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cenutrio · Aug 31, 2006, 10:18 AM

Any basketball fan around here?

I've been following the world's championship in Japan. Some games were great so far, nothing compared to what's coming though.

Semis:

Greece-USA
Argentina-Spain

where do you put your money on?

Dakar · Aug 31, 2006, 10:20 AM

Yes, I'm one of the few on the forums.

I'd follow the Worlds more closely, but the games are televised at god-awful times.

cenutrio · Aug 31, 2006, 10:22 AM

yeah, I agree. I live now in the Netherlands...

Still I can get up early and l follow them in the radio (spanish), and some TV coverage in Eurosport.

iREZ · Aug 31, 2006, 11:38 AM

i dont think greece, argentina, or spain can withstand the us onslaught, but i hope they do. nothings worse than watching a bball game that ends with a 20+ point victory. it also doesnt help how the US is trying to save face from their last debacle by actually playing half descent ball. GO USA!

Jawbone54 · Aug 31, 2006, 02:18 PM

U.S.A. is finally rejuvenated and serious about it. No chance for anyone else at this point.

angelmb · Aug 31, 2006, 02:35 PM

Well, for once I think Spain has what it takes to be world champion. They have played with Argentina two friendly matches a week before the FIBA WC and Spain beaten Argentina with a 20+ point victory both times. Numbers don't lie, Spain has smashed everyone on his way to the final, including current world champion and euro champion. USA has had some trouble versus Italy and their victory versus a deceiving Germany wasn't that easy. So… hell, I think Spain can do it, which I would love if only to shame spaniard soccer team who fails miserably once and again… LOL

I don't think USA is invincible, there is no way they can bring another Dream Team… and I really doubt USA players see this event as a genuine World Championship (versus domestic NBA)… besides that, where are the Duncan, Shaq and the such great players?, are they injured or didn't care about the FIBA WC?

iREZ · Aug 31, 2006, 03:16 PM

exactly right...the US squad isnt at full strength. if the US was able to get the best players from the league playing as one team, trust me...they'd dominate just as well as the original dream team.

you mention duncan and shaq...what about kobe, tmac, garnett, pierce, carter, kidd, and so on and so on. thing is...players now a days have attitudes where they think they're the best player to step on the court which is sad. the original dream team all had respect for each other and knew their roles on the team which made them unstoppable, whereas now...everybody is trying to out do each other and not playing team ball.

Kr0nos · Aug 31, 2006, 03:25 PM

Argentina is looking good.

If the US can beat Greece, they might be able to compete with Argentina's great shooting capabilities...anyway, it'd be the match of the century.

If Greece wins, they could also beat Argentina and Spain. Close call.

I think the best 4 teams made it to the semis. No doubt.

cenutrio · Aug 31, 2006, 04:51 PM

I agree with last krOnos comment fully.

I also think that USA is not that dominant. They're physically unstopable and that is all. Argentina for sure has better team work, Spain and Grece may be close too.

USA today wouldn't produce a team as good technically as the original dream team. Physically yes, but that is all.

Sometimes I even think some of the players have no clue what they're doing when attacking a zone or even defending against good team passing.

Greece is going to be very tough to beat.

The coach Yannakis as a player was one of the most competitive individuals I've ever seem playing. In the level of Jordan, Chamberlain, Petrovic (yes, he too), etc. They'll have a good game plan that I don't doubt.

However, I agree this time USA team has prepared properly for the challenge. Coach K asked D'Antoni to join in his staff, this guy was a legend in Italy back in the 80s as a player and as a coach lter. He won everything in Europe and knows and understands FIBA basketball as well as the best. The player made sacrifices and are fit. They've learnt too. I also think they respect opponents a bit. At least they know wht happened to the last two USA national temas in the olimpics 2004 and worlds 2002.

I think is going to be real fun and also, much more close than what everybody thinks.

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 04:04 AM

Wow, end of the third quarter and Greece leading by 12 points

Greece 77- USA 65

10 minutes to go....

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 04:32 AM

101-95

Greece to the finals!!!

I shouldn't analyze this result so early. But my guts tell me that tactically the game has progressed overseas much further than in the US. US basketball player are still incredible. But other international player are almost as good, but are so much better coached.

