[Zeeb]

I'm kinda stuck in my career at the moment and generally when this happens the standard advice is to go back to school and get trained to do something else. At least that's what my friends tell me.

Fine, makes sense. However, many of those friends with graduate degrees end up with a lot of debt and with jobs that have don't seem to compensate them enough to justify the cost--or jobs not even in their field.

What's also scary is I'm seeing a lot of job postings in my area requiring or preferring a Master's Degree for low level clerical jobs. What's up with that? How can a school justify charging a student up to $20,000 a year for that and why do you need a Master's to do filing?

I was wondering what people's experience is outside of my little circle of friends. Right now, it doesn't seem worth it to me -- but maybe someone reading this has a different opinion.

Were you able to break into a new field without a lot of additional schooling--maybe a continuing ed program? Or, were you able to break into a field without any schooling?

Feel free to leave snarky comments if you want.

[SpaceMonkey]

What sorts of "clerical" jobs are you seeing that require a masters degree? Just curious.

[climber]

I have spent the last couple of years working on a new degree. It is pretty hard when you are in your 40's and have family commitments. I was seeking a challenge in something I found fascinating and wanted to learn. It was not about money, but about passion.

I would say go for the education if and only if you want to learn. Not for a bigger paycheck.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by SpaceMonkey 

What sorts of "clerical" jobs are you seeing that require a masters degree? Just curious.

Well, I was looking the other day at some admin assistant jobs that required or requested a masters. The mother of all outlandish educational requirements was for a coordinator position that wanted people to have a PhD. Granted this position was at a University, but the job description didn't mention any duty different from a standard office coordinator at another employer. The pay grade indicated was at about $45,000.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by climber 

I have spent the last couple of years working on a new degree. It is pretty hard when you are in your 40's and have family commitments. I was seeking a challenge in something I found fascinating and wanted to learn. It was not about money, but about passion.

I would say go for the education if and only if you want to learn. Not for a bigger paycheck.

You make a very good point and ideally I would like to go down the same road. There is actually an ad campaign from the School of Visual Arts I believe that mentions the word "passion" several times. However, after you're done with school how do you pay off the loans, nyc rent etc? There's a reality that I don't hear addressed at all in University ad campaigns.

Maybe I'm focusing too much on cost. I'm just very worried about racking up debt.

[finboy]

Depends. If you're talking a Masters in Sociology or something like that, something touchy-feeley, then it's not going to do much for you unless your looking for a specific type of job. An MBA, however, with the right experience before and after, is a pretty good ticket.

The other thing to consider -- at some point, a masters degree is nearly required to advance in your field, regardless of the field. Certainly required if your advancement involves managing people.

Get some experience first, though.

[itai195]

I don't think I've gotten any return on my masters, but at least I didn't pay for it. Maybe it will pay off down the road though. I'd only do it if you can think of specific reasons it will help you, depending on requirements for the field you want to go into. I would not personally go into debt for one, unless I really needed it for my chosen field and there was no other way to finance it or a cheaper school I could go to. I know there are many clerical jobs one can get without a masters...

Also, job descriptions often make it sound like you have to be a god to get the job... don't get too discouraged by that. I just got a new job that required significantly more experience in a certain area than I have, so there are clearly other factors at play.

[Buckaroo]

I love working for Boeing. They pay 100% of tuition for all education. Well, most anyhow.

They will even pay for flight training.

[El Gato]

MBA's are a dime a dozen nowadays. If you're going to go back to school without a specific plan and just settle on getting a general MBA, it's not going to do you any good. Figure out what you want to do, and if it requires you getting more schooling, pick a program that will let you customize your education as much as possible to match your goals.

With regards to job ads with ridiculous qualifications: Human resource types are morons. In my experience, most have no idea about the position they are hiring for or what a person may realistically be doing on a day to day basis.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by El Gato 

With regards to job ads with ridiculous qualifications: Human resource types are morons. In my experience, most have no idea about the position they are hiring for or what a person may realistically be doing on a day to day basis.

Heh. That's certainly the experience I've had with my current job (job ad versus reality).

