[Cody Dawg]

Ever have the sense of having done something previously or, as in my case, having dreamt it previously and now it happens in reality?

from Wikipedia

The term "déjà vu" (French for "already seen", also called paramnesia) describes the experience of feeling that one has witnessed or experienced a new situation previously. The term was created by a French psychic researcher, Émile Boirac (1851–1917) in his book L'Avenir des sciences psychiques (The Future of Psychic Sciences), which expanded upon an essay he wrote while an undergraduate French concentrator at the University of Chicago. The experience of déjà vu is usually accompanied by a compelling sense of familiarity, and also a sense of "eerieness," "strangeness," or "weirdness." The "previous" experience is most frequently attributed to a dream, although in some cases there is a firm sense that the experience "genuinely happened" in the past.

In recent years, déjà vu has been subjected to serious psychological and neurophysiological research. The most likely candidate for explanation, according to scientists in these fields, is that déjà vu is not an act of "precognition" or "prophecy" but is actually an anomaly of memory; it is the impression that an experience is "being recalled" which is false.

Think it has some sort of biochemical basis or is a paranormal experience?

It is very odd and it routinely happens to me.

[C.A.T.S. CEO]

Biochemical no, but paranormal maybe

Its jest a weird feeling, and i get it too.

[zerostar]

The best explanation i've heard (with scientific basis, no paranormal hoobeleygoop) is that the memory is "written" to the brain obviously as you experience it, usually it is an insignificant experience and is "written" to the short term memory, in deja vu the memory can be written to long term and short term or somewhere in-between so that you can no longer clearly recall the when of the long-term memory experience, the short term is clear to you but the longer term now feels like it happened previously.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by zerostar

The best explanation i've heard (with scientific basis, no paranormal hoobeleygoop) is that the memory is "written" to the brain obviously as you experience it, usually it is an insignificant experience and is "written" to the short term memory, in deja vu the memory can be written to long term and short term or somewhere in-between so that you can no longer clearly recall the when of the long-term memory experience, the short term is clear to you but the longer term now feels like it happened previously.

Great explanation!
Even though I am most often almost 100% sure that I experienced (dreamt or whatever) it long before, I can now understand that it could be impossible for me to be sure if the memory was written with a "false creation date"!!

[Millennium]

I'm with zerostar on this.

If there's one thing the human mind is exceptionally good at, it's recognizing patterns. In fact, it's somewhat overzealous about doing this; people often infer patterns and meanings in events that actually have no connection. Nowadays, most roulette tables at casinos feature a board that shows the results of the last 20-odd spins. The numbers are actually meaningless -the wheel doesn't know or care where it lands- but when they started putting up the boards, revenues from the roulette tables went up by 30%: people tried to gamble on "patterns" they saw in the numbers, but because those patterns didn't really exist, it didn't help them at all.

I believe that deja vu exists, but that it's nothing more than this. The mind draws connections between present and past experiences all the time, but the memories of past experiences can be indistinct and unclear, and so the connections drawn are really only as clear as the memories on the "other" end. The feeling we call deja vu is, I believe, just a case where the memory is particularly unclear, to the point where it might not even be a conscious memory anymore.

[zerostar]

hahah yeah exactly, there is every reason to think that it DID previously happen or you can swear you remember dreaming it, but if it works this way that is exactly what your brain should think.

Anyway that is one theory and its pretty interesting to think about, what if you cut your arm off then had deja vu of cutting your arm off, obviously that can't happen so usually it is trivial matters.

[Cody Dawg]

I disagree - and maybe I'm a crackpot, I admit.

I mean, intellectually I understand what you're saying up there.

But, for instance, this morning I had an experience that I specifically remember dreaming about several years ago.

Here's the scenario: Several years ago I was dating an executive who wanted to get married but who was ambivalent about wanting children. I wasn't sure I wanted more children anyway (I was a single mother then), but I also wasn't sure I wanted to continue a relationship with someone who specifically did not want children because 1) I already had a child living with me and 2) I didn't care for the fact that someone would dislike children - even though he was really great. I didn't like going into a more serious relationship where one person specifically was against having more children.

