[besson3c]

Why is it that some names are treated identically? Other than name abbreviations, this seems a little silly.

[starman]

Because the first Richard was a real Dick.

[iREZ]

theres something very liberating when it comes to calling people named richard, dick.

[Doofy]

http://www.csiro.au/csiro/content/standard/ps68,,.html

The "Doctor" title just sets it up nicely.

[Ghoser777]

That poor man...

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by iREZ

theres something very liberating when it comes to calling people named richard, dick.

Especially when it's your boss!

[OreoCookie]

I could never figure that one out myself. Why in the world would you prefer that people call you Dick? It's just asking for trouble.

[OreoCookie]

Originally Posted by Doofy

http://www.csiro.au/csiro/content/standard/ps68,,.html

The "Doctor" title just sets it up nicely.

The parents should be prosecuted for cruelty

[memento]

I know someone who's name is Richard Holder. He's a drug tester. no joke. AND someone made the honest error of shortening his first name. He didn't even realize it until we explained why we were all on the floor laughing.

[davesimondotcom]

My father-in-law's name is Dick Peck. My nextdoor neighbor growing up was Les Cox.

Both fail the playground test. Big time.

[besson3c]

I'm still curious why/how somebody sat down and decided "hmmmm..... we'll just consider Bill and William the same damn thing".

[Rumor]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I'm still curious why/how somebody sat down and decided "hmmmm..... we'll just consider Bill and William the same damn thing".

What about combining them into Billiam?

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by besson3c

I'm still curious why/how somebody sat down and decided "hmmmm..... we'll just consider Bill and William the same damn thing".

At least they share something in common - the "ill."

Where did "Babs" come instead of "Barbara?"

Or Jack for John. They are the same fricken length!

Henry/Hank
Robert/Bob

[besson3c]

Well, all I know is that my name is besson3c.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Well, all I know is that my name is besson3c.

Whatever, Bessie.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Rumor

What about combining them into Billiam?

For some odd reason, I've started calling one of my cats that.

[besson3c]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Whatever, Bessie.

*tosses down leather glove and challenges Dave Simon to a duel*

[Oisín]

Most of these names are simple abbreviations of earlier forms of the ‘regular’ name. Some are a bit odder than others.

Among the simple ones are James -> Jim. Back when James was bisyllabic (or even trisyllabic; James is the English form of Jacomus, which is the Latin form of the Greek name Iakobos, i.e., Jacob/Jake), Jim (or Jēm, or something like that) arose as a simple abbreviation.

William -> Bill, Robert -> Bob and Richard -> Dick are the same, just removing the last syllable. The w -> b and r -> d are probably from foreign pronunciations of the names—r was trilled heavily in Norman French (where Richard was also kept as Rickard, with the k sound, much longer than in English), and at some point, the English heard that trill as a d. Similarly, Irish had no w earlier on (though it does now), only a bilabial pronounced like a b without the lips touching each other; the English just heard this as a b, and Will(iam) became Bill. The more purely English forms Rich(ie) and Will(y) exist as well, of course. And besides Bob, other forms used to be quite common as well, all rhyming: Dob, Hob, Nob [I kid you not], Lob.

(Also, the meaning of ‘dick’ as penis comes from the name Dick, not the other way around)

Jack from John is a bit more complex, since it’s not English, but Dutch. John, as you probably know, comes from Johannes. This became, in Early Dutch, Jan, to which was added a diminutive suffix -kin (same as -chen in Modern German), giving Jankin. This then became Jakkin (Jackin) in English, which was shortened to just Jack (2001, if you’re a Will & Grace fan).

Hank is, properly, the exact same name. Besides Jan(kin), Johannes also became Hans or Hankin in Dutch, and this was similarly shortened to Hank in English (though without the intermediate Hackin step). I suppose using it for Henry is an arbitrary shortening based on the French form of this latter name, Henrique (Henrik/Hendrik in Dutch), by removing the -ri-, but not the k...

Babs is just a simple shortening, nothing more. The s at the end is not uncommon in such shortenings (Kevin can become Kevs, etc.), though it doesn’t seem to have been standardised as the only form in other names than Barbara, that I can think of...


So basically, they’re all just regular name abbreviations and pet forms, formed more or less regularly (at the time they were formed).

[brassplayersrock²]

Originally Posted by besson3c

Well, all I know is that my name is besson3c.

Bubba....is that you??

[Salty]

I don't get that either. We have a guy at school names James, everyone calls him Jimmy. I knew his name was James so at first I always thought people were calling him Jamie, makes more sense.

[lpkmckenna]

I always thought girls named Elizabeth had it made. They could pick from so many abbreviations: Eliza, Beth, Bessie, Lizzie, Lisa, Liz, Eli, or even Alice.

Of course, Elizabeth also sounds a bit like "lizard breath."

[lpkmckenna]

Is Liam short for William?