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Well, I was looking the other day at some admin assistant jobs that required or requested a masters. The mother of all outlandish educational requirements was for a coordinator position that wanted people to have a PhD. Granted this position was at a University, but the job description didn't mention any duty different from a standard office coordinator at another employer. The pay grade indicated was at about $45,000.

That's gotta be a joke.

A PhD for coordinator position ? 45k ?

BS.

-t

[Spliffdaddy]

Employers are looking for job experience. They hate to spend time training new employees because it costs them the use of a skilled employee in order to train an unskilled one. So, you're better off getting some hands-on experience rather than a university degree.

Also, do not be discouraged with job ads that want a master's degree for a position that shouldn't require one. Apply anyway. Those are the jobs that nobody bothers to apply for...so they end up taking whoever they can get. My sister is living proof. She made a habit of applying for jobs she wasn't qualified for - and always got the job.

Whan I hire construction laborers I ask for 5 years of experience. But I will settle for whatever level of experience the prospective employee has - if they're able to do the job I need done.

A girl I'm very fond of and plan to marry some day although she is not aware of it, earned her master's degree several months ago. She has had a miserable time finding suitable employment. She finally accepted a position as executive director of a ballet theater. Sounds impressive, but pays $20,000 a year. Well, it's part-time, but that sucks. I told her she could use it as proof that she can do that type of job - and it will pay off later. If I'm wrong she'll hate me. o well. Several of my friends also have master's degrees that never seemed to turn into money-making endeavours.

Experience is what usually gets you into high-paying jobs. If an advanced degree is what they really want from you - then do what everybody else does and promise you'll work toward that education while you're employed. Heck, plenty of employers are even willing to pay for your tuition.

edited: avoid any degrees in Psychology. Dude, I have never in my life seen that one pay off in any meaningful way.

[Peter]

I'm currently doing a degree (full time) in Computer Science and also working in a top tech firm, I'm making about $20k. Part time.
Degrees are important.

[itai195]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

edited: avoid any degrees in Psychology. Dude, I have never in my life seen that one pay off in any meaningful way.

My wife has a degree in psychology. She's now running her own business in a totally unrelated field and quite successful, not due in any way to the degree. Thank goodness she didn't bother with a masters.

As far as experience goes, it depends on the industry, the company, and the job itself. But if you're applying for a job that requires a certain degree that you don't have, generally you'd have to demonstrate that your experience makes up for it.

[Spliffdaddy]

Originally Posted by Peter 

I'm currently doing a degree (full time) in Computer Science and also working in a top tech firm, I'm making about $20k. Part time.
Degrees are important.

Does your employer help you with tuition costs? If not, ask them if they will. I'm sure they'd like to retain you as an employee, assuming you're a good one.

Degrees are important for most good paying jobs. If I were to market my home-building skills, I'm not sure how I would be accepted in the marketplace by employers. I don't have a master's degree. All I have is experience and proof that I can do the job of a general contractor. While I'm certain that I would choose somebody like myself - somebody with experience - I'm not sure I would be chosen over somebody with a master's degree and no experience. And I'm very certain I'd lose to anybody with a master's degree *and* experience.

So, yeah, a degree is important. Not necessarily essential, depending on what your plans are. If you intend to work for somebody you just might need a degree. If you intend to work for yourself, then a degree pales when compared to experience.

[SpaceMonkey]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Well, I was looking the other day at some admin assistant jobs that required or requested a masters. The mother of all outlandish educational requirements was for a coordinator position that wanted people to have a PhD. Granted this position was at a University, but the job description didn't mention any duty different from a standard office coordinator at another employer. The pay grade indicated was at about $45,000.

$45K is a not-unreasonable starting salary for someone with a Masters degree and general admin experience, at least in the academic/non-profit world.

I'm thinking of non-technical fields, though.

[marden]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

I'm kinda stuck in my career at the moment and generally when this happens the standard advice is to go back to school and get trained to do something else. At least that's what my friends tell me.

Fine, makes sense. However, many of those friends with graduate degrees end up with a lot of debt and with jobs that have don't seem to compensate them enough to justify the cost--or jobs not even in their field.

What's also scary is I'm seeing a lot of job postings in my area requiring or preferring a Master's Degree for low level clerical jobs. What's up with that? How can a school justify charging a student up to $20,000 a year for that and why do you need a Master's to do filing?

