[Naplander]

Greenpeace takes a strike at Apple's environmental policies and raises some valid points.

http://www.greenpeace.org/apple/

Let the games begin..

[mac128k-1984]

What games, they're just a bunch of tree huggers who complain about everything modern.

[Eriamjh]

I'm sure Dell creates more waste.

[Naplander]

Greenpeace can be a bit over the top, but if they didn't make a fuss - then who would?

CSR is going to become more and more of an issue, and I for one would be happy to see Apple leading the field.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I'm sure Dell creates more waste.

More computers and products sold = more waste?

hmmm
hmmmmmm

Yeah that sounds right.

-Owl

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I'm sure Dell creates more waste.

A Dell box is 100% recycled and recyclable.

[osiris]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

A Dell box is 100% recycled and recyclable.

It's a Dell, so it's still a waste.

[Naplander]

erm, don't you think we are missing the point here

[Judge_Fire]

Critique is good, I'm sure Apple can handle it.

[Railroader]

The only thing I have to add to this "argument" is that my Apple computers have been more environmental simply for the fact that their life span is nearly twice of a comparable PC. I used to buy a new PC every year or so. Now I buy a new Mac every few years.

Switching to Macs in this regard has been financially beneficial as well. The Apple computer costs more in the initial outlay, but as I buy less computers I end up spending less.

Am I making sense? I am a little overwhelmed this week with classes.

[OwlBoy]

Originally Posted by Railroader

The only thing I have to add to this "argument" is that my Apple computers have been more environmental simply for the fact that their life span is nearly twice of a comparable PC. I used to buy a new PC every year or so. Now I buy a new Mac every few years.

Switching to Macs in this regard has been financially beneficial as well. The Apple computer costs more in the initial outlay, but as I buy less computers I end up spending less.

Am I making sense? I am a little overwhelmed this week with classes.

Yup, your not the first to notice too.

Macs are generally in service longer than their PC friends.

-Owl

[itai195]

I recycle my computer waste on eBay

[RAILhead]

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Eriamjh

I'm sure Dell creates more waste.

Why? Note that Dell's guts (particularly their non-standard desktop motherboards) are largely Foxconn components, just like iPods and (I think) Apple laptops.

EVERY computer maker should be working toward less waste in manufacture, less (or NO) use of toxics in their products, and less energy use in all their processes. But Greenpeace is taking Apple's "awareness" and using it to spear them. Bad move.

Trouble is, Greenpeace stopped being terribly relevant when they stopped protesting and started being violent. Ramming a ship at sea is DUMB, (particularly in a Zodiac, but that's a different issue). Surrounding a ship that's doing something you're opposed to, so that the ship can't move without endangering your Zodiacs, is protest; ramming is assault.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

Rapidly approaching "played out."

[mac128k-1984]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Rapidly approaching "played out."

Rapidly????

[SirCastor]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Rapidly approaching "played out."

Nah, It's a classic.

[Jawbone54]

Originally Posted by SirCastor

Nah, It's a classic.

To each his own.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by Jawbone54

Rapidly approaching "played out."

One shouldn't talk about one's Mother like that.

[ambush]

Originally Posted by RAILhead

But you're a conservative 'merkin, we don't expect you to care about issues like this

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by ambush

'merkin,

Must be a French thing.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ambush

But you're a conservative 'merkin, we don't expect you to care about issues like this

Hehehe, 'merkin'.

[Kevin]

Lets call Canadians Canucks, and Mexican wetbacks.

Cause that is fun as well.

[RAILhead]

Originally Posted by ambush

But you're a conservative 'merkin, we don't expect you to care about issues like this

No, I'm just a realist, Red.

[Mastrap]

Is that right? Well, it' reality that computers, both in production and disposal, cause pollution and that we need to deal with it. If you don't see that, you're not a realist, you're putting your head in the sand.

RR is absolutely right, Macs tend to live far longer than PCs and that is a good thing. However, Dell's environmental policies are superior to Apple's and that's an embarrassment.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Mastrap

However, Dell's environmental policies are superior to Apple's and that's an embarrassment.

Do you have a source for the two policies? I'd really like to be able to compare the two.

Considering how "green" Austin is (or at least used to be), I'm not surprised ol' Mike pays attention to such things. What surprises me is that his policies could be greener than a California company's.

[Agasthya]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Do you have a source for the two policies? I'd really like to be able to compare the two.

Considering how "green" Austin is (or at least used to be), I'm not surprised ol' Mike pays attention to such things. What surprises me is that his policies could be greener than a California company's.

I don't think it comes down to Austin vs California... I think it comes more down to the fact that Apple just doesn't give a **** until someone calls them out on it.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Lets call Canadians Canucks, and Mexican wetbacks.

Cause that is fun as well.

