Welcome to the MacNN Forums.

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ by clicking the link above. You may have to register before you can post: click the register link above to proceed. To start viewing messages, select the forum that you want to visit from the selection below.

You are here: MacNN Forums > Community > MacNN Lounge > Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning?

View Poll Results: Which do you have? (Choose only ONE. Includes stand-alones and game consoles.)
Poll Options:
HD DVD 34 votes (17.09%)
Blu-ray 87 votes (43.72%)
Both 14 votes (7.04%)
Neither 70 votes (35.18%)
Multiple Choice Poll. Voters: 199. You may not vote on this poll
Blu-ray/HD DVD... Who is winning? (Page 3)
Thread Tools
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2006, 07:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Funny thing is the immediate titles I want like Miami Vice and BSG are universal on HD-DVD. Hopefully things will change though
I want Hero, which is Atlantis Alliance in Canada (HD DVD), and Sony in the US (Blu-ray), which probably means we won't get it on either format any time soon.

Mind you I already have 2 different DVDs of it.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2006, 07:36 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker View Post
I want Hero, which is Atlantis Alliance in Canada (HD DVD), and Sony in the US (Blu-ray), which probably means we won't get it on either format any time soon.

Mind you I already have 2 different DVDs of it.
Ya that's a cool movie, I'm gonna get it for sure as the colours are amazing.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: on the verge of insanity
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2006, 07:41 PM
 
So is House of Flying Daggers.
I like my water with hops, malt, hops, yeast, and hops.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2006, 08:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Rumor View Post
So is House of Flying Daggers.
I thought I would love it but I was so bored I shut it off after 40 minutes.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2006, 09:30 PM
 
I didn't like House of Flying Daggers that much either. I liked the dance scene, but the rest of the movie was just so-so IMO.

It's supposed to be pretty a bad transfer on Blu-ray too.

I'll start with a couple of good things. The Blu-ray has lovely colors that run deeper and sparkle better than any previous home video edition. Also, in direct comparison to the Sony DVD, the new disc has much less edge enhancement (though minor halos do still pop up in some places) and better detail in certain textures like clothing fabric, hair, or on-screen text such as the opening prologue. I've owned many copies of this movie from different parts of the world, and of them I'd have to admit that this is perhaps the best it's looked by some very moderate degree. That will do it for the good stuff.

Here's the problem: although this disc is an improvement over the comparable (mediocre) DVD, it's quite awful by High Definition standards. It looks essentially like the DVD should have looked, not like an HD disc should look. In fact, I'd go so far as to say this is the worst HD image I've ever seen. The picture is distractingly soft. As mentioned, certain textures like clothing look decent in close-up (by DVD standards, at least), but wide shots lose definition and the actors' faces look waxy if not outright blurry. It's true that if you check the same shots on the DVD, they're also soft on that disc, but the problem was less obvious on the lower-resolution medium and stands out in stark clarity here. There is no detail at all in things like skin pores or complexion as you'll see in the best High Definition sources. I'll concede that the movie may have a deliberately soft photographic style, but the disc goes too far and looks excessively filtered and compressed. The image is often dupey and flat, with no sense of depth. Compression noise and image shimmer are problematic in scenes with high levels of detail; for example, keep an eye on the beaded curtains in the background of wide shots inside the Peony Pavilion. Film grain is poorly compressed and looks noisy as hell, especially during the bamboo forest scene. To put it bluntly, this disc is a disaster.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Washington, DC
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 5, 2006, 09:40 PM
 
Just wait for the "Blu-Ray/HD DVD Collector's Extreme Director's Unlimited Cut" for most of the current movies coming out.

Arg... I'm not buying either format. I'll rent when/if I buy a system. In fact, I'm thinking of selling all my DVDs minus 3-4...
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2006, 03:56 PM
 
Someone else mentioned the whole fitting season on one disk advantage:

Blu-ray is pretty much a waste of time... - PS3 Fanboy

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: The Annals of MacNN History
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 6, 2006, 04:04 PM
 
People are going to have trouble getting over the mental hill of paying $100 for one disc.
     
