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hyteckit · Jan 14, 2008, 03:52 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

Yes, it would be a glorified DVD player, and again, I think this would be the only way for HD-DVD to survive. Sell them as glorified DVD players, hope some of those people you sell to pick up HD-DVD's on the side, and then maybe if you last long enough and gain enough of an install base you can convince a few studios to go neutral a year or two down the road.

There is no way the prosumer crowd is going to be convinced to go HD-DVD at this point.

Maybe if it was early in the game, but it's near the end of the game. Sell HDDVD movies or die. There is no one or two year down the road. It's the next few months or that's it.

analogue SPRINKLES · Jan 14, 2008, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by goMac

I'm hoping that this post was just to inform SWG. Otherwise the Bluray crowd would be completely devoid of any sense of sarcasm.

Do me a favor and stop mentioning me when you don't know something.

hyteckit · Jan 14, 2008, 03:54 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Since most of the people I know who bought HD-DVD players at Christmas sent/took their units back, after Warner Bros' announcement, I don't know how well this will work.

Most of the people you know? How many is that? What you are saying just isn't true. There are only a few who returned them.

goMac · Jan 14, 2008, 03:55 PM

Originally Posted by analogue SPRINKLES

Do me a favor and stop mentioning me when you don't know something.

You're right. I had no idea that Dell and Alienware shipped computers with Bluray.

hyteckit · Jan 14, 2008, 03:56 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

What would one use home-made hi def disks for, other than piracy? Be honest.. a majority of the uses would be piracy-related.

Hidef home movies and wedding videos maybe? Never own a camcorder?

jokell82 · Jan 14, 2008, 04:01 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

What would one use home-made hi def disks for, other than piracy? Be honest.. a majority of the uses would be piracy-related.

We have an HD camera here at work and shoot plenty of video with it. As it stands we have to convert it for DVD. Would be nice to be able to burn it to an HD viewable format as well.

Kerrigan · Jan 14, 2008, 04:11 PM

I'm sure a solution to that will come. But we all know that there is far more pirated content available to anyone with a PC and an internet connection, and that most people aren't going to be using rip/burn features to make wedding videos.

hyteckit · Jan 14, 2008, 04:34 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I'm sure a solution to that will come. But we all know that there is far more pirated content available to anyone with a PC and an internet connection, and that most people aren't going to be using rip/burn features to make wedding videos.

You mean since most PC owners with a DVD burner have an internet connection to download movies and DVD iso, no one is buying DVDs anymore?

Shaddim · Jan 14, 2008, 04:35 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

I dunno but this guy went through all sorts of speakers and amps. I swear he must have spent $30000 on a 2-channel stereo system after all was said and done. Personally I thought he was nuts, but short version is that every time he auditioned SACD for me I was completely unimpressed... just like I've been less than enthused with DVD-A (which I own).

This isn't very surprising. I've auditioned many systems that looked great on paper, and cost well in excess of $50K, which were poorly implemented or ineffectively setup. However, just because something is on SACD or DVD-A doesn't mean it's automatically going to be better than CD, I've listened to too many poorly mixed discs. Not to mention, most rock/pop music is limited in it's dynamic range, due to compression and poor mastering techniques, and isn't likely going to benefit from higher resolution formats. Considering, however, how much classical I listen to, I've really enjoyed my Integra DPS-10.5.

I can't wait until Integra Research releases their universal Blu-ray, DVD, SACD, etc. etc. player. May even buy the thing new, and I almost never do that sort of thing.

Shaddim · Jan 14, 2008, 04:37 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

Most of the people you know? How many is that? What you are saying just isn't true. There are only a few who returned them.

It's just ancedotal, but I know 10 people who bought those ultra-cheap players during x-mas, and 7 took them back after WB made their announcement. They weren't very amused.

hyteckit · Jan 14, 2008, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

It's just ancedotal, but I know 10 people who bought those ultra-cheap players during x-mas, and 7 took them back after WB made their announcement. They weren't very amused.

For every anecdote that says there are many returns after the WB announcement, there are more anecdote that says otherwise. Retailers and Toshiba already said it wasn't true.

Eug · 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

What would one use home-made hi def disks for, other than piracy? Be honest.. a majority of the uses would be piracy-related.

My friend brought over his HD camcorder last week and I was testing it out.

HD camcorders are extremely common now, considering they're in the sub $1000 price range already. If I were buying a camcorder today, I'd only consider an HD one.

Originally Posted by Kerrigan

I'm sure a solution to that will come. But we all know that there is far more pirated content available to anyone with a PC and an internet connection, and that most people aren't going to be using rip/burn features to make wedding videos.