So, I was at his place up in Manhattan and spent the night and had a dream: I dreamt that I was married and in a new house and was pregnant and very happy and thinking about planting some new flowers in front of the house. I woke up and recounted the dream to him at breakfast that morning - I remember specific details about that breakfast such as pink grapefruit and scones and light snowflakes falling outside the windows - and later that day I decided that I wanted to end the relationship and flew home.

Fast forward to this morning. It's a beautiful day and I am here in my new home and I realized, after several days of rain, that today is a beautiful day to plant flowers. Then I realized that I'd dreamt that exact same experience of wanting to plant flowers around my new house several years previously...and I'm pregnant.



So, what do you say to that?

[Dakar]

I love how when I'm in the middle of an episode of deja vu I 'll exclaim, "Dammit deja vu!" and it'll just reinforce the feeling all the more (and infer that this has happened twice before?).

[MacNStein]

I keep a regular dream diary, and have for over 15 years. On many, many occasions (dozens) I've had dreams come to life.

I'd have an instance of deja vu, know that I'd dreamed it before, then looked up the dream in a diary.

It's not just "an anomaly of memory".

[Cody Dawg]

(((whew)))

I was beginning to think I needed an MRI for a brain tumor or something...thanks MacNStein...

So, those of you claiming it's biochemical or physiological, what do you say now?





(Dakar - your new sig is hilarious! )

[Face Ache]

I have a feeling we've done this thread before.


^^ And y'all knew I was going to post that.


Spooooky.

[zerostar]

If you have in-fact had the experience or a dream of a similar experience before then it could simply be the pieces falling into place for a memory recall to occur.

If you had not decided to buy the new house are you saying you wouldn't have had the recall or are you saying all your actions is life are pre-determined.

Lastly, if you are experiencing this quite often then you may need Anticonvulsants, which are commonly prescribed to individuals experiencing frequent deja vu, this cuts the occurrences down to just about nil. I stick by my original hypothesis, brain malfunction.

[badidea]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

So, those of you claiming it's biochemical or physiological, what do you say now?

I'd say that beautiful flower planting days are not that rare in a 9 months period!

Now let's please have a fight!



(meanwhile I try to dream of next weeks lotto numbers.....and then I try to have a deja-vu...)

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by badidea

(meanwhile I try to dream of next weeks lotto numbers.....and then I try to have a deja-vu...)

Perhaps someone can dig them out of a dream diary for you?

[Cody Dawg]

zerostar

Lastly, if you are experiencing this quite often then you may need Anticonvulsants, which are commonly prescribed to individuals experiencing frequent deja vu, this cuts the occurrences down to just about nil. I stick by my original hypothesis, brain malfunction.

Sure thing! I just rang my obstetrician and told her to prescribe those anticonvulsant drugs for me and my unborn baby, Dr. Zerostar.

[Visnaut]

I experience it once in a while, and for the most part i can chalk it up to either having a similar experience before, or to the explanation that zerostar posted.

However, on rare occasions, the deja vu i experience is so vivid that I can accurately tell what's about to happen, and watch it unfold before my eyes. It only lasts a few seconds, but it's quite intriguing.

[Cody Dawg]

From the Pacific Neuropsychiatric Institute

However, deja vu is a normal phenomenon occurring in 70 percent of the population and unless such phenomenological detail is obtained, patients' symptomatology may be misinterpreted.

Link

However, I did go look up epilepsy, zerostar, to see what you were referring to.

I noticed that frequent deja vu feelings may fall into the category of "partial seizure."

I read this:

Many (50-70%) cases of epilepsy have no known cause. For the remaining cases, there are many other events that may cause epileptic seizures:

Head injuries, such as a car accident or a fall.
Brain tumor
Stroke
Arteriosclerosis (fatty plaque build-up in arteries)
Brain injury before birth caused by infection or lack of oxygen to the brain
Infection, such as meningitis or encephalitis

Brain damage resulting from these events may cause a "scar" on the brain. This is where an epileptic seizure starts. At this time it is not known why a scar starts a seizure. There may be a genetic link for some types of epilepsy, but this is usually NOT the case.

Sometimes a seizure will be started ("triggered") by:

stress
lack of sleep
flashing lights or sounds (like from a video game or TV)
low blood sugar

Complex partial (psychomotor) seizures - A seizure with a change, not a loss, in consciousness. People may hear or see things or memories may resurface. Feelings of deja vu may also occur.

Link

I don't think I have epilepsy, but I suppose it's possible.

