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TETENAL · Oct 18, 2006, 05:40 AM

Apple delivered some iPod-videos with a Windows-virus preinstalled.

http://www.apple.com/support/windowsvirus/

Dakar² · Oct 18, 2006, 07:16 AM

That's, uh, disturbing.

turtle777 · Oct 18, 2006, 09:12 AM

IBR.

-t

residentEvil · Oct 18, 2006, 09:22 AM

i think it is pretty funny.

PurpleGiant · Oct 18, 2006, 09:24 AM

Free dig at Windows in there too. That's some good PR right there - turn a virus release into a subtle 'why you should buy a Mac' line:

"As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it."

TETENAL · Oct 18, 2006, 10:10 AM

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

That's some good PR right there.

It's arrogant to blame Windows.

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Ou/?p=346

torsoboy · Oct 18, 2006, 10:20 AM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

It's arrogant to blame Windows.

� Apple gives you a virus on iPod, blames Microsoft | George Ou | ZDNet.com

I agree. Very non-professional of them to say, "But it's not our fault!!", when it is 100% their fault. If they couldn't handle running virus protection software on their PCs (why are they installing the software on iPods using Windows in the first place?), they shouldn't be blaming anyone other than theirselves. And it isn't like the Mac has zero viruses.

rickey939 · Oct 18, 2006, 10:21 AM

FireWire · Oct 18, 2006, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I agree. Very non-professional of them to say, "But it's not our fault!!", when it is 100% their fault. If they couldn't handle running virus protection software on their PCs (why are they installing the software on iPods using Windows in the first place?), they shouldn't be blaming anyone other than theirselves. And it isn't like the Mac has zero viruses.

Well, let's not forget that Apple doesn't build their iPod themselves, but rather employ subcontractors. Of course they could choose better contractors, but we cannot blame them for the contractor's error...

::maroma:: · Oct 18, 2006, 11:06 AM

In the end, the blame ultimately lies with Apple. Even if a contractor they use was the one who let it slip by. The blame (as well as the glory) always goes to who's in charge. But with the number of viruses out there for Windows, its amazing more haven't slipped by.

Apple chose to play in the Windows world, now they gotta deal with all the bullcrap.

Rumor · Oct 18, 2006, 12:24 PM

It's a secret ploy by Steve to get more users to switch.

TheoCryst · Oct 18, 2006, 12:27 PM

I'm definitely at least mildly amused... though it really sucks for the poor saps who ended up getting a worm (NOT a virus) on their computer thanks to their brand-new iPod.

EDIT: And shame on Apple for being so brazen about it. We all know that Windows is succeptible to virus, but that page is very unprofessional.

Chuckit · 12:55 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

I agree. Very non-professional of them to say, "But it's not our fault!!", when it is 100% their fault. If they couldn't handle running virus protection software on their PCs (why are they installing the software on iPods using Windows in the first place?), they shouldn't be blaming anyone other than theirselves.

It is actually more Microsoft's fault that Windows is so virus-prone (since they do that themselves) than it is Apple's that this virus snuck onto a couple of iPods (apparently from a small subcontractor). How do you think the virus got on there in the first place? Because the subcontractor was using that POS of a PC OS. Microsoft deserves every bit of criticism its sieveware gets.

Originally Posted by torsoboy

And it isn't like the Mac has zero viruses.

It's a lot like that, actually. If you want to claim otherwise, habeas corpus.

FireWire · Oct 18, 2006, 01:24 PM

Originally Posted by TheoCryst

EDIT: And shame on Apple for being so brazen about it. We all know that Windows is succeptible to virus, but that page is very unprofessional.

I don't see how that page is unappropriate, they clearly say:

As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it.

So it seems they are blaming themselves more than they are blaming Microsoft...

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It is actually more Microsoft's fault that Windows is so virus-prone (since they do that themselves) than it is Apple's that this virus snuck onto a couple of iPods (apparently from a small subcontractor). How do you think the virus got on there in the first place? Because the subcontractor was using that POS of a PC OS. Microsoft deserves every bit of criticism its sieveware gets..

Exactly. I will even go further and say it's actually the users' fault if they caught this virus. As far as I know, this virus was not "invented" in the last hours, so that anti-virus publishers didn't have the time to add protection against it. Incidentally, from the same Apple page:

RavMonE.exe is a known Windows virus and up to date anti-virus software using the default settings should detect and remove it.

It's the user's responsibility to keep their virus definitions up to date.

itai195 · Oct 18, 2006, 01:26 PM

I do think it's a little funny and I'm surprised this sort or thing doesn't happen more often, or maybe we just don't hear about it. Not sure how I feel about the swipe at Windows, Apple does that all the time so it's not really anything new.

Eug Wanker · Oct 18, 2006, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by PurpleGiant

Free dig at Windows in there too. That's some good PR right there - turn a virus release into a subtle 'why you should buy a Mac' line:

"As you might imagine, we are upset at Windows for not being more hardy against such viruses, and even more upset with ourselves for not catching it."