But Canuck and wetback lack the double entendre of 'merkin'.

[Miniryu]

Originally Posted by Railroader

The only thing I have to add to this "argument" is that my Apple computers have been more environmental simply for the fact that their life span is nearly twice of a comparable PC. I used to buy a new PC every year or so. Now I buy a new Mac every few years.

Combine this with the fact that many of the older Macs such as the iMac DV (I'm not sure about the new ones) use far less power than a PC evevalent. Remember that they didn't used to have fans?

[pyrite]

didnt anybody watch the 'its showtime' event? reducing packaging size is something jobs seems to take quite seriously from an environmental point of view.. i could fit a new iPod nano - IN ITS BOX - in my pocket.
greenpeace's only strategy for getting people's attention is to exaggerate and sensationalize, and for good reason, it works.. it's a necessary evil to get people's attention. apple are no worse than anybody else

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

But Canuck and wetback lack the double entendre of 'merkin'.

The reason people use those words are still the same. I realize Ambush is still a little young bopper. But really grow up.

[The Godfather]

Originally Posted by Railroader

The only thing I have to add to this "argument" is that my Apple computers have been more environmental simply for the fact that their life span is nearly twice of a comparable PC. I used to buy a new PC every year or so. Now I buy a new Mac every few years.

Switching to Macs in this regard has been financially beneficial as well. The Apple computer costs more in the initial outlay, but as I buy less computers I end up spending less.

Am I making sense? I am a little overwhelmed this week with classes.

I hope this remains true for Intel Macs. There will be too much pressure to upgrade every year.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

But Canuck and wetback lack the double entendre of 'merkin'.

I was introduced to the mispronounced "American" as "merkin" from the real source-Lyndon B. Johnson. "My fellow 'merkins," was his normal opening for a TV address. Then I found out what a merkin was and Mr. Johnson's addresses became hysterical...

But once the joke is told, it needs to go offstage and rest. For a long, long time. Besides, the fashion trend is so far away from the merkin that they are only relevant in a historical way.

And when did "Canuk" become as perjoritive as "wetback?" The latter has so much implied baggage...

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I was introduced to the mispronounced "American" as "merkin" from the real source-Lyndon B. Johnson. "My fellow 'merkins," was his normal opening for a TV address. Then I found out what a merkin was and Mr. Johnson's addresses became hysterical...

But once the joke is told, it needs to go offstage and rest. For a long, long time. Besides, the fashion trend is so far away from the merkin that they are only relevant in a historical way.

And when did "Canuk" become as perjoritive as "wetback?" The latter has so much implied baggage...

To be honest, I'd never actually seen 'merkin' used as a mispronunciation of 'American' before. You're probably right that the amusement factor wouldn't last.

And I don't think Canuk is actually a pejorative. I think it's just that people are used to there being the 'official' word for a nationality, and the pejorative word, so clearly Canuk must be a pejorative.

[hayesk]

Originally Posted by The Godfather

A Dell box is 100% recycled and recyclable.

People keep their Apple boxes.

Not only that, Dell publishes millions of glossy and non-glossy brochures every week to stuff in papers, magazines, etc. Personally I've received enough brochures from Dell that in paper content, would more than make up for Apple boxes that I've owned; and I've owned about eight Macs in my life.

People rag on Apple's fancy boxes, but they add to the user experience, and those users gush about it to their friends. In effect, the box is marketing. One box that most people keep anyway compared to the millions and millions of wasted brochures from Dell - tell me which is more environmentally friendly?

Of course, Greenpeace didn't note that in their report.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I was introduced to the mispronounced "American" as "merkin" from the real source-Lyndon B. Johnson. "My fellow 'merkins," was his normal opening for a TV address. Then I found out what a merkin was and Mr. Johnson's addresses became hysterical...

But once the joke is told, it needs to go offstage and rest. For a long, long time. Besides, the fashion trend is so far away from the merkin that they are only relevant in a historical way.

And when did "Canuk" become as perjoritive as "wetback?" The latter has so much implied baggage...

Do you think ambush's intent was to harken back to the days of LBJ? Do you think he could have meant it is an insult? Do you think his use of the term was benign?

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by Railroader

Do you think ambush's intent was to harken back to the days of LBJ? Do you think he could have meant it is an insult? Do you think his use of the term was benign?

I do think his use was benign. The context was as if he were making a statement with an exagerated accent (one that I'm surrounded by a lot of the time, being a Texan). While he could have meant it insultingly, I don't see a reason to decide that's the only way he could have meant it.

...I'd still like to know when a term that's based on a mispronunciation of a word ("Canuk") became a perjoritive.

[Railroader]

Kinda like how African-Americans call each other n*, but it is insulting if a non-AA does it.

