't comment on the subscription cost as I have lifetime on my unit, but what I can comment on is the fact that TiVo rocks and you'll never get the same functionality out of a home-built PeeCee no matter what you think

Tivo is great. Fees for the honor of using a glorified digital VCR to record TV are not. Also the lifetime cost is not transferable to another unit, so you'll have to pay that again when you want to get a new unit.

Interesting multi-platform info, vmarks.

I totally support the Linux Box PVR solution. It's something I've been thinking about doing myself.

Tell us how it goes, blackstar.

Gossamer · Jul 17, 2006, 11:23 AM

I built myself a little PC a couple weeks ago for fun and I think I'll use it for this, as it sounds ideal, if I can get my hands on a suitable TV Tuner. It's a P4/2.66GHz/1GB/160GB HD, cost me $250. It's in a Beige G3 minitower case right now, but I'm looking at a better one, preferably something that would look at home in a home theater setup, but I'm not looking to spend much. Antec makes some beautiful cases, but they cost a bit more than I'm willing to spend.

I might fab my own out of an old home theater receiver....we'll see.

blackstar · Jul 17, 2006, 10:19 PM

i went with this case (in black) its the most expensive part of my setup, but I figured making it look like a real vcr just looks so much better afterwards...cost 100$, the whole system althogether cost 550$

blackstar · Jul 17, 2006, 10:31 PM

well my picture got taken out, but you can take a look at the case here:
http://www.nmediapc.com/htpc100a.htm

hadocon · Jul 17, 2006, 11:57 PM

Let us know bout your experience with it. Positive or negative, and why?

Don't ppl usually buy a tivo for convenience? How much effort are you going to have to put into this thing?

Do you want to dick around on a computer or vege out in front of the tv? Are you going to be the only person who can operate this thing? or can your girlfriend just grab teh remote and swithc to America's Next Top Model?

Is it a TV or is it a computer?

I'm interested to hear your opinions/thoughts

blackstar · Jul 18, 2006, 07:38 AM

well its gonna be controllable with just a remote, just like a tivo...
i didnt go the tivo way, because 12$ a moth is just too expensive, plus they cant burn dvds, cant edit out commercials, cant play streaming content, cant play downloaded videos, cant play content from you dv cam....
once you have it up and running, you dont have to worry about setup anymore...

Gossamer · Jul 18, 2006, 09:39 AM

But the setup and run is the fun part!

blackstar · Jul 18, 2006, 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Gossamer

But the setup and run is the fun part!

yeah definitely....
and its something new for a Mac user...usually "our" hardware works out the box..but this is supposed to be a toy not workhorse

Gossamer · Jul 18, 2006, 11:46 AM

Originally Posted by blackstar

yeah definitely....
and its something new for a Mac user...usually "our" hardware works out the box..but this is supposed to be a toy not workhorse

I'm exactly where you are. First PC, first computer running Windows (unless I go with Linux), so yeah. Pretty cool stuff.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Jul 18, 2006, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by blackstar

well my picture got taken out, but you can take a look at the case here:
http://www.nmediapc.com/htpc100a.htm

Nice that the case has a low noise rating- noise and heat are the main enemy of any HTPC that's in open view. I stashed mine in closets completely out of sight and earshot so I didn't have to worry about the noise factor and could just tackle heat. Don't skimp on quality case/cpu/gpu fans that are as silent as possible. It's well worth just a little extra dough in those depts.

Gossamer · Jul 18, 2006, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by CRASH HARDDRIVE

Nice that the case has a low noise rating- noise and heat are the main enemy of any HTPC that's in open view. I stashed mine in closets completely out of sight and earshot so I didn't have to worry about the noise factor and could just tackle heat. Don't skimp on quality case/cpu/gpu fans that are as silent as possible. It's well worth just a little extra dough in those depts.

I JUST won one of these on eBay. Antec Overture
My roommate though I was weird for calling it 'sexy' but I think it is! Plus it will be tons quiet than his homemade Athlon. Our other roommate and I are getting him a new CPU fan for his birthday, his current one is soooo loud, and it sits right next to our tv.

blackstar · Jul 18, 2006, 04:52 PM

well if your roomates pc is loud, then it probably doesnt matter how loud yours is...
exept if your the kind of roomates that dont share a room, but an appartment ;-)
well i didnt pay attention to the loudness factor of my cpu cooler...but I might try running iit without a cooler at all...its an arctic by the way..

KeriVit · Jul 18, 2006, 09:14 PM

Yay You!

JoshuaZ · Jul 18, 2006, 09:29 PM

Here to it working! Best of luck. I know from experience how tough it can be (sometimes) to get it all working right.

CRASH HARDDRIVE · Jul 18, 2006, 10:57 PM

Originally Posted by blackstar

well i didnt pay attention to the loudness factor of my cpu cooler...but I might try running iit without a cooler at all...

Chances are if you actually try this, you'll have a critical system failure within seconds and permanant damage (if the system doesn't shut itself down first) within a minute or less. Don't even try running a modern CPU without cooling unless you're suicidal with your equipment.

blackstar · Jul 19, 2006, 08:42 AM

okay thanks for the tip, I googled and found a nice quiet cpu cooler, my motherboard and vga are all passive coolers...so this is hopefully going to be nica and quiet