Mac Elite
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Minnesota
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 08:45 AM
 
It is the player price that will determines who wins. Unless Blu-Ray gets some cheaper players, HD-DVD will win.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 11:04 AM
 
Originally Posted by alligator View Post
It is the player price that will determines who wins. Unless Blu-Ray gets some cheaper players, HD-DVD will win.
They are pretty close in price unless you want the first HD-DVD player which is dirt cheap but ****.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 01:44 PM
 
So we can close this thread now, because it appears HD-DVD has won:
Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD-DVD Wins - Talk Back - Digital Trends


All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 02:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
They are pretty close in price unless you want the first HD-DVD player which is dirt cheap but ****.
The second generation Toshiba HD-A2 HD DVD player is supposed to be pretty good.
It's out now, with a street price of US$399 ($499 MSRP), including 3 free HD DVDs.

     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 02:57 PM
 
[QUOTE=Eug Wanker;3232305]
Geez, you can pretty much get a 20 Gig PS3 for only a bit more and it obvious offers a ton more for the extra cost.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: "Working"
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 03:06 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
So we can close this thread now, because it appears HD-DVD has won:
Optical HD Battle May Be Over: HD-DVD Wins - Talk Back - Digital Trends

First paragraph of the article:
Nearly a year and a half ago I wrote a column saying that Blu-Ray wins or nothing does. This showcases the reality of doing predictions because while the analysis held up, events did not pan out as anticipated and by any current measure HD-DVD will end this year with a decisive win.
This is the part where I compare how long HD has been out and how long Blu-ray has been out and how it would be ridiculous to expect anything else. I'll be back in a couple years when I can get either drive at a reasonable price.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 03:11 PM
 
Originally Posted by Gossamer View Post
First paragraph of the article:


This is the part where I compare how long HD has been out and how long Blu-ray has been out and how it would be ridiculous to expect anything else. I'll be back in a couple years when I can get either drive at a reasonable price.
I know really. Blu-Ray has been out for less time than HD-DVD and for the bleeding edge crew with ONE player and some disks that weren't encoded properly. Now that the sony player has shipped and more importantly the PS3 the well encoded titles are rolling out and some beat HD-DVD in price and quality.

It will be this time next year before we can have a real idea on how well either is doing.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 03:12 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Geez, you can pretty much get a 20 Gig PS3 for only a bit more and it obvious offers a ton more for the extra cost.
Where, eBhey?

Anyways, it's becoming more and more clear that this format war isn't going to be won with consoles. Yes the consoles do matter, but it's the standalones that are going to be the primary players for most people.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 03:17 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker View Post
Where, eBhey?
If you like and are in a rush.

When the supplies are good though and people walk into stores and see "HD-DVD player and nothing" else sitting next to a "PS3 with lots of other stuff for cheaper than it costs to make" they might be swayed.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 03:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
If you like and are in a rush.

When the supplies are good though and people walk into stores and see "HD-DVD player and nothing" else sitting next to a "PS3 with lots of other stuff for cheaper than it costs to make" they might be swayed.
You mean the PS3 that plays Blu-ray at 480p when set to 720p?
You mean the PS3 that doesn't come with a remote?
You mean the PS3 that doesn't work with universal IR remotes?
You mean the PS3 that costs a minimum of $499, despite the above limitations?

Yeah, by all reports the PS3 has great image quality (at 1080), but Sony really screwed up its implementation for basic playback as a standalone, and its price tag certainly doesn't help its cause.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 03:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker View Post
You mean the PS3 that plays Blu-ray at 480p when set to 720p?
Funny. Mine is 720p set and it plays fine. As mentioned before it works fine you just have to make sure 1080i is also checked which it is unless you shut it off. Software bug that will be fixed.

You mean the PS3 that doesn't come with a remote?


Don't like it get the bluetooth one for $30. Many would argue that the PS3 controller is better than that dinosaur remote that comes with the HD-DVD player.

You mean the PS3 that doesn't work with universal IR remotes?
If you want to spend $400 for a player that does go nuts

You mean the PS3 that costs a minimum of $499, despite the above limitations?
The only point you got is the IR remote. Fine.

