[Cody Dawg]

Police stealing cash and other goods from people illegally.

BRADENTON -- For years, the Bradenton Police Department has quietly, without judicial review, confiscated hundreds of thousands of dollars in cash and property from people they arrested for drug possession and other crimes.

The police bypass the courts and confiscate money and property on the spot through a department-created form called the "Contraband Forfeiture Agreement." By signing it, a person agrees to relinquish their property to the police and waive any rights they have to try to get it back through the courts.

In some cases -- including one last year where police seized more than $43,000 from a man during a traffic stop -- people have signed over cash and other property without ever getting charged with a crime.

Bradenton is a city south of The Godfather and just outside of Sarasota, Florida.

For years I've been saying that a lot of the cops in South Florida are crooked, including these ones, the taser-happy white supremacists in Delray Beach/Boynton Beach, Florida, and in Lee County (Fort Myers), Florida.

What makes them think that they're above the law?

The sad truth is that even if they have to stop stealing money and goods from people - who are not proven to be criminals - nothing will happen to them. They'll just have to give the money and stuff back. Ordinary people would be charged with grand theft and other crimes.

[bstone]

I have seen the most utterly disturbing cases of abuse and harassment on the part of cops. I think the only way a police department should be allowed to legally function is with a civilian review board with complete control.

[Kevin]

Very good idea bstone.

[bstone]

Kevin, I think you're being on the level with me? I hope so. I volunteered as a "law enforcement explorer" for about 4 years as a kid with my local police department. We went on ride alongs, volunteered doing paperwork and crowd/parking control when the carnival came to town for a week every summer. While not a cop myself I did wear a similar uniform, have a radio (tho no gun).

While there were no clear signs of abuse while I was around I did hear the officers, on several occations, talking of wanting do things which scared me.

[mitchell_pgh]

Cops are human... all humans can be corrupt.

IMHO, it's worse when a teacher, police officer, fire safety, (any government official) is corrupt, but we need to stop being surprised by it and start holding them (and the enabler of said criminals) accountable and improving the methods of catching such criminals.

I give many low level enablers one "get off the hook FREE!" card, but if it happens again, they are just as guilty. Kinda like the "fool me once..." saying. Also, I'm intelligent enough to know that just because a few low level cops are corrupt doesn't indicate that the problem is systemic.

[bstone]

Problem is once you give someone a badge, a gun and the ability to at will take away the freedom of people who piss them off you have someone who has a high tendency to be much more corrupt.

[mitchell_pgh]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Problem is once you give someone a badge, a gun and the ability to at will take away the freedom of people who piss them off you have someone who has a high tendency to be much more corrupt.

Actually, they have proven that the people ENTERING police academies have a specific type of personality... I would say that it starts LONG before they have a badge or gun.

[reader50]

...
The police bypass the courts and confiscate money and property on the spot through a department-created form called the "Contraband Forfeiture Agreement." By signing it, a person agrees to relinquish their property to the police and waive any rights they have to try to get it back through the courts.
...

Ok, I don't want to sound defensive of any crooked cops here. Completely separately from that, signing any legal document without reading it first falls solidly in the Stupid Camp. So the local cops drop a paper in front of people, ask them to please sign, and people just do it?

The cops are supposed to protect us from criminals, and not neccessarily from our own stupidity. Such a fishing form shouldn't be out there. But anyone who signed it deserves what they got. Or lost, in this case. Next time, they'll read legal documents before signing.

[ambush]

Cops are legal criminals.

[Goldfinger]

Originally Posted by reader50 

Ok, I don't want to sound defensive of any crooked cops here. Completely separately from that, signing any legal document without reading it first falls solidly in the Stupid Camp. So the local cops drop a paper in front of people, ask them to please sign, and people just do it?

A lot of people will sign without reading/thinking because they are scared. And the correctness/legality of those documents will probably be the last thing on their mind.

[ghporter]

Originally Posted by ambush 

Cops are legal criminals.

And Mac users are elitist snobs. The only good absolute is the one that says "all absolutes are faulty." SOME cops are bad. MOST cops are good. But they are people who are supervised and managed by people, often without the resources needed to do the job correctly.

