[Saetre]

I just thought I would warn you all about the permanent damage that SSRI antidepressents can cause. I wish someone would have warned me back in the day...

From this article: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSSD

One or more of the following symptoms persist or begin after the discontinuation of SSRIs.
Decreased or absent libido
Impotence or reduced vaginal lubrication
Difficulty initiating or maintaining an erection or becoming aroused
Muted, delayed or absent orgasm (anorgasmia)
Reduced experience of pleasure during orgasm (ejaculatory anhedonia)
Weakened penile, vaginal or clitoral sensitivity
Genital anesthesia
Loss or decreased response to sexual stimuli

[baw]

I love the smell of wood in the morning.

[Kevin]

I took zoloft for a week. Never again. It actually gave me painfully hard erections and made it so it was even harder to get off.

GF was amused however.

After about 2 days after I stopped taking it everything went back to normal.

Also had strange dreams on it.

[ghporter]

Some SSRIs may cause dysfunctions in some people and in relation to some conditions. Look at it this way: some people feel so depressed that not having sex for a while is not an issue.

As a former "second generation" SSRI patient (Welbutrin), I had much HIGHER libido and better sexual response BECAUSE OF the drug. I was no longer so depressed, and thus I could function as a human being again. It's a tradeoff with some patients, particularly those with serious and chronic depression.

[Salty]

I refuse to take meds. Most people take them instead of dealing with the problems they're having. Which means the problems never go away which means they're stuck on meds being someone other than themselves. My Dad I think takes antidepressants though I dono if he still does. And it's like... why don't you just tell your wife to stop nagging you! They're in counselling now though so I think things are getting better.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Some SSRIs may cause dysfunctions in some people and in relation to some conditions. Look at it this way: some people feel so depressed that not having sex for a while is not an issue.

As a former "second generation" SSRI patient (Welbutrin), I had much HIGHER libido and better sexual response BECAUSE OF the drug. I was no longer so depressed, and thus I could function as a human being again. It's a tradeoff with some patients, particularly those with serious and chronic depression.

Correct. I think they are over-prescribed however. The thing is, someone that was mildly depressed and was put on these things could become even more so because of the side effects.

These are given to people that have RATIONAL reasons for being depressed instead of chemical imbalances. I don't agree with that usage.

IMHO.

Sometimes you NEED to be depressed about certain things.

Those pills make some people emotional zombies.

[ghporter]

Once a depressed state has existed for long enough, it is no longer situational; it BECOMES a chemical imbalance. Happened to me, in fact. But I agree that there are some doctors out there with a pretty free prescription writing hand when it comes to all sorts of medications, antidepressants among them.

There are many non-psychotherapeutic uses for SSRIs, as well. Typically these uses are at much lower doses than used for depression. I think the big issue is dosage and length of drug therapy. Too long on just about anything that alters brain chemistry is a Bad Thing®.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Some SSRIs may cause dysfunctions in some people and in relation to some conditions. Look at it this way: some people feel so depressed that not having sex for a while is not an issue.

As a former "second generation" SSRI patient (Welbutrin), I had much HIGHER libido and better sexual response BECAUSE OF the drug. I was no longer so depressed, and thus I could function as a human being again. It's a tradeoff with some patients, particularly those with serious and chronic depression.

The reason you didn't experience problems with Wellbutrin is because it is not an SSRI. It is a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (as opposed to a selective serotonin reuptate inhibitor). Welbutrin is actually regarded as a great alternative to SSRIs because it allows people to continue functioning sexually. It even enhances functioning for a number of people, including some concurrently taking SSRIs. Unfortunately it caused me to run into walls and become agitated and a bit hyper.

All SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction in most people. Some like Paxil and Zoloft are worse than others. In some people these problems are permanent and can last indefinitely after ceasing the medication. I don't think many people would consider this a good tradeoff when safer (at least in regards to sexual health) alternatives like Welbutrin exist.

[lpkmckenna]

Another important fact: Zoloft is also prescribed as treatment for premature ejaculation. I'm certain the number of individuals who have been successfully treated with this far outnumber those who suffer from PSSD.