Here is your options again re-worded.

Option A: HD-DVD player $400.

Plays HD-DVD's and has an IR remote. Oh and 3 prong wall plug

That's it.

Option B: PS3 20 Gig $500

I'll just list the basic stuff:

20 gig hard drive to store video's, pictures and MP3's
Download movie trailers, game demos.
Send emails
Free game demos
Built in web browser on a high def TV.
USB ports for keyboards future video camera
Media card readers
Downloadable games
Location free TV

Tons of new stuff to be added over time with free software updates.

Oh and it has the largest game library in the world and plays disks from any PS system.

So for $100 more you get all that. But ya, that IR remote thing un-convinced me

Another option of course is to take the route you did with the 360 + add on drive which will cost you even more than the PS3.
( Last edited by Dark Helmet; Dec 7, 2006 at 04:21 PM. )

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 04:31 PM
 
You forget that the PS3 will not fit in a standard home theater rack space. Major downside for it, IMO.

Plus these things wont be next to each other in the stores. The PS3 will be with the video games, while the HD-DVD and BluRay players will be in the home theater departments. Guess which section the majority of people will be in when they're looking at options for their new HDTVs.

All glory to the hypnotoad.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 04:50 PM
 
Originally Posted by jokell82 View Post
You forget that the PS3 will not fit in a standard home theater rack space. Major downside for it, IMO.
It won't? Why not?

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:15 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Funny. Mine is 720p set and it plays fine. As mentioned before it works fine you just have to make sure 1080i is also checked which it is unless you shut it off. Software bug that will be fixed.

Don't like it get the bluetooth one for $30. Many would argue that the PS3 controller is better than that dinosaur remote that comes with the HD-DVD player.

If you want to spend $400 for a player that does go nuts

The only point you got is the IR remote. Fine.

Here is your options again re-worded.

Option A: HD-DVD player $400.

Plays HD-DVD's and has an IR remote. Oh and 3 prong wall plug

That's it.

Option B: PS3 20 Gig $500

I'll just list the basic stuff:

20 gig hard drive to store video's, pictures and MP3's
Download movie trailers, game demos.
Send emails
Free game demos
Built in web browser on a high def TV.
USB ports for keyboards future video camera
Media card readers
Downloadable games
Location free TV

Tons of new stuff to be added over time with free software updates.

Oh and it has the largest game library in the world and plays disks from any PS system.

So for $100 more you get all that. But ya, that IR remote thing un-convinced me

Another option of course is to take the route you did with the 360 + add on drive which will cost you even more than the PS3.
Spoken like a true gamer geek.

Unfortunately for Sony, it's becoming clear that gamers aren't representative of the general population. Basically, non-gamers think that the extra money spent is simply a waste of money, especially when the thing won't even work with existing remotes, and doesn't even come with one.

I hope you don't seriously think that non-gamers will appreciate this "remote":

     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
It won't? Why not?
As I've mentioned before, it doesn't stack.
8 Core 2.8 ghz Mac Pro/GF8800/2 23" Cinema Displays, 3.06 ghz Macbook Pro
Once you wanted revolution, now you're the institution, how's it feel to be the man?
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:28 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
As I've mentioned before, it doesn't stack.
That's what shelves are for.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:29 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker View Post
Spoken like a true gamer geek.
Ok let me reword it non-gamer style:

$400:
HD-DVD player
IR remote

OR

$500
Fastest and best Blu-Ray player on the market
20 gig hard drive to store video's, pictures and MP3's
Bluetooth controller love it or leave it
Rip your CD's to a media centre
Watch movie trailers
Send/recieve emails
Built in web browser on a high def TV.
USB ports for keyboards future video camera and conferencing
Media card readers for your digital camera
Back up your digital camera images
Location free TV

OR

$530
Everything included in the $500 plus a Bluetooth remote that doesn't need line of sight and works though walls. Play/pause your music, shut the system on off, adjust volume all without line of sight.

