[goMac]

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Even Windows XP supports the playback of HDDVD and Bluray. It's not a problem for MacOS X 10.5 to support HDDVD and Bluray.

Yes because:
• Windows is closed source.
• Microsoft licensed an HDCP key from the HDCP group.
• Microsoft added HDCP support in Windows SP2.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Three layers need to support HDCP in order for HDDVD or bluray to work. The software application, the video card, and the display. If all 3 have HDCP support then HDDVD or Bluray should play fine.

No, HDCP requires kernel support.

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

Problem right now is that there is no software on Mac OSX to play HDDVD or Bluray, and most video cards on the Mac are not HDCP compliant.

Any Radeon 2X00, or GeForce 7X00 series GPU will do HDCP, at the very least. My Mac Pro shipped with an HDCP card. The video card is not the problem. In fact, people with Mac's with HDCP cards and 3rd party HDCP displays like Dell displays have been playing Blurays just fine under Windows.

Actually do some research. This has been discussed at length on the Linux side of things.

HDCP Linux kernel - Google Search

Originally Posted by hyteckit 

MacOS X is not the problem here.

Again, do research on this. A 30 second search on Google would return that HDCP requires kernel level support.

[goMac]

Here is a thread on AVS forum on the lack of Bluray on Mac OS X, and again, the lack of HDCP at the OS level is blamed.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=980484

(In addition, they're actually more negative on HDCP being adopted, saying it would require rewrites of QuickTime and Quartz.)

[Brien]

Originally Posted by goMac 

Yep, this certainly would have been the best way to do things. I'm not entirely clear on why this isn't what happened when the two camps talked about merging. It seems like it would be a win for everybody.

IIRC, Toshiba and Sony were in talks, but they fell apart when Toshiba started demanding a majority of the royalties and the BDA told them off.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by jokell82 

Hilarious. You have absolutely no idea what you're talking about. The technical ability to add the playback is different from what we're talking about. We're talking about problems with the design of the OS that precludes the addition of HD playback, and the fact that it can't be added without a drastic change to Apple's software philosophy.

It's a riot that you can be so confident about something you know nothing about.

No, I get what you're saying. But this is not the Linux community fretting over how to deal with this problem. This is Apple--rapidly becoming THE technology company to watch for, well, anything. My confidence is in them being able to adapt to Blu-Ray winning the format war. If they have to rework the kernel and QT, then I think that's something they're capable of doing. Their commitment to being a leader in the computer industry will outweigh the need to keep the kernel 100% open.

And there's nothing hilarious about it, stop being an ass.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by goMac 

No, what you're missing is that it's a political issue, not an engineering issue. Yes, there is no technical reason why Apple couldn't add a secure path to the kernel for HDCP, but there are political reasons why they can't.

The politics of open source will not trump Blu-Ray playback on future Macs.

That's my prediction.

[Helmling]

Originally Posted by climber 

I never suggested it was simple. But it is necessary if Blu-ray becomes the dominant HD format that Toshiba hope for with it's format.

THAT is something I'd argue won't happen. For all that he's been wrong about, goMac is right that digital downloads are growing in importance. Blu-Ray may have won the war, but the value of the prize has diminished in value. Blu-Ray won't have the same life-span that DVD did. In fact, they'll probably both fade out around the same time...I'll give 'em 5 years before the tide turns against all storage media in favor of the net.

[climber]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

THAT is something I'd argue won't happen. For all that he's been wrong about, goMac is right that digital downloads are growing in importance. Blu-Ray may have won the war, but the value of the prize has diminished in value. Blu-Ray won't have the same life-span that DVD did. In fact, they'll probably both fade out around the same time...I'll give 'em 5 years before the tide turns against all storage media in favor of the net.

I said dominant HD format. If they are not already there then it will not be long. I think the only competition is HD pay per view, but that is typically not on demand. Although with My Direct TV HD DVR, recording pay per view is probably faster than an Apple TV given the multiple start times. I can also keep the movie a lot longer than 24hrs.

Downloads have yet to demonstrate a practical method for someone who wants purchase a movie. DVD's and now Bl-ray are much better at that.

[Mrjinglesusa]

For those interested in picking up some HD-DVDs, Hollywood Video is selling off their stock. YMMV, but most people at AVS Forum have been getting 2 for $20 or 3 for $20 with a BOGO coupon in a pamphlet in the stores. From what I understand, they don't come with the red HD-DVD cases.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by Mrjinglesusa 

For those interested in picking up some HD-DVDs, Hollywood Video is selling off their stock. YMMV, but most people at AVS Forum have been getting 2 for $20 or 3 for $20 with a BOGO coupon in a pamphlet in the stores. From what I understand, they don't come with the red HD-DVD cases.

