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Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 12:10 PM

We've bought a new home and today I heard a sharp sound and walked out into the main area and looked around and saw nothing - then noticed our tile floor which has a new huge 20 foot hairline fracture.

What is my level of concern here? I am going to call the builder of the home as it is under warranty, but how normal or abnormal is this? Seriously?

(Should I run screaming outside of the home?)

davidflas · Sep 23, 2006, 12:15 PM

If you're living in a newly build home, then that's a nature consequence of the house settling. Your builder should be willing to come back within one year of completetion of construction to correct those sorts of issues. If its an older home and just the floor is new, then I would be very concerned.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 23, 2006, 12:18 PM

maybe you should try and get a discount.....

in all seriousness, if it's a new house like your saying, and depending on the age, more new then old, and granted it's not near an edge of a hill, it's probably just settling in and the area where the crack formed found just the right spot to be, and the crack formed.

my house back home has tile flooring on the first level, and do to house settling there are minor cracks in the tile.

nothing to worry about cody, unless of course your over a hellsmouth and it is starting to open *shrug*

Alex

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 12:22 PM

Well, here's more to the story:

We have had an issue with standing water around the home. The soil is clay and doesn't absorb water very well. It's on the edge of a protected wetland with pond in the middle (about 1000 feet away) and the property slopes down to that protected natural wetland (which is beautiful). If you dig down about 20 feet you hit the natural water line and the hole will start to fill with water.

Anyway, so there was a problem with rain water and the roof: When it would rain the water would land on the side of the home off of the roof and not go anywhere because the ground couldn't absorb it and it didn't run off. They came out and put a new grade in so that now the water runs down towards the wetland/forest area and it's dried out quite nicely.

The home is well built, solid concrete, two stories, and I love the home - my first brand new home that I've ever owned.

However, when you hear that cracking sound and then see the crack that now runs all the way across the foundation, you get a little concerned (as a woman that is). My husband isn't home yet.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 23, 2006, 12:27 PM

since it's slanted, and the crack is all the way across the foundation as you say, then I suggest that you call someone and get them out pronto. this doesnae sound good

Railroader · Sep 23, 2006, 01:03 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

since it's slanted, and the crack is all the way across the foundation as you say, then I suggest that you call someone and get them out pronto. this doesnae sound good

2nded!

It's on a slab right? You could possibly have the soil/sand washed out from a part of your house due to the water issues you had and have empty voids under the slab.

The floor should have had expansion/crack joints built into it and you should NOT have had the floor crack anywhere but in those areas.

Sounds like you have a lemon of a house no matter how well you think it's built.

And a good contractor would have seen the drainage issues. you should never have had a problem with that.

zerostar · Sep 23, 2006, 01:06 PM

Is this a royall wall/greenblock style-house? Seems to be a common problem in the area, some have shifted so much that the wall structure was compromised, too many homes going up even with a quality builder they still have subs that are sometimes un-informed of the proper procedures.

This could be a HUGE problem.

The main thing is even with the slightest problem of settling on these homes, there is so much weigh due to he poured concrete and yours is two stories so there is extra weigh and danger if things aren't done properly.

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 01:07 PM

I just got off the telephone with two different contractors and one that is very recommended is going to come out and do an inspection.

They both mentioned the same issues that were raised above.

Now I just wish I could get them out here TODAY.

Not that it's that dire, but I'm worried now.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 23, 2006, 01:11 PM

weekends suck when this kind of stuff happens doesnt it? sucky sucky sucky

zerostar · Sep 23, 2006, 01:11 PM

Dang, good luck and I would keep an eye [rather ear] out for any other noises, you may want to look around your property for any sinking holes or water coming up as it may signify major troubles.

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 02:46 PM

I have an inspector coming out at 5:00 PM. I told him I'd pay him an extra $100 to come immediately and he said sure.

I'll let y'all know what he says afterwards.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 23, 2006, 02:52 PM

i'd do it for $50, but hey, if you wanna give away money

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 03:01 PM

Are you in Florida?

Where?

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 03:03 PM

Your profile says you're in MA.

Sorry, won't work.

