Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

zerostar · Sep 18, 2006, 10:15 AM

Well, Here is a new one...

My grandmother gets a letter in the mail that she won a lottery in Canada, inside was a $5,000 check. Supposedly the letter said to cash the check and send $4000 to this lawyer in Canada who will process the paperwork and take care of the fees and whatnot.

So she takes the check over to the bank, they tell her, well it SOUNDs like a scam but the check is real and they have no real way of ripping you off if you wait till it clears.

So she waits almost a week and 1/2 viola the $5000 is cashed and things look fine according to her bank.

She mails out the $4000 and is waiting for the paperwork to be processed. Her winning are supposedly $250,000. And yes she does play every lottery in every country that has a lottery, she has a real gambling sickness.

So my question is what could be the scam? I don't get up front how this would work unless the check was forged from lets say some company and the check you send was to some kid at a post box in canada who cashes it and gets away then the company comes after you for the $5000

Unfortunately she already did all this, I would have got a lawyer to handle it and have them deposit it and all that.

Any ideas?

Big Mac · Sep 18, 2006, 10:23 AM

It sounds like granny sends $4000 and then they clean out her bank account, but perhaps not.

Mastrap · Sep 18, 2006, 10:24 AM

A cheque can turn out to be a fake up to six months after it being cashed as far as I know. This might be a scam, but it could be your grandma just got lucky. Did she actually play this particular lottery?

Mastrap · Sep 18, 2006, 10:25 AM

Originally Posted by Big Mac

It sounds like granny sends $4000 and then they clean out her bank account

How?

Eug · Sep 18, 2006, 10:26 AM

Sounds like a scam. Why does she owe this unknown lawyer $4000 anyway? WTF?

Dakar · Sep 18, 2006, 10:27 AM

Yeah, something I'd keep an eye on.

zerostar · Sep 18, 2006, 10:29 AM

Exactly who send you money to send them money back? Flags went up as soon as I heard that.

Monique · Sep 18, 2006, 10:31 AM

It is a scam, she just lost $4,000. to people that scammed only older people because they think the world is honest. Since when do you send money to anyone when you win a prize at a lottery. And since when does it cost $4,000. to hire a lawyer for one hour, except in Berverly Hills. You should check with all the lawyers association in Canada, to see if you can find his name. You will not.

TETENAL · Sep 18, 2006, 10:38 AM

She's been scammed. Go to the police now.

Landos Mustache · Sep 18, 2006, 10:41 AM

Sounds like a scam and I would have thrown it out the second I got it.

zerostar · Sep 18, 2006, 10:50 AM

I told her to go to the police days ago, she was waiting to hear from the "lawyer" I suppose I will go for her today at some point. Sheesh.

Eug · Sep 18, 2006, 10:52 AM

Cancel the $4000 cheque now.

beb · Sep 18, 2006, 10:56 AM

While we're on the subject of mail lottery scams... Anyone ever heard or gotten a mailing from a company called Report Office Matters?

turtle777 · Sep 18, 2006, 11:07 AM

I would have kept the $ 5,000 in a savings account that gives me 4-5% interest and left the matter at that. If the check bounces after 6 months, I could still pay back the money and keep the interest.

-t

Pendergast · Sep 18, 2006, 11:08 AM

I think this needs to be investigated by the canadian autorities.

All lotteries in Canada are controlled by a Federal corporation.

Unless the lottery is part of one of the aforementionned provincial commissions, this is a scam.

You can have your grand-mother contact them about it. (see links for contact numbers).

drmbb2 · Sep 18, 2006, 01:33 PM

Scam all the way, and not a new one by any means. There are alerts about this kind of thing on the FTC web site, the BBB and so forth. Plus lots of news items (eg - random google hit - http://www.co.jefferson.co.us/news/n...em_T3_R160.htm ). When the check bounces, the bank will deduct the amount back from the casher's account - the casher is out of pocket for the cheque amount, and the fraud artist has it free, clear and virtually untraceable.