Do i still sound like a gamer or is the IR remote worth losing all the above over?


hope you don't seriously think that non-gamers will appreciate this "remote":
Maybe not. But anyone wanting HD-DVD or Blu-ray has something like this:

HDTV: $1500+
PS3: $500
Amp: $800+

Bluetooth remote: +$30 and that is where people walk over to the stand alone HD-DVD cuz $30 put them over the line and they rather save $100 and get an IR remote

Not to mention an IR adapter could come out any day for the PS3. Sales would surge overnight I am sure.
( Last edited by Dark Helmet; Dec 7, 2006 at 05:35 PM. )

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
As I've mentioned before, it doesn't stack.
You gonna put something on top of the Wii?

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Dedicated MacNNer
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:30 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
As I've mentioned before, it doesn't stack.
I'm curious what components you stack? Most of my components from receiver to dvd player say in the manuals not to stack another device on top if there will be less than a 1/2 inch gap between them due to overheating issues. My current setup has a shelf for each component.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:34 PM
 
Originally Posted by Calimus View Post
I'm curious what components you stack? Most of my components from receiver to dvd player say in the manuals not to stack another device on top if there will be less than a 1/2 inch gap between them due to overheating issues. My current setup has a shelf for each component.
He doesn't, he is grasping.

This is the dude with a 32" TV and a Wii and he thinks stacking a PS3 will make people not buy it.

Plus you can stack a Wii, you just put the damn thing on the top of all the other crap. Or is there a reason it needs to be in the middle with a 30 pound amp on top of it?

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 05:46 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
This is the dude with a 32" TV and a Wii and he thinks stacking a PS3 will make people not buy it.
It wasn't even my point, I was explaining someone else's point.
8 Core 2.8 ghz Mac Pro/GF8800/2 23" Cinema Displays, 3.06 ghz Macbook Pro
Once you wanted revolution, now you're the institution, how's it feel to be the man?
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 06:31 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
It wasn't even my point, I was explaining someone else's point.
Fine. Still doesn't make much sense though.

Just about every electronic product says DO NOT STACK on it! Show me one that doesn't.

Even so you can put the PS3 on the top of your other items if you need to stack.

The only real problem system was the Cube and slim PS2 as it was top loading so it wasn't easy or sometimes impossible to put on a shelf.

The Xbox, 360, and PS3 have no such problem. In fact the PS3 is the usable in 3 positions when the other are only in 2.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 06:40 PM
 
Originally Posted by Eug Wanker View Post
Well that thing is ugly... You can stack however...
I'm-a trying to wonder, wonder, wonder why you, wonder, wonder why you act so.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 06:47 PM
 
Originally Posted by fhoubi View Post
Well that thing is ugly... You can stack however...
"Do not place anything on top of this unit"

http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/tacpasse...D-XA1_om_e.pdf

But it does have an IR remote circa 1983

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 07:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
The Xbox, 360, and PS3 have no such problem. In fact the PS3 is the usable in 3 positions when the other are only in 2.
3 positions?
8 Core 2.8 ghz Mac Pro/GF8800/2 23" Cinema Displays, 3.06 ghz Macbook Pro
Once you wanted revolution, now you're the institution, how's it feel to be the man?
     
Senior User
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: The Netherlands
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 07:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
3 positions?
Horizontal, vertical, and out of sight.
I'm-a trying to wonder, wonder, wonder why you, wonder, wonder why you act so.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 08:02 PM
 
Originally Posted by goMac View Post
3 positions?
Vertical but with the side facing you. The buttons are still useable and viewable from that position as the above pictures shows.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Why do you care?
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 08:08 PM
 
Just ordered the HD-DVD add-on for my XBox 360. Also ordered Batman Begins on HD-DVD as my first HD movie. Can't wait....
2.3GHz i7 15" Retina Macbook Pro (Late 2013)
     
Professional Poster
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Southern California
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 7, 2006, 09:35 PM
 
I'll be grabbing the HD-DVD drive for the 360 and V for Vendetta when $$$ allows.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Dangling something in the water… of the Arabian Sea
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 12:28 AM
 
Personally, I think the A2 looks good. I mean if we're gonna be talking about looks, I think it looks way better than both the PS3 and the Xbox 360.