Mastrap · Sep 23, 2006, 03:16 PM

Best of luck with it. It might just be that the house is settling, but the proximity to water and the lack of drainage would worry me. If the ground is clay then you shouldn't have to worry too much about erosion, but still....

Getting an inspector out is a good idea.

Eriamjh · Sep 23, 2006, 03:53 PM

Maybe you should have bought an older house with lots of other problems...

Just keep an eye on it and make sure you save some money on the side.

zerostar · Sep 23, 2006, 04:35 PM

Let us know what he finds.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 23, 2006, 04:37 PM

yeah cody, good luck with everything. hope everything turns out swell and you wont have to move again

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 05:19 PM

You guys are all so sweet.

(Bats eyelashes)

He just left and said the home is extremely well made and the crack is nothing to worry about. He said to have the builder put down some kind of paper over the crack and have it retiled.

So that's what I'm going to do. He didn't even want money (I slipped him some cash anyway) and was just a class act guy.

I love our house...never bought a new house before and trust me, if the house wasn't a great deal (it was returned to the builder due to lack of financing) we'd have bought a good used older home.

Anyway, thanks for the great vibes!

brassplayersrock² · Sep 23, 2006, 05:23 PM

be sure to put lucky bamboo in your house and have the head boards of your beds against a wall but so the your feet are not pointing towards a door as well. good vibes will be had of this.

in my dorm room i was sleeping with my feet towards the door and I had a hell of a time falling asleep. I read on a feng sui website that that is bad mojo and so i started sleeping with my head against the wall and my feet away from the door, and now i sleep really well.

good job with the contractor

ps
i am not an inspector

KeriVit · Sep 23, 2006, 05:29 PM

Cody, I understand your concern and it never hurts to have it checked. Our house up North actually settled 4" over the 12 years we were there. 2 cracks in the foundation made it a bitch to sell, but in the end, and after countless tests. It was assumed it would be ok. If it's not, I did my best to find out for the next owners and they seemed satisfied. Now, looking here, I will make sure I have every inspection I can to assure good construction.

Chester'sCopperpot · Sep 23, 2006, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock

be sure to put lucky bamboo in your house and have the head boards of your beds against a wall but so the your feet are not pointing towards a door as well. good vibes will be had of this.

in my dorm room i was sleeping with my feet towards the door and I had a hell of a time falling asleep. I read on a feng sui website that that is bad mojo and so i started sleeping with my head against the wall and my feet away from the door, and now i sleep really well.

good job with the contractor

ps
i am not an inspector

Screw that. Sleep with your head away fromt he door so you can see if anybody is sneaking in.... also, when going tot he bathroom, choose the urinal that allows you the best vantage point of who is entering the bathroom, and always try to think of how you could defend yourself. I dunno. I just always have survival stuff in the back of my head.

ghporter · Sep 23, 2006, 06:26 PM

A slab foundation will settle-no doubt about it. In some kinds of soil the settling is so tiny you'll never notice it, while in others you'll get stress-relieving cracks here and there. If the inspector says you shouldn't worry, then don't worry, even though you HEARD the crack happen.

The term "slab" foundation makes you think that they just poured a flat, rectangular chunk of concrete, but this is not the case. The foundation is made in a kind of waffle pattern, with LOTS of concrete in the webs between the spaces (which are UNDER the slab) in a crossways pattern; it's incredibly strong. Better poured foundations feature not only reinforcing steel but tensioned cables that make the foundation more solid and let it resist more stresses.

Trust the inspector; it's what he does, and why he is both bonded and trusted by others.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 23, 2006, 06:52 PM

Cody Dawg, you mentioned that your home is built on clay soil. I'm guessing that's the real culprit. Concrete slabs poured on expansive clay soils are prone to 'displacement' and 'heaving'. While you believe that the 're-grading' of the topology was beneficial, I'd bet that was the root cause of the cracked slab.

"Expansive clay" means pretty much what it says. It expands and contracts in all directions - depending on its moisture content. In expansive clay areas some building codes actually require that a soil moistening system be installed beneath the slab in order to keep the clay from dehydrating and shrinking. Basically it's a series of parallel pipes under the slab that are punched with holes and laid on a gravel bed. Weekly, or so, the homeowner is supposed to irrigate the pipes in order to maintain the moisture content in the soil.