Next game in spanish, Argentina-Spain, any bets?

angelmb · Sep 1, 2006, 05:19 AM

I missed the Greece-USA game, so I can say 'nada' about it. But one has to wonder that Larry Bird opinions about USA Team after the Indianapolis WC are kinda true.

cenutrio, es una pena que no puedas seguir los partidos, aquí los emite un nuevo canal por TDT llamado 'la Sexta', los comentaristas son espléndidos, Andrés Montes y con él Juanma Iturriaga y De La Cruz, a diferencia de otros eventos deportivos televisados en España, esta gente entiende y se le ve honesta, muy lejos del típico periodista deportivo 'fanboy mode' que tanto prolifera por aquí…

Saludos por Holanda!

Eug · Sep 1, 2006, 06:21 AM

Heh. That's awesome. Greece has no NBA players.

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 06:42 AM

Listening the Argentina-Spain on the online spanish radio right now. Very, very even game.

I know about Montes and he is got a quite "peculiar" style, but he surely knows about basketball. Iturriaga was my old time favorite basketball player, what a beautiful way to run the court. It was the spanish James Worthy, but without dunking.

Actually, I just remembered a nice basketball history. Basically in the mid-80s there was a huge rivalry between Real Madrid and Cibona Zagreb (my god what a team, the two Petrovic brothers were amazing). Anyhow, Cibona beat regularly the hell out of Real Madrid (this is like the Boston Celtics of european basketball), Iturriaga was the guy to defended Drazen petrovic and to be honest, he was always in trouble. After a couple of seasons of failure, Real Madrid signed Petrovic (better with him than against him) and Iturriaga was dropped (I was really down about it). Anyhow, there was still one game to be played, the Europe recup final. A heck of a game. There were two overtimes, Petrovic scored 63 points, Real Madrid won and Iturriaga in the very last play of the game and of his career in Real Madrid dunked the damn ball hard with so much passion.

He had played with Real Madrid for 10-12 seasons, he was rejected because the coach staff was sure that the bad relationship between iturriaga and Petrovic will hurt the team, but at the end he won his last game, and in a fast transition instead of laying, he slam dunked... few times I have jumped of joy like that.

Besides a great player, he is a very well spoken, with nice technical articles in El pais. Yes, he is a classic, a kind of Bill Walton spanish way.

De la Cruz. Yes, he is spanish basketball history too, no doubt.

However, I'm a estudiantes demente ("fan"), go figure why I always liked iturriaga.

Un saludo angelmb

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 07:01 AM

Argentina 56- España 60

last quarter to go...

Dakar · Sep 1, 2006, 07:15 AM

Originally Posted by cenutrio

I shouldn't analyze this result so early. But my guts tell me that tactically the game has progressed overseas much further than in the US. US basketball player are still incredible. But other international player are almost as good, but are so much better coached.

You need at big asterisk that says at FIBA.

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 07:22 AM

Yeah, the rules of the International Basketball Federation.

I don't see foreign players arguing about NBA rules whenever they join the league.

It is a lousy argument and using them is not gonna help US basketball to lead the sport again.

Dakar · Sep 1, 2006, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by cenutrio

Yeah, the rules of the International Basketball Federation.

I don't see foreign players arguing about NBA rules whenever they join the league.

Well that's not the same... I'd be curious to see an international competition NBA style though.

Originally Posted by cenutrio

It is a lousy argument and using them is not gonna help US basketball to lead the sport again.

I'm not using to defend the US's sub-par performance. I'm saying you can't judge the quality of international players vs. US ones based on a style of play the US has little practice in (Any more than you can judge the quality of international players in the NBA by their rookie campaigns).

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 07:32 AM

Spain beats Argentina!!!!

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 07:34 AM

Argentina 74-Spain 75

Fight for the gold: Greece-Spain
Fight for the bronce: Argentina-USA

Dakar · Sep 1, 2006, 07:35 AM

Gotta pick Spain & Argentina, respectively.

angelmb · Sep 1, 2006, 07:51 AM

Gasol got an ankle damaged at the very last minute of the match, highly uncertainly his presence in the final. A pity.

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 07:55 AM

Greece is looking very good. Argentina may be more hunger for the bronce thant the US, it was a huge blow.

