[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

It's quite obvious in the first blu-ray picture, the blacks are way too dark and you can't even make out the details of the trees. Just black blobs.

Which AppleTV image is having the moiré pattern problem you are talking about? Moiré pattern can be create by your monitor or by the camera use to take the shot.

I beg to differ, the AppleTV image is washed out, maybe it has something to do with the way the source was compressed.

The moiré pattern in the first AppleTV image, it's pretty obvious and doesn't show on the Blu-ray, HD-TV, or DVD samples in that set.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

WTH is your problem? There were some questions (in this thread even) on whether or not HD rentals on the AppleTV would be feasible with current broadband speeds. The answer seems to be that it is. That's all that was brought up.

No one was talking about magic. No one was talking about streaming vs. downloading. No one was talking about commercial success. Well I take that back - no one else was. You were.

BUZZ! Wrong. The issue was 1080p STREAMING, not 720p DOWNLOADING.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

BUZZ! Wrong. The issue was 1080p STREAMING, not 720p DOWNLOADING.

So we were discussing 1080p streaming to our AppleTVs? The ones that only play 720p video?

Great, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

So we were discussing 1080p streaming to our AppleTVs? The ones that only play 720p video?

Great, that makes sense. Thanks for clearing it up.

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

The issue was whether or not 1080p STREAMING from ANY kind of service, not AppleTV.

I don't think one person said that 720p DOWNLOADS would be a problem. It's a simple FILE. You're not watching it in real time. You COULD start watching it before it's done, but like when you watch a 1080p TRAILER from Apple.com, certain bandwidth issues can prevent you from watching it in real time as it's coming down.

EDIT: Actually, there is a 1080 podcast that I watch regularly: Tekzilla. I have to download it because watching it live is impossible. My bandwidth is fast, but it could be that their servers get hammered. The point is, it's not ready for prime time.

THAT'S THE PROBLEM. Download a 1080p trailer from Apple.com and see if it keeps up at different times of the day. THAT was the crux of the issue, not downloading in 720p.

Jesus Christ.....

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

I beg to differ, the AppleTV image is washed out, maybe it has something to do with the way the source was compressed.

The moiré pattern in the first AppleTV image, it's pretty obvious and doesn't show on the Blu-ray, HD-TV, or DVD samples in that set.

I beg to differ. The blacks are way too dark, with no details in the trees in the Blu-ray version. The best calibrated version seems to be the DVD version. The color temp, saturation, brightness, contrast looks the best for the DVD version.

Why do you keep insisting that moiré pattern is a problem with the AppleTV content? It could have come from multiple of reasons. It could even be from compressing the image to a jpg file. The reviewer didn't seem to have commented on it. If there was a moiré pattern problem with the AppleTV content, I'm sure the reviewer would notice on his Sony 40" Bravia HDTV.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

I beg to differ. The blacks are way too dark, with no details in the trees in the Blu-ray version. The best calibrated version seems to be the DVD version. The color temp, saturation, brightness, contrast looks the best for the DVD version.

Ok, whatever. The BD version looks more natural, especially compared to the AppleTV. However, I suppose this is just going to split down party lines, again, as usual, forever.

Why do you keep insisting that moiré pattern is a problem with the AppleTV content? It could have come from multiple of reasons. It could even be from compressing the image to a jpg file. The reviewer didn't seem to have commented on it. If there was a moiré pattern problem with the AppleTV content, I'm sure the reviewer would notice on his Sony 40" Bravia HDTV.

Because it's there, it's obvious, and it's not in the other examples? The guy isn't mentioning a lot of things wrong with the AppleTV images; moiré, low detail, and poor color.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

The issue was whether or not 1080p STREAMING from ANY kind of service, not AppleTV.

Actually it wasn't the issue. You invented that issue when we were talking about AppleTV rentals. Don't believe me, read below:

Originally Posted by goMac 

People are having great success with the HD movie rentals on the US infrastructure today. Yes, it'll be great when we have more bandwidth for higher quality downloads, but as it stands internet speeds today are more than adequate.

The existence of XBox Live and AppleTV is enough to show that U.S. broadband is ready.

Originally Posted by starman 

Wrong.