I was wondering what people's experience is outside of my little circle of friends. Right now, it doesn't seem worth it to me -- but maybe someone reading this has a different opinion.

Were you able to break into a new field without a lot of additional schooling--maybe a continuing ed program? Or, were you able to break into a field without any schooling?

Feel free to leave snarky comments if you want.

I thought advanced degrees came as a result of one's level of intellectual curiosity. When you were still dissatisfied with the answers you had and wanted to go farther, to learn more, you studied at a higher or deeper level.

If you get a doctorate just for the money doesn't that cheapen it? Is that why there are so many experts who are really just hacks?

(I'm not saying that you would be one of those.)

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by marden 

I thought advanced degrees came as a result of one's level of intellectual curiosity. When you were still dissatisfied with the answers you had and wanted to go farther, to learn more, you studied at a higher or deeper level.

If you get a doctorate just for the money doesn't that cheapen it? Is that why there are so many experts who are really just hacks?

(I'm not saying that you would be one of those.)

Personally, I don't think I would ever go as far as getting a doctorate. I don't have that many questions. I guess a Master's degree interests me because I'm interested in doing something else and it seems to be the conventional manner in which to pursue that.

My scheme thus far has been to try and land a job at a University. Those jobs generally provide free tuition as a benefit. I can live with free.

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

Also, do not be discouraged with job ads that want a master's degree for a position that shouldn't require one. Apply anyway. Those are the jobs that nobody bothers to apply for...so they end up taking whoever they can get. My sister is living proof. She made a habit of applying for jobs she wasn't qualified for - and always got the job.

Whan I hire construction laborers I ask for 5 years of experience. But I will settle for whatever level of experience the prospective employee has - if they're able to do the job I need done.

A girl I'm very fond of and plan to marry some day although she is not aware of it, earned her master's degree several months ago. She has had a miserable time finding suitable employment. She finally accepted a position as executive director of a ballet theater. Sounds impressive, but pays $20,000 a year. Well, it's part-time, but that sucks. I told her she could use it as proof that she can do that type of job - and it will pay off later. If I'm wrong she'll hate me. o well. Several of my friends also have master's degrees that never seemed to turn into money-making endeavours.

Experience is what usually gets you into high-paying jobs. If an advanced degree is what they really want from you - then do what everybody else does and promise you'll work toward that education while you're employed. Heck, plenty of employers are even willing to pay for your tuition.

edited: avoid any degrees in Psychology. Dude, I have never in my life seen that one pay off in any meaningful way.

No worries, I wasn't planning on a Psychology degree mostly because I'd be afraid of learning about all of the mental illnesses I probably have.

I agree with you that experience helps get you the good jobs-- but it seems sometimes people care more about credentials which is crazy to me in certain cases. At any rate, I don't want to be one of those people that continue with their education just because they don't know what else to do.

[TheMosco]

Originally Posted by Spliffdaddy 

Employers are looking for job experience. They hate to spend time training new employees because it costs them the use of a skilled employee in order to train an unskilled one. So, you're better off getting some hands-on experience rather than a university degree.

At the same time, it really depends on industry. I go to a tech school so all my friends major in some type of engineering. It seems like companies really like masters degrees especially when its not in your original major. For example, my friend is a civil engineer, but it getting a masters in fire protection engineering. I have other friends that got an electrical and computer engineering degree but mastered in biomedical engineering. Maybe a combo of mechanical and manufacturing engineering.

Yes, experience is important, but sometimes that masters degree can get you that specialized job that wouldn't be able to get otherwise.

I am interested in getting an MBA with my comp sci degree. We have a 5 year BS/MS program. I also have about 1 year experience working full time (may to august for 3 summers) at 2 software company and another 6 months working for part time for said companies. I am going through the same thing you are, trying to figure out whether it is worth it. I want to be a manager some day.

[bstone]

I am pursuing a Doctorate in Medicine (MD). Not quite to that program yet (finishing pre-reqs) but it seems that the MD is not quite a scam. While the earning potential isn't as much as it used to be, the education does give something a bit more than an undergraduate one.

Of course in Europe a medical college education is an undergraduate study- MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Science) which translates into MD in the US.