Actually, the bank that cashed the cheque should have been a little more aware of such a common fraud - was the check a draft on a Bank of Montreal account? That was common for awhile in S. Dakota (even after the Bank of Montreal issued alerts to US Banks that they should be on the watch for such bogus cheques). And, I may be wrong, but I believe it is bluntly illegal for any prize granting organization in Canada to ask for a fee to process the prize - free is free, no caveats to that under Canadian law.

zerostar · Sep 18, 2006, 01:38 PM

the check did clear after a few days

drmbb2 · Sep 18, 2006, 01:51 PM

Because US law requires that Banks make cashed cheque funds available in a "timely" manner, usually in 3-5 days. So it cleared the US Banks clearing house. It can take weeks for it to make it back to the Canadian issuing bank for payment, and then when payment is refused, it comes back to the US Bank who takes it back from the person who presented the cheque to be cashed.

Pendergast · Sep 18, 2006, 01:56 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

the check did clear after a few days

I really think your granny should go to the autorities on this.

Law enforcements of the US and Canada must certainly work together on this type of crime.

Mastrap · Sep 18, 2006, 03:07 PM

Originally Posted by drmbb2

Because US law requires that Banks make cashed cheque funds available in a "timely" manner, usually in 3-5 days. So it cleared the US Banks clearing house. It can take weeks for it to make it back to the Canadian issuing bank for payment, and then when payment is refused, it comes back to the US Bank who takes it back from the person who presented the cheque to be cashed.

Exactly. The bank should have told that to the person cashing the cheque.

Spliff · Sep 18, 2006, 08:08 PM

Why do old people always fall for these things? Do people get that stupid as they age?

bstone · Sep 18, 2006, 08:18 PM

Originally Posted by Spliff

Why do old people always fall for these things? Do people get that stupid as they age?

Obviously you know nothing about the elderly. Issues of lonliness and depression pervade the community. Financial problems plauge them. It's very understandable when you get to be that age.

Buckaroo · Sep 18, 2006, 08:33 PM

Quick. Make a stop payment on the $4,000 ckeck. It's a scam.

ghporter · Sep 18, 2006, 08:38 PM

Scam, definitely. Granny gets caught holding the bag for a bad $5000 check, while her GOOD $4000 check gets cashed and the bad guys walk away. Cancel the check NOW.

And the people who scammed Granny TARGET old folks like sharks target wounded fish. This is an evil thing for them to do and they are antisocial enough to not care.

Andy8 · Sep 18, 2006, 09:32 PM

It is a scam.

If she really won $250,000 in a legal lottery, then she could trace the results/prizes easily.

Is she playing the Candian lottery through the same agent for a long time or many agents at the same time?

Generally if you have won a major prize the agent would send you a letter asking what you want to do and giving you 2-3 options on claiming the prize. They would never ask for fees or involve lawyers.

waxcrash · Sep 18, 2006, 09:56 PM

This is an old con. They pull this same scam here in the states except two people will knock on your door dressed professionally and inform you that you've won the lottery. They make fake looking business cards, big check, etc to look as legit as possible. They then tell you there is a processing fee in order to get your money. The victim cuts a check a check and gives to the con men to never be seen again.

If you ever win any money, you never have to pay a processing fee.

bstone · Sep 18, 2006, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by waxcrash

This is an old con. They pull this same scam here in the states except two people will knock on your door dressed professionally and inform you that you've won the lottery. They make fake looking business cards, big check, etc to look as legit as possible. They then tell you there is a processing fee in order to get your money. The victim cuts a check a check and gives to the con men to never be seen again.

If you ever win any money, you never have to pay a processing fee.

Link?

SSharon · Sep 18, 2006, 10:26 PM

Is it also an option for her to close all her accounts at her bank and open them at a new one so when the check she cashed bounces they can't simply take it from her.

ChrisF · Sep 18, 2006, 10:49 PM

Originally Posted by bstone

Link?

Just Google lottery fraud and you'll find plenty. Google returned over 7,000,000 results- many describing a similar fraud mechanism to this one.

doubleshort · Sep 28, 2006, 11:01 AM

You definitely need to get your grandmother to cancel her check and go to the police NOW. We received the exact same letter with a check for $2,500. My husband called the lottery company on the letterhead after looking them up on the Internet. They said this is a scam and to give the police all the documents right away.

Your grandmother is going to lose her $4,000 if she does not cancel her check! The check for $5,000 will turn out to be fake or stolen, but her check IS real.

If you cannot convince her, then look up the company on the web, and call them from your grandmother's house. If you cannot get her to listen to you, talk to the police, and then speak to her bank about cancelling the check.