I would not be terribly surprised if the Bradenton cops started out their program because there was a huge amount of ambiguity in Federal rules for confiscating "drug profits" (and still is). Once you get a habit started, it sort of rolls along on its own. I doubt this was intended to be corrupt at all. Of course as was pointed out, anyone who signs a form for a policeman WITHOUT HIS LAWYER'S PRESENCE AND APPROVAL is dumb to the fourth or fifth degree. No judicial review means NOBODY EVER CHALLENGED THIS PRACTICE. And that's just horrible.

[The Godfather]

Some cops are crooks, but more cops are heros. The same officer that gave you a ticket yesterday might take a bullet for you tonight.

I don't know about this extreme case of $43k taken in a traffic stop. Cody, are you saying that this cop didn't have the reason to believe this man was a drug dealer, and the car needed to be searched?

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Kevin, I think you're being on the level with me? I hope so.

Yes I am. The trick is to make sure THAT committee isn't corrupt too.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Kevin 

Yes I am. The trick is to make sure THAT committee isn't corrupt too.

How about politicians overseeing that committee

-t

[James L]

I think the only way a police department should be allowed to legally function is with a civilian review board with complete control.

This is done in many areas. It is a good idea, provided it is not simply a board of civilians who know nothing about policing and are making uneducated decisions, but a board educated on policing issues.

We had a situation a while back where there was a 3rd party cell call for a man down. The gentleman in question was a street person, who woke up from his nap to adamantly refuse medical attention, and transport to hospital, when the paramedics arrived. The man was not well, but was alert, oriented, and able to make rational decisions.

This man died later that weekend of exposure. The "do-gooders" said it was the paramedics fault for not kidnapping the gentleman and abducting him away to the hospital.

The law said that the gentleman in question, as you and I are, was able to make his own decisions and that he had a legal right to refuse transport and treatment. Especially as it was a 3rd party call (the man did not call for himself).

In other words, the paramedics simply did their job.

Now, in the context of a civilian review or control board, I would support a board that reviewed the law, reviewed the medical literature, had a peer review of the actions of the paramedics performed, and made a sound decision based on that.

I would not support people on a civilian review board that emotional said "those cold paramedics left that poor man the street to die".

signing any legal document without reading it first falls solidly in the Stupid Camp

Yup. Personal responsibility anyone?

I'm intelligent enough to know that just because a few low level cops are corrupt doesn't indicate that the problem is systemic.

SOME cops are bad. MOST cops are good

Some cops are crooks, but more cops are heros. The same officer that gave you a ticket yesterday might take a bullet for you tonight.

The voices of reason right there folks.

Cheers,

James L

[JoshuaZ]

I'd rather take my chances with cops than criminals. At least you can expect them to be good the vast majority of the time.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Cody Dawg 

Police stealing cash and other goods from people illegally.

How does one legally steal things from people?

[- - e r i k - -]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

How does one legally steal things from people?

Tax them.





*bum-badda-pisch*

[bstone]

Originally Posted by James L 

This is done in many areas. It is a good idea, provided it is not simply a board of civilians who know nothing about policing and are making uneducated decisions, but a board educated on policing issues.

We had a situation a while back where there was a 3rd party cell call for a man down. The gentleman in question was a street person, who woke up from his nap to adamantly refuse medical attention, and transport to hospital, when the paramedics arrived. The man was not well, but was alert, oriented, and able to make rational decisions.

This man died later that weekend of exposure. The "do-gooders" said it was the paramedics fault for not kidnapping the gentleman and abducting him away to the hospital.

The law said that the gentleman in question, as you and I are, was able to make his own decisions and that he had a legal right to refuse transport and treatment. Especially as it was a 3rd party call (the man did not call for himself).

In other words, the paramedics simply did their job.

Now, in the context of a civilian review or control board, I would support a board that reviewed the law, reviewed the medical literature, had a peer review of the actions of the paramedics performed, and made a sound decision based on that.

I would not support people on a civilian review board that emotional said "those cold paramedics left that poor man the street to die".



Yup. Personal responsibility anyone?







The voices of reason right there folks.

Cheers,

James L

Just so happens I am an EMT and have been working full or part-time on an ambulance for 4 years now. If the homeless guy refuses care then taking him against his will to the hospital is the same as going into someone's house and taking their infant child without their permission. Kidnapping. It's DRILLED into our heads in EMT school (I did both Basic and Intermediate EMT school, 280+ hours of classroom time).

