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besson3c · Sep 2, 2006, 11:09 PM

I've heard that some owners do this sort of thing. Anybody here? Care to explain the rationale behind this sort of thing?

turtle777 · Sep 2, 2006, 11:59 PM

Oh, no, wait, wrong thread.

-t

Spliffdaddy · Sep 3, 2006, 12:22 AM

Depends on the breed.

I'm guessing that Pit Bull Terriers would look like total wusses if they had a tail.

Ironically, Poodles would look tougher if they retained their tails.

subego · Sep 3, 2006, 12:26 AM

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

Ironically, Poodles would look tougher if they retained their tails.

Just mangier.

Ours was docked before we found it. Had it been up to me I couldn't dream of allowing something like that, but I'd be lying if I said it didn't look better.

SpaceMonkey · Sep 3, 2006, 12:36 AM

No, but I cut off his balls.

screamingFit · Sep 3, 2006, 09:00 AM

There is no need to have painful, cosmetic surgery done to an animal. There's a reason why dogs have tails and ears in the shape and length they come in, you know.

It's nothing more than mutilation.

KeriVit · Sep 3, 2006, 10:09 AM

We had it done to a Doberman about....20 years ago. But he wasn't real fond of the "ear brace" to make them stick up, so his ears flopped anyway.

I'm not real sure why we had it done, never occurred to me. I suppose it was because he was of champion lines and would eventually breed.

Would I do it today? Nah, probably not. I wouldn't have a dog for breeding, I get all my pets "fixed".

ThinkInsane · Sep 3, 2006, 11:32 AM

My dobe had both his ears and his tail done. My current dog, a boxer has his tail but not his ears. If I'd got him as a puppy, I would have had his ears done as well. I like the look.

besson3c · Sep 3, 2006, 11:37 AM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

My dobe had both his ears and his tail done. My current dog, a boxer has his tail but not his ears. If I'd got him as a puppy, I would have had his ears done as well. I like the look.

Does it like your look?

Would you like it if somebody did such an act to you against your will so that you would look better in their eyes?

ghporter · Sep 3, 2006, 11:57 AM

I'm going to get a doberman someday, call him "Fluffy" and leave his ears and tail in factory condition. I can just see it, some uninvited guest enters my house, sees a big hound-looking dog and says to himself "easy pickings". Until Fluffy goes into action of course.

Millennium · Sep 3, 2006, 12:13 PM

My current dog, a Papillon, is not of a breed which is customarily docked. We haven't docked his ears or tail either, and have no intention of doing so.

When I was younger my family's dog, a Brittany Spaniel, was of a breed that often has its tail docked. We didn't do this, but when we adopted her, her tail had already been docked. We assume this must have been done by the previous owner.

tooki · Sep 4, 2006, 12:55 PM

I think pit bulls with natural ears and tails look very cute. Cropped ears look strange to me.

tooki

Nodnarb · Sep 4, 2006, 01:37 PM

Do people dock their dog's tail and trim the ears for purely looks or is there some other reason behind it?

euchomai · Sep 4, 2006, 04:58 PM

Originally Posted by Nodnarb

Do people dock their dog's tail and trim the ears for purely looks or is there some other reason behind it?

I've heard (but not ever looked it up) that the dogs breeds that typically have docked ears and tail were bred for fighting and protection. Without the extra stuff for another animal or person to grab. Basically streamlined for maximum efficiency and less to grab hold of.

loki74 · Sep 4, 2006, 06:09 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Would you like it if somebody did such an act to you against your will so that you would look better in their eyes?

Well, I might not like it. But given that said somebody feeds me, loves me, walks me, plays with me... I could get used to domesticated life.

But there's really no way to know, because I've never been there. Next time I'm somebody's pet, and they decide to change me, I'll let you know.

subego · Sep 4, 2006, 07:57 PM

Originally Posted by KeriVit

I'm not real sure why we had it done, never occurred to me. I suppose it was because he was of champion lines and would eventually breed.

Can't say I see the connection. Do dobermans procreate in their ears?

Originally Posted by screamingFit

There's a reason why dogs have tails and ears in the shape and length they come in, you know.

Overbreeding?

Originally Posted by Nodnarb

Do people dock their dog's tail and trim the ears for purely looks or is there some other reason behind it?

With poodles it's a look thing. They can only grow the puffball at the base. Towards the tail their fur (which is more like hair) gets stringy.

Originally Posted by besson3c

Would you like it if somebody did such an act to you against your will so that you would look better in their eyes?

Men who get their foreskin lopped off seem to deal with it okay.

Yes. I know parents who had this done more so their children would "fit in" rather than hygiene.

ThinkInsane · Sep 4, 2006, 08:07 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Does it like your look?

Would you like it if somebody did such an act to you against your will so that you would look better in their eyes?

Until doggies get thumbs and PhD's and what-not, I'll not concern myself about it.

Yes yes, I know all the arguments against docking ears and tails. I don't find them particularly compelling, nor do I plan to. Funny the same people that think it's cruel to crop a dogs ears don't hesitate to CUT HIS BALLS OFF. I'm just sayin'...

besson3c · Sep 4, 2006, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by loki74

Well, I might not like it. But given that said somebody feeds me, loves me, walks me, plays with me... I could get used to domesticated life.

But there's really no way to know, because I've never been there. Next time I'm somebody's pet, and they decide to change me, I'll let you know.