[Atheist]

I would say it certainly depends on the field of study. Obviously you can't be a doctor without your degree. I work in the IT field (software engineer) and have no formal training but have been doing it for 20 years now. I make more money than I could have ever dreamed of and my lack of education hasn't hindered me in the least. My experience is all that matters. That said, I am interested in teaching at the collegiate level... and without a degree it is almost impossible. Online study... here I come!!!

On a similar note... except for the big name Ivy League schools... I've always been of the belief that it doesn't really matter where you get your degree.. just that you have one.

[mitchell_pgh]

Master's Degree:
Scam? NO
For Everyone? NO

Some career require further education... some don't. It all depends.

[DeathToWindows]

Well, in my field (experimental psychology) a Masters isn't what you go for; I'll be going for a PhD after undergrad...

[Zeeb]

Originally Posted by Atheist 

I would say it certainly depends on the field of study. Obviously you can't be a doctor without your degree. I work in the IT field (software engineer) and have no formal training but have been doing it for 20 years now. I make more money than I could have ever dreamed of and my lack of education hasn't hindered me in the least. My experience is all that matters. That said, I am interested in teaching at the collegiate level... and without a degree it is almost impossible. Online study... here I come!!!

On a similar note... except for the big name Ivy League schools... I've always been of the belief that it doesn't really matter where you get your degree.. just that you have one.

Your experience is interesting because you have been successful in your field with no formal study. It seems that in the past employers were more willing to mentor and train their new recruits. My perception now is that employers want an expert "out of the box" and they believe a credential automatically provides that. I wonder if this is in response to marketing tactics by Universities? I also knew a guy that got started in technology with no degree at all and he was also successful. In recent years, I've noticed employers requiring computer science degrees now.

I can just imagine schools trying to convince employers that they should require a certain credential for a position where it was not required(or needed) previously. "What!? you have janitors working for you without our degree in sanitation engineering?" I'm sure the employer does benefit in some way from this, but it seems the school benefits the most--since they sell the necessary degree.

At any rate, of course people like doctor's and lawyers need to be fully educated. I guess I have to decide whether its in my best interest.

[driven]

You can never go wrong with higher education.

I teach at a college now (at least part time) so a graduate degree ($50k!) was a requirement and it has paid itself off for me. However it's not for everyone. You should have passion for what you want to do and be self-motivated. If you don't meet this criteria then save the money.

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

That's gotta be a joke.

A PhD for coordinator position ? 45k ?

BS.

-t

It depends on what kind of coordinator position. If it's a coordinator of an academic program—say, coordinator of Composition or something—then a PhD is to be expected.

[itai195]

I think a good summary of the advice in this thread would be: figure out what you'd like to do, then figure out if an advanced degree is worthwhile, then do what you gotta do

If you want a low level clerical job (from OP) I'm fairly sure you can get a job like that without a masters. Also keep in mind that a masters may not pay off immediately, but it may down the road.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by midwinter 

It depends on what kind of coordinator position. If it's a coordinator of an academic program—say, coordinator of Composition or something—then a PhD is to be expected.

I don't think this position would just be called "coordinator".

And again, if it's such a responsible position, 45k ?

-t

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

I don't think this position would just be called "coordinator".

And again, if it's such a responsible position, 45k ?

-t

Such positions are commonly called "coordinator" since they're usually programs housed within departments and so there are issues with titling—you don't want to step on the toes of other titles, which have specific meanings in colleges and there are often meetings of "program directors" which would not include some of these people.

Wow. That was tortured. For instance. My job title is "director" and I oversee a program with 2500 students and about 80 instructors, about 60 of which I have hire/fire powers over, but I am not a director in the same way that a dept chair is or the "director of honors" is. I am, in other words, more properly a "coordinator," but we tend to reserve that title for staff positions, and I'm not staff.

Edit: To which I should add...pay in academia contains a number of variables, the most important of which is benefits. Some places offer relatively low pay but amazing benefits, so your salary may be $45K, but with benes factored in, you actually make $60K.

[turtle777]

I can understand a PhD requirement for a program director.

For a coordinator, hmm, I'd say to the university "change the freaking title".