You can send a soil sample for analysis - to determine its characteristics. Also, in my experience, expansive clay is pretty easy to identify. Look at the mud puddles around your house. Do they exhibit signs of deep cracking when they start drying - but while they're still moist? Most soils will crack when completely dry, but expansive clay will crack long before it's completely dry.

Structural damage will eventually occur if the soil is allowed to cycle between wet and dry.

Cracks are nothing to worry about....but if the slab is heaving (moving higher or lower than the opposite side of the crack) or the gap changes with the season - then everything else is moving with it. And that's a bad thing.

If it were my house, I'd wait before repairing the tile. I'd want to know if the crack was stable - or was moving.

Cody Dawg · Sep 23, 2006, 07:42 PM

Wow.

Spliffdaddy, you are RIGHT ON.

He mentioned the same thing. We're going to have to keep an eye on everything and see what happens. The clay had been saturated for so long and now that they are eliminating the water/saturation problem and the clay is drying out, the earth is contracting and the foundation being affected. He said he's not worried about it, but we have to keep an eye on other areas.

Anyway, what great information from all, including you ghporter.

rozwado1 · Sep 23, 2006, 07:54 PM

Tile guys are supposed to lay down a rubbery substance over the expansion joints to allow the tile to remain level while the slab expands/contracts. Your tile was laid directly over the concrete with a hard mortar, which bonded it too tightly to the slab and forced the tile to flex, ie crack.

The contractor needs to come back out and rip up/relay the tile on the expansion joints as they crack throughout the years. Make sure this will be covered under warranty and get a signature in writing. The new tile guys should lay the tile over a black rubbery substance (many different kinds - call you local tile supplier) or at the very least, roofing felt paper.

Spliffdaddy · Sep 23, 2006, 08:00 PM

Don't worry so much, Cody Dawg, you live in one of the few states where building codes are unreasonably rigid. That's a good thing for home buyers, and a bad thing for builders on a schedule. There's a lot to be said for stucco over steel-reinforced concrete block or monolithic poured concrete walls.

I've seen bomb shelters that are less substantial than most modern Florida homes.

Cody Dawg · Sep 24, 2006, 05:21 AM

Spliffdaddy:

You sure are smart!

How long do I wait before I have them repair it?

I'm worried about the tile lot/style being gone also if I wait too long.

Thank you VERY much for your information.

Railroader · Sep 24, 2006, 01:30 PM

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg

Spliffdaddy:

You sure are smart!

How long do I wait before I have them repair it?

I'm worried about the tile lot/style being gone also if I wait too long.

Thank you VERY much for your information.

simply buy the tile and store it.

Any tile job i do I usually buy 20-25% extra and put it in storage.

Cody Dawg · Sep 24, 2006, 03:20 PM

Yeah, that's what we'll have to do.

And I'm going to see what they have to say about the fact that they laid tile on bare concrete.

olePigeon · Sep 26, 2006, 11:50 AM

California used to be that way. In the San Jose area near the foothills you couldn't build housed up along the mountain range. Every year someone paid a geologist enough money to OK it. So every year houses creep further and furhter up the hill.

Now whenever it rains a lot or whenever there's a small earthquake, 10 houses fall down the hill. Then the taxpayers have to pay for the god damn morons building up there to have the hills refortified, graded, etc.

I hope your house wasn't built in an area where someone just payed off some guy with a degree and zoning credentials.

Cody Dawg · Sep 26, 2006, 01:13 PM

No. In fact, our home is in a county where the complaint is that the county is too tough on developers. In the paper just about every day are complaints about how the county is too strict about zoning and building and "slow growth."

Anyway, the engineers were out on Monday morning and they're coming back out tomorrow. They're checking the soil and the lot tomorrow.

We'll see what they say, though they sound a lot like Spliffdaddy when they talk about things like the clay and the soil. We're not on a hill but are instead on flat ground. Granted, it may be ground with clay in it, but it's flat at least.

brassplayersrock² · Sep 26, 2006, 03:14 PM

clay, like anything else can expand and form ruptures. just becauses it is clay does not make it unmovable.