Canuck - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The use of "Canuck" parallels that of some other potentially offensive nicknames, that is, when used by the people it names — Canadians in this case — it is usually acceptable. But when used by an outsider — in this case particularly American strangers — it can be easily misinterpreted and deemed as insulting one's heritage. Although it is not as severe as most ethnic slurs, some consider it one.

[ghporter]

Interesting. None of the Canadians I knew growing up seemed to think it was bad at all. I mean Vancouver's hockey team is called the Canucks, so I never thought of it as an insult... And of course I know about Vancouver's team-I grew up near Detroit, where THE hockey team calls home!

On the other hand, I've always felt that "wetback" was insulting, because it refers both to a group (typically Mexicans, though not always) AND a behavior that is deemed inappropriate (illegally entering the U.S.). And EVERY Mexican American I have ever talked to about this issue has said it was extremely insulting. I learned some really choice cussing from some of these guys; they know insults. So I was always under the impression that this was about the worst you could do in terms of English slurs aimed at Mexican Americans.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

Interesting. None of the Canadians I knew growing up seemed to think it was bad at all. I mean Vancouver's hockey team is called the Canucks, so I never thought of it as an insult... And of course I know about Vancouver's team-I grew up near Detroit, where THE hockey team calls home!

On the other hand, I've always felt that "wetback" was insulting, because it refers both to a group (typically Mexicans, though not always) AND a behavior that is deemed inappropriate (illegally entering the U.S.). And EVERY Mexican American I have ever talked to about this issue has said it was extremely insulting. I learned some really choice cussing from some of these guys; they know insults. So I was always under the impression that this was about the worst you could do in terms of English slurs aimed at Mexican Americans.

You're certainly right about the term "wetback". It is HIGHLY insulting.

But I don't think ambush was being completely benign or else he wouldn't have used it.

[ghporter]

I wind up not getting upset about what I percieve about other people's motives online anymore because there are better things to do, and more important things to be concerned about. Like my homework, when I'm going to receive the MacBook Pro the agency taking care of my grad school funding said they were getting for me, and what I'm going to have for dinner tonight. You can expect ambush to be rude, or you can let it roll off and not give him that much power over you...

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

I wind up not getting upset about what I percieve about other people's motives online anymore because there are better things to do, and more important things to be concerned about. Like my homework, when I'm going to receive the MacBook Pro the agency taking care of my grad school funding said they were getting for me, and what I'm going to have for dinner tonight.

Cool.

Originally Posted by ghporter

You can expect ambush to be rude, or you can let it roll off and not give him that much power over you...

I completely understood, I am just explaining how Kevin's comments were justified and how ambush (and others) seems to get by with a lot of anti-American semi-racist comments. Other's have been banned for making racist statements in the past.

[ghporter]

It all depends on a lot of factors, including how others reacted or did not react to the post. It looked to me like most people just ignored any potential slur, so I didn't look any deeper. There's a big-time sociological principle involved here (looking at how others react when in an unconventional situation is pretty common), but since there was no hue and cry about it I let it go.

I do appreciate having stuff I missed pointed out to me, though. Thanks for your insight.

[Railroader]

Originally Posted by ghporter

It all depends on a lot of factors, including how others reacted or did not react to the post. It looked to me like most people just ignored any potential slur, so I didn't look any deeper. There's a big-time sociological principle involved here (looking at how others react when in an unconventional situation is pretty common), but since there was no hue and cry about it I let it go.

I do appreciate having stuff I missed pointed out to me, though. Thanks for your insight.

Anytime.

Back to the Greenpeace-hates-everything-but-trees discussion people!

[ghporter]

I don't think Greenpeace even likes most trees.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

And I don't think Canuk is actually a pejorative. I think it's just that people are used to there being the 'official' word for a nationality, and the pejorative word, so clearly Canuk must be a pejorative.

Point is, all the words mentioned are usually used to belittle someone.

Originally Posted by ghporter

I do think his use was benign. The context was as if he were making a statement with an exagerated accent (one that I'm surrounded by a lot of the time, being a Texan). While he could have meant it insultingly, I don't see a reason to decide that's the only way he could have meant it.

Considering ambush has a history of insulting anything American, and makes no beef about it.I think it's safe to assume that was his propagative.

And as far as "Canuck" being a perjoritive, when people other than Canadians call Canadians Canucks, they are usually doing so to belittle.

[Miniryu]

I always liked the term "Canucks". Wolverine was always called a Canuck (or a Canuckle head), and it made being Canadian a cool thing (seeing as how Wolverine is the most popular modern hero).

[ambush]

There was a Canuck hockey team once.

[nonhuman]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Point is, all the words mentioned are usually used to belittle someone.

That's just not the case in my experience.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by nonhuman

That's just not the case in my experience.

Well in this particular instance it was.