-t

[midwinter]

Originally Posted by what_the_heck 

I can understand a PhD requirement for a program director.

For a coordinator, hmm, I'd say to the university "change the freaking title".

-t

Universities move at a glacial pace, and so making a change to a title might require (in the worst case) department meetings, votes, motions at faculty senate, votes, approval from college Dean, approval from dean's council, and provost approval. That could easily take a year.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by midwinter 

Universities move at a glacial pace, and so making a change to a title might require (in the worst case) department meetings, votes, motions at faculty senate, votes, approval from college Dean, approval from dean's council, and provost approval. That could easily take a year.

Uhm, yeah, you are probably right.

I guess that's the ifference between corporate America and the educational institutions.
In a private company, you'd give out hyped titles that mean nothing. In universities, it seems like the titles are sometimes understatements.

-t

[Eug Wanker]

Don't do a Master's just for the sake of doing a Master's. That's the way to guarantee you'll hate it. Also, really analyze your job prospects after getting that Master's. Some Master's degrees are more useful than others, but even if you did get a Master's in biochemistry for example, that doesn't help you much if you don't want to work in the field.

P.S. You can't judge a job solely by its title. In some companies, everyone and their dog is an "analyst". At other places, a "coordinator" can be quite a huge responsibility. I know one person who went from being a "research coordinator" in a university dept to a VP of a health sciences company.

Originally Posted by bstone 

I am pursuing a Doctorate in Medicine (MD). Not quite to that program yet (finishing pre-reqs) but it seems that the MD is not quite a scam. While the earning potential isn't as much as it used to be, the education does give something a bit more than an undergraduate one.

Of course in Europe a medical college education is an undergraduate study- MBBS (Bachelor of Medicine, Bachelor of Science) which translates into MD in the US.

Heh. Well, even in North America, med school is often considered sort of an undergraduate degree by some universities, even though it is called an MD.

It's sort of its own separate category anyway - you can't really compare it to a traditional undergraduate degree or a graduate degree. It's a professional degree, tailored to a specific group of career paths.

[BRussell]

Here are two good reasons to get a graduate degree:

1. Some jobs require a certain degree, like a Master's or JD or MD, to obtain certification or licensure, or as a requirement to get a particular job.

2. If you want to re-specialize in something, it usually doesn't make sense to get a second Bachelor's degree - just get a Master's.

But here's something I don't think most people understand: The vast majority of Bachelor's degrees that people obtain are not vocational or professional degrees. They are general liberal arts degrees. That includes degrees in Business. An English major is just as able to get a job as a Business major or any other major - what matters is their skills. Even graduate programs like medicine or law do not require any particular major. Just a general college degree. People get too hung up on their major, as if being a History major means you're relegated to getting a job as an Historian. People who say "what are you going to do with a degree in <History, English, etc.>" don't know what they're talking about. You're going to do the same thing that anyone with any other college degree does - get a job. If you want to go into a field that requires a specific degree, like jobs with state requirements (physician, lawyer, etc.), then obviously you get that degree. Otherwise, it doesn't matter so much.

[Eug Wanker]

People get too hung up on their major, as if being a History major means you're relegated to getting a job as an Historian.

Quoted for truth.

When I was in undergrad, my school had three classes of degrees: Faculty, Major, and Honours.

ALL gave you the exact same credentials - B.Sc., but it just meant that if you were a Major you took more classes in that specific field than a Faculty student. In Honours, you took even more classes in that field, which meant you had almost no electives. (In actual fact, Faculty at my school was equivalent to Major in other schools in the amount of required courses in your field that had to be taken. Major at my school had more requirements than most schools. And the requirements for Honours were just stupid IMO.)

I was in the Faculty stream, because it allowed me more freedom to take what I wanted and it wouldn't make much difference later about getting a job. In fact it wouldn't have made much of a difference even going into a Master's degree in the same field. However, few of my classmates could understand this and many did choose the Honours program, only to be rewarded with much less interesting classes, and virtually no benefit to their career.

[driven]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Don't do a Master's just for the sake of doing a Master's. That's the way to guarantee you'll hate it. Also, really analyze your job prospects after getting that Master's. Some Master's degrees are more useful than others, but even if you did get a Master's in biochemistry for example, that doesn't help you much if you don't want to work in the field.