Personally, I think that statement seems rather lame on Apple's part, but they're sure to get some press over it.

Viral marketing!

P.S. I wonder if it could be on the drives themselves. There were non-iPod MP3 players that had a virus too. There was some internet press on it very recently.

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 03:12 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

Viral marketing!

*rimshot*

Lava Lamp Freak · Oct 18, 2006, 04:28 PM

Hmm. I wonder if this is just a script for the next "I'm a Mac" commercial?

osiris · Oct 18, 2006, 04:35 PM

My first reaction was "This is funny as hell"

but actually, this is not good - regardless of how arrogantly spun the tale has become - this indicates a major slip-up.

Alright, it's still funny as hell, but just not a really good thing.

torsoboy · Oct 18, 2006, 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It is actually more Microsoft's fault that Windows is so virus-prone (since they do that themselves) than it is Apple's that this virus snuck onto a couple of iPods (apparently from a small subcontractor). How do you think the virus got on there in the first place? Because the subcontractor was using that POS of a PC OS. Microsoft deserves every bit of criticism its sieveware gets.

It's a lot like that, actually. If you want to claim otherwise, habeas corpus.

That makes no sense at all. So there was a virus that got written and was on one of the subcontractor's computers when he installed the software onto the iPod (yep, you heard that right... using Windows to build and deploy the iPod internal software), and that somehow makes it Microsoft's fault? Combined with the fact that it was a know virus that "any up to date" virus protection software could get rid of, it lays it even mroe at Apple's feet because they weren't handling any quality control on their product. Steve was just being a bit rash (as normal) and decided to blame someone else for the error that his company made. Microsoft is always his first on his list, so it probably just came naturaly.

Sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but there are viruses that exist on Macintosh computers. It doesn't make it a crappy OS, it just means someone figured out a way to exploit a weakness.

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

Sorry to have to be the one to tell you this, but there are viruses that exist on Macintosh computers.

As I said, I've heard this claim many a time, but nobody has ever actually shown these viruses to exist in the wild.

Wiskedjak · Oct 18, 2006, 05:43 PM

Given how the iPod speaks with MacOS, I'd be concerned that this could be a back-door to getting malicious code onto a Mac.

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 05:49 PM

How so?

Wiskedjak · Oct 18, 2006, 06:12 PM

No idea ... hence my concern

itai195 · Oct 18, 2006, 06:20 PM

It's a feature. An anti-virus software test, included free with every iPod.

TheoCryst · Oct 18, 2006, 06:23 PM

Originally Posted by itai195

It's a feature. An anti-virus software test, included free with every iPod.

TETENAL · Oct 18, 2006, 07:13 PM

Originally Posted by Chuckit

It is actually more Microsoft's fault.

It's Apple's fault and nobody else's.

From http://news.com.com/http://news.com....?tag=cnetfd.mt

"It's more important to say we now have processes in place to make sure this won't happen again," [Apple Vice President Greg] Joswiak said.

See, there are procedures that can make sure this doesn't happen. Apple didn't implement them before and that's why they have to take full responsibility for the issue. Blaming Windows – even if in part – is kind of lame.

brassplayersrock² · Oct 18, 2006, 07:17 PM

uhh, tetenal. i think this is one of those times that Apple said "oh, we didnt think of that in our "what if this happens" list" Apple is doing a good job handling this.

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 07:33 PM

Originally Posted by TETENAL

It's Apple's fault and nobody else's.

Why is Apple responsible when another company screws up in manufacturing its products, but Microsoft isn't responsible when grievous errors in its products cause problems for people? How does that work?

I'm not saying Apple isn't to blame. I'm just saying that Microsoft deserves a good portion of the blame for every computer that's infected with a worm due to its negligence.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 18, 2006, 07:34 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

And it isn't like the Mac has zero viruses.

Yes it is.

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 07:39 PM

Originally Posted by Wiskedjak

No idea ... hence my concern

The iPod doesn't really inject code into the kernel or anything. The only difference between an iPod and any other disk, to my knowledge, is that there's a daemon that detects the iPod and talks to it for iTunes — I don't see why there's reason to fear a system could be compromised because a BSD daemon talked to an iPod that had a Windows virus on it.

turtle777 · Oct 18, 2006, 08:28 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

And it isn't like the Mac has zero viruses.

Zero viruses for Macs

Some claims about viruses for OS X. Links, please.

-t

torsoboy · Oct 18, 2006, 08:51 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Zero viruses for Macs

Some claims about viruses for OS X. Links, please.

-t

Try this one: Macintosh Security Site - Security for Mac Platform MacOS X Security Firewalls Desktop Network Security secure mac os x Virus Encrpytion PGP macosx

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 08:53 PM

Nope, no Macs infected with a virus there.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 18, 2006, 08:55 PM

Are you talking about this piss-weak trojan?

