[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Which is great and all, but that was a SCSI burner. The iMac shipped with USB 1.0 only, which is too slow really for a CD burner. SCSI was faster than USB, making the iMac somewhat of a downgrade for people who used external drives.

Wrong USB could run burners up to 4X. I have setup plenty of those around that time.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

Wrong USB could run burners up to 4X. I have setup plenty of those around that time.

How many iMac owners do you think had external USB CD drives? The reality is that Apple sold a lot of machines where the way most consumers got data off the computer was the modem or the ethernet port.

[brassplayersrock²]

blu-ray/hd-dvd... who is winning?

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by goMac 

How many iMac owners do you think had external USB CD drives? The reality is that Apple sold a lot of machines where the way most consumers got data off the computer was the modem or the ethernet port.

If you wanted a burner that was the only option at the time for the iMac. I personally knew tons of people with external burners at that time on more than just iMacs.

[Lateralus]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

blu-ray/hd-dvd... who is winning?

This thread must rival anything seen elsewhere. Other than High Def Digest, anyways.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Honestly, probably 80% of the non techie people I know use iTunes. The people who use CD's continue to do so out of habit. iTunes is the world's 5th largest music store. I'm sure quite a few average users use it.



Again, you assume Apple cares about Mac gaming? As I said, Aspyr is working on their online store. IIRC it was announced almost two years ago. With Steam as my example, it is technically feasible. I was buying games on Steam 3 years ago, and presently many of your average gamers use it.



I actually do run Steam in Crossover, but that's besides the point. I'm not sure your average user is going to play that many games... But again, Aspyr is working on gaming downloads, and it has been technically possible for a while.



Well, this is a perfect example. Instead of having your sister learn how to burn things to CD, there are many available iPhoto plugins to submit your photos to a photo printing place online. In fact, iPhoto has a built in way to submit photos to Kodak for printing. Your example shows how cumbersome a optical drive is for the end user.



The Mac is always a platform that's ahead of the curve. I'm sure PC's will hold onto optical drives for a while more, but Apple is going to lead the market, not follow it.

Using iTunes and getting your movies from iTunes are two hugely different things. Yes, the average user now acquires music digitally. However, the average user still uses CD's. I see it at school all the time. My students burn each other CD's, bring PowerPoints in on CD, save downloaded videos on discs, all manner of stuff.

And Mac gaming may not be that important, but gaming is huge and the overwhelming majority of those games are sold on discs.

As to when Mac makes its move away from optical, you've also got to remember that Apple is in an entirely different position now than they were when they made the first iMac. Mac is now aspiring for serious market share. An off-the-wall move would be too risky now, whereas during the era of the original iMac, Apple really didn't have much to lose.

Obviously someday the industry will outgrow optical discs. I wager, though, that we won't see the first commercial Mac without them until 2012, or maybe not until...next week!

Ha ha, fooled ya. That new subnotebook probably won't have a drive. Maybe if it pans out then Apple will start moving that direction. We'll see.

[mrtew]

Originally Posted by PaperNotes 

Dude, they care a lot because when unemployment figures rise the stock market gets hurt by that news every time. ...

Actually when a company announces that they have reduced their number of employees their stock goes up. Every time. Companies only care about their stock price, not the 'stock market'.

[awaspaas]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The reality is there is nothing your average consumer needs an optical drive for, just as there wasn't anything your average consumer needed a floppy drive for.

What about major OS upgrades? It will be quite a while before any reasonable percentage of the population can easily download an 8 GB OS.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by brassplayersrock² 

blu-ray/hd-dvd... who is winning?

Recap:

Blu-Ray won this week when Warner decided to shift its support exclusively to Blu-Ray based on fourth quarter sales that favored Blu-Ray over HD-DVD, 70% to 30%. Basically, they're afraid that if they don't settle on one format now then the HD movie market will move to digital downloads before either disc format can get established--and that market promises to be less profitable than discs that can be sold in brick and mortar shops.

HD-DVD is dead. Long-live Blu-Ray.

[starman]

Originally Posted by goMac 

When did the first iMac with either a bus fast enough to feed a CD burner, or a internal CD burner come out?

Apple shipped consumer machines for quite a while with no way to get files off except for the modem/ethernet.

That's not what you said. You said CDs didn't burn then. They did.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Using iTunes and getting your movies from iTunes are two hugely different things. Yes, the average user now acquires music digitally. However, the average user still uses CD's. I see it at school all the time. My students burn each other CD's, bring PowerPoints in on CD, save downloaded videos on discs, all manner of stuff.

My feeling is that Apple feels that people will mostly watch their movies on a TV, but they'll have that external drive as a stop gap for people who still need to watch things on DVD.