I'm not sure what your motive here is, Saetre. All medications have side-effects. The chances of permanent sexual disfunction are really, really low, especially when compared to the overall positive results of SSRIs as treatment for mood disorders. The linked wikipedia page only mentions 4 case studies, for instance.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Salty

I refuse to take meds. Most people take them instead of dealing with the problems they're having. Which means the problems never go away which means they're stuck on meds being someone other than themselves.

The purpose of anti-depressants is not to cure depression. The purpose is to lift the depression enough so the individual can then learn coping strategies for depression (like cognitive behaviour therapy).

Individuals who are seriously depressed often cannot focus enough to learn coping strategies. Medication may help make learning and coping possible.

[lpkmckenna]

I smell a rat: http://ssri-side-effects.com/doctors/

Several of these doctors are associated with the Church of Scientology.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

The purpose of anti-depressants is not to cure depression. The purpose is to lift the depression enough so the individual can then learn coping strategies for depression (like cognitive behaviour therapy).

Individuals who are seriously depressed often cannot focus enough to learn coping strategies. Medication may help make learning and coping possible.

Too many doctors however only use it as a treatment.

Esp the socialized mental health clinics. Rush you in and out.

I have a blind friend that went through it all. Horrible

And BTW I am not anti-psychology.

I just think medication is over-prescribed and put too much emphasis on.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Another important fact: Zoloft is also prescribed as treatment for premature ejaculation. I'm certain the number of individuals who have been successfully treated with this far outnumber those who suffer from PSSD.

I'm not sure what your motive here is, Saetre. All medications have side-effects. The chances of permanent sexual disfunction are really, really low, especially when compared to the overall positive results of SSRIs as treatment for mood disorders. The linked wikipedia page only mentions 4 case studies, for instance.

I don't know the incidence of PSSD but I believe it is probably fairly significant when the severity of the "side effect" is taken into account. The support group has 722 members and has only been around for 1-1/2 years. It is also darn hard to find. I searched for years and just discovered it a week ago. And I am a very experienced web surfer.

My motivation is just to let people know that it is possible that SSRIs will cause these problems. I'm not sure if I would have taken them in the first place if I'd know about this possible "side effect". It's quite frustrating.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

I smell a rat: http://ssri-side-effects.com/doctors/

Several of these doctors are associated with the Church of Scientology.

I haven't looked at that website, but the main function of the support group mailing list is to find medications that can relieve the symptoms of PSSD. It's most certainly not Scientologist and I highly doubt the Wikipedia article is either (although it does seem a little biased and unprofessional).

[jcadam]

A doctor put my wife on Prozac to counteract the 'bitch' inducing effects of her birth control pills (yea, the BC made her emotionally wacky -- and she was crying in the doctor's office about how she was being mean to her husband) anyway, she took the Prozac for two weeks (in addition to the BC) and while it took the edge off the bitchiness, it also killed her libido - we only had sex a few times in that two week period

So I told her to stop taking both drugs, and all was well -- until she got pregnant. 3. times

But then she ordered me to get fixed so it's not an issue.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Saetre

The reason you didn't experience problems with Wellbutrin is because it is not an SSRI. It is a dopamine and norepinephrine reuptake inhibitor (as opposed to a selective serotonin reuptate inhibitor). Welbutrin is actually regarded as a great alternative to SSRIs because it allows people to continue functioning sexually. It even enhances functioning for a number of people, including some concurrently taking SSRIs. Unfortunately it caused me to run into walls and become agitated and a bit hyper.

The patient literature on Wellbutrin listed potential side effects including sexual dysfunction, though it wasn't listed as a common side effect.. Also, I didn't characterize Wellbutrin properly (should have been "second generation antidepressant"), but my point was still true: if the depression is deep enough, SSRIs can't hurt sexual functioning-because there isn't any. And with correct dosing, (the real catch here) the amount os SSRI effect can be moderated to control the depression without excessive side effects. My point was more toward "my sexual functioning was depressed by the depression, and when that was relieved, 'functionality was restored'." I wasn't clear then, but I was working on supper and distracted. Sorry.

Originally Posted by Saetre

All SSRIs cause sexual dysfunction in most people. Some like Paxil and Zoloft are worse than others. In some people these problems are permanent and can last indefinitely after ceasing the medication. I don't think many people would consider this a good tradeoff when safer (at least in regards to sexual health) alternatives like Welbutrin exist.