A virus that isn't self-propagating isn't a virus at all.

Chuckit · Oct 18, 2006, 08:58 PM

More importantly, a virus that does not infect anybody is nothing but an idea.

turtle777 · Oct 18, 2006, 09:42 PM

Originally Posted by torsoboy

Try this one: Macintosh Security Site - Security for Mac Platform MacOS X Security Firewalls Desktop Network Security secure mac os x Virus Encrpytion PGP macosx

Try again, no viruses there.

-t

ghporter · Oct 19, 2006, 06:51 AM

The fact that no Macs are currently infected, and that the track record for Mac-aimed viruses is poor does not make Macs immune. It just means that nobody's tried hard enough yet. They will eventually.

Does anyone else her think that Foxconn, the contractor that builds iPods for Apple, is suddenly being a lot of trouble for old Steve and company? First the "news sensational" about conditions at their factory (which was shown to be much overblown) and now this. They have some "'splainin' to do" from my point of view.

- - e r i k - - · Oct 19, 2006, 07:08 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

The fact that no Macs are currently infected, and that the track record for Mac-aimed viruses is poor does not make Macs immune. It just means that nobody's tried hard enough yet. They will eventually.

Nobody is saying Macs are immune. It's just that they have to try REAL hard before they'll succeed. The current track record of no infectious viruses in five years (more if you count NeXT) speaks volumes.

turtle777 · Oct 19, 2006, 09:09 AM

Originally Posted by ghporter

It just means that nobody's tried hard enough yet. They will eventually.

In order to effectively hijack OS X, you'd need to find a way to gain quasi-root access or circumvernting the user autorization.
While OS X is not immune from anything, that kind of hack / exploit will be extremely rare.

-t

drmcnutt · Oct 19, 2006, 11:12 AM

Gosh all those security updates software update wants me to update must be for nothing.

Nobody will ever hurt the solid OSX. Suurre.

It's common knowledge that virus makers can't be concerned with making a mac virus because of the relatively small impact the mac community has on the overall computer users. Of course using the very popular ipod to distribute viruses (regardless of the OS effected) can only make them happy and looks bad for Apple no matter how they spin it.

Eug Wanker · Oct 19, 2006, 11:31 AM

MS guy responds

Where's your class? Your integrity?

Heard about the portable video and music device that came preinstalled with a virus?

Instead of focusing on how and why it was even included in the first place, the company that published a series of video ads, including this one, actual try to divert the blame on the Windows platform!

It's not a matter of which platform that the virus originated. The fact that it's found on the portable player means that there's an issue with how the quality checks, specifically the content check was done. This also indicates that through the manufacturing cycle, the base device from which the image was duplicated to the other devices in the manufacturing run, was connected to a PC that most probably did not have , and i quote their press release, "up to date anti-virus software which is included with most Windows computers".

I agree with him. Apple's info blurb on this was simply stupid.

turtle777 · Oct 19, 2006, 01:20 PM

Originally Posted by drmcnutt

Gosh all those security updates software update wants me to update must be for nothing.

Nobody will ever hurt the solid OSX. Suurre.

Most of the fixed security holes in OS X DID NOT allow remote exploitation, unlike most of the XP holes.

In order for a virus to take advantage the user had to collaborate significantly.

-t

itai195 · Oct 19, 2006, 01:31 PM

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker

I agree with him. Apple's info blurb on this was simply stupid.

I agree it was stupid but lets not get carried away, it's not some coordinated attack on the part of the company. This blurb was probably written by one or two people who should've known better.

Gossamer · Oct 19, 2006, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by what_the_heck

Most of the fixed security holes in OS X DID NOT allow remote exploitation, unlike most of the XP holes.

In order for a virus to take advantage the user had to collaborate significantly.

-t

And even then these holes and bugs were taken care of before going public.

Chuckit · Oct 19, 2006, 01:49 PM

Originally Posted by drmcnutt

Gosh all those security updates software update wants me to update must be for nothing.

Nobody will ever hurt the solid OSX. Suurre.

It's common knowledge that virus makers can't be concerned with making a mac virus because of the relatively small impact the mac community has on the overall computer users.

Yes, your dismissive remarks and "common knowledge" are much more persuasive than the entire history of computing up to this point. Who needs facts when we have common knowledge?

- - e r i k - - · Oct 19, 2006, 07:22 PM

Originally Posted by drmcnutt

It's a common mythconception that virus makers can't be concerned with making a mac virus because of the relatively small impact the mac community has on the overall computer users.

It's the security. Why don't you do some original thinking instead of spreading these useless factoids.

Quick question: What do most virus writers want?
Answer: Recognition

Ponder this: How would you get the most recognition? By adding to the 300 000+ pool of Windows viruses? OR by creating a virus that infiltrates a platform that prides itself on security and shuts up "those smug mac users"?