[Eug]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Ok, so going by your logic, a DVD structure burned with a CD Writer to a CD-R is a DVD? Some consumer DVD players are able to playback these strange beasts as well.

Ok, you got me on requiring a blu-ray burner for blueray content but you cannot call a DVD with HD-DVD content an HD-DVD. If you insist on this, then a CD-R with DVD content is a DVD.

Incorrect.

HD DVD content burned to DVD media is officially HD DVD. The HD DVD specification was designed with this "3X DVD" disc in mind, specifically to address the issue of cost. All HD DVD players must be able to play these discs, because it is a mandatory part of the HD DVD specification.

In contrast, DVD content burned to CD is not DVD, because it not part of the DVD specification. DVD players do not have to be able to play DVD content burned to CD, and hence, most can't.

---

In other news... It seems the independent European studios prefer HD DVD, according to the Financial Times:

A number of European independent film studios and DVD production companies are opting for Toshiba's HD-DVD format over the rival Sony technology, thanks to a strong support programme by the HD-DVD camp and concerns over the price of Blu-Ray technology.

Early indications from the US are that Sony's Blu-Ray discs are outselling HD-DVDs by as much as two to one. However, in Europe, HD-DVD still appears to have the upper hand.

About 35 European films are available on the HD-DVD format, compared with less than 10 for Blu-Ray. The larger European studios such as Studio Canal and Pathé in France, Filmax and DeAPlaneta in Spain, and Imagion and Nixbu in Germany have all announced plans to use the HD-DVD technology.

Although most commentators agree that the deciding battles in the format war will be fought in Hollywood, analysts such as Richard Cooper at Screen Digest say the importance of European independent studios should not be underestimated. European independent films account for only 30 per cent of the market in the UK, but 50 per cent in France, 40 per cent in Germany and 35 to 40 per cent in Spain.

David Walstra, vice-chairman of the Europe's Blu-Ray Disc Association, admits Sony has concentrated its efforts on the US, and has felt it too early to work with European studios.

The cost of production is also an issue. Normal DVD production lines can be upgraded to produce HD-DVDs, whereas for Blu-Ray, companies need to buy completely new equipment.

"A HD-DVD replication line costs about €800,000 ($1m) and you can make 40,000 discs a day on it. A Blu-Ray replication line costs €1.7m or €1.8m and you can make 10,000 to 15,000 discs a day," says Laurent Villaume, chief executive of Qol, a French DVD replication company. "The risk is just not the same."

[BasketofPuppies]

You know, I thought the PS3, 360 or Wii thread was sad...

This thread is additional proof that nerds get passionate over stupid things. Buy yourselves upconverting DVD players--make sure they scale to the native resolutions of your television sets--and stop arguing over whether HD-DVD or Blu-ray is better and which one is winning.

Because HD-DVD and Blu-ray are short-lived. Reliable, high-quality digital distribution is the future, and it will be mainstream sooner than you think.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

You know, I thought the PS3, 360 or Wii thread was sad...

This thread is additional proof that nerds get passionate over stupid things. Buy yourselves upconverting DVD players--make sure they scale to the native resolutions of your television sets--and stop arguing over whether HD-DVD or Blu-ray is better and which one is winning.

Because HD-DVD and Blu-ray are short-lived. Reliable, high-quality digital distribution is the future, and it will be mainstream sooner than you think.

Upconverting DVD players are not good enough. Anyways, some Blu-ray players and all HD DVD players (so far) upconvert DVDs already.

I don't want to wait 10 years for viable high quality 1080p24 video distribution. I don't even want to wait 5 years. I don't like downloaded content anyway. In this era of iTunes, I still buy CDs.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

Buy yourselves upconverting DVD players--make sure they scale to the native resolutions of your television sets

I have had one for years and it doesn't come anywhere close to the quality of real 720p/1080i.

[analogue SPRINKLES]

Originally Posted by Eug 

A number of European independent film studios and DVD production companies are opting for Toshiba's HD-DVD format over the rival Sony technology, thanks to a strong support programme by the HD-DVD camp and concerns over the price of Blu-Ray technology.

Independent European film studios?! Yikes.

Sony just lost this war

[Eug]

Although most commentators agree that the deciding battles in the format war will be fought in Hollywood, analysts such as Richard Cooper at Screen Digest say the importance of European independent studios should not be underestimated. European independent films account for only 30 per cent of the market in the UK, but 50 per cent in France, 40 per cent in Germany and 35 to 40 per cent in Spain.

[exca1ibur]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

Reliable, high-quality digital distribution is the future, and it will be mainstream sooner than you think.

I HIGHLY doubt that. A hard drive is hardly reliable as optical media. I know I won't be using one as long term storage. Hard copies will always be an option. Even if digital works you still will need a storage medium to burn your own content to, which would have to be a 100% option for that model.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Upconverting DVD players are not good enough. Anyways, some Blu-ray players and all HD DVD players (so far) upconvert DVDs already.