SSRIs tend to sustain levels of serotonin at the cost of somehow decreasing dopamine levels-and dopamine is associated with "normal" sex drive and functioning. What Wellbutrin seems to do is sustain dopamine levels, producing an elevated mood (why do you think they call it 'dopamine?' ) and NOT hurting sexuality. But in most patients with depression, sexuality is nearly nonexistent anyway, so relieving the depression cannot help but HELP sexuality. Again, the key is proper dosing levels. My doctor had me complete a very thorough questionaire before EVERY weekly visit so he could gage my depression and how the meds were working; it took only minutes of the actual appointment time for him to review this material and judge what it meant; why can't other docs take this time? I'll tell you: mine was a shrink in a residency (and that means he was being supervised) while most docs that prescribe antidepressants are NOT. They're overwhelmingly GPs and other non-psych physicians. This is the crux of the "side effect" issue; they can't spend the time to properly monitor their antidepressant patients, and so they leave them with loading doses for extended periods of time.

Finally, I should have noted that the referenced source for the begining of this thread was a Wikipedia article... Hardly authoritative, right? I question the so-called permanence of the dysfunction effect mainly because of the source cited. Does anyone have a GOOD source about the long-term effects of SSRI usage? Something with peer-reviewed evidence?

[Spliff]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

I smell a rat: http://ssri-side-effects.com/doctors/

Several of these doctors are associated with the Church of Scientology.

Which doctors?

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Spliff

Which doctors?

Baughman and Szasz. And Breggin was previously associated with CCHR, but no longer.

Several more of these guys are untrustworthy as well:

"Doctor" Sahelian is a snake-oil saleman with his own "remedies" for illness. He's not a physician, he's a nutritionist. Would you trust a guy that writes books like "Natural Sex Boosters" or drugs like "Eyesight Rx -- for healthy vision, results sometimes seen within hours" ??? See: http://www.raysahelian.com/books.html

David Healy is also a one-trick pony, with a predilection for Big Pharma-bashing.

Vernon Coleman is an animal rights activist who writes novels about cats. A few of his other crackpot causes: anti-flouridation of water, and vaccinations cause brain damage.

A quote from Coleman: "In my view every doctor who prescribes such drugs for children with alleged ADHD should be defrocked, given a good thrashing with genetically engineered stinging nettles and forced to emigrate to the USA."

Another quote from Coleman: "There is no longer any doubt about the fact that eating meat is bad for your health. "

This list of doctors is a real gold-mine of quacks.

[Stratus Wrong]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I took zoloft for a week. Never again. It actually gave me painfully hard erections and made it so it was even harder to get off.

GF was amused however.

You aren't married? Huh. Guess you're going to hell then. That's what the bible says anyway.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Stratus Wrong

You aren't married? Huh. Guess you're going to hell then. That's what the bible says anyway.

Wow what a knee-jerk you have there Stratus. I wasn't always a Christian for one. For two you really have no clue about such things obviously.

I would explain it to you, but that would be derailing this thread.

Learn a bit of self control. You are acting just like Rob.

Oh wait, YOU ARE ROB.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Stratus Wrong

You aren't married? Huh. Guess you're going to hell then. That's what the bible says anyway.

Na he just has to admit he is a sinner and then he can go back to pointing the finger and still go to heaven.

It's a neat little arrangement.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Na he just has to admit he is a sinner and then he can go back to pointing the finger and still go to heaven.

It's a neat little arrangement.

Was gonna reply, in attempt to yet again school you, but I decided it was for not.

Reported.

[Stratus Wrong]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet

Na he just has to admit he is a sinner and then he can go back to pointing the finger and still go to heaven.

It's a neat little arrangement.

Oh yeah, I forgot. What about that part saying you shouldn't judge anyone and only god should? Forget that one too. Christians are so inconsistent and irrational! I saw this athiest site the otehr day, and it had a disclaimer, then it had an enter or go away button, but they were named 'reality' and 'silly fantasies'

http://www.godlessbastard.com/

hehe. I think it's pretty funny.

[Stratus Wrong]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Was gonna reply, in attempt to yet again school you, but I decided it was for not.

Reported.

Reported for what btw? He speaks truth.