Yes, the public spin on things sometimes makes it seem criminal. When you talk to members of the public one on one, assuming they are rational and simply uneducated on the medicolegal issues, they agree with us (EMTs) in our refusal to kidnap a patient just because they actually do need emergency medical treatment.

That said, I am not sure how this exactly relates to the topic at hand.

Someone said that cops are legal criminals. Another said that they were "that way" before getting the badge and gun. I think both are true.

Yes, there are good cops- like my 1st cousin who is chief of the local police dept. At the same time there are many, many bad cops who makes it their business to ruin your day because theirs isn't going so well.

[Cody Dawg]

It's been kmown for years that if you were pulled over in many parts of Florida with any amount of cash over a couple thousand bucks that you stood a good chance of losing it.

The Bradenton cops have been pulling this crap for a while. to the Sarasota Herald Tribune (a paper I worked for a while ago) for having the kahunas to put it on the front page. I understand they have a LOT of information about corruption within the Bradenton police department that they didn't publish - yet.

Someone said:

Cody, are you saying that this cop didn't have the reason to believe this man was a drug dealer, and the car needed to be searched?

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. Here you go - from the same article:

Janie Brooks, 56, was in her front yard when police swooped in last month to target an area fraught with drug sales.

Brooks was arrested when investigators said they found drugs, and her car and cash were seized.

The incident, Brooks said, happened in a flash, and while she sat in the back of a police cruiser an officer prodded her until she signed over about $1,200 to the Bradenton Police Department.

She said she had no idea what she was signing -- only that police told her that "things would go a lot smoother" if she signed it.

"He kept rushing me, like, 'Go ahead, things will be better if you did,'" Brooks said. "It was like, there's gonna be some big time stuff that happens to me if I don't sign it."

An Article about Delane Johnson - whom the Bradenton police took $10K from yet had no reason to.

But several legal scholars and attorneys said the Bradenton method of confiscating property is dumbfounding -- and possibly illegal.

Why, they asked, when the state has a system in place to seize property through the courts, would a police agency ask people to give up their right to contest the seizure?

"It sounds like robbery to me," said Joseph Little, a law school professor at the University of Florida.

Tampa Bay defense attorney Denis DeVlaming said the practice of signed documents that give up the right to protest police seizures is sweeping.

DeVlaming has seen similar cases in Pinellas County, and believes the close-knit police community is looking for a quick fix instead of a lengthy court process to seize cash and vehicles.

"Why go through this long, drawn-out process when somebody signs a document and gives up all their rights? It's alarming," DeVlaming said. "And, to tell you the truth, I'm surprised it's not happening more often."

These cops - and others - are using scare tactics and forcing people to give up their cash and belongings.

They are nothing more than thugs and legal "Good ole boy" Southern mafia and it makes me sick to my stomach.

For those of you who don't know, Bradenton/Sarasota is a predominantly white middle to upper class area with a few fringe areas of minorities. The cops are predominantly white.

Maybe some of these cases ARE drug related. But absent any PROOF that the person is A) Involved with drugs or drug trafficking or B) That the person has committed a crime those cops have absolutely no - zero - right to take anyone's money or belongings.

[James L]

Originally Posted by bstone 

Just so happens I am an EMT and have been working full or part-time on an ambulance for 4 years now. If the homeless guy refuses care then taking him against his will to the hospital is the same as going into someone's house and taking their infant child without their permission. Kidnapping. It's DRILLED into our heads in EMT school (I did both Basic and Intermediate EMT school, 280+ hours of classroom time).

I have been a full time paramedic for 9 years. The example given was from one of my coworkers.

Yes, the public spin on things sometimes makes it seem criminal. When you talk to members of the public one on one, assuming they are rational and simply uneducated on the medicolegal issues, they agree with us (EMTs) in our refusal to kidnap a patient just because they actually do need emergency medical treatment.

I have had the same results.

That said, I am not sure how this exactly relates to the topic at hand.

Then you need to go back and read it in context of the text I quoted.

My example was in direct relation to the topic of having civilian review boards with complete control, which I quoted.

Had a civilian review board with complete control been in place over these paramedics, and had it been populated with civilians who emotionally felt these paramedics did wrong, that board could have tried to negatively impact the lives of paramedics who were simply doing their jobs correctly.

I simply stated that even the civilian review board would need to have strong parameters to ensure their decisions are made correctly.

Someone said that cops are legal criminals. Another said that they were "that way" before getting the badge and gun. I think both are true.