CD music is pretty easy for Apple to deal with. They'll just tell people to use iTunes.

The school district I work for has already gone optical free at the urging of Apple years and years ago. Each student has a folder on a server that is world accessible from Windows or OS X.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

And Mac gaming may not be that important, but gaming is huge and the overwhelming majority of those games are sold on discs.

And on the PC side at least, most those games are also sold on Steam. Take a look at their catalog sometime. Between Steam and Gametap I've only bought a few games recently, and Gametap is certainly something marketed towards your average consumer.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

As to when Mac makes its move away from optical, you've also got to remember that Apple is in an entirely different position now than they were when they made the first iMac. Mac is now aspiring for serious market share. An off-the-wall move would be too risky now, whereas during the era of the original iMac, Apple really didn't have much to lose.

I doubt that Apple dropping the floppy drive from the iMac helped them gain market share. I mean, I don't remember anyone saying "A computer without a floppy drive, I must buy it!" Apple will drop the optical drive because it saves space, makes the computer more reliable, and lets them push better designs.

Edit: Sorry, reread what you wrote. I think Apple dropping the floppy from the iMac was completely a design decision, like dropping the CD drive would be now. I think your average consumer is far less dependent on optical media than they think.

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Ha ha, fooled ya. That new subnotebook probably won't have a drive. Maybe if it pans out then Apple will start moving that direction. We'll see.

Same thing happened with the floppy drive. The iMac dropped it first, then the laptops, then the towers finally dropped their zip drives. Once Apple starts the process I give it two years until optical drives are gone across the line, except for the Mac Pros.

Originally Posted by awaspaas 

What about major OS upgrades? It will be quite a while before any reasonable percentage of the population can easily download an 8 GB OS.

Yeah, I mentioned this. With the new Macbooks I guess we'll find out what Apple's plan is. I'm guessing thumb drive. In the future I think Apple will just have people Netboot to a restore server over the internet, but I doubt that would be something people would be ready for by next week.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

That's not what you said. You said CDs didn't burn then. They did.

Did I? Oh, I did. I meant in the context of the iMac. I had a CD burner on my G3 tower back then, and I have a Mac repair guide from like 1993 detailing different brands of old fangled CD burners, so I'm aware there were cd burners on the market. But burners were way out of reach of your average consumer.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

My feeling is that Apple feels that people will mostly watch their movies on a TV, but they'll have that external drive as a stop gap for people who still need to watch things on DVD.

CD music is pretty easy for Apple to deal with. They'll just tell people to use iTunes.

The school district I work for has already gone optical free at the urging of Apple years and years ago. Each student has a folder on a server that is world accessible from Windows or OS X.



And on the PC side at least, most those games are also sold on Steam. Take a look at their catalog sometime. Between Steam and Gametap I've only bought a few games recently, and Gametap is certainly something marketed towards your average consumer.



I doubt that Apple dropping the floppy drive from the iMac helped them gain market share. I mean, I don't remember anyone saying "A computer without a floppy drive, I must buy it!" Apple will drop the optical drive because it saves space, makes the computer more reliable, and lets them push better designs.

Edit: Sorry, reread what you wrote. I think Apple dropping the floppy from the iMac was completely a design decision, like dropping the CD drive would be now. I think your average consumer is far less dependent on optical media than they think.



Same thing happened with the floppy drive. The iMac dropped it first, then the laptops, then the towers finally dropped their zip drives. Once Apple starts the process I give it two years until optical drives are gone across the line, except for the Mac Pros.



Yeah, I mentioned this. With the new Macbooks I guess we'll find out what Apple's plan is. I'm guessing thumb drive. In the future I think Apple will just have people Netboot to a restore server over the internet, but I doubt that would be something people would be ready for by next week.

Earth to GoMac: Your usage patterns do not reflect the average user.

Just because it *can* be done, does not mean it *will* be done.

Really man, you seem to enjoy beating dead horses, but me...it gets old.

Wait and see who's right.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

Earth to GoMac: Your usage patterns do not reflect the average user.

God forbid Apple do anything new.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Did I? Oh, I did. I meant in the context of the iMac. I had a CD burner on my G3 tower back then, and I have a Mac repair guide from like 1993 detailing different brands of old fangled CD burners, so I'm aware there were cd burners on the market. But burners were way out of reach of your average consumer.

I remember cheap USB burners coming out for the iMac months after it first came out.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES 

I remember cheap USB burners coming out for the iMac months after it first came out.

Yup, there were tons of them, they had accessories for the iMac like they do the iPod now. Everyone was making Bondi blue external everything. Hard drives, cd-burners, USB hubs, floppy drives, etc.