I don't want to wait 10 years for viable high quality 1080p24 video distribution. I don't even want to wait 5 years. I don't like downloaded content anyway. In this era of iTunes, I still buy CDs.

I'm aware that HD-DVD and Blu-ray look better than upconverted DVD, and buying an HD-DVD or Blu-ray player is effectively killing two birds with one stone, but buying HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs is short-sighted.

What do you do with your HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs ten years from now when your player breaks?

Your DVDs are safe. The long popularity of the format guarantees you will be able to buy a DVD player decades after DVD-Video becomes irrelevant--my grandmother got a new record player last year--but your high definition discs are coasters, and the content on them has to be re-purchased in pure-digital format, because digital distribution prematurely killed both HD disc formats (and they never caught on beyond AV enthusiasts anyway), making it impossible to find a new HD-DVD or Blu-ray player.

And for those of you who don't think digital distribution will completely replace physical discs, Bill Gates has said that software and media for the next Xbox will be distributed digitally-only. That's gonna kick some things off, assuming there isn't already momentum by then. (Microsoft's endorsement of HD-DVD over Blu-ray is token.)

[Eug]

Originally Posted by exca1ibur 

I HIGHLY doubt that. A hard drive is hardly reliable as optical media. I know I won't be using one as long term storage. Hard copies will always be an option. Even if digital works you still will need a storage medium to burn your own content to, which would have to be a 100% option for that model.

Indeed, I regularly back up to a secondary hard disc, and back up my important data periodically to DVD.

DVD is especially suited for for archival storage. I simply put my burned DVDs in a disc album and stick it in the cupboard, and then forget about it.

For the really, really important stuff I store another copy of it off-site. (ie. A copy of my work stuff is at home, and a copy of my home stuff is at work.) Not bad for less than $0.50 per disc.

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies

What do you do with your HD-DVD or Blu-ray discs ten years from now when your player breaks?

Buy a new one.

In the meantime I can enjoy them in their full HD glory.

[BasketofPuppies]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Buy a new one.

I wonder how many people said that about their LaserDisc players when DVD started catching on.

[Eug]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

I wonder how many people said that about their LaserDisc players when DVD started catching on.

OMG! People buy new advanced products when new advanced products come out!

Seriously though, laserdisc was problematic right from the start. The discs were HUGE, and still often required you to flip the discs several times during a movie. Not to mention the fact the discs were horrendously expensive.

Both Blu-ray and HD DVD are more successful now in North America than laserdisc ever was, and Blu-ray and HD DVD are in their infancy.

[Dakar²]

I thought BasketofPuppies said only nerds posted in this thread. Yet it's posted several times already...

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by goMac 

The Sony CEO was standing right there. And in the same press release, Apple announced their commitment to HD-DVD also.

Official link with a quote? Concerning support for HD-DVD for consumers. Wasn't this in the context of demoing consumer products and iLife?

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by BasketofPuppies 

You know, I thought the PS3, 360 or Wii thread was sad...

This thread is additional proof that nerds get passionate over stupid things. Buy yourselves upconverting DVD players--make sure they scale to the native resolutions of your television sets--and stop arguing over whether HD-DVD or Blu-ray is better and which one is winning.

Because HD-DVD and Blu-ray are short-lived. Reliable, high-quality digital distribution is the future, and it will be mainstream sooner than you think.

Thanks Amazing Kreskin for that prediction about the future. Care to explain now those poor souls in the country to my south (USA) are going to be able to take advantage of this digital distribution without broadband access?

[aristotles]

Originally Posted by Eug 

Although most commentators agree that the deciding battles in the format war will be fought in Hollywood, analysts such as Richard Cooper at Screen Digest say the importance of European independent studios should not be underestimated. European independent films account for only 30 per cent of the market in the UK, but 50 per cent in France, 40 per cent in Germany and 35 to 40 per cent in Spain.

That is awesome for people living in those countries but what relevance is that to people living outside of Europe or even outside of those specific countries? Europe is not one homogeneous cultural entity. Films released in one country will not automatically appeal to audiences in other markets.

Quite frankly, I'm not at all surprised by the numbers for France given that the are quite xenophobic and protective of their "French" culture.

[goMac]

Originally Posted by aristotles 

Official link with a quote? Concerning support for HD-DVD for consumers. Wasn't this in the context of demoing consumer products and iLife?

The press release was already linked to on the last page, along with the quote of the press release in question.

The only time Steve Jobs has mentioned Bluray support was when the Sony CEO was on stage and he was talking to the Sony CEO. It was something along the lines of "We're looking forward to Bluray." Eug has the quote on the last page. Aside from that, Steve has never mentioned Bluray.