MacNStein and I had better both get some meds for it, pronto!

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Perhaps someone can dig them out of a dream diary for you?

Or, you can stop being a buttplug?

Either way...

[Cody Dawg]

I think dream diaries are really cool. I've written down some of my more memorable dreams. They frequently have a religious or moral basis. I love dreaming...it's like your brain decides to write some fiction and turn it into a movie for your very own self.

[Dakar]

Originally Posted by Visnaut

However, on rare occasions, the deja vu i experience is so vivid that I can accurately tell what's about to happen, and watch it unfold before my eyes. It only lasts a few seconds, but it's quite intriguing.

The feeling usually becomes more vivid the longer it runs but at no point do I know what's about to happen. Its more like watching something in slow-motion: You notice all the details and everything that is happening is clear.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by Visnaut

I experience it once in a while, and for the most part i can chalk it up to either having a similar experience before, or to the explanation that zerostar posted.

However, on rare occasions, the deja vu i experience is so vivid that I can accurately tell what's about to happen, and watch it unfold before my eyes. It only lasts a few seconds, but it's quite intriguing.

Yeah, it's really odd when you know what someone's going to say, or how they'll react.

The best is when you see a person after many years. You KNOW that they're in the next aisle at Borders (or some place similar), so you calmly position yourself with your back to them and wait. Soon they come around the corner and see you, and they'll say, "Hey man, it's been a long time". Without turning around, you just calmly respond, "Hi Jeff, buying another copy of the Tao Te Ching"? Which he just happens to be holding behind his back.

Great stuff.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by C.A.T.S. CEO

Biochemical no, but paranormal maybe

Its jest a weird feeling, and i get it too.

Biochemical.

BBC NEWS | Health | Deja vu 'recreated in laboratory'

[SSharon]

I don't really care what cause deja vu but apparently only 70% of the population experiences it and I have never met anyone that hasn't. Does anyone here want to admit that their brain is normal and that they have never experienced deja vu?

[olePigeon]

I've once dreamed of a specific location I was certain I've never seen or been to, then the next day we took a road trip and drove right past it.

A possible explanation is that I had seen it peripherally (and didn't know) and my subconscious brought it back up pending my excitement for the trip.

[Visnaut]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

The best is when you see a person after many years. You KNOW that they're in the next aisle at Borders (or some place similar), so you calmly position yourself with your back to them and wait. Soon they come around the corner and see you, and they'll say, "Hey man, it's been a long time". Without turning around, you just calmly respond, "Hi Jeff, buying another copy of the Tao Te Ching"? Which he just happens to be holding behind his back.

Although I have experienced deja vu to the point where I'll know what's about to happen, I can't say I've ever acted upon, or changed what I was about to do as a result of it. I'm simply watching the events unfold, from a rather skeptical point of view, and then see the details unfold exactly as I "remember" them.

Wouldn't that be the fine line between deja vu and precognition? Deja vu you simply have the sensation that you remember previously experiencing a current event. Precognition you percieve what is about to happen, and then conciouly act upon what you know, either passively or actively.

Originally Posted by SSharon

Does anyone here want to admit that their brain is normal and that they have never experienced deja vu?

Well, if we are to believe the statistic is correct, and that quite possibly 70% of the population experiences it, wouldn't the remaining minority be the abnormal ones?

[Cody Dawg]

And, anyway, I don't entirely buy that it's chemical...

I believe in things like bending spoons and psychic premonition, etc.

I think that as humans evolve our brains will become more and more adept at manipulating the physical through non-physical means.

[sek929]

I'll agree with MacNstein here.

I have very lucid dreams on a regular basis (at least once a month) and I have been told that such intense controllable dreams happen to a very small percentage of the population.

I too have had very freaky Deja-Vu that last between 5-10 seconds where I am able to "predict" what is about to happen. Usually these Deja Vus connect with a short dream I had, usually right before I wake up (hence my ability to remember them well).

I have no explanation, and zerostar's answer seems right, but if is simply a case of a memory fart then why does the Deja Vu happen at the beginning of a particular event and not the end?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Sure thing! I just rang my obstetrician and told her to prescribe those anticonvulsant drugs for me and my unborn baby, Dr. Zerostar.

Is your baby having the deja vu as well?!? veird.