Anyhow, this is great for basketball. Four incredible talented teams so even.

cenutrio · Sep 1, 2006, 07:57 AM

The two years before the olympics will be troublesome for the US. Now, they have to qualify for the 2008 olympics in Venezuela, a very anti-USA crowd. Again, a huge blow.

Dakar · Sep 1, 2006, 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by cenutrio

The two years before the olympics will be troublesome for the US. Now, they have to qualify for the 2008 olympics in Venezuela, a very anti-USA crowd. Again, a huge blow.

Yes, I do remember that! That will not be fun.

Eug · Sep 1, 2006, 08:05 AM

1) Greece
2) Spain
3) Argentina
4) USA

spacefreak · Sep 1, 2006, 12:26 PM

Originally Posted by cenutrio

The two years before the olympics will be troublesome for the US. Now, they have to qualify for the 2008 olympics in Venezuela, a very anti-USA crowd. Again, a huge blow.

They should be fine. This team of 23-year-olds and coaching staff was just put together. Another year or two of playing together and I think they'll show some of the cohesion of the other international teams that have been playing together for significantly longer periods.

I was a bit upset with their defense against Greece, though. They'd been able to clamp down when needed. Not this time.

They'll be back, + Kobe.

iREZ · Sep 1, 2006, 01:02 PM

thing ive noticed between us basketball and overseas ball is that the us has a set coaching style of teaching guards strictly the guards position and teaching big men strictly the big men position only, whereas overseas ball teaches everybody the same. big men should be able to handle the ball, and short guards should be able to score down low. this makes overseas players have an overall advantage seeing how theyre more complete players vs position players. thats why dirk could run the break and parker was the leader of all guards scoring in the paint, not to mention nash being an unbelievable from anywhere on the offensive end.

as for defense, the us system teaches solo defense a lot more than team defense where as overseas does the exact opposite. thats why players like nash and dirk struggle on the defensive side in their respective nba teams but seem to be ok when playing fiba ball.

just one self proclaimed hoopers analyzation.

spacefreak · Sep 1, 2006, 01:09 PM

Originally Posted by iREZ

thing ive noticed between us basketball and overseas ball is that the us has a set coaching style of teaching guards strictly the guards position and teaching big men strictly the big men position only, whereas overseas ball teaches everybody the same. big men should be able to handle the ball, and short guards should be able to score down low. this makes overseas players have an overall advantage seeing how theyre more complete players vs position players. thats why dirk could run the break and parker was the leader of all guards scoring in the paint, not to mention nash being an unbelievable from anywhere on the offensive end.

as for defense, the us system teaches solo defense a lot more than team defense where as overseas does the exact opposite. thats why players like nash and dirk struggle on the defensive side in their respective nba teams but seem to be ok when playing fiba ball.

just one self proclaimed hoopers analyzation.

Solid points, but there are US players who can do the same. Kevin Garnett, Kobe, LeBron, Carmelo - these guys are pretty versatile.

The US doesn't really have that pure shooter, but the addition of Kobe will help.

As for team defense, the US will be better. Like I stated, this is a pretty young team and staff. Once we see them together for a year or two, they should be markedly improved as a unit.

Dakar · Sep 1, 2006, 01:10 PM

Michael Redd. There's your pure shooter.

iREZ · Sep 1, 2006, 03:49 PM

ray allen anybody?

Dakar · Sep 1, 2006, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by iREZ

ray allen anybody?

Won't play with Kobe.

Person Man · Sep 1, 2006, 06:50 PM

Ok, so Greece won against the U.S.

My father, who was born in Greece, and is over there right now, can't understand how his home country beat the United States. He says "The U.S. basketball team is the best in the world! This game had to have been fixed!"

He said even if he had $10,000 to bet on the game, he would have bet it all on the U.S. team. And this coming from the guy who usually thinks anything Greek is automatically the best.

ShortcutToMoncton · Sep 1, 2006, 07:00 PM

No.

The difference here is the same that it's been for much of the NBA for the past 10 years, and the same that it's been for Team USA for the new millenium - the crop of young, rich, egotistical point guards who commit themselves to defeating the opposing team entirely by themselves.