So these are rental discs? If so, I'm not interested. Thanks anyway for the heads up though.

In the meantime I've just ordered The Bourne Identity and Knocked Up (which I've never seen) from DVD Crave. Came to just over CAD$22 new, including shipping from Australia.

[ghporter]

I've never had problems with "pre-viewed" rental DVDs, but I am picky about them (and usually I'm interested in the ones the stores sell off because they didn't move much, which makes it easier to be picky). My problem is that there just aren't a lot of titles that a) I want and b) would be significantly better in HD format than in DVD format. For example, Amazon has two Bob Hope collections available on HD-DVD...how much better can a great B&W transfer of a 1940s film look in HD than in normal DVD? B&W transfers generally look a LOT cleaner than color transfers in everything I've ever seen (watch Casablanca some time...), so I'm figuring that there's a lot less compression when you're dealing with gray levels than with color.

What I want to find is movies that demand HD, like Spartacus, How The West was Won, and so on. I'm teetering about 2001, but the HD version doesn't have ANYTHING on it but the HD version of the movie (and maybe one trailer), and I already have a great version on DVD.

I think this sort of thing highlights my whole issue with HD-anything. Would the movies I like benefit in any way from being recorded in a HD format? I may change my attitude once I get a really big screen monitor (I actually can see plenty of artifacting in my DirecTV picture on my 32" CRT TV right now).

[vmarks]

ghporter, your DirecTV box is not an HD box if it's connected to a 32" CRT (it's an easy bet to make.)

I would be interested in knowing if you get a larger screen like a 42" LCD (sub $1000 now) and an HD DirecTV box to hear if you still see the artifacts and if you experience them on the HD channels, not just the SD content that's scaled up.

I would see Fistful of Dollars, For a Few Dollars More, and High Plains Drifter (which I always felt belonged as the third film rather than the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly) in HD.

I'd want them with restored colors, remastered soundtrack, and a fresh film transfer to HD. A fresh film transfer to HD from a restored film can really bring out the best in a movie.

[ghporter]

No, it's very much SD. But if I can see artifacting on regular programs with an SD source displayed on an SD screen, that probably means that I'm noticing a lot more of such noise than I'm happy with.

I'm thinking strongly of changing my DirecTV package at the moment anyway. I have an obsolete programming package at the moment, and I'm thinking of at least upgrading that. HD is only a few dollars more a month, but I'm nowhere near getting an LCD monitor of any size.

The "Spaghetti Westerns" are a great example of what kinds of films would benefit from HD-those vistas, the scale of the settings, all that sort of thing. The box set I was referring to above is the Star Trek Original Series remastered Season 1. They did a great job of cleaning up the picture and sound, and it looks so much better than the original transfers do on standard DVD. Higher standards for transfers should be expected when you're dealing with an expected high definition output. Oh, and this is with COMPOSITE video from the HD-DVD player too. Today I get component cables (and an optical audio cable) and I expect it to look even better.

[aristotles]

I'm not interested in watching encrypted Blu-ray on my computer. What I am interested in is Apple adding support for Blu-ray authoring. As long as I can playback my authored discs to test for errors, I'm happy.

[Chongo]

Amazon.co.uk: The Godfather Trilogy [HD DVD] [1972]: DVD: Marlon Brando,Richard Conte,Robert De Niro,John Cazale,Marianna Hill,Lee Strasberg,Andy Garcia,Eli Wallach,Bridget Fonda,George Hamilton,Joe Mantegna,James Caan,Richard Castellano,Robert Duval

[goMac]

Originally Posted by Helmling 

The politics of open source will not trump Blu-Ray playback on future Macs.

That's my prediction.

Yeah, that doesn't make any sense...

The entire point of an HDCP key is that it's a secret. You can't really keep a secret in an open source system.

If Apple allows HDCP keys to becomes public, all of HDCP across the board becomes insecure.

So either Apple has to start close sourcing things, or the HDCP group has to be willing to let HDCP fall apart.

[TETENAL]

A key isn't source code. You can have open source encryption code and keep the key secret. Even under the restrictive GPL (which Apple's kernel isn't under even).

[goMac]

Originally Posted by TETENAL 

A key isn't source code. You can have open source encryption code and keep the key secret. Even under the restrictive GPL (which Apple's kernel isn't under even).

True, but open source code makes it more trivial to narrow down where the key is. If you can see the source that loads the key, it makes it easier to capture the key.

Not that I don't think the whole thing is stupid. Even under closed source systems you can usually track down the key. It's happened to PowerDVD already on the Windows side with the HD-DVD and Bluray keys. But I don't think the HDCP group wants to make it that easy.