EDIT: I guess so: "Liam is a common male first name in Ireland, England, and Scotland. Although less popular in the United States, the name has seen a sudden increase in popularity in recent years, coming from the 604th most common male name in 1990 to the 112th most common male name in 2004 [1]. It originated as the short form of the name William." - wikipedia

[smacintush]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

I always thought girls named Elizabeth had it made. They could pick from so many abbreviations: Eliza, Beth, Bessie, Lizzie, Lisa, Liz, Eli, or even Alice.

Of course, Elizabeth also sounds a bit like "lizard breath."

Don't forget Betty.

My daughter is named Elizabeth, "E lizard Breath" is one of the many names her brother calls her…

Then there's "E loser beth", "E lizard turd" or "Eliza-turd", "E lizard barf", "Eliza-nerd", "E lazy beth", "E lardo beth"…I even heard "E lezzie-beth" a few times.

Yep, quite a few to choose from!

[Salty]

I was telling someone I'd just sit there and think of all the names the bullies would come up with. Chatting with someone recently and he thought Ashley was a great name for a boy, then I was like... yah... IF WE WANT HIM TO JOIN O-TOWN!

[lpkmckenna]

I've always believed kids should be given gender-specific names. People named Kelly, Ashley, Casey and such are always needing to correct others, and of course they get teased as kids.

[Salty]

Agreed. That's the one nice thing about being a David even if everyone else has the same name. I like names like Jason, James, Nathan, those sorts. Thankfully guys typically get more normal names than girls. I always hate when girls get names like Melissa but they're not...

[Kr0nos]

Richard >> Rick >> Dick

Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but that's the way somebody explained it to me.

Another one that always got me:

Margeret >> Maggy >> Peggy

[Gamoe]

Very interesting info there, Oisín. Quite creative mockeries there, smacintush! BTW, do you know the story of why the Irish-man named his son Sally? Because he was sure to become a "real man" after all the fights he would get into with the other kids. Or at least it goes something like that...

[lavar78]

Originally Posted by smacintush

Don't forget Betty.

My daughter is named Elizabeth, "E lizard Breath" is one of the many names her brother calls her…

Then there's "E loser beth", "E lizard turd" or "Eliza-turd", "E lizard barf", "Eliza-nerd", "E lazy beth", "E lardo beth"…I even heard "E lezzie-beth" a few times.

Yep, quite a few to choose from!

I knew an Elizabeth in college we used to call Ebeth (you know, like email).

Don't forget Bets as another nickname.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Very interesting info there, Oisín. Quite creative mockeries there, smacintush! BTW, do you know the story of why the Irish-man named his son Sally? Because he was sure to become a "real man" after all the fights he would get into with the other kids. Or at least it goes something like that...

Sally? You mean "Sue," don't you?

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Salty

Agreed. That's the one nice thing about being a David even if everyone else has the same name.

Growing up, there was always more than one David in my classes. And mine was always shortened to "Dave."

I've formed a theory that people like to call bigger guys named David "Dave" instead because it's less intimidating. Besides, David implies a little guy, so if you are the size of Goliath, they call you Dave.

I've found it's virtually universal. Smaller, thinner guys are David. Taller, bigger guys are Dave.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Margeret >> Maggy >> Peggy

My grandmother's given name is Margaret. Of course, it's under penalty of death that anyone should call her that.

She's Peggy or Peg. Never Margaret.

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos

Richard >> Rick >> Dick

Doesn't make a whole lotta sense, but that's the way somebody explained it to me.

If the people you hear saying Rick trill their r’s (Rrrrrick), then it makes fair sense, I’d say. Names are, after all, not among the parts of vocabulary that are introduced through ‘civilised’ society (literature, fancy parties among royalty, etc.), but more often through the seamen working on the docks. They had no such sound as Rrrrrrick in their language, so they heard it just as Drdrdrdick, and made it simply Dick from that.

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Oisín

Most of these names are simple abbreviations of earlier forms of the ‘regular’ name. Some are a bit odder than others.

Among the simple ones are James -> Jim. Back when James was bisyllabic (or even trisyllabic; James is the English form of Jacomus, which is the Latin form of the Greek name Iakobos, i.e., Jacob/Jake), Jim (or Jēm, or something like that) arose as a simple abbreviation.

William -> Bill, Robert -> Bob and Richard -> Dick are the same, just removing the last syllable. The w -> b and r -> d are probably from foreign pronunciations of the names—r was trilled heavily in Norman French (where Richard was also kept as Rickard, with the k sound, much longer than in English), and at some point, the English heard that trill as a d. Similarly, Irish had no w earlier on (though it does now), only a bilabial pronounced like a b without the lips touching each other; the English just heard this as a b, and Will(iam) became Bill. The more purely English forms Rich(ie) and Will(y) exist as well, of course. And besides Bob, other forms used to be quite common as well, all rhyming: Dob, Hob, Nob [I kid you not], Lob.