Xbox Live and Apple TV both do 720p downloads, not 1080p streaming. Big difference.

Originally Posted by starman 

I don't even KNOW anyone doing HD rentals. How can there be "great success"?

Christ, goMac, where do you pull this crap out of?

Again, it had nothing to do with streaming or whether or not it was a commercial success - you pulled those issues out of thin air.

[starman]

No, I'm talking about topics on this thread from a few DAYS BACK. Not today. Sorry, please try again.

[jokell82]

Originally Posted by starman 

No, I'm talking about topics on this thread from a few DAYS BACK. Not today. Sorry, please try again.

Well you quoted posts from today. You shouldn't do that if you mean to respond to others. It could cause people to misunderstand what you're talking about.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by Shaddim 

Ok, whatever. The BD version looks more natural, especially compared to the AppleTV. However, I suppose this is just going to split down party lines, again, as usual, forever.



Because it's there, it's obvious, and it's not in the other examples? The guy isn't mentioning a lot of things wrong with the AppleTV images; moiré, low detail, and poor color.

Have you ever calibrated your TV? Seems to me that his TV is calibrated for DVD player. The blu-ray version is too dark, the AppleTV is too green, and the HD cable just looks bad.

I don't see anything wrong with the AppleTV other then its green tint.

[jokell82]

You're also assuming the guy knows what he's doing with his camera. Most people don't.

[Shaddim]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Have you ever calibrated your TV? Seems to me that his TV is calibrated for DVD player. The blu-ray version is too dark, the AppleTV is too green, and the HD cable just looks bad.

I don't see anything wrong with the AppleTV other then its green tint.

Yes, I had my TVs and projector ISF calibrated. I'd really like to see larger examples, it's not just the color that's suspect on many of those AppleTV images.

[hyteckit]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

You're also assuming the guy knows what he's doing with his camera. Most people don't.

Shaddim is just being silly. He somehow thinks a photo taken with a camera somehow accurately reflect what it actually looks like in person. He doesn't realize moiré patterns can be created by the camera and during jpg compression.

[starman]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Well you quoted posts from today. You shouldn't do that if you mean to respond to others. It could cause people to misunderstand what you're talking about.

It's still a continuation of goMac's assertion that today's broadband is ready for internet HD rentals. Sure, it works if you want to wait for the download to finish (to be sure it's done). However, he was bitching about how HD downloads are going to knock Blu-Ray out completely which is what I was arguing against. Today's broadband market is NOT yet ready for a direct competitor to Blu-Ray's 1080p in streaming. For downloading, you can do anything, right? You can download anything so long as you wait long enough for it. Who can argue that? But if you want instant 1080p, it's not going to happen for a while. We're just getting 1080i now over Comcast digital cable (read: not the 'net).

And again, there's still a place for optical.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Electronista | Toshiba releases new HD DVD firmware

Gee I hope those HD owners all have it hooked up to an ethernet port as those new features and bug fixes sound pretty damn important.

Shame on them for shipping such an "incomplete" player. At least the spec was finalized though

[goMac]

Originally Posted by starman 

Sure, it works if you want to wait for the download to finish (to be sure it's done).

Huh? Wait for the download to finish to be sure it's done? Given a half hour buffer on a two hour movie, I've been able to play it through with plenty of buffer to spare. People with AppleTV are reporting far shorter buffer times.

It sounds like you're inventing problems for the sake of argument.

Originally Posted by starman 

However, he was bitching about how HD downloads are going to knock Blu-Ray out completely which is what I was arguing against.

No, that wasn't what I was arguing. Do you have reading issues? I clearly said pros will probably stick with Bluray.

Originally Posted by starman 

Today's broadband market is NOT yet ready for a direct competitor to Blu-Ray's 1080p in streaming. For downloading, you can do anything, right? You can download anything so long as you wait long enough for it. Who can argue that? But if you want instant 1080p, it's not going to happen for a while. We're just getting 1080i now over Comcast digital cable (read: not the 'net).

Interesting how you frame your argument entirely in 1080p-land.

Originally Posted by starman 

And again, there's still a place for optical.

And I haven't debated against that. I just think the market at large will prefer digital downloads over Bluray because they are far less picky than... well.... you.