--------

Here are some video tests of the various players:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showt...&&#post8991978

PS3 Objective Measurements
I ran some objective tests on the PS3 today, my results are below. I have included Panasonic, Samsung and Toshiba results as well. I only looked at the HDMI to HDMI scenario.

I fed the output of the PS3 (and other players) into a DVDO VP50 and then into the Marantz VP11S1. I looked at both the 1080p and 1080i outputs.


HDMI Output Format
PS3
R'G'B'

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Y’CbCr 4:4:4

Toshiba HD-A1
Y’CbCr 4:2:2

Samsung BD-P1000
Y’CbCr 4:4:4

Pixel Cropping:
PS3
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Toshiba HD-A1
Left: 0
Top: 0
Right: 0
Bottom: 0
Comments: This is perfect behavior. You actually get all 1920x1080 pixels.

Samsung BD-P1000
Left: 8
Top: 2
Right: 1
Bottom: 0
Comments: As you can tell, the Samsung is not able to provide a true 1920x1080 active image. You are only getting 1911x1078 of real picture.

Dynamic Range – HDMI to HDMI
PS3
Above White – Fail – Clips
Below Black – Fail – Clips


Panasonic DMP-BD10
Above White – Fail – Clips
Below Black – Fail – Clips

Comments: The player has built-in picture controls. If you lower contrast down to -4 through -7, it will no longer clip. However, you are compressing the dynamic range. Steps are introduced, which show up as contouring. If you adjust brightness, you can make below black appear. If you do this, you are actually raising the black level of the player. I suspect this clipping may be caused by the bug in the Silicon Image 9030 HDMI transmitter. If they were to output Y’CbCr 4:2:2, it may fix the problem. I recommend you do not change the picture controls.

Toshiba HD-A1
Above White – Pass
Below Black – Pass

Samsung BD-P1000
Above White – Pass
Below Black – Pass

Luma Resolution
I looked at both horizontal and vertical resolution out to Nyquist. All four players were fine in this regard. There was no apparent roll-off.

Chroma Resolution
PS3
The horizontal Nyquist burst was rolled-off. It was not gone like the BD-10, but not as good as the Samsung and Toshiba.


Panasonic DMP-BD10
The horizontal Nyquist burst was pretty much gray. Something in the player must be filtering out this high resolution information. Vertical was fine.

Toshiba HD-A1
Both horizontal and vertical produced the full resolution out to Nyquist.

Samsung BD-P1000
There was a loss of vertical resolution at Nyquist. I suspect this is caused by the filtering in the Cortez (Genesis/Faroudja) chip.

Chroma Bug
PS3
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

Comments: The upsampling it not high quality, though it is correct. You can see some steps in the chroma. The BD-10 looked better, when it did not have CUE.

Panasonic DMP-BD10
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Pass – This player does not suffer from 2-3 chroma bug.

*1.02 FW update - I am not sure what happened, but it now has CUE. I am going to try and locate a 1.0 player just to double check my original results.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from 2-3 chroma bug.


Toshiba HD-A1
ICP: This player does not have a filter to reduce the ICP artifact.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.


Samsung BD-P1000
ICP: This player does include a filter to reduce the ICP artifact. Sadly it is present on both 1080i and 1080p. If a filter is included, it should only exist for the 1080p output.
2-2: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-2 chroma bug.
2-3: Fail – This player suffers from the 2-3 chroma bug.


Deinterlacing
The PS3 does not appear to be able to output 1080p when the source is encoded as 1080i. It changes the output resolution back to 1080i while 1080i content is playing. The Panasonic is using the AVC2510 while the Samsung is using the Cortez. Neither player can deinterlace 2-2, but both support 2-3 deinterlacing.

If you have the DVDO VP50, Anthem D2 or the Marantz VP11S1, I highly recommend you use the 1080i output of these players. It will do a better job creating the 1080p image than the players will. "
The failed tests are in bold.