[sek929]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

And, anyway, I don't entirely buy that it's chemical...

I believe in things like bending spoons and psychic premonition, etc.

I think that as humans evolve our brains will become more and more adept at manipulating the physical through non-physical means.

Also agreed, many waves and energy are passing through our brain right now, undetected. Perhaps with a little practice (or luck) some are able to tap into levels not yet explained by science.

I mean, Relativity and Quantum Physics don't mesh up, why should everything else?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by sek929

I have no explanation, and zerostar's answer seems right, but if is simply a case of a memory fart then why does the Deja Vu happen at the beginning of a particular event and not the end?

How would you KNOW when it happened if the memory "date and time" was written wrong in your brain?

[sek929]

How would a memory be written before I even experienced it?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by MacNStein

Or, you can stop being a buttplug?

Was joking with dude, sorry f the didn't clue you in, or perhaps you already read this already.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by sek929

How would a memory be written before I even experienced it?

That is the question isn't it ;-)

And how would you know you didn't already experience it if your brain is just telling you you didn't?

[sek929]

If during experiencing the event my memory was written falsely, then how would you explain knowing what is about to happen?

Surely you have a real reason for this.

[MacNStein]

Originally Posted by zerostar

Was joking with dude, sorry f the didn't clue you in, or perhaps you already read this already.

I knew you'd say that...

[sek929]

Originally Posted by zerostar

That is the question isn't it ;-)

And how would you know you didn't already experience it if your brain is just telling you you didn't?

That's the thing. My first instinct is that I did indeed experience this EXACT (that is the key word, exact) scene before while being awake. I then second guess by passing it off as Deja Vu and nothing more, but always I think if I so vividly remember the event than I HAVE to had seen it before......like in a dream I had right before waking.

Several times an event has directly related to a quick dream I had right before waking up (the ones you recall the best) but mostly they are vague occurances that bear resemblence to something I've experienced before.

In other words sometimes your theory holds true, and sometimes quite the opposite is the truth.

All IMHO of course.

[Cody Dawg]

Well, at least I'm not the only one who has epilepsy and/or seizures and needs anti-convulsant drugs per Dr. zerostar.

[sek929]

Most certainly not Cody, problem is, science can't explain everything.

But it is so retarded to suggest that prescription drugs will "take care" of Deja Vus. I enjoy them, in fact (as you can tell by my participation is this thread) I am fascinated by them.

Also, I have never experienced a Deja Vu when not entirely sober...this even includes Ibuprofen.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Well, at least I'm not the only one who has epilepsy and/or seizures and needs anti-convulsant drugs per Dr. zerostar.

I am no Dr. so yu can drop that, but there are people with a real problem, looks up case studies, people who have Deja Vu multiple times a day, and to them this is not a joke.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by sek929

But it is so retarded to suggest that prescription drugs will "take care" of Deja Vus. I enjoy them

Would you enjoy them on an ongoing 6-8 times daily basis? the drugs seem to counteract the anomaly in these peoples minds, no one knows exactly why but the chemical balance is real and certainly not a retarded fix.

[Cody Dawg]

Also, I have never experienced a Deja Vu when not entirely sober...this even includes Ibuprofen.

That's a very interesting point...

I've never had enough of them to remember whether or not I was under the influence of any kind of drug.

Maybe I do have epilepsy and I don't know it...

Deja vu episodes...

And has anyone ever found themselves staring and staring off into space but really unwilling (versus unable) to end that little moment of time?

That's very weird too...

You want to force yourself to end your self-imposed trance but you don't want to...

[Oisín]

Originally Posted by sek929

If during experiencing the event my memory was written falsely, then how would you explain knowing what is about to happen?

Surely you have a real reason for this.

The thing is, when you’re experiencing déjà vu, you don’t actually know what’s about to happen. You have a very strong feeling that you do, but it comes from the fact that you feel you instantly recognise it when it does happen.

When you’re experiencing déjà vu, try to actively separate in your brain the feeling of knowing what will happen next from the feeling of knowing that you knew what just happened was about to happen, so to speak. You’ll find that you can’t actually tell what’s about to happen until it’s already happened—you can never tell what will happen more than a second or two into the future (though the déjà vu experience itself can last several minutes in some cases).

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by sek929

but always I think if I so vividly remember the event than I HAVE to had seen it before......like in a dream I had right before waking.

