[macintologist]

I don't get why people are so pissed at US corporations outsourcing their call centers to India. I just got off the phone with Real Networks phone support to cancel my free trial to Superpass. The man on the phone was Indian (or perhaps Pakistani) and he was very polite, I had no problem understanding him at all, I was very pleased overall with the calling experience. Usually whenever I call US-based customer support they treat me like I'm a moron or something. This man operating out of India did not treat me in a such a way and completely respected my request to cancel the free trial period.

[Cody Dawg]

I'll tell you why:

Because when they require your credit card number to handle an in-warranty issue (for example, HP) you're giving your credit card out to an unknown foreign entity who may not be employed by the company you are calling and is instead subcontracted.

Secondly, if you do give out your credit card it is an international charge and the laws about credit card protection are very limited for international purchases.

For example, HP wanted my credit card to take care of an in-warranty printer issue. They required a credit card to swap my brand new printer that was a piece of crap for a remanufactured one coming from Georgia. They refuse to swap without a credit card (same as Apple with their swaps of batteries, etc.) I gave it to them. Ten days later I received a phone call from Bank of America that showed that they had charged $404 per day...for ten days in a row to the tune of over $4000.

I wanted to file a dispute and Bank of America was willing to help, but then it became a different issue because it turned out that because it was HP India that had charged my card it wasn't so easy to simply reverse it.

I actually had to call HP in Palo Alto California, executive offices, and have an attorney speak to them.

Otherwise HP India said, "We will get your credit back on your card within 60 days." 60 DAYS. That meant that HP India was going to keep my credit card's money - and my interest after 30 days - for no reason at all other than that they a) Made a mistake and/or b) It was intentional - think about how much money a company like HP could make on the float of funds not belonging to them.

And there, kiddies, is a real-life example of "what the big deal is."



P.S., Companies like GE and other credit card companies routinely use India outsourced companies to process our financial data - even though it means giving out bank information, credit card information, addresses, and social security numbers.

Talk about lack of national security - there you go.

[Mastrap]

I try not to deal with companies that operate their customer support out of India. Our business bank (HSBC) tried and pull that stunt on us, after three or four frustrating phone calls to people who were trying hard but just not qualified enough we decided to walk and opened new accounts elsewhere.

There were other reasons on top of this, but the support issue didn't fill me with confidence.

[Cody Dawg]

Good for you, Mastrap.



Yes, we had a credit card with GE and when we had to call and found out that our information was in India with an outsourced company (they specifically said that they worked for a company that GE hired to handle customer calls) we closed the account and told them why and when they tried to get our business back we called the head of the United States operations and told them why we would never use them again.

[cwosigns]

The reason I don't like dealing with them is that, due to my hearing loss, I have a hard time understanding people with accents.

[waxcrash]

I've only dealt with an Indian call center once. I had to call the customer service for one of my credit cards. I had no problems and understood the representative perfectly.

[RAILhead]

Me no can unnastan watey sayin summatime.

[Spliffdaddy]

Be very suspicious if you cancel something over the phone and they don't give you a hard time about it.

It usually means they didn't really cancel it. They just told you they did.

[tooki]

Amazon.com's India-based call centers are awful, though not as bad as they come. The people were able to (slowly) answer my question, but they were hard to understand, with a bad connection and people who were just reading FAQs.

D-Link's support in India was OK.

But I've never gotten excellent support from an Indian call center, as I frequently get from American call centers. (Want an example of good support? Call Cingular's tech support number after-hours. The night-shift folks know their stuff, and aren't swamped with calls, so they take their time to really set things straight.)

tooki

[itai195]

I just don't like calling customer service, ever. I've had good and bad experiences with Indians and Americans. If you want an example of great service from an Indian call center, check American Express. If you want an example of poor service from both Indians and Americans, try Dish Network

To tell you the truth, I had a harder time understanding those Texans that Dell used to have in their call centers than I have with most Indians I'm connected with.

