[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Zeeb

Oh please, the average citizen here does not tote around weapons and have gun battles. You're being overly dramatic and perhaps are watching too many movies.

Much of the gun violence in this country comes from people who illegally possess weapons. In which case it doesn't matter if guns are banned or not--they are breaking the law in any case.

you're full of it. consider how many gang members carry guns and use them routinely.

[davesimondotcom]

This isn't the PoliLounge, but I'll go ahead and respond anyway.

Originally Posted by tutelary

what a pathetic set of well worn excuses you use. look at the murder rates in new york city alone versus whole other COUNTRIES.

And not all of those murders are committed with guns. Murder can be committed with bare hands. Going to ban those too?

Originally Posted by tutelary

You'll find that the 2nd amendment never specifically granted *INDIVIDUALS* right to bear arms. Interpretation is key. It could be modified in such a manner as to make average joe having a gun illegal.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Hmmmm.... guess I don't see where PEOPLE aren't individuals.

Originally Posted by tutelary

GUNS kill people. You can run or fight someone with a knife. Its hard to do either from someone with a gun. Its a tool that MAKES MURDER POSSIBLE and *EASY*.

Actually, GUNS don't kill people. They don't fire all by themselves. And, if we want to get technical, when someone is killed with a firearm, it's the bullet that kills them.

Originally Posted by tutelary

Go ask surgeons in major metro areas how they feel about guns with as many people as they save or watch die every week from gunshots.

Whether a surgeon FEELS like he doesn't like guns doesn't matter.

Where you don't seem to understand is that banning something doesn't make it go away. Ever watch "Cops" on TV? How many people are driving around with drugs (that are banned) in their cars?

Banning something doesn't make it go away. It simply makes those who have it criminals. And criminals are exactly the people we DON'T want having guns.

My father has a concealed carry license. He's 63 years old. He's never so much as had a speeding ticket. He is a business owner and served in the state legislature for 16 years.

What possible reason should the government have to come and take HIS gun?

See, where you go wrong is that you assume that someone who has a gun intends to commit murder. Rather than the natural way of things that someone who intends to commit murder will obtain a weopon to commit that murder even if it's illegal. Be that weapon a hammer, a gun, poison, a bomb or an aircraft they can fly into a building.

Wake up.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by tutelary

you're full of it. consider how many gang members carry guns and use them routinely.

You just proved his point, CRIMINALS have guns. Duh.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Y3a

The debate come from the idealists, leftists and commies, who first want all the guns taken from you so it will be easier to conquer you.

Do you know WHY the militia was armed? To kill politicians who wouldn't leave office etc. Sounds like a good idea, Hmmmm???

the militia was armed so Americans who considered themselves fully seperate could protect themselves and enforce that level of seperation they desired. Americans no longer wanted to be controlled by an entity across the ocean.

In short, Americans were protecting themselves from *another goverment*, they were not protecting themselves from other normal Americans on the street. Since our goverment defends us, and the likelihood of us being invaded and needing handguns to defend ourselves from foreign troops is incredibly ludicrous, Americans in general do not need guns.

You defend weapons for the sheer sake of having them, not because its logical in any way, shape or form.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

You just proved his point, CRIMINALS have guns. Duh.

idiot, thats why you remove those guns as you find them, and you stop selling more. Criminals carry guns everywhere they go every day, do you? You've just proven my point. DUH.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by tutelary

idiot, thats why you remove those guns as you find them, and you stop selling more. Criminals carry guns everywhere they go every day, do you? You've just proven my point. DUH.

You mean like the way that banning drugs has ensured that old drugs are disposed of and no new ones are sold?

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by tutelary

idiot, thats why you remove those guns as you find them, and you stop selling more. Criminals carry guns everywhere they go every day, do you? You've just proven my point. DUH.

So now you're saying that only criminals carry guns, and davesimon's father, who is not a criminal, can't carry a gun, because he is not a criminal? Truly, your intellect is dizzying.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

This isn't the PoliLounge, but I'll go ahead and respond anyway.



And not all of those murders are committed with guns. Murder can be committed with bare hands. Going to ban those too?



A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

Hmmmm.... guess I don't see where PEOPLE aren't individuals.