[Cody Dawg]

I took Paxil once. ONCE. It was supposed to help OCD. I swear, I honestly woke up the first night hearing people talking in my bedroom...I got up and I could still hear them...weird voices.

Freaked out.

Ran out and got in my car with the music blasting and drove until the next morning when the meds wore off.

Never took that freaking crap again - I'd rather bite my nails and have OCD. When I hear how people killed themselves on Paxil I believe it.

[Stratus Wrong]

So you were hearing voices, you eralize your brain was working improperly and giving you false readings of things that weren't really there, and you decide to drive. And let me guess, it was in your SUV. Alone. While on meds that aversely affect your judgement.

****ing brilliant Cody.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by ghporter

The patient literature on Wellbutrin listed potential side effects including sexual dysfunction, though it wasn't listed as a common side effect.. Also, I didn't characterize Wellbutrin properly (should have been "second generation antidepressant"), but my point was still true: if the depression is deep enough, SSRIs can't hurt sexual functioning-because there isn't any. And with correct dosing, (the real catch here) the amount os SSRI effect can be moderated to control the depression without excessive side effects. My point was more toward "my sexual functioning was depressed by the depression, and when that was relieved, 'functionality was restored'." I wasn't clear then, but I was working on supper and distracted. Sorry.

Ok, I understand what you were trying to say now. I didn't start this thread to debate the tradeoffs between the need to treat depression and the temporary side-effects of medication. Any responsible doctor should inform the patient of the high possibility of sexual side effects so they can weigh the choice together. For many patients the sexual side effects are a tolerable tradeoff. I'm sure you agree with this. The problem is that most doctors are completely unaware of the possibility of permanent sexual dysfunction caused by these drugs. If my doctor had mentioned this as a possible side effect I may have opted against SSRIs and my quality of life would be much better right now.[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by ghporter

SSRIs tend to sustain levels of serotonin at the cost of somehow decreasing dopamine levels-and dopamine is associated with "normal" sex drive and functioning. What Wellbutrin seems to do is sustain dopamine levels, producing an elevated mood (why do you think they call it 'dopamine?' ) and NOT hurting sexuality. But in most patients with depression, sexuality is nearly nonexistent anyway, so relieving the depression cannot help but HELP sexuality. Again, the key is proper dosing levels. My doctor had me complete a very thorough questionaire before EVERY weekly visit so he could gage my depression and how the meds were working; it took only minutes of the actual appointment time for him to review this material and judge what it meant; why can't other docs take this time? I'll tell you: mine was a shrink in a residency (and that means he was being supervised) while most docs that prescribe antidepressants are NOT. They're overwhelmingly GPs and other non-psych physicians. This is the crux of the "side effect" issue; they can't spend the time to properly monitor their antidepressant patients, and so they leave them with loading doses for extended periods of time.

Depression is no longer an issue for me and hasn't been for almost two years. Yet while I was deep in depression my sex drive and enjoyment of sex were scores better than they are now. I'd never been non-depressed long enough to know if they were "normal" or not but I'm guessing they were. Since being on Paxil I've lost almost all feeling down there. I would barely even know it existed if I didn't see it in the shower every morning. Hell, I have to see it to even know it's hard. Needless to say my enjoyment of sex is greatly diminished.

Originally Posted by ghporter

Finally, I should have noted that the referenced source for the begining of this thread was a Wikipedia article... Hardly authoritative, right? I question the so-called permanence of the dysfunction effect mainly because of the source cited. Does anyone have a GOOD source about the long-term effects of SSRI usage? Something with peer-reviewed evidence?

The sources I have are the dozens of people with identical problems I have talked to on the mailing list. Over the years I've also seen lots of people on general mental help messageboards note the same problems. I've been like this for 4 years after stopping the drug, so it is clearly long out of my system. Right now we don't know much about the extent of the problem. I'd be happy to learn that the problem is rare and I'm just an unlucky 1 out of 100000 SSRI users. Obviously more research needs to be done ASAP!

[ghporter]

I have to wonder why Paxil was prescribed instead of a newer medication. Paxil was one of the drugs implicated in "higher risk of suicidal ideation" issues, wasn't it? Further, antidepressants alone have been shown to be no more effective in treating depression than "talk therapy" type professional therapy, and when you combine the two, MUCH lower drug doses are possible and for much briefer periods.