Carmelo? Has he ever seen a shot he didn't like at the worlds? He doesn't create plays - he receives passes, and shoots the ball. It might as well be automatic. How about Dwayne Wade or bron-bron consistently trying to "take the game into their own hands." As every other competition lately, USA plays exclusively on the individual level - and no one can deny that a good team beats individual skill almost every time.

Where are the big men on Team USA? Yes, the international game is different, but this is the only high-level team that is controlled almost exclusively by the point/shooting guards. You can talk about Garnett (or even Shaq, who's a moot point - he's never done well in international ball) all you want, but you've got guys like Elton Brand and Chris Bosh (ie. Garnett light) and Dwight Howard barely getting touches and putting up numbers that pale to mediocrity in comparison with their NBA stats. I don't know if they even had any plays to run for the big men! Look at the defense - Greece shoots 60-odd percent and they're a defensive team? Where's the grit and team defense now?

Anyways, yeah.

greg

cenutrio · Sep 2, 2006, 08:02 AM

USA bronce

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 06:14 AM

Final half time

Greece 23- Spain 43

wow...still 20 minutes to be played but looking good for the spaniards

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 06:15 AM

Not a single NBA player

(Gasol doesn't play, he broke a foot bone while playing against Argentina)

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 07:14 AM

Spain is basketball world champions!!!

Greece 47- Spain 70

angelmb · Sep 3, 2006, 08:24 AM

Awesome performance.

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Awesome performance.

Si, ahora a celebrarlo...

pasalo bien!

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 08:27 AM

Originally Posted by angelmb

Awesome performance.

Si, ahora a celebrarlo...

pasalo bien!

angelmb · Sep 3, 2006, 01:49 PM

Decir que a falta de indumentaria apropiada de la selección tengo puesto un pantalón corto del Estu (el modelo John Smith negro y amarillo con el logo de Correos)

Lo bonito ha sido ver de nuevo a todas esas leyendas con las que crecimos… hoy han emitido un gran resumen del partido entre España y USA del mundial de Colombia' 82, ¿quien lo ha comentado?, 'matraco' Margall nada más y nada menos.

Next stage: Eurobasket championship @ Madrid, so Euro mates beware !!

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 01:57 PM

hahaha

two dementes in macnn forums, what are the chances?

Have fun.

I'm super happy for Pepu (the spanish head coach...)

It seems his dad died yesterday of a long illness. Instead of telling the staff or players, he kept it quite to himself to not disrupt the concentration. It was already too emotional since Gasol was out for the last game.

Anyhow, they won over all the odds. It is awesome!

angelmb · Sep 3, 2006, 03:17 PM

Originally Posted by cenutrio

hahaha

two dementes in macnn forums, what are the chances?

Have fun.

I'm super happy for Pepu (the spanish head coach...)

It seems his dad died yesterday of a long illness. Instead of telling the staff or players, he kept it quite to himself to not disrupt the concentration. It was already too emotional since Gasol was out for the last game.

Anyhow, they won over all the odds. It is awesome!

Truth be told I am a Penya supporter, but well, the Estu is such a cool team (and idea behind the team) that almost everyone has a great liking for it.

You are right about Pepu dad. I couldn't say it better, Pepu deserved this huge victory being such a great coach… far from the annoying typical 'I am the start of this team' kind of head coach. I guess he is not going to teach History (?) at the Ramiro de Maetzu for a long time

So, Spain is kinda going nuts about this victory, which I like, it was about damn time a 100% spaniard team achieved something really great. Take that soccer world

cenutrio · Sep 3, 2006, 04:17 PM

Cheers to your post!

I watched a bit of "la vuelta" in Eurosport", it seems valverde gave a heck of a good demonstration today and leads. I'm happy for him after his bad luck in the Tour with that nasty fall.

Yes, the Peña is a heck of a team too. I still remember the game in Paris against the Lakers in (1991?), they just lost by a point. The Lakers had them all, Magic, Worthy, Scott, etc..., the coolest play was Villacampas fake on Scott... so cool! Fifteen years later we have managed to reach heaven (basketball speaking I mean

Dakar · Sep 4, 2006, 01:05 AM

Congratulations, Spain. Quite the accomplishment without the help of Pau Gasol.