[mitchell_pgh]

I've had good service from an Indian call center and VERY bad. Some simply don't understand what you are talking about... or respond to your comment with random gibberish.

The sad thing is, I've had the same type of service with companies in the US.

[Spliffdaddy]

I called Dish Network in order to get a replacement reciever to replace a dead one. They charged my credit card twice - and sent me 2 replacement recievers. Oddly, one of the replacements was DOA - so it worked out, kinda. I called them back and told them I was charged for 2 recievers when I only wanted 1. And I told them one of the 2 was DOA...so I was sending back 2 dead recievers. I asked for a refund of one of the charges - she said "no problem". I asked if she knew my credit card info - so it could be credited. She said something like "oh yeah, I might need that." I told her I didn't believe that she was going to credit my account, based on the fact that she didn't seem to know what she was doing. She reassured me she had it under control.

Naturally, I never did get a credit on my account. Funnier still, a week later a Dish Network guy showed up at my house, unannounced, to fix the dead reciever - that I already replaced. He had the wrong name, but *my* address. Something got mixed-up. A few days later Dish Network called to confirm that a repairman would be stopping by the following day. wtf. They had my name right, but the address was somewhere in Michigan.

I think that qualifies as bad customer service.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I called Dish Network in order to get a replacement reciever to replace a dead one. They charged my credit card twice - and sent me 2 replacement recievers. Oddly, one of the replacements was DOA - so it worked out, kinda. I called them back and told them I was charged for 2 recievers when I only wanted 1. And I told them one of the 2 was DOA...so I was sending back 2 dead recievers. I asked for a refund of one of the charges - she said "no problem". I asked if she knew my credit card info - so it could be credited. She said something like "oh yeah, I might need that." I told her I didn't believe that she was going to credit my account, based on the fact that she didn't seem to know what she was doing. She reassured me she had it under control.

Naturally, I never did get a credit on my account. Funnier still, a week later a Dish Network guy showed up at my house, unannounced, to fix the dead reciever - that I already replaced. He had the wrong name, but *my* address. Something got mixed-up. A few days later Dish Network called to confirm that a repairman would be stopping by the following day. They had my name right, but the address was somewhere in Michigan.

I think that qualifies as bad customer service.

100% prime screwed up.

[bstone]

Because. I. Cannot. Understand. Them. Period.

[Face Ache]

I'd really hate to be an Indian immigrant working in a call centre here. That would suck.

[bstone]

Do Americans work at the 7-11s in India?

[Spliffdaddy]

"But they speak English in India"

Yeah, they speak English in England, too. But I swear I can't understand a damn thing they're saying, either. I'm like 45 seconds behind what Benny Hill says.

[TETENAL]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

"But they speak English in India"

Yeah, they speak English in England, too. But I swear I can't understand a damn thing they're saying, either.

Well, then it's really your problem and not theirs.

[Spliffdaddy]

Slow down, dude, I'm in the south. I can't understand what you're saying.

[alligator]

Originally Posted by bstone

Do Americans work at the 7-11s in India?

No, we drive taxi's there.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy

I think that qualifies as bad customer service.

Dish's service is legendary I guess

[SSharon]

I was chatting with Apple's online live support and when the guy said good afternoon and it was 9pm by me I was overjoyed. It meant he was in california and when I asked him he confirmed that for me. Newegg also has great chat support.

I have called india a few times and never really had a problem though. I wanted them to replace a dead linksys router and even though he was reading off a script I could understand him fine. Once I told him "I'm not an idiot and I tried everything I know you are about to ask me to do" he sent me a replacement unit.

[CharlesS]

Not being able to understand them is only half the problem.

The worst thing is when they can't understand you.

I called Apple once back when they were still using India, and forget tech support. The guy couldn't even take down my mailing address to send me a replacement part. He couldn't wrap his head around the concept of a state (he wanted to call it "county") being represented by a two-letter abbreviation. He also couldn't make out the city name, even when I spelled it out letter-by-letter.