I'm sorry about your issues, really I am, and I didn't intend to contest that you do have issues. But citing Wikipedia (without some other reference) is not a great way to show good evidence. I totally agree that MUCH more research on how SSRIs work is absolutely necessary. I'll bet there's some reversability in even your condition, four years out, and it's related to how Paxil works and on what. Good luck.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

I took Paxil once. ONCE. It was supposed to help OCD. I swear, I honestly woke up the first night hearing people talking in my bedroom...I got up and I could still hear them...weird voices.

Freaked out.

Ran out and got in my car with the music blasting and drove until the next morning when the meds wore off.

Never took that freaking crap again - I'd rather bite my nails and have OCD. When I hear how people killed themselves on Paxil I believe it.

I had what I believe to have been a very bad experience with Paxil myself. I was mildly depressed for awhile and my doctor prescribed that crap. I went from being mildy depressed to suicidal for no reason. Up until that point I had no history of mental illness nor was there any in my family. After I stopped taking it the major depression went away. It also killed my libido for awhile--nice stuff that Paxil.

I know antidepressants have saved some people lives, but for me never again.

[Kerrigan]

I've never to see any sort of therapist, and so obviously I've never taken any psychiatric meds.

Some observations I've made over the years:

One friend of mine started getting depressed and anxious after going off the university. He started taking antidepressants and going to therapy, and after a year of this his behavior had changed a lot--for the worse. He had become rather bizarre, he was deeply depressed, and he would threaten to kill himself every month or so. He's now what you would call a broken man.

Another close friend of mine had minor depression and anxiety, again, after starting university. She went on antidepressants and starting seeing a therapist (irregularly), and after a year and a half of this, she was much more depressed. Also she started doing things which were strange and out of character, and which had a serious impact on other peoples' lives.

Friend no.3 had probably the most minor case of depression, I'm talking about feeling bad for a couple of weeks over ... you guessed it ... going off to university. She went on meds and today, 2 years later, she has become uncharacteristically flat and downright boring.

I could list a few more friends and acquaintances who have shown the same pattern: a change of setting makes them depressed, they go onto meds, and the depression is drawn out indefinitely.

I wouldn't extrapolate about the usefulness of psychiatric treatment, but I am rather concerned about meds being over prescribed, and the negative effect this has.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

I had what I believe to have been a very bad experience with Paxil myself. I was mildly depressed for awhile and my doctor prescribed that crap. I went from being mildy depressed to suicidal for no reason. Up until that point I had no history of mental illness nor was there any in my family. After I stopped taking it the major depression went away. It also killed my libido for awhile--nice stuff that Paxil.

I know antidepressants have saved some people lives, but for me never again.

Interestingly Paxil made me quite depressed as well. Thing is it did help my anxiety a lot so I stuck with it for far too long. It also gave me unpredictable, unbelievable highs for a couple hours every couple weeks. Oh and withdrawal was a nightmare too. That drug is not cool.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I have to wonder why Paxil was prescribed instead of a newer medication. Paxil was one of the drugs implicated in "higher risk of suicidal ideation" issues, wasn't it? Further, antidepressants alone have been shown to be no more effective in treating depression than "talk therapy" type professional therapy, and when you combine the two, MUCH lower drug doses are possible and for much briefer periods.

I'm sorry about your issues, really I am, and I didn't intend to contest that you do have issues. But citing Wikipedia (without some other reference) is not a great way to show good evidence. I totally agree that MUCH more research on how SSRIs work is absolutely necessary. I'll bet there's some reversability in even your condition, four years out, and it's related to how Paxil works and on what. Good luck.

No worries. With research there may someday be something more authoritative out there than the Wikipedia article. One thing is certain, we can't count on the drug companies to do the research.

Paxil was only 8 years old when it was first prescribed to me in 2000. It is actually newer than both Prozac (another SSRI, the first I believe) which was approved in 1988 and Welbutrin which was first approved in 1989. At the time I was prescribed Paxil, I'm pretty sure the suicide news hadn't yet hit and withdrawl problems were also not as well documented.

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, Paxil is really bad news.