I understand fully, it is not fun to question your mind, in-fact it is such a scary thing that people will conjure/belive almost anything to feel that it wasn't a "brain fart" as was so eloquently put before.

Several times an event has directly related to a quick dream I had right before waking up (the ones you recall the best) but mostly they are vague occurances that bear resemblence to something I've experienced before.

We are talking about 2 different occurrences then or your brain trying to draw a pattern and falsely making a connection.

In other words sometimes your theory holds true, and sometimes quite the opposite is the truth.

Again, 2 different things at work here.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Maybe I do have epilepsy and I don't know it...

Very possible, how often do you have these deja vu moments? An I am taking strictly deja vu as in "the experience of feeling that one has witnessed or experienced a new situation previously."

[Cody Dawg]

The thing is, when you’re experiencing déjà vu, you don’t actually know what’s about to happen. You have a very strong feeling that you do, but it comes from the fact that you feel you instantly recognise it when it does happen.

When you’re experiencing déjà vu, try to actively separate in your brain the feeling of knowing what will happen next from the feeling of knowing that you knew what just happened was about to happen, so to speak. You’ll find that you can’t actually tell what’s about to happen until it’s already happened—you can never tell what will happen more than a second or two into the future (though the déjà vu experience itself can last several minutes in some cases).

I'm very confused now...

[Cody Dawg]

zerostar: I only have them once in a while...

But one thing was interesting...

One of the articles that I was reading talked about muscle twitches. Two days ago I had some minor muscle twitching on my right forearm that was annoying - it was imperceptible to anyone else but I could feel it.

Then I had it again last night when I went to bed - along with a headache. Very minor, nothing anyone else would see, but annoying.

Woke up today and it was gone. I've had muscle twitches or fasculations before that were minor and always disappeared and I've chalked them up to lack of sleep (I seem to get them more frequently when I'm tired) or when I was drinking coffee.

Then this morning there was the deja vu - which I interpreted as having a relationship to a previous experience per a dream.

So, who knows, maybe I have some kind of epilepsy and I don't know about it, but I would never suppose that I did and I have had an MRI done of my head before and the neurologist never mentioned it. I think everyone has muscle twitches and deja vu feelings here and there... Or maybe not?

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

zerostar: I only have them once in a while...
So, who knows, maybe I have some kind of epilepsy and I don't know about it, but I would never suppose that I did and I have had an MRI done of my head before and the neurologist never mentioned it. I think everyone has muscle twitches and deja vu feelings here and there... Or maybe not?

Probably not then if it is not reoccurring, possibly even a slight chemical in-balance due to the pregnancy, I have twitches every few months, and have deja vu usually a few times a year. But I do believe one is linked to another in that the twitches are "misfires" of motor control and the deja vu is of memory/function control. that is IMO anyway...

May I ask why you had the MRI? typically twitches are more frequent after head trauma (as in my case) and so is brain damage/malfunctions.

You could also be having seizures of another kind, do you experience a few minutes of confusion afterwards of perhaps bruising you don't recall? If this is a real concern to you or seems to get worse there is no substitute for medical attention.

[Cody Dawg]

Had the MRI because I have benign relapsing remitting MS and they do an MRI every once in a while to check to see if it's progressed, which it has not - not in 20 years and no flare for about two years. When I do have a relapse I actually experience muscle fasculations or twitches on different areas of my body over a few days, again all imperceptible to anyone looking at me, but I can feel them.

[zerostar]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Had the MRI because I have benign relapsing remitting MS

While there is no link between MS and Deja Vu that I am aware of, you can't have myelin damage without effecting large portions of the CNS, your case may be mild but even mild can cause funny things to happen. This may explain your postings on here Just kidding I love and usually read them all

[Cody Dawg]

Actually, no laughing, you're right. There are mood swings with MS, though I've never had the ones that are manic (happy) that some MS people supposedly get. My mood swings are manifested by irritability for the most part. If I get some sleep then I feel better and I'm less irritable.

Anyway, I first noticed MS symptoms when I had numbness and tingling in my left arm and hand and later on in my feet. Then I had some muscle fasculations here and there. An MRI found some plaques, nothing very significant, and they remain unchanged. Oh, and heat makes me feel like crap so I have to stay out of the heat.