P.S. You can't judge a job solely by its title. In some companies, everyone and their dog is an "analyst". At other places, a "coordinator" can be quite a huge responsibility. I know one person who went from being a "research coordinator" in a university dept to a VP of a health sciences company.



Heh. Well, even in North America, med school is often considered sort of an undergraduate degree by some universities, even though it is called an MD.

It's sort of its own separate category anyway - you can't really compare it to a traditional undergraduate degree or a graduate degree. It's a professional degree, tailored to a specific group of career paths.

An MD (or even a JD for that matter) is considered a "first professional degree", not really the same as a Ph.D. or other research degree, but absolutely more specialized than your run-of-the-mill Bachelor degree.

[Eug Wanker]

Originally Posted by driven 

An MD (or even a JD for that matter) is considered a "first professional degree", not really the same as a Ph.D. or other research degree, but absolutely more specialized than your run-of-the-mill Bachelor degree.

Of course it's specialized, but it is considered by many places as an undergraduate degree. Thus, even in in North America, a person in med school is often considered a student in "undergraduate medicine".

I think this just again illustrates the fact that titles and terminology don't always have the same meanings for everyone.

[olePigeon]

My brother makes 80K/year programming PHP & SQL at Yahoo. He doesn't even have a college degree. I think it depends on where you live, what your job is, and how much experience you have. Sometimes experience is more important than a degree.

[Y3a]

I know sales&marketing guys making over $150K/year with just a few specialized classes, and I know of some companies (SI International in Reston, Va for example) that have people with Masters Degrees doing admin tasks. They think education is everything, so they have all sorts of jerks, and folks with poor personality traits(But Degrees) trying to do business with the FedGov. The non-jerks have left in droves, and are leaving SI stuck with lots of stuff they can't complete because they don'e even communicate with each other.

[hayesk]

Originally Posted by Zeeb 

Well, I was looking the other day at some admin assistant jobs that required or requested a masters.

A real masters or an MBA?

[ghporter]

I'm in a professional Masters program; as of this coming January, entry level for occupational therapists is a MS. That's a lot different from an MBA, by the way.

Some of my faculty has both an MD and a PhD, and some have MD and EdD. Our associate dean has his PhD not in "education" but in "educational psychology," which is significantly different-the "how" of learning is not much related to what education majors think it is.

Eug is spot on about getting the degree for its own sake. Graduate work is HARD!!! And while "full time" for an MS program is typically about 6 hours, you can wind up carrying a lot more hours just to get the classes you need to get the classes that support what you're writing about for your thesis. My current load is 16 hours (and all of it's professional courses only because I got my prereqs out of the way early!). The point is that you need to be passionate about both WHAT you're studying and WHY you're studying it. I already know what I want to make my PhD research on, and I'm in the second semester of a three year program!

On the other hand, my brother works for a programming firm that basically throws bushels of money at him, and he has no degree at all, while my BS in Computer Science doesn't even get me a discount on a cup of coffee... It all depends on the field, so think about what you want to do before you decide what kind of position you want to become qualified for.

[Apple Pro Underwear]

Grad degree is no scam, when you get one things will open up for you.

However, you're the only one who decided how far you go. Contacts, connections, friends and all that combined with how much of a business man you are will get you bling up the wazoo.

[Sealobo]

it's insurance.

when everyone has something better than what you have, you could be easily overlooked. it's a systematical way to classification. it's pretty fair in certain extend; you work hard, earn yourself some additional papers and get better pay. you could be smarter, a faster leraner, but you won't be given the opportunity to perform if you're not qualified.

[Kr0nos]

Well, I've done a lot of thinking and research regarding educational degrees and career opportunities and this is what I've come up with:

The number one most important thing to have are social contacts and "connections".

Most job requirements simply use specific degrees as a "filtering" systems - not in terms of determining "skill or knowledge", but in terms of determining a person's overall "worth" (for lack of a better term)

Also, a diploma without any job experience in that particular field is pretty much worthless these days. On the other hand, having an excellent resumé, even without the proper educational requirements, can get you in the door faster than having a degree with just an ordinary CV.