Yes, there are good cops- like my 1st cousin who is chief of the local police dept. At the same time there are many, many bad cops who makes it their business to ruin your day because theirs isn't going so well.

In my 9 years as a paramedic I have seen crappy cops, crappy EMTs, crappy medics, crappy nurses, crappy doctors, crappy x-ray techs, crappy firefighters, crappy gas station attendants, crappy 7-11 clerks, crappy journalists, crappy waitresses, etc.

As has been stated by others, and is so obviously clear, every profession has a minority of people who are less than desirable.

They are the minority, however.

[Big Mac]

What were these people hording cash in their cars for anyway? If a substantial amount of money is found in a car without any paper trail to substantiate its source, the presumption that it's ill gotten gain is reasonable. I don't see the point of getting indignant over this. Now if it were shown that cops were taking lawfully owned property out of people's cars and homes, that would a different story. I'm not the biggest fan of the police, but they should be accorded respect for the essential services they provide (along with EMTs and firefighters).

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

What were these people hording cash in their cars for anyway? If a substantial amount of money is found in a car without any paper trail to substantiate its source, the presumption that it's ill gotten gain is reasonable. I don't see the point of getting indignant over this. Now if it were shown that cops were taking lawfully owned property out of people's cars and homes, that would a different story. I'm not the biggest fan of the police, but they should be accorded respect for the essential services they provide (along with EMTs and firefighters).

WTF ?

So I can't have cash in my car, because it MUST have been illegally obtained ?

What a load of crap.

-t

[Big Mac]

We're talking about many thousands in cash without a paper trail.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

We're talking about many thousands in cash without a paper trail.

So what ? Is it a free country or not ?

Since when can ANYONE tell me what to do with my money ?

What happened to innocent until proven guilty ?

-t

[Big Mac]

Innocent until proven guilty is a convenient legal fiction, unfortunately.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

Innocent until proven guilty is a convenient legal fiction, unfortunately.

True, but you seem to be ok with large money amounts getting confiscated from cars.

On what legal grounds ?

-t

[Big Mac]

On the grounds that cops do not search cars without some form of probable cause, but once they have probable cause to conduct a search they have free reign to search the whole car and confiscate suspicious items. Based on long standing legal precedent, automobiles do not enjoy Fourth Amendment protection.

[turtle777]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

On the grounds that cops do not search cars without some form of probable cause, but once they have probable cause to conduct a search they have free reign to search the whole car and confiscate suspicious items. Based on long standing legal precedent, automobiles do not enjoy Fourth Amendment protection.

Alright, I have nothing to add.

That's why I resort to my standard phrase:

Only in Amaraca !

-t

[driven]

Originally Posted by bstone 

I have seen the most utterly disturbing cases of abuse and harassment on the part of cops. I think the only way a police department should be allowed to legally function is with a civilian review board with complete control.

That's the primary reason that police departments are civilian agencies and not military arms like most countries.

The thought being that since we were (theoretically) policing ourselves that it would be less corrupt.

[driven]

Originally Posted by Big Mac 

On the grounds that cops do not search cars without some form of probable cause, but once they have probable cause to conduct a search they have free reign to search the whole car and confiscate suspicious items. Based on long standing legal precedent, automobiles do not enjoy Fourth Amendment protection.

I'm not sure that they should enjoy 4th amendment protection. You are operating in a public area, on a publically funded roadway with no reasonable expectation of privacy.

(I know I'm going to open up a full can of worms with this one!)

[Dakar²]

Looks like overtime, everything becomes corrupt.

As it gets bigger, at least.

[Oisín]

In my 9 years as a paramedic I have seen crappy cops, crappy EMTs, crappy medics, crappy nurses, crappy doctors, crappy x-ray techs, crappy firefighters, crappy gas station attendants, crappy 7-11 clerks, crappy journalists, crappy waitresses, etc.

They are the minority, however.

You must have better 7–11 clerks in the States than we do here

[James L]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

You must have better 7–11 clerks in the States than we do here

...

[Your Mama]

Originally Posted by Oisín 

You must have better 7–11 clerks in the States than we do here

You got 7-11 in Denmark ?

Or is your point that NO 7-11 clerks is worse than crappy ones.
In that case, I would disagree.

[Oisín]

Yes, we have them here, too; have had for about four years or so, I think.