Actually, GUNS don't kill people. They don't fire all by themselves. And, if we want to get technical, when someone is killed with a firearm, it's the bullet that kills them.



Whether a surgeon FEELS like he doesn't like guns doesn't matter.

Where you don't seem to understand is that banning something doesn't make it go away. Ever watch "Cops" on TV? How many people are driving around with drugs (that are banned) in their cars?

Banning something doesn't make it go away. It simply makes those who have it criminals. And criminals are exactly the people we DON'T want having guns.

My father has a concealed carry license. He's 63 years old. He's never so much as had a speeding ticket. He is a business owner and served in the state legislature for 16 years.

What possible reason should the government have to come and take HIS gun?

See, where you go wrong is that you assume that someone who has a gun intends to commit murder. Rather than the natural way of things that someone who intends to commit murder will obtain a weopon to commit that murder even if it's illegal. Be that weapon a hammer, a gun, poison, a bomb or an aircraft they can fly into a building.

Wake up.

A free state. Which means IN CONFLICT WITH ANOTHER NATION. Are the Canadians going to invade? Are the mexicans coming over the border with weapons in tow? Look how pathetic your logic is.

How many people with illegal drugs can get in an arguement with someone and kill them with those illegal drugs in their car? hello?

You are shallow and only think short term. You need to look at a picture that extends more than a year from now and realize that weapons could be curbed in America in 40 or 50 years and everyone would be safer. Why keep selling guns and supplying the criminals??

You should not have to buy a weapon to feel secure in your own country.

The whole "people will still kill people with bats, etc" arguement is stupid. Of course they will, I have already talked about this. You can defend yourself against someone with a bat, a knife, etc. If they have a gun you are almost certainly dead. Its an excessive level of lethal force that no normal person needs access to.

Get a clue.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

So now you're saying that only criminals carry guns, and davesimon's father, who is not a criminal, can't carry a gun, because he is not a criminal? Truly, your intellect is dizzying.

If criminals didn't have access to guns would normal people feel this urgent *need* to own them? This is a long term solution. I can't help the fact that you cannot see past tomorrow morning.

Nice attempt with the princess bride quote tho, perhaps you should try it with actual quotes next time. So much for feeling witty, huh?

[His Dudeness]

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Arms? Does it mean I can own grenades, missle launchers, and bombs?

LMFAO There's always one out there who brings this up! I have the right of self defense, but that doesn't mean I can preemptively beat the **** out of someone.

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by tutelary

A free state. Which means IN CONFLICT WITH ANOTHER NATION. Are the Canadians going to invade? Are the mexicans coming over the border with weapons in tow? Look how pathetic your logic is.

I wonder how long you'll even be able to read this because a ban might be in your future with your personal attacks (you've called me an idiot and pathetic already and you've only got 52 posts to your name.)

The point of the militia is not just to protect us from an invading force. It's also to protect us from our own government.

You see, the colonists took up arms against THEIR OWN GOVERNMENT to create this nation.

Oh, and, by the way, people are coming over the border every day with weapons in tow. And illegal (read: banned) drugs. So, you see, your logic needs work.

Originally Posted by tutelary

How many people with illegal drugs can get in an arguement with someone and kill them with those illegal drugs in their car? hello?

The point isn't that someone could throw a rock of crack at someone and kill them. The point is that banning something doesn't make it go away. Hello?

Originally Posted by tutelary

You are shallow and only think short term. You need to look at a picture that extends more than a year from now and realize that weapons could be curbed in America in 40 or 50 years and everyone would be safer. Why keep selling guns and supplying the criminals??

The vast majority of firearms sold end up in the hands of law-abiding citizens. And if we ban guns, those people would be the ones to follow the law and not obtain firearms. But the CRIMINAL by nature commits CRIMES. (That's how they get the title.)

So, by nature, they'll commit the crime to obtain a firearm illegally.

Originally Posted by tutelary

You should not have to buy a weapon to feel secure in your own country.

And you shouldn't have to give up your right to one in order to feel secure, either.

Originally Posted by tutelary

The whole "people will still kill people with bats, etc" arguement is stupid. Of course they will, I have already talked about this. You can defend yourself against someone with a bat, a knife, etc. If they have a gun you are almost certainly dead. Its an excessive level of lethal force that no normal person needs access to.

