[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

For this reason, some HD DVD companies are claiming that TL HD DVD is still cheaper and easier to make than DL Blu-ray.

When this whole war first started I mentioned that this wouldn't be an issue though and it has proven true now as both disks formats are the same price per movie and blu-ray's lineup this year of movies is the same or bigger than HD-DVD's.

I got a couple 50 gig Blu-ray disks now and they were cheap. At least 50% of sony's upcoming titles are also 50 gig which they decide if they are going to use or not depending on movie length, extra's etc.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

When this whole war first started I mentioned that this wouldn't be an issue though and it has proven true now as both disks formats are the same price per movie and blu-ray's lineup this year of movies is the same or bigger than HD-DVD's.

I got a couple 50 gig Blu-ray disks now and they were cheap. At least 50% of sony's upcoming titles are also 50 gig which they decide if they are going to use or not depending on movie length, extra's etc.

The discs are priced the same, but it costs the studios MUCH more to make BD50 than it does to make HD30. Not even in the same league apparently.

To give you an idea... Not only does it cost more to master BD50, it takes 2.5s to make one dual-layer HD DVD, and over 4s to make one dual-layer Blu-ray disc. Obviously, this translates into a significant per disc cost difference. Furthermore, only a few replicators are capable of making BD50. Almost all the non-Sony Blu-ray replicators are only making BD25, with BD50 only in the testing phase.

In addition, it still costs several million bux to implement a Blu-ray stamping line. It is several times cheaper to implement HD DVD stamping equipment, partially because it just involves an update to current DVD stamping machines.

While you may not see the cost difference in your purchased Blu-ray discs from say Warner, this has a huge impact on the smaller studios, because they can't easily just eat the cost difference for producing the discs.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by Eug 

The discs are priced the same, but it costs the studios MUCH more to make BD50 than it does to make HD30. Not even in the same league apparently.

To give you an idea... Not only does it cost more to master BD50, it takes 2.5s to make one dual-layer HD DVD, and over 4s to make one dual-layer Blu-ray disc. Obviously, this translates into a significant per disc cost difference. Furthermore, only a few replicators are capable of making BD50. Almost all the non-Sony Blu-ray replicators are only making BD25, with BD50 only in the testing phase.

Hey I believe you. Problem is consumer don't give a crap as long as the end price is good.

As for studio support Blu-ray has more so it looks like that didn't make much of a difference either.


As for the porn:
No Porn On Blu-ray? Not Quite - Gizmodo

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Hey I believe you. Problem is consumer don't give a crap as long as the end price is good.

As for studio support Blu-ray has more so it looks like that didn't make much of a difference either.


As for the porn:
No Porn On Blu-ray? Not Quite - Gizmodo

Consumers will give a crap if the smaller studios simply skip Bluray.

Neither format is in a position to force studios into a format. At this point, the studios are going to be the ones choosing.

Speaking of price, you're just assuming the consumers are going to eat the $500 more for a Bluray player. What was that about the end price being good?

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Speaking of price, you're just assuming the consumers are going to eat the $500 more for a Bluray player. What was that about the end price being good?

Current Gen HD-DVD players and PS3's are the same price or damn near.

a 360 + HD is more than a PS3 in most configs.

And my point about the high manufacturing cost is for disks and so far Blu-ray is the same price and sometimes even cheaper so all that fuss was about nothing.

Small studio's ability to put a movie on either format are not going to end a war. The big rich ones will.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Current Gen HD-DVD players and PS3's are the same price or damn near.

a 360 + HD is more than a PS3 in most configs.

And my point about the high manufacturing cost is for disks and so far Blu-ray is the same price and sometimes even cheaper so all that fuss was about nothing.

Small studio's ability to put a movie on either format are not going to end a war. The big rich ones will.

The average person is not going to buy a PS3 for Bluray. The average person does not even know the PS3 has Bluray. Consumers are going to feel uncomfortable buying a game machine they don't want when all they do want is a Bluray player.

Stores aren't going to want to sell PS3's for Bluray players (and if you look, the PS3's aren't selling as game systems or Bluray players). They make less money selling the PS3. And the last thing they want to do is deal with some customer coming back in wondering where the heck their normal remote is and how they navigate through a whole menu of game options they never cared about to begin with.

If the PS3 is so gosh darn cheap, one has to wonder why Sony doesn't just make a Bluray player that is cheaper than the PS3. My girlfriends parents had a PS2 as a DVD player, and they were pretty happy to give that thing the boot and replace it with a normal DVD player. Sure, they could play games on it, but they didn't care. They hated the control scheme for the Sony DVD player and hated having to use a game controller to control DVD's. At the end of the day, they just went with a normal DVD player.

[Dark Helmet]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The average person is not going to buy a PS3 for Bluray. The average person does not even know the PS3 has Bluray.

Can you show me data to support that because the last data to come out (not your guesses) showed that 80% of PS3 owners plan to use it as their main DVD player/entertainment centre and at least 25% plan on buying Blu-ray movies.

With 2 million shipped and a modest estimate of 1 in 4 PS3 owners buying a blu-ray movie it already puts it ahead of HD-DVD.

But lets forget that for now and check back in 6 months where there is some more real data.

