[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Unless you actually sit down and witness it, then the bragging stops and the jaw-dropping begins.

Um.. don't have the space and money for a 7.1 channel, $30k speaker system.

I'm happy with the DTS-ES 6.1 channel.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

For seriously.

Oh, I'm sure it looks just splendid on a 20-30ish" HD set, while using it's built-in speakers, but, like I said before, that's not real HT, is it?

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I know a lot of people with 50"+ HD sets, and they'll be able to tell too.

I know one person with a >50" set, and I don't exactly hang with the "Walmart crowd". It's not a huge deal because he has a Sony home theater system upconverting his AppleTV to 1080p..

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

and it still doesn't have HQ 7.1 audio, which will kill it for all but the "McDonald's and Wal-Mart" type crowd.

Yeah. I don't actually know anyone with 7.1... Maybe the people I know with a movie theater in their basement and a multi-thousand DVD changer do, but they seem perfectly fine with DVD's on their 1080p projector...

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I'm sure your streaming HD will be "fine" on a small display with a pair of speakers, but that's not HT, is it?

I've done CSI over XBox Live on my friend's (who incidentally is the same only person I know with a >50" set) 57" 1080p Plasma, and it looked great and sounded wonderful on his 5.1. And he definitely is your above-average consumer.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Um.. don't have the space and money for a 7.1 channel, $30k speaker system.

I'm happy with the DTS-ES 6.1 channel.

It's not that expensive, for a few grand you can enjoy full 7.1 and even have it professionally installed to take advantage of it. Won't take up more room than your present setup either. I'm just a hobbyist, and spend more than I should.

However, you don't even get DTS-ES 6.1 with the streaming option, and won't for a very long time.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's not that expensive, for a few grand...

: chokes on his sandwich :

Your average consumer won't spend more than $2000 for a TV... You're saying they'll spend $2000 or more on a sound system?

Heck. I don't have 5.1, not because I can't afford it... but because I don't have room for it, and I don't have my own house and I can't really be annoying the neighbors.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

However, you don't even get DTS-ES 6.1 with the streaming option, and won't for a very long time.

I'm sure your average consumer will be all choked up when they find that out...

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

I know one person with a >50" set, and I don't exactly hang with the "Walmart crowd". It's not a huge deal because he has a Sony home theater system upconverting his AppleTV to 1080p..

That's really odd, and I doubt it's the norm. 50"+ sets, now that they're reaching the $1000 mark, are getting very common.

Yeah. I don't actually know anyone with 7.1... Maybe the people I know with a movie theater in their basement and a multi-thousand DVD changer do, but they seem perfectly fine with DVD's on their 1080p projector...

7.1 is moving into the new standard, especially since 7.1 receivers are now below $500. Also, since they have a decent setup, if your friends aren't jumping into HD disc content they're wasting their HD dollars.

I've done CSI over XBox Live on my friend's (who incidentally is the same only person I know with a >50" set) 57" 1080p Plasma, and it looked great and sounded wonderful on his 5.1. And he definitely is your above-average consumer.

Compared to HD disc setups, it wouldn't look or sound "wonderful". However, that's a TV show. Have them play the same movie on Xbox Live and BD (or even HD-DVD), then see how it goes.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

: chokes on his sandwich :

Your average consumer won't spend more than $2000 for a TV... You're saying they'll spend $2000 or more on a sound system?

Heck. I don't have 5.1, not because I can't afford it... but because I don't have room for it, and I don't have my own house and I can't really be annoying the neighbors.

I'm sure your average consumer will be all choked up when they find that out...

Choke on this, they should. Your option is clearly inferior to all except the people who are watching on tiny displays and 2 speakers.

That's not HT, is it?

People who watch movies on their computer monitors w/o surround setups aren't who HD disc systems are aimed at. I'm sure you guys will be just fine with your streaming stuff.