The thing was, they had my address on file already. But the guy had no idea what I meant when I asked him if he could just look up my address which was on file.

You could also hear a bunch of other guys loudly yelling things in the background in some other language, accompanied by a lot of Windows 98 system beeps. It sounded like utter pandemonium.

I've had other experiences with Indian tech support that weren't as bad as that particular one, but they weren't great, either. I can't imagine being a non-technical user and having one of these guys (who always seem like they're reading from a script) actually walk you through some complicated computer problem.

[Chuckit]

American tech support people suck bad enough. Indians tend to be even worse.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by itai195

Dish's service is legendary I guess

No sooner do I say that than my dish seems to stop working... great... karma is a bitch.

[Oisín]

I’ve never had to call tech support in India for anything, there’s just no outsourcing going on here in this part of the world. I’m guessing this has one main reason: while getting Indians to speak fairly recognisable English might be one thing, getting them to speak even remotely identifiable Danish would quite certainly be an altogether insurmountable task best left untried.

Still, Danish tech support can suck quite a bit, as well. Such as when you call your ISP’s tech support to let them know that your Internet suddenly stopped working about two hours ago and hasn’t come back—and you then spend the next ten minutes trying to explain to some idiot that you have no start button, that you are NOT using Windows XP, and that there exists such a thing as a Mac, which runs such a thing as OS X.

[Chuckit]

I always feel simultaneously sorry for and pissed with tech support people. They have to give their canned responses that will work for 95% of the idiots out there, but I ain't one of them.

[Obi Wan's Ghost]

I know for a fact that there are many Indian support people who are asking for credit card numbers and then sell credit card details in internet cafes to other Indians who want to make online purchases. The purchases will be small enough that most credit card owners will not do anything about it except throw their arms in the air and complain about it on a forum

Another thing, the Asian outsourcing thing is going to pop like a big mother ****er because companies are finding out that South Asian computer skills are overhyped by Indian tech companies that manage the outsourced labor. They have done so to increase the value of their shares. The reality is most of the workers can't do jack **** and when they can code or offer support it is because they are using reference manuals that they should have studied before they got their jobs. Their coding is buggy because they copy and paste things into place without a thought.

Case in point is Apple who trained up a bunch of guys and then gave up because Apple realized that their CVs were full of lies and they knew nothing.

[pheonixash]

There are no 7-11's in India.

[Cody Dawg]

What's funny is when you ask them for their name and they give a name like, "Bob" or "John."

Their name is obviously not Bob or John - they can hardly even say it correctly.

[mac128k-1984]

For me the reasons I don't like this stiff outsourced to india is two fold.

First my industry is moving my jobs over seas to cheaper help, i.e., I will be out of a job at some point. The logic behind this move is a little messed up. Companies argue that to compete in this new world order they need cheaper employees so the cost of their products/services can be competitive – fair enough. Except for one problem, if I’m out of work I’m not buying their products or services and the way things seem to go, I may make less money thus I still can’t afford their products. Multiply that by the thousands of people who have had this happen to and its not rosy picture. My view is in the long run by moving these jobs off shore is not only going to hurt themselves but the economy.

The second reason is getting help halfway across the world is generally spotty. I have to deal with India support all the time in my job. I log a problem with the application I’m responcibile for and they call me back at 5:00pm or later (I’m already gone for the day). I return there call in the AM, but I don’t hear anything until 5:00pm again. I’ve had better luck with email. The language barrier is easier when its email too.

[Zeeb]

I'm definately not a fan of foreign call centers either for all the reason mentioned above, but my roommate managed to help us solve a router problem with an Indian call center by just being patient.