Apply some common sense here. It would be a very painful act. Why would the animal feel indifferent towards the act, or be rational to think that it is a decent tradeoff?

besson3c · Sep 4, 2006, 08:33 PM

Originally Posted by ThinkInsane

Until doggies get thumbs and PhD's and what-not, I'll not concern myself about it.

Yes yes, I know all the arguments against docking ears and tails. I don't find them particularly compelling, nor do I plan to. Funny the same people that think it's cruel to crop a dogs ears don't hesitate to CUT HIS BALLS OFF. I'm just sayin'...

Spaying/Neutering is different thing altogether, as it is to prevent having to put to sleep the literally tens of thousands of animals that need to be put to sleep each year because their owners don't bother to do so.

Yes, it seems rather cruel, but putting an animal just to sleep just because an owner can't be found for it is probably worse.

besson3c · Sep 4, 2006, 08:35 PM

Originally Posted by subego

Men who get their foreskin lopped off seem to deal with it okay.

Yes. I know parents who had this done more so their children would "fit in" rather than hygiene.

The difference is, male circumcision is supposedly to benefit the male. Docking tails and the like is done to benefit the owner. There is no functional benefit to the animal in having a docked tail.

loki74 · Sep 4, 2006, 09:19 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Apply some common sense here. It would be a very painful act. Why would the animal feel indifferent towards the act, or be rational to think that it is a decent tradeoff?

I can't say for ears, but I am fairly certain that for tails a string is tied to "cut" off the end of the tail; my understanding is that this is fairly drawn out and much less painful and gruesome than going in with a cleaver.

Also, docking is done (as far as I know) only to young dogs by trianed and licensed professionals. Most of them probably don't even remember it for long.

And why don't you try to use some common sense? (not to accuse you of having any, of course). One, I never said any animal would feel indifferent towards the act, or be rational to weigh the outcomes.

You asked us how we would feel about it. I answered, how I would feel about it. I would not be indifferent, no, but I sure would be able to see the so called tradeoff, and accept that.

Finally, if the dog is not rational to understand the tradeoff, what makes you think they are going to worry about the pain they had X years down the road?

The difference is, male circumcision is supposedly to benefit the male. Docking tails and the like is done to benefit the owner. There is no functional benefit to the animal in having a docked tail.

Ahuh. The animal is there to benefit the owner. Hence, this stuff is done to benefit the owner.

Also, it is my understanding that docking can prevent things from getting caught in the tail and causing pain or infection. Of course, this is only going to be a problem for dogs who spend a lot of time outdoors, specifically in nature.

Let me finish by saying, if I bred a dog, I probably wouldn't dock the tail or ears. I really don't think that a caring master would do that just because they think it looks nicer. The fact is, most of us get the mutt from the breeder already docked, because the thing can only be done to a young puppy (otherwise it may not heal properly). Frankly, I doubt most of us would know the difference or give a hoot for that matter.

subego · Sep 4, 2006, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by besson3c

The difference is, male circumcision is supposedly to benefit the male. Docking tails and the like is done to benefit the owner. There is no functional benefit to the animal in having a docked tail.

You didn't ask "would it be a good thing?" You asked "would you like it?"

I brought up circumcision as an example where most people to whom it's done end up not giving a ****.

This is completely regardless of why it was done in the first place.

ghporter · Sep 5, 2006, 08:00 AM

Originally Posted by loki74

Also, docking is done (as far as I know) only to young dogs by trianed and licensed professionals. Most of them probably don't even remember it for long.

It's SUPPPOSED to only be done by qualified professionals, but there's no guarantee that this requirement is satisfied.

And let's get to a related issue: circumcision. Yes that is related, because I certainly don't remember having it done (I was about 3 days old) but I'm not happy it was. I don't know what I'm missing, and there's no way for me to know. Maybe I'd be a lot happier unclipped... But the point is that there is a function for this particular anatomical feature, and not having that feature means that the function is not performed, be it a foreskin or a tail.

MacNStein · Sep 5, 2006, 08:32 AM

Originally Posted by besson3c

Spaying/Neutering is different thing altogether,

No it isn't. YOU just don't want the inconvenience of dealing with a dog that isn't "fixed". You're just another lazy damned owner. Bet your dog would love to still have his nuts, but being such a cruel monster, you had them chopped off.

You sicko.

moonmonkey · 08:52 AM

Docking tails and snipping the tendons in the ears should be illegal.
In the US they do it to great danes and its disgusting.

Normal great dane

US great Dane

GROSS.

subego · Sep 5, 2006, 02:30 PM

Originally Posted by ghporter

It's SUPPPOSED to only be done by qualified professionals, but there's no guarantee that this requirement is satisfied.

And let's get to a related issue: circumcision. Yes that is related, because I certainly don't remember having it done (I was about 3 days old) but I'm not happy it was. I don't know what I'm missing, and there's no way for me to know. Maybe I'd be a lot happier unclipped... But the point is that there is a function for this particular anatomical feature, and not having that feature means that the function is not performed, be it a foreskin or a tail.

If you're interested in hearing the rare opinion of someone who does know what both is like, I can tell you it's no big deal.

Sure, it used to be more sensitive, but thinking that sensitivity must have made things better I'm convinced is a "grass is greener" phenomena.

That's my sample of one, FWIW.