In terms of raw measurements, the Toshiba HD-A1 did the best. However, most should provide good quality. No tests of the HD-A2 yet.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 11:20 AM
 
The PS3 has gotten absolutely rave reviews from home theatre magazines who don't even try a game on it. They say it is the fastest, cheapest, best quality Blu-ray out there even next to the brand new Sony Blu-ray player that is $1200. The PS3 is faster and handles more disk types.

So far I can confirm that as even though I didn't see it in the PS3 specs it plays DVD+R DL disks without a hitch.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 11:32 AM
 
The guy who did the above technical assessment of the various players is Stacey Spears.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 03:15 PM
 
The new HD-DVD player is $499. The same price as the PS3.

Toshiba - HD DVD High-Definition DVD Player - HD-A2

Hopefully they are cheaper other places.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Eug
Clinically Insane
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Caught in a web of deceit.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 03:22 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
The new HD-DVD player is $499. The same price as the PS3.

Toshiba - HD DVD High-Definition DVD Player - HD-A2

Hopefully they are cheaper other places.
Like I said, it has streeted at $399 at some places, and that includes the 3 free HD DVDs from Toshiba.

And at one place it's $449 with free shipping and 2 free HD DVDs from the store, plus the additional 3 free HD DVDs from Toshiba.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Across from the wallpaper store.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 03:48 PM
 
IT DOESN"T MATTER IF THE PS3 IS SUPERIOR TO ALL OTHER PLAYERS.

As I said before perception is everything and the average guy who wants to play HD movies but doesn't care about games will not buy the PS3. Some will, sure, but not enough to matter.

SWG you keep getting hung up on why Blue Ray SHOULD win but you never address how it WILL win. Remember, the Betamax that everyone laughs about now was superior to VHS in most ways. In professional circles it took DIGITAL technology to kill it for good.

"Getting it to market first and making it affordable" goes a LONG way. Blue ray has an uphill battle that is going to be VERY tough to win.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 04:00 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
Remember, the Betamax that everyone laughs about now was superior to VHS in most ways.
http://technology.guardian.co.uk/onl...881780,00.html

"Later I found out that Betamax had owned the market, but lost it because Sony got one simple decision wrong. It chose to make smaller, neater tapes that lasted for an hour, whereas the VHS manufacturers used basically the same technology with a bulkier tape that lasted two hours."

25 gigs vs 50?


"Indeed, the main thing that didn't fit was the idea was that Betamax was "technically superior". Standing in a shop at the time, there was absolutely no visible difference in picture quality, and some reviews had found that VHS's quality was superior."

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Across from the wallpaper store.
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 04:05 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Why VHS was better than Betamax | Technology | Guardian Unlimited Technology

"Later I found out that Betamax had owned the market, but lost it because Sony got one simple decision wrong. It chose to make smaller, neater tapes that lasted for an hour, whereas the VHS manufacturers used basically the same technology with a bulkier tape that lasted two hours."

25 gigs vs 50?


"Indeed, the main thing that didn't fit was the idea was that Betamax was "technically superior". Standing in a shop at the time, there was absolutely no visible difference in picture quality, and some reviews had found that VHS's quality was superior."
Again, you don't address how the Blue Ray will come out ahead in this, only that you think they SHOULD.
Being in debt and celebrating a lower deficit is like being on a diet and celebrating the fact you gained two pounds this week instead of five.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: President Skroob's Office
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 8, 2006, 04:20 PM
 
Originally Posted by smacintush View Post
Again, you don't address how the Blue Ray will come out ahead in this, only that you think they SHOULD.
Well there is no valid points as to why HD-DVD will either other than right now it has a 6 month head start which naturally gives it a few more titles and cheaper players.

Next year we can talk on how they are doing.

"She's gone from suck to blow!"
     
Forum Regular
Join Date: Jul 2006
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2006, 11:12 AM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
The PS3 has gotten absolutely rave reviews from home theatre magazines who don't even try a game on it. They say it is the fastest, cheapest, best quality Blu-ray out there even next to the brand new Sony Blu-ray player that is $1200. The PS3 is faster and handles more disk types.

So far I can confirm that as even though I didn't see it in the PS3 specs it plays DVD+R DL disks without a hitch.
Rave reviews my ass, so many people are having problems in the PS3 irc channel on efnet that its absolutely hilarious. The PS3 is a HORRIBLE bluray player.