I guess you've never used iDVD then. Camcorders are extremely popular, and iDVD is a great complement to that. HD is just the next step.

It would be very easy to add HD DVD support to iDVD (since it already exists in DVD SP and in some ways it's like a DVD on steroids), but it doesn't seem they can realistically add Blu-ray to that at the moment. (We'll see tomorrow, but I would be very surprised if they added Blu-ray to iDVD at Macworld.) It seems the Blu-ray manufacturers must be intentionally preventing this, because otherwise I just can't explain it. For example, although the concept exists, Blu-ray on DVD-R simply doesn't work at the moment. The PS3 can't play back Blu-ray on DVD-R. The PS3 (along with Sony and Panasonic Blu-ray standalones) can play back AVCHD (which is very similar to Blu-ray) on DVD-R, but AVCHD is not an official Blu-ray format. I think they're doing this to push people to use AVCHD, since it's another format that Sony developed (along with Panasonic). So who cares if it's an official format or not? Well, if you burn AVCHD instead of proper Blu-ray, it won't work on many standalone Blu-ray players cuz, well, it's not proper Blu-ray.

Besides the AVCHD angle, I guess they're afraid of piracy as you suggest... yet they allow burning of the exact same stuff to BD-R. Burn a true Blu-ray project to BD-R and it works, but burn it to DVD-R and it doesn't... even if it's some wedding video that's only 20 minutes long and only takes up 2 GB. Burn it to DVD-R in HD DVD format, and it works just fine, an all HD DVD players ever made. And basic HD DVDs like that (if using MPEG2 or AVC) will work in DVD Player too on Macs.

The ironic part of all of this Blu-ray seems quite ill-suited for home computers at this time, despite its very nice 25/50 GB storage capacity.

Originally Posted by Shaddim

This isn't very surprising. I've auditioned many systems that looked great on paper, and cost well in excess of $50K, which were poorly implemented or ineffectively setup. However, just because something is on SACD or DVD-A doesn't mean it's automatically going to be better than CD, I've listened to too many poorly mixed discs. Not to mention, most rock/pop music is limited in it's dynamic range, due to compression and poor mastering techniques, and isn't likely going to benefit from higher resolution formats. Considering, however, how much classical I listen to, I've really enjoyed my Integra DPS-10.5.

Which is why DVD-A and SACD were doomed to failure. Spend $30000 and it still sounds the same.

With hi-def media, you can see a significant improvement on hardware available at Wal-Mart.

Shaddim · Jan 14, 2008, 04:46 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

For every anecdote that says there are many returns after the WB announcement, there are more anecdote that says otherwise. Retailers and Toshiba already said it wasn't true.

Well, Grrrr! Be defensive.

I'm just telling what I've witnessed.

Shaddim · Jan 14, 2008, 04:51 PM

Originally Posted by Eug

Which is why DVD-A and SACD were doomed to failure. Spend $30000 and it still sounds the same.

For most rock discs, that is true. I still buy the SACD versions of most things, if I can, but just because they're hybrid media.

hyteckit · Jan 14, 2008, 05:05 PM

Originally Posted by Shaddim

Well, Grrrr! Be defensive.

I'm just telling what I've witnessed.

I'm not being defensive against what you witness. I'm was merely countering your defensive argument that most people are returning their HDDVD players solely based on your anecdotal evidence.

If you have said what you had witness most of your friends had return their HDDVD player after the Warner annoucement, I wouldn't have said a word. But you are making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players after the Warner announcement.

Shaddim · Jan 14, 2008, 05:45 PM

Originally Posted by hyteckit

I'm not being defensive against what you witness. I'm was merely countering your defensive argument that most people are returning their HDDVD players solely based on your anecdotal evidence.

If you have said what you had witness most of your friends had return their HDDVD player after the Warner annoucement, I wouldn't have said a word. But you are making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players after the Warner announcement.

No, I wasn't "making generalize claims that most people are returning their HDDVD players". I said, "Since most of the people I know who bought HD-DVD players at Christmas sent/took their units back, after Warner Bros' announcement, I don't know how well this will work".

I never made a "defensive argument", whatever that is.

mrtew · Jan 14, 2008, 06:00 PM

Originally Posted by jokell82

Nobody has been "snapping up BR movies" just like no one was snapping up HD DVD movies. Both formats sell way too few copies to be considered a success.

Who has ever said or even implied that either was a success and what does that have to do with it? There was a format war going on and people would have to be stupid to snap up discs of either format knowing they had a 50% chance of getting scruwed over. Now that Blu-ray has won it has a chance of being a success. People didn't fail to flock to either format because they didn't like them, it was because they were too smart to. Geez, stop implying that people didn't like either one. So dumb.