I feel so strongly about this I registered for this site just to post this reply.

Hope it goes well.

zerostar · Sep 28, 2006, 11:19 AM

Thanks for the concern!!!

She lost the $4000 cause she wouldn't listen to us. She is very gullible and now lost $4K over this.
She is dealing with the Bank now and trying to see what they can do.

Hopefully this will help people in the future.

turtle777 · Sep 28, 2006, 11:21 AM

That's sad. I hope she can get her money back.

Old people shouldn't have to learn that kind of lessons.

-t

Dakar · Sep 28, 2006, 11:21 AM

Oh man. That sucks.

Monique · Sep 28, 2006, 11:23 AM

That is too bad for her. But, she should feel bad for a while then life will go on and next time she won't trust people like that hopefully.

Eriamjh · Sep 28, 2006, 11:29 AM

Grandma better cancel the check and close her account, keeping the $5000 aside for when the check comes back as fake.

doubleshort · Sep 28, 2006, 11:38 AM

I am so sorry this did not turn out well, perhaps she can get her money back. If she is very gullible, as you say, you might need to speak with an attorney about getting a power of attorney for her, if she is competent to sign such a document. Many times, older people deteriorate mentally and it is very hard to tell as they get very good at covering for themselves.

Perhaps your family should meet with your grandmother and go over her finances. You may find she is sending money to bogus charities in amounts she cannot afford. Or she may not be able to handle her finances any longer. She may resent you for it at first, but it is for her own protection.

It is not easy, but it is better to prevent future problems. Many times when elderly people complain about their kids taking over their finances it is because they do not realize (or want to admit) they cannot do it any more.

Can you tell I have been through this with my own mother?

Please consider helping her now before it is too late.

starman · Sep 28, 2006, 11:51 AM

Only in Ameri....oh, wait....

SSharon · Sep 28, 2006, 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by doubleshort

I am so sorry this did not turn out well, perhaps she can get her money back. If she is very gullible, as you say, you might need to speak with an attorney about getting a power of attorney for her, if she is competent to sign such a document. Many times, older people deteriorate mentally and it is very hard to tell as they get very good at covering for themselves.

Perhaps your family should meet with your grandmother and go over her finances. You may find she is sending money to bogus charities in amounts she cannot afford. Or she may not be able to handle her finances any longer. She may resent you for it at first, but it is for her own protection.

It is not easy, but it is better to prevent future problems. Many times when elderly people complain about their kids taking over their finances it is because they do not realize (or want to admit) they cannot do it any more.

Can you tell I have been through this with my own mother?

Please consider helping her now before it is too late.

Good advice there.

ghporter · Sep 28, 2006, 03:19 PM

So doubleshort, how is this evolving? Has Gran' cancelled the check? Did her bank help her out?

Person Man · Sep 28, 2006, 06:22 PM

Originally Posted by zerostar

Thanks for the concern!!!

She lost the $4000 cause she wouldn't listen to us. She is very gullible and now lost $4K over this.
She is dealing with the Bank now and trying to see what they can do.

Hopefully this will help people in the future.

The bank is partially to blame because (according to you) they said "it looked like a scam but it wasn't." Shame on the bank if that is really true.

hayesk · Sep 29, 2006, 07:02 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I would have kept the $ 5,000 in a savings account that gives me 4-5% interest and left the matter at that. If the check bounces after 6 months, I could still pay back the money and keep the interest.

The bank may charge you interest or a processing fee.

turtle777 · Sep 29, 2006, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by hayesk

The bank may charge you interest or a processing fee.

I doubt that. You have done nothing wrong.

-t

Eug Wanker · Sep 30, 2006, 12:19 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I doubt that. You have done nothing wrong.

The bank will charge you. Banks are very good at keeping their money.

Originally Posted by zerostar

Thanks for the concern!!!

She lost the $4000 cause she wouldn't listen to us. She is very gullible and now lost $4K over this.
She is dealing with the Bank now and trying to see what they can do.

Hopefully this will help people in the future.

Sorry to hear that. Too bad she wouldn't listen to us (even though we are just random people on the net).

hayesk · Sep 30, 2006, 01:58 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

I doubt that. You have done nothing wrong.

Depositing a counterfeit check may be considered wrong in their view. Bottom line, you took some of their money for a length of time. They may want interest.