Late Night Consoling - Shacknews

Last night, not long after being updated last week, PlayStation 3 received a new firmware patch, bringing the machine up to version 1.30. It is available via the console's system update function as well as for download through Sony's official site. The update includes additional options to format the hard drive, a tool to backup data from flash memory cards to the hard drive, and the ability to add the Blu-ray Disc remote as a Bluetooth device. Most notably, however, are changes to how the system selects its output resolution. Now, users can check off every resolution supported by their television, rather than simply selecting the highest supported resolution. When playing a game or movie, the PS3 will then choose the highest available resolution supported both by the game or movie and the user's television according to the checklist. Unfortunately, this does not fix the major issue of 720p-only games not displaying in HD on 1080i-only HDTVs; such games, including Insomniac's Resistance: Fall of Man, still downscale to 480p on displays that do not accept a 720p signal.

The patch also introduces a new inconvenience for owners of 720p HDTVs that also accept 1080i signals. One of the patch's changes is to prioritize 1080i over 720p if both signals are available. This means that content supporting both resolutions connected to a 720p-native but 1080i-supporting HDTV will choose to send the 1080i signal, resulting in a scaled image rather than one at native resolution. This applies to much PS3 content, including the cross media bar dashboard, web browser, and various games. There is an easy workaround for affected users, which is simply to uncheck 1080i support from the resolution menu. However, this introduces another problem as the PS3's Blu-ray Disc player does not output in 720p, meaning that 720p HDTV owners must manually enable 1080i output on the PS3 before playing a Blu-ray movie, or the movie will be downscaled to 480p.

Essentially, this recent patch has provided a needed convenience for a certain group of users--1080i HDTV users--while creating a new inconvenience for another group--720p users. Sony needs to instute standards among developers that, since the PS3 lacks its own internal upscaling hardware, both 720p and 1080i must be supported by every game. Blu-ray functionality should also support both resolutions, and the resolution output menu should allow users to set their own order of priority based on their TV's resolutions and their own preferences. Insomniac has stated that it is currently working on a patch addressing various multiplayer aspects of Resistance; hopefully, it also addresses the game's resolution issues.



I also have to inform you that bluray movies are not shipping with the full uncompressed soundtrack like their hd-dvd counterparts. Superman Returns is a prime example of this, and it happens all the time.
     
Addicted to MacNN
Join Date: May 2000
Location: Santa Rosa, CA
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2006, 12:08 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Ok let me reword it non-gamer style:

$500
Fastest and best Blu-Ray player on the market
20 gig hard drive to store video's, pictures and MP3's
Bluetooth controller love it or leave it
Rip your CD's to a media centre
Watch movie trailers
Send/recieve emails
Built in web browser on a high def TV.
USB ports for keyboards future video camera and conferencing
Media card readers for your digital camera
Back up your digital camera images
Location free TV

Do i still sound like a gamer or is the IR remote worth losing all the above over?
Here's a non-gamer response: So? I can already do those things on my computer. Why would want to perform those tasks on a DVD player?

Nobody ever mentions my legendary sexual prowess.
     
Posting Junkie
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Portland, OR
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2006, 02:21 PM
 
Originally Posted by Dark Helmet View Post
Fastest and best Blu-Ray player on the market
Haven't we already addressed the PS3 is not the best Bluray player on the market?
8 Core 2.8 ghz Mac Pro/GF8800/2 23" Cinema Displays, 3.06 ghz Macbook Pro
Once you wanted revolution, now you're the institution, how's it feel to be the man?
     
Mac Enthusiast
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Right here
Status: Offline
Reply With Quote
Dec 9, 2006, 04:30 PM
 
Any hybrids? thats what im looking for
     
 
Thread Tools
Forum Links
Forum Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts
BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Top
Privacy Policy
All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:15 AM.
All contents of these forums © 1995-2015 MacNN. All rights reserved.
Branding + Design: www.gesamtbild.com
vBulletin v.3.8.8 © 2000-2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd., Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.3.2