The trick is to combine everything and have one aspect of your total marketable "self" supplement and improve the other.

[driven]

Originally Posted by Eug Wanker 

Of course it's specialized, but it is considered by many places as an undergraduate degree. Thus, even in in North America, a person in med school is often considered a student in "undergraduate medicine".

I think this just again illustrates the fact that titles and terminology don't always have the same meanings for everyone.

I was agreeing with you.

[driven]

Originally Posted by Kr0nos 

The number one most important thing to have are social contacts and "connections".

That's one of the major benefits of grad school ... the ability to network with other professionals in your field.

[Monique]

Education is important, no matter what you want to do.

Arts degrees are kind of a joke, because you have to be extremely lucky to get a job in that field.

I guess some type of good renumeration is important but that should not be the main reason that pushes you toward one field or the other. Because if you hate your job, days are very very long and in the end you will not do a good job. Also, too many professionals today are doing their job because of the pay at the end of the week and they do not care and do a miserable job.

[hart]

I've been considering the MS in digital design at NYU for several semesters now and I've had pros and cons from lots of people. I'm in my 40's and starting a second career after 10 years of work in design and 10 years of at-home parenting.

In the long run, it seems like a degree can be useful but is not a guarantee of $$ or success. I agree with all the networking advocates. As a computer geek it's too easy to get stuck behind a screen and never meet any real people which originally motivated me to get out and take continuing ed classes.

But for me the program itself sounds like great fun. It would be a treat for me to be studying and learning that stuff. The school work part wouldn't be the actual work. Trying to keep the rest of my life going while going to school would be the tough part.

The debt is an unfortunate side effect but I also am not getting too worked up over it. I want to be working at something that makes me want to get up in the morning, and presumably that will make it easier to make the money to pay back the debt.

That's the part that seems to be missing from your post: the eagerness to learn something in particular. I agree with the people who say that if it's just a better salary that you want, actual job experience is just fine. Two years of working would probably be more efficacious on that front than two years of school unless you're trying for something particular like medicine. It took me 25 years, two undergrad degrees and two continuing ed "certificates" to finally find something that makes my brain light up and that would make it worth it to take more school.

so, my conclusion, don't do it unless you really want to do the learning part too.

[Zeeb]

All of you make really good points. This has been a struggle for me for far too long and I'm tired of it. When I was earning my undergraduate, I went to an academic counselor because I couldn't pick my major. She told me just to randomly pick one because in her opinion it didn't matter. Since I had a mild interest in broadcasting, I chose that with a minor in marketing and managed to complete my degree. After graduation, I stayed in broadcasting for a whole 10 months before quitting.

So, I ended up in the coordinator position I'm in now and its so boring I can't even express it properly. Most of the time there is nothing for me to do. I ask for things to do and I'm told count the ceiling tiles and divide by twelve. Recently I asked for more duties to try and diversify myself a little--but those duties infringed upon and threatened another employee and so it was a dead end. I don't know why I'm here and if I were a manager I would lay myself off immediately cause my presence is wasting money. They are all good people that I work with and so I feel guilty. I would like to quit, and I've interviewed at a number of positions--some second interviews-- but no luck so far. I have rent to pay and this job compensates me well for what I do so I don't just want to up and leave without something to go to. Many of the positions I interview for pay less than what I make here--that is how desperate I am.

At any rate, I'm still paying off my useless undergraduate which is where my reluctance to take on more debt comes into play. Many have pointed out that your interest in a subject should be what drives you to pursue an advanced education and I wholeheartedly agree. Most sucessful people take an interest in what they do of course. But I think of my friend who got her master's in Comparative religion two years ago and is very unhappy right now working at an office doing billing. She is trying to get back into her field--by looking for a school to pursue her doctorate! There is something about that strategy that bothers me somehow.

Right now the only skills I have are skills that would get me a job I probably wouldn't appreciate -- so I'm trying to figure out how to leverage them to break into something newer. Though, I really don't have many professional contacts and so that is limiting.

Sorry I'm rambling. I really appreciate all the comments and help people have provided on this thread and it's been insightful to me. At the same time I look for another job, I will try and consider a field of study without obessessing over the cost so much.