Instead of just getting frustrated and angry over the phone (like me). He took a minute to ask the person's real name, where she lived and how work was. She then really went out of her way to help him (us). That probably wouldn't work for most Indian call center people though. I think working in any call center-foreign or domestic-is a hellish experience. As customers, I believe we all think we're just reasonable people getting screwed, but what they hear is an angry hothead.

Based upon what I have learned from this thread however, I'm not giving out my financial info over the phone.

[alligator]

Our company outsources work to India. While the people there really try to do good work, I'm just not impressed. What will happen to the cost of labor there in 10 years?

[moonmonkey]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

What's funny is when you ask them for their name and they give a name like, "Bob" or "John."

Their name is obviously not Bob or John - they can hardly even say it correctly.

Lots of people for whom English is not their primary language adopt English names during their initial language education, just like western people adopt Chinese names to help when learning Chinese.

Maybe they say it differently, it doesn't mean its not their name.

[Cody Dawg]

Okay. Yes, a person cannot say "John" without it sounding like "Gee-on" but, yes, I guess that must be that person's name.



Once my husband called back a certain extension for GE credit card and asked for a guy who called himself Bob. When the guy answered the telephone he said, "Hello, this is Jim." (Which sounded like "Jeem.") My husband said, "Uh, I'm looking for Bob." The guy hesitated and said, "Thees ees Bob. Can I elp you?"

[turtle777]

I found that they just stick to their script, and are totally lost if something happens that is not scripted out.

[rant_blog]
Once I got no satisfactory answer on a call and was not happy with them. I told them during the call. In the end, that idiot still asks me :"I hope that we solved all your problems today to your satisfaction". That's where I went off on him.

For Pete's sake, a trained monkey can read from a script, let's open some call centers in US zoo's.

-t

[ghporter]

A good experience with a call center based in India or Pakistan is an aberation. Typically, no matter how hard they try, the call center person's accent is too hard for the average U.S. caller to understand. Further, the lack of common social contexts means that there are a lot of "jargon" issues-Indian English is based on British English, but went its own way, so there are two levels of difference from American English.

And call centers in general employ people whose only contact with the supported product is the training they get before being put online. That's BAD. To make matters worse, they all use scripts-scripts written by people who generally have no hands on experience or perhaps no clue how to deal with a customer. I have had this problem with U.S.-based call centers too (they don't expect the customer to have a clue about any technical details about a product, so they treat customers like idiots), but a language/accent problem makes it much worse.

[SSharon]

Originally Posted by ghporter

A good experience with a call center based in India or Pakistan is an aberation. Typically, no matter how hard they try, the call center person's accent is too hard for the average U.S. caller to understand. Further, the lack of common social contexts means that there are a lot of "jargon" issues-Indian English is based on British English, but went its own way, so there are two levels of difference from American English.

I couldn't stop laughing when the last thing the guy from linksys told me was "hav a good won stephen, hav a good won."
Problem was solved and he was nice so what do I care.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by ghporter

A good experience with a call center based in India or Pakistan is an aberation. Typically, no matter how hard they try, the call center person's accent is too hard for the average U.S. caller to understand. Further, the lack of common social contexts means that there are a lot of "jargon" issues-Indian English is based on British English, but went its own way, so there are two levels of difference from American English.

If it's any consolation, we can't understand what they're saying either.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Doofy

If it's any consolation, we can't understand what they're saying either.

I didn't think so. The rhythm, pacing and often pronounciation typical of languages spoken in India and Pakistan are very different from those spoken in the UK and US.

[rozwado1]

I think that much of the frustration would be resolved if there was a way for the call centers to find out how tech savvy the caller is before they auto-send you to a level one to read a script.

As for the Indian call centers:: My girlfriend speaks Urdu and Hindi so I tried to let her speak to them natively a few times, but they aren't allowed to bc the calls are recorded and it's against policy to speak anything but English. Seems ridiculous.

I can't imagine how many upset customers go into racist uproars at the poor Indians that have to work at these places...