I still have OCD to a certain extent. It's much worse when I'm stressed out or when I'm tired. The key to managing it is to get enough sleep and exercise and to eat a balanced diet. Otherwise I find myself obsessing over things like making sure my house is perfectly clean or similar issues. When I was in college if I got less than a 4.0 grade on anything I was crushed. Another bad symptom is that I obsess over my skin. I pick my nails and obsess over blemishes. I went through a time when I had skin cancer removed and when I'm tired and getting out of the shower I'll go over every freckle on my body and scrutinize it to see if it's darker or black because then I'm sure it's melanoma. I hate being that way but I am. I cope by forcing myself to go to sleep. Then I feel better when I wake up. It's probably better than taking medication.

[Kerrigan]

Luckily for you Cody, leading a regimented life like that not only minimizes your symptoms, it also makes you more healthy and capable in general.

[Cody Dawg]

Yes, at my worst I had anorexia and I had a habit of tearing of my nails to the point that they were bloody...it was bad.

People sometimes need to find out what makes them that way...I think that a lot of people with anxiety and OCD and similar disorders just have an extreme need to control their lives. If they gain control then I think that symptoms improve.

Anyway, job and lifestyle changes definitely do help.

[Saetre]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Yes, at my worst I had anorexia and I had a habit of tearing of my nails to the point that they were bloody...it was bad.

People sometimes need to find out what makes them that way...I think that a lot of people with anxiety and OCD and similar disorders just have an extreme need to control their lives. If they gain control then I think that symptoms improve.

Anyway, job and lifestyle changes definitely do help.

I heartily agree about the lifestyle change. Just four or so years ago my anxiety problems were so bad, I could barely function. Ever had a panic attack? Well I felt about 65% that amount of anxiety everyday almost all the time...often worse. I could barely talk (imagine trying to have a conversation while bound to a chair with a screaming psycho pressing a gun to your head). Well I was so stressed that it was pretty much "maxed out" all the time. Nothing really made me more stressed or less stressed. My mother and grandmother were the same way (to a lesser degree) so I assummed it was just a genetic thing that I didn't have any control over.

I've since realized that I'm just more sensitive to most stressors than most people. I get stressed if I don't get plenty of sleep, don't eat quite right, put off projects, don't keep hydrated, have a sip of coffee, etc. So now my routine is much more regimented and I'm doing great. If I neglect it for a few days things start getting a little bad again. Oh and for the depression I've found that I need to set goals for my self and have regular accomplishments. Setting up my own business, traveling the world and mountain-climbing have really helped in this regard. Now I'm far more confident than your average Joe and probably a little less likely to get "down" too.

I was so sure that my condition was genetic and that drugs were the only answer. I've since proved myself dead wrong. I wonder if the same is true for a lot of people with severe depression and anxiety.

[Zonnie]

Saetre,

Well there is definitely no link to Scientology in the yahoo group - and in fact there is a surprising number of scientifically-oriented members working to understand & reverse this condition. Should you decide to join, much of the best information can be found searching through the archives.

I took an SSRI around the same time as you and agree that the warnings about suicide, withdrawal, etc. were not yet widely known to the public - if at all.

[justinbaby]

Guys, some of us depend on these drugs to stay alive with some semblance of degree for quality of life. I myself am on 4 different psych meds retailing for $1600+ a month. I have some insurance, the rest I pay out of pocket. The reason: 4 in-house check-ins at psych wards, suicide prevention during the past 4 or 5 years. It sucks. As for my sex drive: In the past I used to have a HUGE sex drive. Now with the meds, it has now decreased SIGNIFICANTLY. If I find some significantly other, my hopes are leaning on Viagra or some equivalent, because I sure can't make it on my own. However, my life means more to me than having sex so I take the meds. The trade-off is necessary. As least for now.

[James L]

Originally Posted by justinbaby

Guys, some of us depend on these drugs to stay alive with some semblance of degree for quality of life. I myself am on 4 different psych meds retailing for $1600+ a month. I have some insurance, the rest I pay out of pocket. The reason: 4 in-house check-ins at psych wards, suicide prevention during the past 4 or 5 years. It sucks. As for my sex drive: In the past I used to have a HUGE sex drive. Now with the meds, it has now decreased SIGNIFICANTLY. If I find some significantly other, my hopes are leaning on Viagra or some equivalent, because I sure can't make it on my own. However, my life means more to me than having sex so I take the meds. The trade-off is necessary. As least for now.