[Eug]

The PS3 is not a proper Blu-ray player IMO. AFAIK, it won't output 1080i from 720p material (and HD porn is apparently often 720p), and there is no IR support. Hell, it doesn't even come with a remote.

The cheapest one is also $100 more (street) than the Toshiba HD-A2, which is a proper HD DVD player.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Dark Helmet 

Can you show me data to support that because the last data to come out (not your guesses) showed that 80% of PS3 owners plan to use it as their main DVD player/entertainment centre and at least 25% plan on buying Blu-ray movies.

With 2 million shipped and a modest estimate of 1 in 4 PS3 owners buying a blu-ray movie it already puts it ahead of HD-DVD.

But lets forget that for now and check back in 6 months where there is some more real data.

Those numbers don't disprove my point at all. 80% of people planned to use it as their DVD player. That doesn't mean 80% of people bought it specifically to replace their DVD player. Or that 80% bought it primarily to play Bluray movies.

Instead, your numbers say that 80% of people plan to play DVD's on it, and only 25% plan to play Bluray movies on it. And most likely, these are people who bought it as a game system who get the fringe benefit of it playing DVD's. These numbers say nothing about the PS3 selling specifically as a Bluray player solution.

[olePigeon]

Originally Posted by Eug 

... and HD porn is apparently often 720p ...

Apparently the porn industry is going with HD-DVD because it's cheaper, so it won't even work on their PS3. They'll have to settle for Extreme Beach Volleyball.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by olePigeon 

Apparently the porn industry is going with HD-DVD because it's cheaper, so it won't even work on their PS3. They'll have to settle for Extreme Beach Volleyball.

They're going with HD DVD because:

1) It's cheaper.
2) Sony and/or other replicators is blocking them from getting their Blu-ray discs replicated. Vivid DOES have a Blu-ray replicator, but even they say the Blu-ray replicators said no for the most part. Vivid had a very tough time getting one too. Nobody else in the porn industry has yet been able to get a replicator for Blu-ray. I've heard 3 different companies say this so far. So... Everyone on the porn side in the US is HD DVD, with one of them doing both HD DVD and Blu-ray.

BTW, this isn't affecting only the porn companies. I've heard at least one non-porn company that has some lesser known movies with lots of graphic content that has also been refused.

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Those numbers don't disprove my point at all. 80% of people planned to use it as their DVD player. That doesn't mean 80% of people bought it specifically to replace their DVD player. Or that 80% bought it primarily to play Bluray movies.

Instead, your numbers say that 80% of people plan to play DVD's on it, and only 25% plan to play Bluray movies on it. And most likely, these are people who bought it as a game system who get the fringe benefit of it playing DVD's. These numbers say nothing about the PS3 selling specifically as a Bluray player solution.

Granted, I am far from average but I bought a PS3 to primarily use as a Blu-Ray player. Games are an added bonus.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

Granted, I am far from average but I bought a PS3 to primarily use as a Blu-Ray player. Games are an added bonus.

Sure, especially among to more technical crowd there are going to be many more exceptions. But bring the average consumer into a Best Buy, and when the salesman starts talking about the PS3 and all the accessories that one would need to get it working like a normal Bluray player (remote, etc), their eyes will start to glaze over and they'll start looking at HD DVD.

The average consumer just wants everything in one box that works as closely to their last player as possible. The PS3 does not satisfy these needs.

Not to mention the more technical users are the ones more inclined to pirate anyways. I don't think the movie studios are going to go out of their way to release movies in a format of choice of that crowd.

[Buckaroo]

I wonder if this will have any affect on the decision of which to go with.

[H]ard|OCP - www.hardocp.com

[Buckaroo]

Darn, someone else already noticed.

[icruise]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The average person is not going to buy a PS3 for Bluray. The average person does not even know the PS3 has Bluray. Consumers are going to feel uncomfortable buying a game machine they don't want when all they do want is a Bluray player.

All this talk about people buying the PS3 just as a Blu-ray player really misses the point. It's not about people buying the PS3 just to watch movies (although some may do so at the very beginning). It's about people who would be buying the PS3 anyway finding themselves with a Blu-ray player. Many of these people are going to start buying Blu-ray movies. Even if HD-DVD players are cheaper than Blu-ray players, very few PS3 owners will go out and spend several hundred dollars for an HD-DVD player when they already have a Blu-ray player. It's as simple as that, and that's the advantage that Sony's going for.

But bring the average consumer into a Best Buy, and when the salesman starts talking about the PS3 and all the accessories that one would need to get it working like a normal Bluray player (remote, etc), their eyes will start to glaze over and they'll start looking at HD DVD.

"Remote, etc?" What else do you think you need?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by icruise 

All this talk about people buying the PS3 just as a Blu-ray player really misses the point. It's not about people buying the PS3 just to watch movies (although some may do so at the very beginning). It's about people who would be buying the PS3 anyway finding themselves with a Blu-ray player. Many of these people are going to start buying Blu-ray movies. Even if HD-DVD players are cheaper than Blu-ray players, very few PS3 owners will go out and spend several hundred dollars for an HD-DVD player when they already have a Blu-ray player. It's as simple as that, and that's the advantage that Sony's going for.

This isn't going to be the average consumer, and isn't going to give Bluray critical mass. I wasn't even the one who brought up the idea of the PS3 being a cheap Bluray player for the normal consumer.