Edit: I can go down to Best Buy or Circuit City and watch average consumers wheeling out big TVs and HT systems all day, it's a constant stream. Surely all those people aren't part of some "elite HT club". Plus, they have some type of HD disc player in the cart too.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's really odd, and I doubt it's the norm. 50"+ sets, now that they're reaching the $1000 mark, are getting very common.

Um no. 40" is just starting to get to the $1000 mark. If you're lucky, you might be able to pick up a low quality HD monitor at 46" for $1000.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

7.1 is moving into the new standard, especially since 7.1 receivers are now below $500. Also, since they have a decent setup, if your friends aren't jumping into HD disc content they're wasting their HD dollars.

Seriously? Most people I know just managed to get onto 2.1... much less 5.1... I would agree that most prosumers have 5.1... but 7.1?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Compared to HD disc setups, it wouldn't look or sound "wonderful". However, that's a TV show. Have them play the same movie on Xbox Live and BD (or even HD-DVD), then see how it goes.

I do play movies on XBox Live. I don't have a 5.1 system, but they look just fine and I have a 1080p TV.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Choke on this, they should. Your option is clearly inferior to all except the people who are watching on tiny displays and 2 speakers.

Um, 720p and 1080p are nearly indistinguishable up until 40"... Even then it takes quite a bit for 720p to start looking bad. So again... I don't know what your definition of "tiny display" is.

I wasn't aware 5.1 from digital files only sounded good on stereo speakers.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's really odd, and I doubt it's the norm. 50"+ sets, now that they're reaching the $1000 mark, are getting very common.

Um no. 40" is just starting to get to the $1000 mark. If you're lucky, you might be able to pick up a low quality HD monitor at 46" for $1000.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

7.1 is moving into the new standard, especially since 7.1 receivers are now below $500. Also, since they have a decent setup, if your friends aren't jumping into HD disc content they're wasting their HD dollars.

Seriously? Most people I know just managed to get onto 2.1... much less 5.1... I would agree that most prosumers have 5.1... but 7.1?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Compared to HD disc setups, it wouldn't look or sound "wonderful". However, that's a TV show. Have them play the same movie on Xbox Live and BD (or even HD-DVD), then see how it goes.

I do play movies on XBox Live. I don't have a 5.1 system, but they look just fine and I have a 1080p TV.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

That's not HT, is it?

No, you're talking about theatre. We're talking about home theatre, you know, the sort of setups average people have in their homes. 180 inch projection takes you far out of the realm of home theater.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

People who watch movies on their computer monitors w/o surround setups aren't who HD disc systems are aimed at. I'm sure you guys will be just fine with your streaming stuff.

Computer monitors? I don't think anyone said anything about computer monitors...

[Mrjinglesusa]

Originally Posted by goMac 

No, you're talking about theatre. We're talking about home theatre, you know, the sort of setups average people have in their homes. 180 inch projection takes you far out of the realm of home theater.

BS. Go browse through the AVS forums. 180" projection systems are TRUE home theatres. That's what "home theatre" means, a THEATRE in your HOME. A 50" display with a 5.1 surround sound system, while nice, is what many consider a budget home theatre. Since I don't have the room right now, I can't go the projection route so my 46" 1080p display will have to do - but I don't consider that a "home theatre".

[hyteckit]

I would like to know what sound system and TV people have on this forum.

I have a DTS-ES 6.1 receiver, Panasonic SA-HE100. 42" Westinghouse LCD HDTV monitor.

Don't have surround speakers set up. Just 2.1 now. The place I rent doesn't really allow for 5.1 channel sound system. Might need some speaker arms for the ceiling.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Um no. 40" is just starting to get to the $1000 mark. If you're lucky, you might be able to pick up a low quality HD monitor at 46" for $1000.

Panasonic - 56" 1080p Rear-Projection LCD HDTV - PT-56LCZ70

and there are deals like that every day.