(Also, the meaning of ‘dick’ as penis comes from the name Dick, not the other way around)

Jack from John is a bit more complex, since it’s not English, but Dutch. John, as you probably know, comes from Johannes. This became, in Early Dutch, Jan, to which was added a diminutive suffix -kin (same as -chen in Modern German), giving Jankin. This then became Jakkin (Jackin) in English, which was shortened to just Jack (2001, if you’re a Will & Grace fan).

Hank is, properly, the exact same name. Besides Jan(kin), Johannes also became Hans or Hankin in Dutch, and this was similarly shortened to Hank in English (though without the intermediate Hackin step). I suppose using it for Henry is an arbitrary shortening based on the French form of this latter name, Henrique (Henrik/Hendrik in Dutch), by removing the -ri-, but not the k...

Babs is just a simple shortening, nothing more. The s at the end is not uncommon in such shortenings (Kevin can become Kevs, etc.), though it doesn’t seem to have been standardised as the only form in other names than Barbara, that I can think of...


So basically, they’re all just regular name abbreviations and pet forms, formed more or less regularly (at the time they were formed).

Most Informative Post Award™

[Salty]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

Growing up, there was always more than one David in my classes. And mine was always shortened to "Dave."

I've formed a theory that people like to call bigger guys named David "Dave" instead because it's less intimidating. Besides, David implies a little guy, so if you are the size of Goliath, they call you Dave.

I've found it's virtually universal. Smaller, thinner guys are David. Taller, bigger guys are Dave.

yah, everyone at school calls me Dave. A couple of girls are the exception. I think Megan only ever calls me David. My friend Danielle only calls me David, I think girls are generally better at respecting names. I used to really care about being called DAVID! Now I don't, my best friend for the most part calls me Dave.

I had a pastor once who started at the church working at the youth. He decided we'd call me Dave and him David. Needless to say... he became known as Pastor Dave... and I continued with my name in tact .

I think introverts tend to call me David more often, extroverts tend to go with the less serious Dave. Then again almost nobody I know takes me seriously. I'm the big happy loud somewhat large guy... who reads poetry at coffee houses. I love it people have trouble dealing with the fact that I'm a loud mouthed goof and a deep and profound person. Haha... losers.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by Salty

yah, everyone at school calls me Dave.

I think introverts tend to call me David more often, extroverts tend to go with the less serious Dave. Then again almost nobody I know takes me seriously. I'm the big happy loud somewhat large guy... who reads poetry at coffee houses. I love it people have trouble dealing with the fact that I'm a loud mouthed goof and a deep and profound person. Haha... losers.

I'm thinking "Daffyd".

[Gamoe]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

Sally? You mean "Sue," don't you?

Uhm... maybe. I was told this story verbally, and I might have gotten some of the details wrong, which is why I indicated my uncertainty at the end. Still, you get the general idea, right?

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by Salty

yah, everyone at school calls me Dave. A couple of girls are the exception. I think Megan only ever calls me David. My friend Danielle only calls me David, I think girls are generally better at respecting names. I used to really care about being called DAVID! Now I don't, my best friend for the most part calls me Dave.

I had a pastor once who started at the church working at the youth. He decided we'd call me Dave and him David. Needless to say... he became known as Pastor Dave... and I continued with my name in tact .

I think introverts tend to call me David more often, extroverts tend to go with the less serious Dave. Then again almost nobody I know takes me seriously. I'm the big happy loud somewhat large guy... who reads poetry at coffee houses. I love it people have trouble dealing with the fact that I'm a loud mouthed goof and a deep and profound person. Haha... losers.

I've always embraced being called Dave. "David" is only used by my mom when I'm in trouble. My wife has called me David maybe once in the past 10 years.

I just prefer it.

My best friend refers to me as "the Dave" sometimes - "Hey, what's the Dave up to?" that kind of thing. It stuck and other people do it too.

Sometimes I do it too, talking about myself in the third person ala Bob Dole. Just because it's funny.

[lpkmckenna]

Originally Posted by Gabriel Morales

Uhm... maybe. I was told this story verbally, and I might have gotten some of the details wrong, which is why I indicated my uncertainty at the end. Still, you get the general idea, right?

I think this might be the origin of that story: A Boy Named Sue by Johnny Cash.

[ironknee]

what about margaret -> peggy?

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by lpkmckenna

I think this might be the origin of that story: A Boy Named Sue by Johnny Cash.

"The item you've requested is currently not available in the US store..."

[MacNStein]

I went to school with a girl named Susan Swallows (she did) and a guy named Morgan Lester (people called him Mo-Lester).

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by ironknee

what about margaret -> peggy?

I've heard them called Maggy, but not Peggy.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Doofy

I'm thinking "Daffyd".

He's the only gey in the village?