[ghporter]

rozwado1, did your girlfriend at least understand the native Urdu/Hindi speaker better than I might?

I don't have anything against the folks that man the phones-it's the companies and their policies that bug the snot out of me. My sister did outgoing phone solicitation for Olin Mills studios for a while. A SHORT while. That's because of the company policy about what she was supposed to do to the people she called. And a friend worked in a customer service phone center for Sears; she had to put up with lousy customers who blamed her for the fact that their freezer quit and all those steaks were going to spoil. I just don't get the corporate concept behind hiding behind some low-wage person who is only provided with a tiny bit of information and flexibility. I just don't get it.

[milhous]

i received a new chase credit card in the mail today and called to activate it. typically, card activation is done through an automated voice system and you use the keypad on the phone to authenticate yourself and the card. amex will even let you activate the card over the internet if you don't want to use the phone.

at any rate, calling chase to activate the card resulted in me punching some info on the keypad and then being forwarded to someone at an indian call center, where as most of you have said, the reception is terrible, and i could barely understand the lady that was talking to me. i did hear the part about the optional insurance protection, which i immediately declined, but i just felt that it was completely unnecessary to actually talk to someone to activate a card as i've never had to do that before.

seagate support also has call centers in india, and it took almost 2 months to get a hard drive replacement.

sooner or later, indian outsourcing is going to backfire.

[Doofy]

Originally Posted by milhous

sooner or later, indian outsourcing is going to backfire.

It already is. Here's what one UK bank is using for their promos:

With over 1650 branches in the UK, the facility to call branches direct and real people on the phones in the UK 24 hours a day - we really take the hassle out of day to day banking

http://www.natwest.com/personal01.as...NAL/DAY_TO_DAY

[Y3a]

The india call centers is should be a signal that the companies are cheapening EVERYTHING ELSE TOO! When I hear that indian accent I hang up, and replace the product with a differnt brand if I can.

[James L]

English is actually the common language in India, but as someone mentioned above it has become heavily accented and modified over the years, making it more difficult for us to understand them, and for them to understand us.

Funny story though, and a glowing example of the glass house principle....

I was up at our dispatch center one day, and a call came in from a Punjabi speaking person with shortness of breath. Their English was limited enough that the dispatch call taker opted to use their contracted translator service. From there, and for the next 10 minutes, the conversation became more and more confusing.

You see, this contracted translator service, which provides translation for hundreds of EMS and 911 systems, works on a network system, with contracted employees located all over North America available when needed.

What happened on this 911 call was that when our English speaking call taker could not understand the Punjabi speaking patient, he ended up being connected to a person who could translate Punjabi to English.... who lived in Texas!!!!

So, on the phone, we now had a Punjabi speaking patient, who could not understand the Punkabi speaking translator due to his thick Texas accent, with a bunch of non Punjabi speaking dispatchers trying to glean enough out of the call that they could send the appropriate resources to the patient!

Why complain about Indian call centers? North America has enough different dialects and accents that we can screw things up all by ourselves!!!

[rozwado1]

Originally Posted by ghporter

rozwado1, did your girlfriend at least understand the native Urdu/Hindi speaker better than I might?

Nope. She said it was some piss-poor english and even though she had the accent down, she couldn't comprehend what they were saying.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by James L

Why complain about Indian call centers? North America has enough different dialects and accents that we can screw things up all by ourselves!!!

Well, you made a point here:

In America, I expect everyone to speak English, not anything else.
In India, I expect everyone to speak [insert local idiom ] , but NOT English.

-t

[James L]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Well, you made a point here:

In America, I expect everyone to speak English, not anything else.
In India, I expect everyone to speak [insert local idiom ] , but NOT English.

-t

Yup, whereas the truth is that English is the one of the main languages spoken in India (Hindi and English are the nation's official languages). In addition to these, there are over 20 local languages, such as Punjabi.

[Oisín]

Correction: there are over 1,000 additional local languages spoken in India!