Seriously? Most people I know just managed to get onto 2.1... much less 5.1... I would agree that most prosumers have 5.1... but 7.1?

It's the new coming standard and it's only getting cheaper. Again, this is HT, 5.1 is just the starting point.

I do play movies on XBox Live. I don't have a 5.1 system, but they look just fine and I have a 1080p TV.

"Just fine", but on a cheap 56" HD set you can tell the difference.

Um, 720p and 1080p are nearly indistinguishable up until 40"... Even then it takes quite a bit for 720p to start looking bad. So again... I don't know what your definition of "tiny display" is.

42" is the starting size for HT. We are actually trying to mimic a theater here, that's the whole point? Ain't it?

I wasn't aware 5.1 from digital files only sounded good on stereo speakers.

Not as good as the sound from BD, not even close.

No, you're talking about theatre. We're talking about home theatre, you know, the sort of setups average people have in their homes. 180 inch projection takes you far out of the realm of home theater.

Even with a smaller set you can tell quite a difference, like that inexpensive 56" I pointed at above. 42" is the starting point for HT, along with 5.1 sound, your solution falls short in this. We are actually trying to mimic a theater here, that's the whole point? Ain't it?

Computer monitors? I don't think anyone said anything about computer monitors...

Sounds like your set isn't much bigger than a PC monitor, so I would guess it fits more into that area. What is it, 32"? That's great for cable HD TV and casual solo viewing, but it's not HT.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

BS. Go browse through the AVS forums...

Let's just stop there and look for a place populated with normal consumers instead.

Normal consumers wouldn't even have space for 180" of screen space, even if they could afford it. Most homes don't even have a flat wall that could fit a screen that size.

Again, when you look at a 180" screen, you're looking at an actual full blown theater.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

BS. Go browse through the AVS forums. 180" projection systems are TRUE home theatres. That's what "home theatre" means, a THEATRE in your HOME. A 50" display with a 5.1 surround sound system, while nice, is what many consider a budget home theatre. Since I don't have the room right now, I can't go the projection route so my 46" 1080p display will have to do - but I don't consider that a "home theatre".

Oh pish-posh, 46" is great. As long as you're throwing down 5.1 you have a real HT.


Now, I'm getting yelled at to come watch 3:10 to Yuma, I'll have to pick up on this talk later.

[starman]

You know, goMac, you throw all these goddamn numbers around like you have the pulse of the f'n country at your fingertips.

WHERE DO YOU GET THESE MAGIC NUMBERS FROM?

Show links.

EDIT: You seem to say that people aren't in touch with the "average consumer". Well, what IS the "average consumer"? To you, there's the AC with HD, the AC without AC, the AC with 5.1, the AC without 5.1. You're making my head spin with all these little niche AC classes you're pulling out of your head. You seem to use "AC" as some way of arguing with others.

Also, you don't have 5.1 and you're in this thread? Seriously, get back in the kiddie pool.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Panasonic - 56" 1080p Rear-Projection LCD HDTV - PT-56LCZ70

You're recommending a DLP tv and you're complaining about compression?

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

It's the new coming standard and it's only getting cheaper. Again, this is HT, 5.1 is just the starting point.

You are insanely out of touch with the average consumer...

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

"Just fine", but on a cheap 56" HD set you can tell the difference.

A cheap 56" can hardly get a respectable black level, and you're telling me the user is going to notice compression? I find it hard to believe someone is going to buy a $1000 DLP and then splurge on a 7.1 surround system btw...

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

42" is the starting size for HT. We are actually trying to mimic a theater here, that's the whole point? Ain't it?

I think mid 30's is the size for home theater to start at... but again... you don't seem to understand the difference between home theater and making an actual theater. The reason home theater is different than theater is because home theaters are typically much smaller...

Regardless, whether or not an 180" projection screen is home theater, a large majority consumers are way out of reach of these systems.

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Not as good as the sound from BD, not even close.

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