As a home-invader which house he's more likely to want to break into. The one where the owner drives a truck with a sticker that says "My President is Charlton Heston" and "Gun Control Means Using Both Hands" or the one with the sticker that says "Imagine World Peace" and "I Went to the Million Mom March."

I'm pretty sure I know, but do you?

Originally Posted by tutelary

Get a clue.

Good advice. I suggest you take it.

[brassplayersrock]

"They never saw it coming"

[davesimondotcom]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

"They never saw it coming"

I have to admit I jumped on the train once it left the tracks... but ignorance is something I cannot pass over.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by davesimondotcom

I wonder how long you'll even be able to read this because a ban might be in your future with your personal attacks (you've called me an idiot and pathetic already and you've only got 52 posts to your name.)

the truth isnt a crime. Why dont you cry about it more? I bet you already submitted me for banning to an op. Look how pathetic you are.

All so you could 'win' an arguement on the net about guns. You've just proven my point for me better than anything else could.

You are too ****ing dense to even grasp that normal people having to arm themselves to feel secure in their own homes is not the kind of society all of us wish to live in. Too bad you, and others like you arent smarter, the world would be better off.

Guns disgust me, and you disgust me. The circular arguement of "I need it because criminals have it" doesnt even begin to solve what is a very apparent problem. This is akin to us having enough nukes to blow up the world 100 times over. You might not be able to grasp that so here let me make it simple: BIG BOOM BAD.

report this, coward. pull your internet "gun" on me.

[Monique]

I hear gunshots almost every week and I live in a supposedly good part of the city. You will get used to it; just do not go out when you hear them.

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by tutelary

the truth isnt a crime. Why dont you cry about it more? I bet you already submitted me for banning to an op. Look how pathetic you are.

All so you could 'win' an arguement on the net about guns. You've just proven my point for me better than anything else could.

You are too ****ing dense to even grasp that normal people having to arm themselves to feel secure in their own homes is not the kind of society all of us wish to live in. Too bad you, and others like you arent smarter, the world would be better off.

report this, coward. pull your internet "gun" on me.

Sorry, davesimon has all logic and reason on his side (as well as the mods, too, most likely). He 'won' the argument without trying to get you banned, he won it with...well...arguments. Some people choose to own weapons, some people do not. We have the right to both of those options. Grow up.

[Dr Reducto]

Originally Posted by tutelary

because we are too stupid to amend the constitution. It could be done, and we could eventually clean illegal arms from our streets, it would take a long time, but Americans are so stupid we all live in this state of never changing ignorance. I dont own a gun, I refuse to be part of the problem.

The same thing could be said about a response to anti-terrorism that involved amending the constitution to remove the protections against unreasonable searches.

But then again, if you scare the population, they will hand over their rights as fast as they possibly can.

Clinton scared america with Columbine. Bush scared America with 9/11

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by tutelary

Guns disgust me, and you disgust me. The circular arguement of "I need it because criminals have it" doesnt even begin to solve what is a very apparent problem. This is akin to us having enough nukes to blow up the world 100 times over. You might not be able to grasp that so here let me make it simple: BIG BOOM BAD.

To address what you edited in:
You don't seem very bright, so I'll use simple math

Guns legal = honest citizens have them + criminals have them

Guns illegal = criminals have them

You don't seem to realize that banning something won't remove it. Ever hear of prohibition? Didn't quite work out. And your nuke analogy doesn't make any sense. Until you present a logical and sound argument and refrain from useless name calling, you will not be taken seriously.

[tutelary]

Originally Posted by Gossamer

Sorry, davesimon has all logic and reason on his side (as well as the mods, too, most likely). He 'won' the argument without trying to get you banned, he won it with...well...arguments. Some people choose to own weapons, some people do not. We have the right to both of those options. Grow up.

Logic and reason dont dictate that you arm yourself because your society has chosen to arm its criminals. Logic and reason dictates that you fix the problem by fixing the source: Guns.

Its really sad that you people are so stupid you cant grasp that. Heres to hoping that each and every one of you f*cknuts is a victim of violent, gun driven crimes. Heres to your death.

[brassplayersrock]

last little picture

Alex

[Gossamer]

Originally Posted by tutelary

Logic and reason dont dictate that you arm yourself because