Kudos for being brave enough to say that.

It is way to easy to attempt to relate one's own experiences to others, and to think that your own experiences dictate how everyone will react, or how everyone will need to be treated. This, of course, is not in the least bit true.

Each human body is different, and each human body is going to react differently to different therapies. It is ignorant to say because something didn't work for you, that it won't work for anyone.

While I do think meds in general are over prescribed, I think medication is a perfectly valid, and in some cases medically necessary, form of treatment for depression, OCD, etc.

One final thought comes to mind. People who have never been in the midst of a severe depression (either their own or a close person around them) have absolutely no idea how devastating it can be. The worst thing you can say to a truly depressed person is "suck it up, it's all in your head". True depression is just as real as diabetes or Acute Coronary Syndrome.

In other words, it sucks. Hopefully the doctors who treat depressed patients become more and more familiar with the treatment options, be them pharmaceutical or otherwise.

Cheers,

James L

[Zonnie]

Justinbaby and James,

I am certainly not here to tell anybody else what they should do. I understand about severe, life-threatening depression and would be the last person in the world to tell a person going through something like that to 'suck it up.'

I am merely here to report that in some cases, even a short course of SSRI's seems to cause severe, long-lasting sexual dysfunction that doesn't go away for years AFTER quitting the drugs. Many people are suffering from this condition in isolation and it is important, in my opinion, that this risk become more widely known.

In the end we all have to make our own choices in this world and assess what is right for ourselves - but covering up information is not the way to help people do that. In general I believe people are telling the truth about their own personal experiences, which obviously vary a great deal. It seems to me that both those who have been injured by SSRI's as well as those who have been helped by them feel so strongly about their experiences they sometimes have a hard time staying open to stories different than their own.

[Cody Dawg]

Saetre

I heartily agree about the lifestyle change. Just four or so years ago my anxiety problems were so bad, I could barely function. Ever had a panic attack? Well I felt about 65% that amount of anxiety everyday almost all the time...often worse. I could barely talk (imagine trying to have a conversation while bound to a chair with a screaming psycho pressing a gun to your head). Well I was so stressed that it was pretty much "maxed out" all the time. Nothing really made me more stressed or less stressed. My mother and grandmother were the same way (to a lesser degree) so I assummed it was just a genetic thing that I didn't have any control over.

I've since realized that I'm just more sensitive to most stressors than most people. I get stressed if I don't get plenty of sleep, don't eat quite right, put off projects, don't keep hydrated, have a sip of coffee, etc. So now my routine is much more regimented and I'm doing great. If I neglect it for a few days things start getting a little bad again. Oh and for the depression I've found that I need to set goals for my self and have regular accomplishments. Setting up my own business, traveling the world and mountain-climbing have really helped in this regard. Now I'm far more confident than your average Joe and probably a little less likely to get "down" too.

I was so sure that my condition was genetic and that drugs were the only answer. I've since proved myself dead wrong. I wonder if the same is true for a lot of people with severe depression and anxiety.

Yes, I've had panic attacks - they started when I was 10 years old. The first time I had them I had to be hospitalized and I was a case study since I was one of the youngest people they'd ever seen develop the disorder.

I still get them. Now they're not as bad and they've morphed into anxiety. I remember driving up to Georgia once en route further north. Got in the middle of a huge flat area and started to have panic attacks. Couldn't figure it out. Turned out it was from the openness of the land. I had to check into a hotel room and drive at night when I couldn't see all of the flat land.

I have to either change the way I work and live my life or take drugs still. I chose to change the way I worked and lived life. So far it's helped - a lot. I've done it by isolating myself with familiar situations and routine. I don't want to take drugs because I, too, am very sensitive to chemical changes. These drugs do weird things. I've taken Wellbutrin and then I can't sleep - I end up sleeping about 3 hours a night and feel like I'm on coke or something like that. Have only taken Paxil and Wellbutrin and Paxil made me crazy and Wellbutrin made me crazy another way. I felt better not taking anything and modifying my actions, getting more exercise, more sleep, eating healthy foods, etc.

It's good to talk about this stuff and to anyone who experiences it.